UPSB v3
Board Comments / Show Off Your Pens
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Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 04:10:40
ok so there was a pretty heated debate in the shoutbox going on because Eso wanted to clear the crap from the show off your pens thread
should this happen?
Pro: no more crap in soyp, just nice pictures to look at. Plus no more spamming soyp for post counts
Con: No feedback on pens or comments on improvements, similar pens, etc. Also, 'special pages' like 100, 200, 300, etc, which many modders prepare special mods for, will be thrown off, and no longer easily accessible
please add the the pros and cons list, and vote -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 04:12:19
What is deemed off topic though? I have found out good info about mods, especially as a beginner.
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Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 04:12:41
So basicly, Eso decided to clean up the Show Off Your Pens thread because Element and Xero complained to him that there's too many 'useless' posts.
If Eso deletes some posts then our pages will get screwed up, our posts will be moved back and our pages 100, 200, 300 and etc. will no longer be anything meaningful to us but will be a regular topic page.
Having something to go back to and look at is a wonderful choice for us because as you might know, UPSB craves about posting on pages 100, 200 and etc.
Since Eso could care less about what we think and Element keeps telling me that it's useless to fight and this is inevitable, I knew I had to make this poll.
Please cast your vote and tell us what you think about this. -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 04:16:08
yea i dont really know, my main problem with it is deleting ANY old posts will result in throwing off the special pages
keeping tabs on new posts, im cool with that =/ -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 04:16:14
seems like a weak reason to eliminate spam to me... sounds a lot like the whole "I don't want to move to UPSB because I'll lose my post count of UCPSB" kind of thing or the "We have to restart Most Replies all over again".
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Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 04:17:49
wait wtf there's 2 threads now
-merged -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 04:19:38
im not sure what you're saying zombo
for or against?
and.gif)
i called it in the SB i was making it... -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 04:20:50
eliminating spam is always good
now comes the question of determining what constitutes spam -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 04:24:55
but still remains the issue of the special pages
im all for removing future spam, but the old stuff, it'll throw everything off
i guess not that many people care about that stuff =/ -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 04:27:26
To me, it just seems the special pages such as 100, 200, ... are the basis of Dimachka's argument. I can understand that.
And yet at the same time, there are many others that don't care about the special pages and simply want the off topic conversations that go on in the thread to go away.
That's why I didn't touch the thread yet. I just can't please everybody, and at the same time, no one appreciates the kind of work the mods do. I'll discuss this with the entire moderating team about this thread and others like it.
While we're at it, what about the SOYI thread? -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 04:29:37
like i said special pages is a really weak argument:
1) it's not even the same for everybody since anyboody can change their "posts per page" setting
2) it has no pen spinning significance whatsoever
3) ppl had to give up their post count and all the special pages on Most Replies on UCPSB and it's not that big a deal. -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 04:30:39
SOYI, i wouldnt mind
hmm well...
the people who want to clean SOYP... if they dont care about the special pages, how much time do they honestly spend browsing old pages, so much that they absolutely cannot tolerate some comments?
why not just ignore that and simply keep tabs on new posts? -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 04:40:29
we discussed internally the issue of cleaning the pen thread way back in July, i think there was also a thread in the comment section about it.
the consensus amongs mods at the time seemed to be to disable post count for that thread and let ppl talk freely like now
however, i have received reports of ppl who said the thread is "unreadable" due to the sheer number of off-topic/spam posts,
eliminating those discussions would kill a lot of the activity of the thread, which or may not be a good thing for ppl who like the thread (as it is).
personally I see the thread as a "Most Replies with pictures of pens". the problem now is that it's not in a the OT section, therefore must/should be moderated, and that there is also ppl who want a thread with JUST pictures and zero spam at all. -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 04:40:44
I just want to state that since there are clearly 2 sides of this issue, either party please do not start flaming or slandering the other, whatever the final decision may be.
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Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 05:05:26
I don't think that the SOYI clean up is needed, because it's not nearly as big nor will it get as big as the SOYP thread.
And portions of that are requests for inserts to be made. -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 05:06:30
I'd actually like that in the show off your pens it would mostly be pictures and feedback, maybe questions on your pen? but less spam would be nice, there are a few pages which are more spam than pictures lol i'm sure of it.
and special pages just change how many posts are displayed per page and you'll get more or less that way you are happy. -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 05:07:11
i WOULD support the no post count option, but it seems unfair to the people who are actually posting pictures...
