UPSB v3
General Discussion / Shoeman6's BIG Idea...
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Date: Thu, Sep 11 2008 03:33:51
Okay so heres the story, today whilst studying spanish i had the the greatest umm... realization? theres a word for it but I don't know it....
It might just be the result of to much to drink, but here it is...
I made it with paint, and it took ferever, so if anything give me credit fer trying...
It's basically a new way to write a combo down or tricks etc. I tried to make it as easy and usuable for every trick as I could... tell me watcha think, even if I EPIC FAIl...
Mod's may feel inclined to close this thread because of it's uselessness.
Anyways, I thought it would be neat if you could "sightread" pen spinning, like an instrument or something and I came up with a 6 Line staff and a bunch of symbols that let you describe a combo.
I think I got everything but if I missed anythign tell me, because I personally am going to use this to write down combos I'm trying to learn, the letters just aren't that helpful =\
okay, so here it is.... *cringes*
THe yellow square is jsut more visible, like highliter, or jsut a square 0 - o , if any body has suggestions that'd help for my own personal use... the only problem I cans ee is if you wanted to do a simple combo such as an infinity it'd take forever to write, but you cud just use the Letter annotation currently used and put an x5 or the ammount of times in the correct finger space... I dunno, maybe it's just like reinventing the wheel and making it way to complex > _ <
But yah.. that was my great idea... btw PAINT SUCKS FER STRAIGHT LINES!....
I hope the text isn't to small to read
Spoiler:
Upon reflection this was a bad idea....
Another edit the pic is way small...
EDIT: I'm working on a new way and set of symbols which will let the staff be less cluttered and hybrids easier to read and write =] -
Date: Thu, Sep 11 2008 03:37:55
it's like music -
Date: Thu, Sep 11 2008 03:39:55
That was the idea at the time but now I just realized in order for it to work it would ahve to be a lot more complicated... maybe it wouldnt be back breaking to write if I didn't do it on paint > - <
I might try to figure out a way how to get it to work, fer now I've got spanish to study > - <...
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Date: Thu, Sep 11 2008 03:44:45
decent idea, but i fail to see how that's easier to read than normal breakdown. You can easily sight-read normal breakdown and perform as you go...
a visual breakdown might only be needed when we deal with 2hxp, a project currently in the works in the RD.
this gives you a sense of the relative timing between tricks executed on both hands. (in other words you can have tricks overlapping and simulatneous on both hands) -
Date: Thu, Sep 11 2008 03:50:54
I find writtin notation vague sometimes, and you can't make the same connection with words as symbols on a staff, for example, If I was reading music, and it was letters, shore I could play the peice, but if it was written on a staff it would be coinciding with my mind, like the first space I would know, was my thrid figner on the key board or something. I was going for that kind of thing, meh..... oh well... maybe I shud rename it shoeman6's big flop xD, nah i'm still gonna use it though
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Date: Thu, Sep 11 2008 03:59:40
pen spinning is not music...
in music you're reading notes, notes are always the same. sure you have modifier (dynamics, staccato, etc.) but the bulk of the information is the note itself.
in pen spinning you're reading tricks, and in your notation what replaces "notes" are the fingers used for the tricks. this is NOT the bulk of the information. the bulk of the information becomes the modifiers because that is what defines the trick.
musical notation would only work in PS if PS only had 1 trick that you could play in 5 different spots (fingers). then it's like a note. -
Date: Thu, Sep 11 2008 04:02:10QUOTE (Zombo @ Sep 10 2008, 10:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>pen spinning is not music...
in music you're reading notes, notes are always the same. sure you have modifier (dynamics, staccato, etc.) but the bulk of the information is the note itself.
in pen spinning you're reading tricks, and in your notation what replaces "notes" are the fingers used for the tricks. this is NOT the bulk of the information. the bulk of the information becomes the modifiers because that is what defines the trick.
musical notation would only work in PS if PS only had 1 trick that you could play in 5 different spots (fingers). then it's like a note.
yep, ya gotta point, I wish I was smart like you =], So you COULD theoreticlly I suppose, make the bars tricks instead, and use fingers in the spaces and lines, along with other trick modifiers? =] that'd work but that'd be a hella lota bars... oh well... = | .... <--- drool
EDIT: Actually that wouldn't be to bad =| maybe 7 lines? and with combos with just dots and lines? that'd be nice too... hmmmm and look a lot neater.. -
Date: Thu, Sep 11 2008 04:18:07
this would begin to get way too cluttery and hard to read...
imagine notating some of the hybrids that exist?
and most of these tricks/hybrids are hard to understand and read WHILST spinning... never mind at the same speed as some ppl spin. -
Date: Thu, Sep 11 2008 04:20:00
you can, the problem is that its completely arbritary which line is what trick.
in music, it's clear that the higher the note, the higher the pitch. -
Date: Thu, Sep 11 2008 04:23:29QUOTE (Zombo @ Sep 10 2008, 11:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>you can, the problem is that its completely arbritary which line is what trick.
in music, it's clear that the higher the note, the higher the pitch.
