UPSB v3
Pen Modifications / Proper Pen Naming/Modification Approval
Come on Seriously?
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Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 05:34:08
This has been rather bothersome to me lately and I think it deserves a discussion.
Pen-Modification names. I'm getting very tired of people trying to come up with complex/"uber sweet" cool names
That the pen itself just seems silly and well tacky.
People do have the right to name their pens, but can we not be reasonable about it?
Examples:
BicX FGZT
BG VBall Duo
SP² EX
just a few recent examples.
I propose to come up with some naming guidelines so that names aren't just a mash of random letters and numbers.
I'm very tired of having to deal with this, I remember a number of months ago I had to deal with the same thing.
LET ME CLARIFY: A PEN MOD NAMING GUIDE-LINE, NOT REQUIRED like MANDATED, but a simple Guideline that can be followed to possibly reduce confusing names.
The other part I wanted to cover was, ALL OF THESE repeat mods that never get approved of from the community and are released solely on basis of other people doing it. I find it an annoyance and on top of that it just causes further flaming for the newcomers.
They feel repulsed thinking we're all assholes, but they don't bother to read the Pen-Modifcation How-to Tutorial guidelines I wrote up.
Because of that I think modifications should be approved before released. It's really not that much work.
If the mod is a repeat mod, a simple message saying this mod has been done before is needed. For those who will say, " Oh, but we put so much work into it, it should be posted because I worked so long on it." You should do your research,
In the end it will do nothing but good for the board. The judging of the mod isn't based on whether its good or not, that'd be bias.
It'd be based on a basic criteria
A.) Has this mod been made before or just a simple variation upon another?
B.) Are the Pen stats/faqs stated correctly?
C.) Are there pictures?
D.) Is The wording clearly stated, (if not submit back for clarification editing)
things like that, Hell I'd even willing proof these if it means less meaningless sloppy un-researched tutorials.
Thoughts/Comments? -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 05:41:38
sometimes i think its nice to have personal names
other times it's just retarded -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 05:44:31
I think that naming without some standard naming system is okay...as long as it's not some crazy thing like "look at my O9u84ut230t mod" or this is my "[spinner's name] mod"
If they want to come up with a clever name for their mod, then i think that's perfectly fine. If that mod becomes well known, then remembering it's name shouldn't be a problem. If it doesn't, well, nobody'll care for what it's name is anyway.
Ex. Zaper mod by Zaazu
As for approving the mod before it's posted... I think that's a good idea. Proofreading them isn't even really that necessary... in a glance, you should be able to tell if it's worthy of being posted or not. Only issue with this is... how do you control people from not posting mod tutorials and have them PMed to you or some moderator to be approved first???
But yes...iMatt..i completely agree with you. A ton of newcomers have been posting useless tutorials and it's getting quite annoying to explain to each one of them that their mod isn't good/their tutorial has no pics and a vague text explanation/their mod has been created already/etc... -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 05:45:21
Yep.. like what JC said.
Get an official UPSB pen-mod moderator for all the new pen mods to go through before getting released.
I don't really mind the mod naming.
Also, the mod moderator can choose whether to release the tut or not and if it's too vague, he will have second thought about releasing it and that kinda stuff. -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 05:50:11QUOTE (Glamouraz @ Sep 18 2008, 01:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Get an official UPSB pen-mod moderator for all the new pen mods to go through before getting released.
Well...that's kinda what K4S is... but it's not like the system can detect, This is a pen mod tutorial and not just some pen modification thread that doesn't contain a pen mod tutorail whatsoever, and will be sent to K4S for approval
And if nobody reads the rules like almost everyone else...it's not like they'd PM it to a mod for approval anyway... -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 05:51:57
I also feel there is a need for a moderator that concentrates solely on the concerns that you have stated here.
You (iMatt), for example, would be more than enough to take that position.
Such moderators would handle things like
-naming
-proofreading
-actually posting the tutorial after completing the proofreading, credit still goes to creator of the modification
All pen modification tutorials that are not posted by the moderator(s) would be closed
It would be a lot of work but again its just a thought -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 05:56:13
Or.. how about this..