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Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 05:19:55
All I have to say is a LOAD OF SHIT.
I will take Eso's side on here. Moderators..what do they do? They moderate the forum.
What is Moderating?
Websters-Online Dictionary
Main Entry:
2mod·er·ate Listen to the pronunciation of 2moderate
Pronunciation:
\ˈmä-dÉ™-ËŒrÄt\
Function:
verb
Inflected Form(s):
mod·er·at·ed; mod·er·at·ing
Date:
15th century
transitive verb 1 : to lessen the intensity or extremeness of
Now that you know what it is, now apply it.
Show Off Your Pens Thread, has an EXTREME of spam comments, random Nice! and Cool. not being aimed towards a particular pen.
In reality there is only 200pages MAX of actual pictures. and ACTUAL questions pertaining to that pen. Now clearing out 300 pages of posts not pertaining to the pen itself does not seem like much of a loss now does it?
This is where the conflict arises. People who care about tradition (the posting of new pens/comments on every 100 increment page) is it really necessary? Post-junkies who just post so they can get a custom title are lametards...deal with it.)
Moderators should have power to clean up Threads without asking, there's a reason they're called MODERATORS. They do what's best for the forum, enough said.
Now what I recommend is that this useless bickering about who's right end. Just let the guy do his damn job. Jesus..you guys are sensitive. -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 05:25:01
"Con: No feedback on pens or comments on improvements, similar pens, etc. "
this is wrong, spam would only be extremely off-topic comments and one-liners that are useless, not questions relating to mods or requests for "tutorializing" a mod' -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 05:37:44
alright
really my only issue is the special pages
if no ones cares about that, which it seems they dont, well ok then =/ -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 06:01:58
I was going to do that months ago but decided to hold off because i realized that pens posted on page 100/200/300/400 would get shifted. However, since the topic has been brought up again i will mention that rarely does anyone ever go back to an old picture to look at the feedback they've received.
IMO i think all the old posts that are not pictures should be deleted. That would include everything before page 450. I see nothing wrong with allowing comments for current pictures but once everyone has finished "ooh'ing and ahh'ing" with those pictures the comments should be deleted to reduce clutter etc.
The one bad thing is that page 100/200/300/etc will kind of lose significance due to the constant shifting of posts but it's a small price to pay to reduce the MASS spamming people do in that thread. -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 06:19:17
but i think if comments are moderated instantly, those shifts wont happen, because once we make say 500, everything will already be clean
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Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 06:23:39
...but i dont think comments should be moderated immediately. They should remain for a little while (eg 2 weeks) before being deleted.
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Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 06:29:12QUOTE (K4S @ Sep 17 2008, 02:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The one bad thing is that page 100/200/300/etc will kind of lose significance due to the constant shifting of posts but it's a small price to pay to reduce the MASS spamming people do in that thread.
I personally think this is a good solution. Before, I had the idea of doing a mass cleaning every once in a while so that way the old comments will get pushed back and everyone would have had a chance to read them before it's all old news. But if I take that route, everybody will start complaining about the special pages.
This is off-topic, but I personally believe the whole "get special post on page" is a Most Replies type of mindset. People tend to spam to reach that goal. I would know because I've done it back in UCPSB. But whatever.
I'll let the poll decide.
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Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 06:40:08
i dont think it's like 'get post on this page'
it's more like the top guns (k4s, tek) saying 'here's something special for this page' -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 08:10:02
I think it's cool to see people post special pens on some pages...but then...on the other hand...
Why not aim to make every picture/pen special?
I don't mean to start flaming all the bad pictures/pens, but if everyone aimed to post their best, that would only mean our modding standards would get higher
which can only be a good thing, right?
therefore...I voted 'yes'.
I say clean the spam, leave the nice pictures and comments...then give a pat on the back to those who worked so hard to post a special pen on the "special" pages. Their pens won't lose their uniqueness ^^ -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 08:15:06
^+1
and the comments should be left for like 2 weeks minimum b4
they get cleaned like k4s said -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 10:30:52
+99999999 to iMatt
Yes, it should be all cleaned up. I think clean up after 2 weeks sounds good. If people are getting pissed off at the special pages. can't you mods somehow move all the post in the special pages back to that page after you cleaned it up?
