UPSB v3
Philosophy / Pinnacle of Progress
penspinning
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Date: Thu, Sep 27 2007 22:32:35
Is it ever possible to reach to "pinnacle" of penspinning?
Will we ever be able to do "anything" with a pen?
Will penspinning eventually reach a limit where discovery drops to zero? (excluding pen modification) -
Date: Thu, Sep 27 2007 22:41:40
Doesn't seem like philosophical questions. But hey, we can debate it out.
First, you need to define "pinnacle". I would think that in order for a pinnacle, or peak, to exist, it must be seen first then compared to all other events and states of pen spinning before reaching the conclusion that a particular state is indeed a "pinnacle." Even then, you cannot say that it is permanently the topmost peak, since a good bit of spinners agree that there is much more yet to be discovered. There are tons more aspects to this particular definition, but I don't want to explore them all. Let's just say that I believe no, there is no such thing as a pinnacle, only temporary goals that we strive for. -
Date: Thu, Sep 27 2007 23:02:41
pinnacle in penspinning
*accomplished a trick/combo
*invented a trick
*made everyone use that trick from now on
*inspired a spinner(s)
*make pen spinning popular
um.. i think i got "accomplishments" mixed up with "pinnacle". -
Date: Thu, Sep 27 2007 23:34:29
Eventually someone will be able to do everything that is possible with a pen (spinning wise that is).
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Date: Fri, Sep 28 2007 01:15:53QUOTE (NDiZ @ Sep 27 2007, 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Eventually someone will be able to do everything that is possible with a pen (spinning wise that is).
How so? You can't possibly be able to do everything if you don't know about it, that would just be impossible. Like say... for example... that sonic didn't exist. If no one ever discovered sonic, would you really have someone who was able to do everything with a pen when he/she didn't know sonic? -
Date: Fri, Sep 28 2007 02:37:29
Define "pinnacle". I'm sure it's close to 'perfection' and nothing in life is every perfect, so no, I don't think we'll ever reach there. But if pen spinning keeps going and inspiring new people to come and contribute, we'll come pretty damn close. But there's always the little things like, having the pinnacle of perfection of pen mods, and combos, and all the tricks etc etc. I doubt we'll ever make it that far.
I hope people understood what I said, I read it over and it sounded funny. It was better in my head
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Date: Fri, Sep 28 2007 03:11:26
Hmm...my interpretation of pinnacle was a point in penspinning where invention of tricks/combos drops to zero, because I believe there exists a limit to what we can do with pens
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Date: Fri, Sep 28 2007 03:36:37
Then it just becomes a debate as to whether the number of discoverable tricks is in/finite.
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Date: Fri, Sep 28 2007 03:50:29QUOTE (Crzyazn @ Sep 27 2007, 08:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hmm...my interpretation of pinnacle was a point in penspinning where invention of tricks/combos drops to zero, because I believe there exists a limit to what we can do with pens
well then it'll be a pinnacle to see who can use those tricks most creatively, so on, and so forth. -
Date: Fri, Sep 28 2007 04:26:46QUOTE (Crzyazn @ Sep 27 2007, 06:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Is it ever possible to reach to "pinnacle" of penspinning?
Will we ever be able to do "anything" with a pen?
Will penspinning eventually reach a limit where discovery drops to zero? (excluding pen modification)
yes, will it happen anytime soon? no.
same thing for sciences. -
Date: Fri, Sep 28 2007 05:59:30
*disagrees with Zombo*
No it won't happen. There are simply too many things to be done for all of them to be discovered.
Won't happen with sciences either. -
Date: Fri, Sep 28 2007 06:16:11
For science, there wouldn't be an end to discovery, however, there is a common resultl, technological singularity. After that, nothing gets invented by human, but by robots.
As for pen spinning, I believe that a pinnacle exist. It is just impossible for pen tricks to be invented constantly forever. The fact that pen spinning has to follow the law of physics severely limits what it is possible. However many tricks can still be discovered, hence this 'pinnacle' cannot be achieved just yet. -
Date: Fri, Sep 28 2007 12:48:27
i've been wondering this too.
perhaps saying that 'everything' is discovered would be too extreme. it would be more of a situation where almost 'everything'(if there is such a thing) is discovered such that it is of extreme difficulty to 'create' a new trick.
maybe one or 2 new tricks appear every 10 years or so.
what i'm thinking of pinnacle, is when you can do your combos so efficiently that they almost never drop. meaning you can perform it as an entertainment on stage, with cameras zoomed in on you sitting at a table and maybe with one or two backup pens incase you drop.
i'm wondering, if after, say, ten years of practice, is this possible? or is Eriror already doing this, just not on stage?