You have to go to a moderator to release a tut? -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 06:01:10QUOTE (-JC- @ Sep 18 2008, 12:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>As for approving the mod before it's posted... I think that's a good idea. Proofreading them isn't even really that necessary... in a glance, you should be able to tell if it's worthy of being posted or not.
It's entirely necessary, otherwise people who are posting from a non-english standpoint will more than likely refer to using native phrases that are directly translated in a sloppy mannor. That and who likes a poorly made tutorial?QUOTEOnly issue with this is... how do you control people from not posting mod tutorials and have them PMed to you or some moderator to be approved first???
You have posts reviewed/checked before they can be posted as New Topic. Quite simple
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Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 06:16:28QUOTE (iMatt @ Sep 18 2008, 02:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It's entirely necessary, otherwise people who are posting from a non-english standpoint will more than likely refer to using native phrases that are directly translated in a sloppy mannor. That and who likes a poorly made tutorial?
meh, i suppose...but imo, i just think that someone who has a good mod will make a good tutorial...but i guess this may nto be the case all the time...QUOTE (iMatt @ Sep 18 2008, 02:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>You have posts reviewed/checked before they can be posted as New Topic. Quite simple
oh...so all the topics that would be posted would have to be checked first? =\? eh...that's annoying to those who aren't looking to post a mod tut and are just looking for a quick answer---but then again, we must make sacrifices i guess.... -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 06:17:48
I take it back. Now that I tihnk about it. I voted that it wasn't necassary to show a mod pre-posting a tut. but now that I think about it, I think it should be mandatory.
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Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 06:22:42QUOTE (-JC- @ Sep 18 2008, 01:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>meh, i suppose...but imo, i just think that someone who has a good mod will make a good tutorial...but i guess this may nto be the case all the time...
oh...so all the topics that would be posted would have to be checked first? =\? eh...that's annoying to those who aren't looking to post a mod tut and are just looking for a quick answer---but then again, we must make sacrifices i guess....
Well it wouldn't be hard to sort. It'd be as simple as a Title guideline
Title: NewPenMod[Tutorial}
Summary: By Name (date)
that'd be entirely different than
Kt making help or what not. -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 17:12:45
I voted for no, and yes to mods reviewing it first. But, it is helpful with those silly names. That way you know not to click the link. Comparing Dr. KT to VGgball duo or w/e it is.
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Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 17:35:59
Moderator control is a good idea. I'm fed up of 30cm mods and people who discovered how to put 2 caps on a pen...
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Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 18:49:39
yea but we would need more mods cuz right now its mostly only k4s watching this thread
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Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 20:27:12
wao dont be like kam with all that copyright stuff...think about what IS pen modding??? its modding a pen/s to fit ur needs...as shitty as some mods look, it fits that persons needs...seriously dont make such a big deal over it
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Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 20:29:49QUOTE (Boshi @ Sep 18 2008, 04:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>wao dont be like kam with all that copyright stuff...think about what IS pen modding??? its modding a pen/s to fit ur needs...as shitty as some mods look, it fits that persons needs...seriously dont make such a big deal over it
true... but as for which mods should be posted.... it's a different story
people can make a mod that's 30 cm long and weighs 50 grams, and i wouldn't care....but it's such spam to see a tutorial for a mod like that cause nobody would make it.... -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 20:35:35
Yes, and yes thanks.
For the naming, they will only be guidelines. No need to follow them if you don't want. -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 21:32:09QUOTE (Sfsr @ Sep 18 2008, 03:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yes, and yes thanks.
For the naming, they will only be guidelines. No need to follow them if you don't want.
Guidlines would be good..
In the end the general community will come say whatever name it wants...
its not com.ssa or com.Ssa any more...
neither is Dr.CT really used anymore...
and a certain style of Dr.KT are named Bonky KT...
most people don't even say DR. KT.... they just call it a KT
In the end... complex names WON'T be accepted by the penspinning community because they are just that-- Too Complicated.
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Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 21:41:17
So building off what Stevieboy said, i think 2 syllable names are easiest to remember and sound the catchiest...
I hate the letters and numbers, even though i named recent mod GB Vortex (but it's not like that's complicated, and it makes sense...), but please don't make something completely unmemorable.