I see you're point =] oh well I gave it a valiant try =D!
Related tricks could be next to each other, and the other non related could be lower, spins involving the pen turning could be higher... > - M
@ stevie boy, yup your right, that's what I thought after looking at it again, hybrids wouldn't be that hard, but it would look very messy and all over the place.... -
Date: Thu, Sep 11 2008 04:41:23
very nice idea, but bottom line is regular notation is easier to read
but very nice, really -
Date: Thu, Sep 11 2008 04:43:51
Yeh I kinda realized that AS I was posting the thing > -
Maybe Ill have another hooge shoeman6 idea...
That fails.. xD -
Date: Thu, Sep 11 2008 06:44:24
Yeah, It was a nice idea, but regular notations are easier to read.
Off Topic: If you hold down shift while drawing a line on paint, It can only be drawn as a straight line.
Edit: spelling -
Date: Thu, Sep 11 2008 06:53:57
HAHA hold down shit!
Probably need to work on the idea shoeman6, but nice concept. -
Date: Thu, Sep 11 2008 10:29:31QUOTE (iamk34n3 @ Sep 11 2008, 01:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yeah, It was a nice idea, but regular notations are easier to read.
Off Topic: If you hold down shift while drawing a line on paint, It can only be drawn as a straight line.
Edit: spelling
I knew that and I did that> _ < doesnt help much .... = | lmao, thanx anyways =] -
Date: Thu, Sep 11 2008 15:17:28
definitely a cool idea. But I can't say reading hybrid notation is any easier
It's kind of hard to have an octave trick
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Date: Thu, Sep 11 2008 17:10:40QUOTE (shoeman6 @ Sep 10 2008, 11:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Okay so heres the story, today whilst studying spanish i had the the greatest umm... realization?
Epiphany.
I think this is a pretty cool idea. While it is initially more difficult to read than text, once you get used to the symbols I can see it becoming as easy to read. This actually reminds me of regular shorthand in English or whatever language, which is also written using horizontal lines as a guide. An obvious advantage is that this format is more condensed, and can be written down faster by hand. Plus, it'd be interesting to see what breakdowns look like pictorially. It doesn't necessarily have to replace text breakdowns but can supplement them. If you're interested in the idea, I think you should continue working on it because it looks like it has potential.
You'll need to refine it a bit though. For example, maybe you could use 4 lines instead of 5 for the finger slots: T-1, 1-2, 2-3, 3-4. Finger markers and arrows are not really needed. For example, sonic 34-12 can be represented by a squiggly line beginning at 3-4 and ending at 1-2. Similarly, sonic 23-12 could be a squiggly line from 2-3 to 1-2. For hybrids, just join two "trick" strokes together. A trick done multiple times can be denoted by putting brackets around the stroke and stating how many times the trick is repeated; e.g. ( ~ ) 3x. You'll have to figure out other simplifications and how to notate more complicated tricks though. -
Date: Thu, Sep 11 2008 20:22:48
Yup that's what I meant =D!
I liked the figner markers because it showed you WHERE the pen was , that way you wouldn't get lost and have to guess at what the author wants you to do for the trick =\ although seeing it today I'm kinda like meh..... xD
EDIT:
That's a great idea 0 -O I'll work on that and post a new pic =D! see how far I can get into it before it caves in x]
EDIT: Ill work on it at Violin class > - <
EDIT: Okay, so taking your idea, the new sonic squigally will have 2 humps and one dent, ( allowing hybrid righting easier ) the first hump represents while the pen is still between the first two fingers, the next dent, is when the pen is between to fingers with the finger inbetween, the last hump represents the pen in the other fingers,
USING THIS, a charge, could be represented by a single hump, and something like a sonic clip, would just be a sonic, but with more dents =]
A asterik before a trick represents a twistedor bust, or inverse maybe , and a reverse would be shown as a < symbol before the trick,
Ill make a new pic later ands ee how it works... =]
still working on it > - <