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Date: Sat, Sep 29 2007 10:08:50
I think everything will be discovered someday, the only question is how fast and smooth can you be?
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Date: Mon, Oct 1 2007 15:42:46
I don't think this is possible, since penspinning is not a think which you can master all parts of. Atleast I highly doubt anyone can reach the pinnacle in all aspects of it. How ones penspining is depends a lot on style, and "mastering" a style, and even less all styles, is just nothing I can imagine.
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Date: Mon, Oct 1 2007 17:43:49QUOTE (newkid @ Sep 27 2007, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>QUOTE ("NDiZ")Eventually someone will be able to do everything that is possible with a pen (spinning wise that is).
How so? You can't possibly be able to do everything if you don't know about it, that would just be impossible. Like say... for example... that sonic didn't exist. If no one ever discovered sonic, would you really have someone who was able to do everything with a pen when he/she didn't know sonic?
It's not about you knowing whether or not this "person" has reached the pinnacle of pen spinning, it's whether or not he/she has. If the person can't do a Sonic then he/she wouldn't have reached the pinnacle, although it would appear to you or I that it would have been reached because we are ignorant of this one trick... I'm speaking theoretically there will be a point where everything possibile with a pen has been reached, where we may "think" there is something possible left undiscovered and spend our life times trying to find out, but there really isn't... We won't be aware of it when this point is reached but some all-knowing being will. For the 5-6 years (roughly) PS has been around, we've come a far way, what about in 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 quadrillion years?
A pinnacle is indeed possible!!! -
Date: Tue, Oct 2 2007 03:12:36
I would prefer this 'pinnacle' not to refer to being able to perform all the tricks. While theoretically possible, it is just a impossibility in the real world. Just look at other sports/manipulative arts as examples. While it is possible to be very good (ie the best), it is just impractical to expect the person to be able to do everything possible.
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Date: Tue, Oct 2 2007 17:06:00
Anything is possible with time... Except eating your own head
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Date: Wed, Oct 3 2007 11:14:03
Well that was just a retarded comment.
Even though you can achieve much as long as you get time to achieve it, you can't achieve everything. Let's go back to the sports comparison TayYH89 did. One can run 100 meters very fast, but if you would want to reach the pinnacle of running fast, you would need to run those 100 meters in no time. -
Date: Wed, Oct 3 2007 19:55:56
Very true, I didn't mean everything literally, that's why I added the "retarded comment". But with infinite amount of time, reaching a pinnacle in very many things is achievable, and I believe PS is one of them. Running a hundred metres in no time is not possible, a pinnacle must be possible, or the pinnacle of running would be doing an infinite number of metres in no time, which is just rediculous. Of course like I said earlier the pinnacle of certain things, like running, could not be determined by us since we do not possess the knowledge of the skill level which lies just before impossible, but that point of skill does exist, and one day may be reached.
Give it 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 999 quintillion years!
Still don't think that someone could reach the highest possible skill level of Pen Spinning? -
Date: Wed, Oct 3 2007 20:17:04
I'm starting to doubt, but still no.
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Date: Wed, Oct 3 2007 20:18:46
Let's take TA for example. TA is an easy trick, and is probably one of the easiest cont tricks. A perfect cont TA would be one that never drops, and to do this you would have to do Cont TA xinfinity, which is impossible, so perfection, in skill, is unreachable.
To do everything with a pen, so that no new tricks are invented? Tough question. However, other things that have been around for thousands of years still have new ideas found out for them. There is not a limitless amount of things you can do with a pen, but I think there's enough to new things are still being invented until we are wiped out. -
Date: Thu, Oct 4 2007 02:36:36
that's obvious mats.
But the question also take into factor real limitations.
The limitation for cont TA x infinity is time.
Also this is just a single trick repeated many times, the question ask will we discover all there is to PS. -
Date: Thu, Oct 4 2007 16:58:31
Main Entry: pinnacle
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: top
Synonyms: acme, ape, apex, apogee, belfry, climax, cone, crest, crown, culmination, eminence, greatest, height, meridian, obelisk, peak, pyramid, spire, steeple, summit, tops, tower, vertex, zenith -
Date: Fri, Oct 5 2007 03:28:01QUOTE (Sfsr @ Oct 3 2007, 07:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Even though you can achieve much as long as you get time to achieve it, you can't achieve everything. Let's go back to the sports comparison TayYH89 did. One can run 100 meters very fast, but if you would want to reach the pinnacle of running fast, you would need to run those 100 meters in no time.