I think a mandatory quick inspection by a mod should be necessary before you can post a tut. -
Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 22:31:10
For once i agree with iMatt too many F***ing Shit/Crap Mods aka garbage
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Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 22:52:31
Not talking about names, but new mod tutorials could have a poll asking whether it's a new mod or not and the public can decide the fate of said tutorial
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Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 23:09:48
If you have some crappy super long name for your mod then it probably not worth posting, so no on the name guide lines
You already kno my position on modification approval, definite yes.
If we can get SOME kind of system to filter new pen mods then that would be great -
Date: Fri, Sep 19 2008 14:13:05
its very simple actually
you simply have to make a subsection called Tutorials
then ppl post tutorials as usual, but refrain from flaming if its a noob mod because it will be accepted to post noob mods tutorials/
then mods either move it to the Tutorials or leave it or maybe evgen close it.
its impossible to do mod approval on tutorials only, you can only do for all topics in this section.
another way is to make the section Tutorials mod approval only, and ppl post their tuts there, which are then reviewed, and any tutorials posted outside of the subsection are locked. -
Date: Fri, Sep 19 2008 14:17:41QUOTE (Zombo @ Sep 19 2008, 09:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>its very simple actually
you simply have to make a subsection called Tutorials
then ppl post tutorials as usual, but refrain from flaming if its a noob mod because it will be accepted to post noob mods tutorials/
then mods either move it to the Tutorials or leave it or maybe evgen close it.
its impossible to do mod approval on tutorials only, you can only do for all topics in this section.
another way is to make the section Tutorials mod approval only, and ppl post their tuts there, which are then reviewed, and any tutorials posted outside of the subsection are locked.
That's kind of what I had in mind. If you wouldn't mind doing that, that would be awesome. -
Date: Fri, Sep 19 2008 23:21:36QUOTE (iMatt @ Sep 19 2008, 07:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>That's kind of what I had in mind. If you wouldn't mind doing that, that would be awesome.
i second that -
Date: Sat, Sep 20 2008 11:28:28
That'll be cool. I still don't agree that there should be guideline for mod names.
I mean.. for example..
if your guideline says that the name of the mod must include the name of at least 2 of the pens used if you used 2 or more pens and you start having names like bic sailors for example. Or maybe even RSVP comssa.. and what if i wanna make a mod that uses an RSVP and a comssa and call it "hurricane mod"? (lol.. i know.. stupid name examples.)
The RSVP MX would be called the HGGRSVP lol.. -
Date: Sat, Sep 20 2008 12:20:55
oh my god...
Its called an mx because its a single cap mod (or asymmetrical
).
I think that the idea that a new section purely for new tutorials is an awesome idea and the current section should be used for questions regarding existing mods/ tips on modding / technical stuff.
I think that a recommended naming guideline for mods is also a good idea. It would at least give a vague idea at the sort of pens it requires. Additionally, I think that terms like mx and vortex are like modifiers. -
Date: Sat, Sep 20 2008 16:06:30
MX stands for MAXIMUM, and it has been implemented into many mods, MX doesn't mean a single side mod.
What I was hoping to eliminate was just a bunch of character strings like "HGGSE-nexUS"
I think Tek got the idea right doing the ³ or ² for the MX².
Say a pen uses a G3, impact RT, 2 HGG's, and signo tip.
The most likely name variations would be G3RT-SH², or G3 Impact MX etc etc.
My way isn't to COMPLETELY eliminate people's creativeness, but make it easier to figure out what the pen is
without actually having to click.
Lets just use the Impact MX for example. It's very simple because it doesn't use too many pen parts.
What would be added afterwards if somebody modified it further, made it retractable.
That's where the dash shows the type of pen it is. So impact MX retractable would become
Impact MX-R
Mechanical pencil: Impact MX-MP
My idea for the naming system is just very subtle things like above^ -
Date: Sat, Sep 20 2008 20:54:47
The creator should name the mod, if people don't like the name, the person can choose another name or ask for help. Pretty simple. People need to come up with more interesting names rather than just stacking on more and more letters. I guess pen mod names just are not at all important to me since there are so many more choices for pen mods than currently for tricks. Come up with an interesting name that someone may actually want to remember, then name variations accordingly, like what iMatt said. Blah.
