UPSB v3
Philosophy / Pen spinning, 'Fake'?
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Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 04:37:36
Is pen spinning really a true form of manipulation, or is it just an illusion?
I've been bothered about this since I started.
The trick that (basically) all psing is based on is the charge. And all the charge
really is doing is pushing the pen back and forth. What I'm saying is, doesn't
it count as magic instead of manipulation because if it is viewed from the wrong
angle it doesn't look very impressive? When people go "ooh" and "ah" do
we deserve those reactions or are we just making it appear that we are more impressive
than we actually are? -
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 04:39:32
Is juggling, Gymnastics, and stuff like that real, or fake?... I say a combination of both... LIFE itself is an illusion of time and space....
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Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 04:43:18
I suppose pen spinning does have a few illusions in it (sonics, i-sonics), but that's what's so great about penspinning, there's so many different types of tricks and so many new things you can do with it.
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Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 06:07:29
uh? all PSing is based on charge? your basic assumption is just wrong
it's not magic, we're not trying to fool anyone unless in very specific situations (iSonic) -
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 06:11:27
= | wel maybe the illusion is that the pen is spinning with great speed, and fluidity, but it is so it isnt realy an illiusion...
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Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 16:00:06
What I'm saying is not that the pen dissapears like an iSonic but it appears
that it is doing full revolutions when it is only wobbling back and forth. -
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 16:38:19
You are basing your idea on one trick, the Charge. Yes, it is a fundamental trick, and it does branch into many hybrids, but it is only one trick. Not all tricks are based around the charge. But for some that are, a charge does change the trick. For example, take twisted sonic. It's basically a charge combined with pass. But otherwise, if there was no Charge, then it would just be a pass. Charge is basically a way of showing more motion, making it more entertaining as well.
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Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 17:24:43
If you removed every instance of a charge, a sonic, and everything involving them in
a combo, I think it would be rather plain to look at. It would just be a bunch of thumbarounds,
topspins, and passes. -
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 17:29:26
i have no idea what you're saying
the pen is not wobbling in a sonic, that would be a very poor sonic. it actually has rotation, but the rotation is orthogonal to the pen.
how is that related to magic, it does have rotation and u can see it from every angle -
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 17:40:24
It looks like its flipping from one angle but oscillating from another.
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Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 19:34:01
no it doesn't
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Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 22:13:28
Isonic is a really lame "magic trick" because you can pretty much obviosuily see where the pen is, it jsut loks cool...
You could incorporate pen spinning into magic if youw anted and then it would be ilusion, but pen spinnings as real as it gets = | unless youre talkinga bout like fake tricks, that are easier than the real trick but look about the same... -
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 01:05:54
I'm really not talking about the isonic here so much as the charge.
Quote, from pentrix (about the charge):QUOTEThe angles from which this trick must be viewed make it not the best trick. -
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 01:09:19
Most stuff from pentrix is really old.
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Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 04:27:43
Oh, has the charge changed between now and when that was written?
I didn't know about that, guess I should go learn the new charge...
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Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 04:28:00
This thread is weird....PS is not magic from anyone's point of view.
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Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 05:20:08
Personally, I think that there is no such thing as 'Fake' or 'Magic'. All the things we do in pen spinning is based on just visual perception, and the aesthetic quality of the trick coupled with the difficulty, are the only things that awe the audience.
There is absolutely no use questioning the authenticity of pen spinning, otherwise, the veracity of everything else under the sky must also be questioned.
Also, I would like to point out that charge is not the Last Universal Common Ancestor to all the tricks in pen spinning. The thumbaround, for example, is completely independent of the charge, unless combined so with hybrids, combinations, etc. -
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 05:55:14
yea... this is kinda retarded
what illusions? we never said HEY LOOK, THE PEN'S MOVING IN A CIRCLE I SWEAR IT'S NOT A CONIC ROTATION
we're just doing visually appealing trick
and shoeman, i believe the magic isonic is reffering to bonkura's isonic -
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 10:49:57QUOTE (Outsmash @ Sep 15 2008, 04:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>This thread is weird....PS is not magic from anyone's point of view.
Oh really? I was called a pen magician last month. He must think its magic. Lols. -
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 10:52:35QUOTE (Spidey @ Sep 15 2008, 05:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Oh really? I was called a pen magician last month. He must think its magic. Lols.
I dont think they actually meant you were doing "magic"... -
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 11:03:33QUOTE (Outsmash @ Sep 15 2008, 10:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I dont think they actually meant you were doing "magic"...
Well he did call me a Pen Magician, notice the magician part. Its not exactly magic but in his eyes it was. -
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 14:01:08QUOTE (ZRandom @ Sep 14 2008, 10:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Personally, I think that there is no such thing as 'Fake' or 'Magic'. All the things we do in pen spinning is based on just visual perception, and the aesthetic quality of the trick coupled with the difficulty, are the only things that awe the audience.
There is absolutely no use questioning the authenticity of pen spinning, otherwise, the veracity of everything else under the sky must also be questioned.
Also, I would like to point out that charge is not the Last Universal Common Ancestor to all the tricks in pen spinning. The thumbaround, for example, is completely independent of the charge, unless combined so with hybrids, combinations, etc.
Thank you, you're the only one who gave a satisfying answer. -
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 14:28:41QUOTE (Spidey @ Sep 15 2008, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Well he did call me a Pen Magician, notice the magician part. Its not exactly magic but in his eyes it was.
But he knew you werent doing any sort of magic but yea..people tend to call it magic because they would'nt have seen something like that before.. -
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 15:59:46
My friend watched some collabs and he kept saying it was fake and the pen's being tied to a string blah blah blah..
And then i showed him the real thing and he shut up. -
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 18:50:14
shadowclad, I meant that what Kam wrote there isn't really true because the charge is visually appealing from many different angles. I was confused as to why you said it appeared to move side to side...
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Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 21:39:42QUOTE (Outsmash @ Sep 16 2008, 02:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>But he knew you werent doing any sort of magic but yea..people tend to call it magic because they would'nt have seen something like that before..
If it was like that he wouldn't have called it magic. He thinks its magic because he can't pen spin.
I gave him a go with my pen, he failed and thought it was magic.
So the main point of that was, pen spinning was magic in his eyes. -
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 23:21:22QUOTE (Spidey @ Sep 15 2008, 04:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Well he did call me a Pen Magician, notice the magician part. Its not exactly magic but in his eyes it was.
i believe he meant to say "I'm retarded" -
Date: Fri, Sep 19 2008 20:14:12
Magician can be used as a word for someone who's good at something. You might call David Beckham a Football (or Soccer if you want >.< ) magician.
Pen Spinning isn't just an illusion. It takes time to learn, and it isn't all really easy, you know that for yourself.
And even if it's an illusion, why do you care
What does David Copperfield do, what did Houdini? Right, they did illusions. It's called entertainment.