And people should get warning if they spam up the thread so much. i just stopped reading that thread after like page 400 because i just couldn't keep up. each day, there would be like 4 pages. -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 12:21:05
I'd much rather be able to scroll through some old pages and only see pens, rather than some pages without pens at all. K4S' suggestion is the best I've heard so far, I say go with it.
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Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 17:15:45
hehe, i think this is one endless discussion
i remember when thehoink counted pictures in that thread (of course there were lot more "spam" posts than posts with pics) =)
i think that should be left for pics and "useful comments" only. useful comments being about mod/pen parts, insert... not thoseretardedspam "nice mod", "great mod", "super mod", "nice", "great", ":thumb:"... posts
sure, its great to get input on your mod, but seriously... those posts look like they are written by bot -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 02:17:39
i said no, but i hate how evry1 praises one person *TEK* for photoshop.
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Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 04:38:38QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ Sep 17 2008, 12:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Pro: no more crap in soyp, just nice pictures to look at. Plus no more spamming soyp for post counts
Con: No feedback on pens or comments on improvements, similar pens, etc. Also, 'special pages' like 100, 200, 300, etc, which many modders prepare special mods for, will be thrown off, and no longer easily accessible
This is rediculous. What is the con,... just nice pictures to look at? Is leaving these posts here really worth spending the time to clean up 500 fucking pages. You know what, no it's not worth it. Leave it the way it is. How is this forum going to benefit or gain anything from cleaning Show off your pens. It's just unneccesary work. I know I just skip over those comments that people are either so arrogant or dumb enough to leave and just look at the pictures and related posts. Don't misinterpret me, I'm all for having this topic closely moderated, but from now on. Do not clean up the thread.
And by the way, Eso you need to have a little more credit towards the non-moderators. Just because some of us havn't reached your status doesn't mean we don't have respect.QUOTE (Eso @ Sep 17 2008, 12:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>no one appreciates the kind of work the mods do.
You won't believe how much this pisses me off.
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Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 04:52:04
I don't think moderators should be allowed to vote in this poll. I know it might sound silly but put it this way, this poll is to see what the community thinks about this.
The moderators already discussed this and agreed to clean it up. >>; -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 04:56:13QUOTE (TRoc @ Sep 17 2008, 09:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>This is rediculous. What is the con,... just nice pictures to look at? Is leaving these posts here really worth spending the time to clean up 500 fucking pages. You know what, no it's not worth it. Leave it the way it is. How is this forum going to benefit or gain anything from cleaning Show off your pens. It's just unneccesary work. I know I just skip over those comments that people are either so arrogant or dumb enough to leave and just look at the pictures and related posts. Don't misinterpret me, I'm all for having this topic closely moderated, but from now on. Do not clean up the thread.
And by the way, Eso you need to have a little more credit towards the non-moderators. Just because some of us havn't reached your status doesn't mean we don't have respect.
You won't believe how much this pisses me off.
are you bashing my list or something? you just proposed exactly what i did... to clean it up from now on oO
sorry im just a little confused at the beginning, but you seem to agree with me -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 05:00:06
Sorry if I misunderstood, if you are saying clean it up from now on, then yes, I agree with you.
QUOTE (TRoc @ Sep 18 2008, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>This is rediculous. What is theconpro,... just nice pictures to look at?
Sorry I wrote con when I meant pro. -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 05:01:44
ah ok that makes sense then
and yea i just.... i just feel it's very unneccessary to go clean the old stuff... idk.. -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 05:38:47QUOTE (Aries @ Sep 17 2008, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i said no, but i hate how evry1 praises one person *TEK* for photoshop.
COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT TO THE TOPIC.
If you have issues with Tek fanboys and his photoshop work, take it up with those people, has nothing to do with the thread.
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Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 05:49:33QUOTE (TRoc @ Sep 18 2008, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>And by the way, Eso you need to have a little more credit towards the non-moderators. Just because some of us havn't reached your status doesn't mean we don't have respect.
Don't know where you're getting that notion. Seems like some of y'all think I'm some sort of big-headed mod. I already stated that if I truly did not have respect for the regular members and their opinions, I would've cleaned up the thread a while ago. How about giving me some credit here?QUOTE (TRoc)You won't believe how much this pisses me off.