I'm sorry, but you are being very unrealistic by suggesting the possibility of running 100m in no time. This is physically impossible. Being the world record holder, I believe Powell is at the pinnacle of the 100m event. -
Date: Fri, Oct 5 2007 14:24:38
Ofcourse you can't run 100m in no time, but is the current record really the pinnacle of running fast? There could even be someone who can run faster, just that it is not known. Or someone might break that record next year.
About what NDiZ said~QUOTE (NDiZ)Give it 999 999 999... etc
More would be discovered about penspinning, or the human civilization would be extinct, but since we are restricted by what we are, human, we would not be able to live so long and it would not matter, since every person would need to learn everything about PS all over again. -
Date: Fri, Oct 5 2007 14:41:26
even if its possible to acheive the highest level of psing..no one will. who has time to spin their pen all their life until they acheive the best. you would have to learn all the tricks possible, the smoothness, speed, and all the possible linkage. it'd take way to long for a human to acheive.
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Date: Fri, Oct 5 2007 15:16:06
If the pinnacle is the highest possible skill-level of something, then ofcourse it has to be possible. But for a human to acieve with the laws of physics, no.
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Date: Mon, Oct 29 2007 20:38:00
i dont think there is a "pinnacle" in penspinning because you could know all the tricks and mods but u still couldnt make the pen float around yr head and balance a pig on itself all the way to mars and help it colonise and get to the centre of the sun........
EDIT: actually it could... but you get my picture -
Date: Mon, Oct 29 2007 22:19:51
The pinnacle will never be reached because eventually pen spinning is going to reach outer space and when that happens the possibilities really will be endless
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Date: Mon, Nov 5 2007 21:12:47
I don't think we'll reach a pinnacle, I mean, imagine if someone could do every imaginable trick and then they could also do simultaneous 3p1h tricks. Then they could do it with strings and all manner of other things. They could still get better. I mean imagine juggling three pens, but instead of catching normally you go right into a fingerpass. It could go anywhere you want. The only thing that I believe may happen is that tricks will become more specialized so that you will have your own sort of branch of spinning that you practice.
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Date: Mon, Nov 5 2007 22:29:22QUOTE (Sfsr @ Oct 5 2007, 06:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>About what NDiZ said~
More would be discovered about penspinning, or the human civilization would be extinct, but since we are restricted by what we are, human, we would not be able to live so long and it would not matter, since every person would need to learn everything about PS all over again.
Very true, to an extent... Spinners who start now learn way faster than spinners starting when UPSBv2 began. Once Eriror dies after 30 years of evolving PS (just an example), person a starts spinning after Eriror is gone and will learn what Eriror learned in at least half the time since it is already out there, and spend the remaining time further evolving PS. After person a's time is up, person b will learn even more... This will continue until the point where the maximum that can be learned in one lifetime has, and that, my friend, will be the age where someone reaches a pinnacle. Also, we are ignoring the fact that eventually a cure of aging will be discovered. After all, it's only a matter of somehow stopping our genes from ending their growth period.
@Most of you (especially Arno): What you guys are basically saying is that in order to reach a pinnacle you have to be able to do EVERYTHING, whether it be possible or impossible. In this case, a pinnacle can never be reached with anything. We must only take into account everything that is possible, that can be achieved, or this topic is retardedly pointless. And everything possible can be reached eventually, with the right time and the right people.
So screw you guys, I'm goin home. -
Date: Mon, Dec 17 2007 07:25:05
no---nobody will ever reach the pinnacle of pen spinning in the real world.
why: because the tricks you can learn ARE limitless (e.g. revolutions combined with aerials) and nobody would ever bother to learn them all in the physical world... -
Date: Thu, Dec 20 2007 16:22:59
its not about someone bothering to learn them all or not.. its just saying if its possible or not
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Date: Sun, Jan 20 2008 20:58:58
I think this is an odd question that's hard to limit to reasonable boundaries. For example, if the pinnacle of pen spinning would be 'every trick that's possible to do is known', we still have to limit 'all tricks' with something. 2p1h is in the group, but fingerpass while doing a backflip could be out of the group. Also what could be out are 100 pens one-handedly, but where do you draw the line? 10 pens? Maybe 5, no-one surely can do that. Or maybe just 4 since 5 is stupid since it's too hard.
What about pen juggling? Kind of becomes juggling if we don't draw the line there.. Stalls (like armpit stall or whatever)? Kinda resembles freestyle footbag and not pen spinning. What about toe tricks? Or face tricks? Like nosearound or tonguearound.
Maybe tricks should be considered pen spinning tricks if they spin on the hand, without leaving contact with the hand. Oh, wait.. We already have aerials. Where can you draw the line?