My comment or what I was talking about? If you're referring to my comment, then I am speaking honestly. The rules clearly state that all posts outside the Off Topic section will not be tolerated. The point was to clean up any and all threads that have spam. I was just trying to do that, but instead I get this reaction. Right now, I'm inclined to believe that my work as a moderator is not appreciated.
Believe what you want, but attacking my character? Is that really called for?
And I did not vote in this poll. I nulled to see the results only.
I want to clean up only the posts from page 500 and onward. Seeing that we're close to page 500, I wouldn't mind for the goal to be passed then we start cleaning from there. -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 06:00:21
This is not a double post, this goes to what eso is saying of
QUOTEBelieve what you want, but attacking my character? Is that really called for?
Honestly, you people really need to think through the issue here.
What is the conflict.
Moderator doing his assigned job vs. People want to keep "special" comments
What is gained loss in both end results
Moderator:
Free Space
Less amounts of Spam
Easier to surf Pen posts
SOYP comment posters:
100/200/300/400/500 page showing off BEST MODS and absurd amounts of comments
3-4 Pages of added space due to majority of comments DAILY on SOYP Thread
Ability to reminisce of one's comments?
I cannot be the only one who can see that the moderators JOB WHICH HE WAS CHOSEN TO DUE seems like the logical answer. -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 07:41:07QUOTE (Eso @ Sep 17 2008, 10:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I want to clean up only the posts from page 500 and onward. Seeing that we're close to page 500, I wouldn't mind for the goal to be passed then we start cleaning from there.
if you're only going to clean from 500 onward, then i have absolutely no problem, seeing as the special pages will be preserved
and yes, the attacking of eso is quite uncalled for -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 09:56:04
Imo i think the best thing to do would be to make a "Show off your pens V2". When we hit 500. Just cut down on off topic posts, if its that big of a problem but personal i would like feedback to my pens
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Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 10:17:06QUOTE (KurtAB @ Sep 18 2008, 04:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Imo i think the best thing to do would be to make a "Show off your pens V2". When we hit 500. Just cut down on off topic posts, if its that big of a problem but personal i would like feedback to my pens
You will still receive feedback on your pens though. However, the difference would be that after a certain period of time (example: 2 weeks), the comments that are now 2 weeks old will be removed. It's pretty rare that anyone ever goes back to look at the feedback they got from old pictures. -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 10:38:20
Ohh but the pictures stay there? Well if that's the case i think that is a good idea.
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Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 11:43:16
I would love to see the old posts od comments and no pictures be removed, just after page 500 lol. I've been saving mods and not posting them just to show them on page 500.
It would be nice to be able to scroll through pages od pictures rather than pages of all comments/spam (which there are a lot of). -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 21:51:43
What would we lose from deleting all the old posts that don't have pictures?
so you can easily look @ pages 100/200/300 etc?
If you guys REALLY think that those pages and pictures are special... then save them on your computer or photobucket...
especially since it is only a minor FEW chosen pages that people seem to deem/find special...
other wise why not delete them...
more than HALF of those pages are unnoticed comments = MAJOR waste of bandwidth.
Everyone please stop crying about losing "Special" pages...
You can even save the entire web page as it is now if you want it....
its just a number... the past is the past and soforth..
that bandwidth could be more efficiently used in many different ways.
The Pros of cleaning it up outweigh the cons ten-fold.
Just my personal opinion... -
Date: Sat, Sep 20 2008 00:27:53
some of us just cant go saving a million random pictures on our computers
bandwidth? since when do we worry about posts taking up bandwidth? wtf is most replies, then -
Date: Sat, Sep 20 2008 04:55:31QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ Sep 19 2008, 07:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>some of us just cant go saving a million random pictures on our computers
bandwidth? since when do we worry about posts taking up bandwidth? wtf is most replies, then
Firstly... you dont have to save all the pictures....
the picture will still be there.. only the posts will be deleted..
therefore the pictures will just be in a different place..
and if only the 100/200 etc. pages matter that'll only be like 70 pictures if you TRUELY wanted every picture on those pages.
and if theyre random pictures....why would you even want them?
and saving webpages is even easier...
and seriously... will it be that bad if stuff just gets moved around?
i HIGHLY doubt any one would have looked back soon enough to notice for a while... -
Date: Sat, Sep 20 2008 05:22:24
you completely ignored the bandwidth part, eliminating your arguement as to why it should be cleaned. Now you're just argueing why it wouldnt be that bad if it was cleared
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Date: Sat, Sep 20 2008 09:50:27
I really don't understand the bandwidth part either, but as for special pages, if all "spammy" posts get cleared then you'll have pen-pictures all the way to scroll through, no need to go to special pages for that. As it is now, you see 2-3 pictures per page, and a full page of pictures on the special ones. Why not have full pages of pictures all through?
Anyway, doesn't matter to me. Clear the old posts, or start clearing after 500, in the way K4S said. -
Date: Sat, Sep 20 2008 16:05:10QUOTE (K4S @ Sep 18 2008, 05:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>You will still receive feedback on your pens though. However, the difference would be that after a certain period of time (example: 2 weeks), the comments that are now 2 weeks old will be removed. It's pretty rare that anyone ever goes back to look at the feedback they got from old pictures.
qft i agree with this 100% but make it a bigger/longer amount of time like 1-2 months...
double post. sorry. but i need to say this while i remember it.
i like k4s idea, just make a new thread, but make a rule topic about tht thread. and we cant have it tht there is no possible text comments, because that wouldnt be fair.
but maybe the mods could make up a schedule for mods to moniter the soyp thread (old or new, if there is a new one)
but i do realize that not all mods can be on at a specific time, so dont yell at me for that. but, idk. that might just make it better
also like K4S idea like have all text comments be deleted after a special time. maybe even after every special page have the old ones deleted? like have them up to (eg 100 on new thread).... when 101 pages are made all the text comments on 1-100 are deleted. same thing with 200, when 201 is made, 101-200 are deleted, so on and so forth.... just an idea
~It's called "using the edit button"~
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Date: Sat, Sep 20 2008 21:42:15
You all do realize that if someone changes the "Number of posts to show for each topic page", the 100, 200, etc... pages are meaningless to them, right? For example: Show Off Your Pens only has 246 pages for me. All of your reserved-posts and page-specific posts are completely wrong to me.
Let's cut out the crap and leave the useful stuff. I've already been doing this randomly over the months anyway, deleting posts with dead images and off-topic conversations. -
Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 00:47:51
Ok
I dont like the cleaning in SOYP
Its really bad looking now that when u look for page 100 posts, they are on page like 20 now...... Its hard to find pens if u saw them before and cant find them now
I seriously think we shouldve just started a SOYP V2 thread instead of cleaning........... but thats just IMO
I know this wont count for anything because the cleaning is already in progress, but o well. i thought i should post my opinion
any comments would be appreciated -
Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 00:55:26
i dont really mind it
lol lookin back at the first few pages brings back memories
.... -
Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 00:57:58
Yeah, I'm happy with it so far. I've actually thought it's been easier to find pens, cause I didn't memorize the pages they were on, and this way I don't have to look through as many posts.
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Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 01:01:57
well im not. and rorix thanks for the merge
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Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 01:40:11
I don't like it being cleaned. Except for all the flaming and stuff like-Thats the dumbest thing ever. If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything. Only negative feedback and random spam should be deleted. All good feedback and reasons to keep new mods that someone made.
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Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 02:05:58QUOTE (-8 Ball- @ Sep 30 2008, 07:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Only negative feedback and random spam should be deleted.
Trying to create the nice image of UPSB where everything is perfect, huh?
Better shadow? Negative feedback != flaming -
Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 02:09:00
Oh god you're right, he wants to get rid of flaming and spam, that monster!
good feedback includes constructive critisism. Way to quote him out of context. -
Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 02:15:22QUOTE (Blank @ Sep 30 2008, 08:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ok
I dont like the cleaning in SOYP
Its really bad looking now that when u look for page 100 posts, they are on page like 20 now...... Its hard to find pens if u saw them before and cant find them now
I seriously think we shouldve just started a SOYP V2 thread instead of cleaning........... but thats just IMO
I know this wont count for anything because the cleaning is already in progress, but o well. i thought i should post my opinion
any comments would be appreciated
why dont you just...save the images of your favourite pens on your computer? any image can't stay on the internet forever (broken links etc...) so better to save them.
we delete ALL non-image posts, doesn't matter if negative or positive. Also new comments stay up for 1 month or so, which should give plenty of time for the poster to read them!