Instead of creating a new thread/section for a pen mod, then asking whether it exists, we should use the Show Off thread. Post your mod and give a week for people to see it and comment, if no one can come up with a previously-existing mod, make a thread for it and see what happens.
@iMatt: Naming a pen mod using "²" was a DarkArcher invention. -
Date: Sat, Sep 20 2008 21:55:09QUOTE (sketching @ Sep 20 2008, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>@iMatt: Naming a pen mod using "²" was a DarkArcher invention.
I was merely just using Tek as an example, never said he was the CREATOR. No harm done.
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Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 06:19:35
IMO a better idea, if you want still let ppl have their fun naming creativately, is to create a dual name system, kinda like what they do in biology (scientific name and casual name). It would also be similar to the "hybrid notation"/hybrid naming system.
Have a convention that can systemitically pump out a "tag"/hashcode/serial code/id based on certain attributes of the mod, while leaving the choice up to the creator to give it whatever name they want, however unpopular the name becomes. Of course there could always be proposal to modify the casual name, but the convention should never change.
Now where it gets real exciting is that if the systematic naming is done right, no two unique mods would have the same id. So when you're making a mod, you could compute your tag and check if it exists already. Furthermore, there could be a likeness comparator that would check what mods are similar to another mod. For instance, this could be done by computing the longest common substring between the tags of two mods, much like in gene matching.
If correct, it could automatically prove that a mod is too similar to another one, therefore be derivative and could be basis for being considered a "variation".
Also, if its done correctly in such a way that certain properties of the tag are meaningful. For instance: it is divded into X sections. Another example is that it is prefix based. In other words, two mods are more and more similar if their share a longer prefix. Example:
1. A3FEG43-5
2. A5GFE53-4
3. A3FEH17-4
4. ZFDK039-5
3 is more similar to 1 than 2, but all 3 belong to the same general class A. On the other hand, 4 is totally different because its first class letter is Z.
Furthermore, a prefix based naming scheme could easily generate branching tree structures, which would allow us to easily navigate and categorize the pens. For instance the first letter/code section could mean single sided or double sided, second section is weight, etc... which means the mod tree becomes a decision flow which allows the user to answer successive questions to find the perfect pen matching his/her specifications. All this is easily generated if such naming scheme exist.
There could be other ways of doing it of course... but at first sight, a prefix-based system is what comes to mind... a lot of research possibilibites here.... this has potential I think. -
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 07:25:42QUOTE (Zombo @ Sep 21 2008, 01:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>IMO a better idea, if you want still let ppl have their fun naming creativately, is to create a dual name system, kinda like what they do in biology (scientific name and casual name). It would also be similar to the "hybrid notation"/hybrid naming system.
Have a convention that can systemitically pump out a "tag"/hashcode/serial code/id based on certain attributes of the mod, while leaving the choice up to the creator to give it whatever name they want, however unpopular the name becomes. Of course there could always be proposal to modify the casual name, but the convention should never change.
Now where it gets real exciting is that if the systematic naming is done right, no two unique mods would have the same id. So when you're making a mod, you could compute your tag and check if it exists already. Furthermore, there could be a likeness comparator that would check what mods are similar to another mod. For instance, this could be done by computing the longest common substring between the tags of two mods, much like in gene matching.
If correct, it could automatically prove that a mod is too similar to another one, therefore be derivative and could be basis for being considered a "variation".
Also, if its done correctly in such a way that certain properties of the tag are meaningful. For instance: it is divded into X sections. Another example is that it is prefix based. In other words, two mods are more and more similar if their share a longer prefix. Example:
1. A3FEG43-5
2. A5GFE53-4
3. A3FEH17-4
4. ZFDK039-5
3 is more similar to 1 than 2, but all 3 belong to the same general class A. On the other hand, 4 is totally different because its first class letter is Z.
Furthermore, a prefix based naming scheme could easily generate branching tree structures, which would allow us to easily navigate and categorize the pens. For instance the first letter/code section could mean single sided or double sided, second section is weight, etc... which means the mod tree becomes a decision flow which allows the user to answer successive questions to find the perfect pen matching his/her specifications. All this is easily generated if such naming scheme exist.
There could be other ways of doing it of course... but at first sight, a prefix-based system is what comes to mind... a lot of research possibilibites here.... this has potential I think.
That's very cool. Past what I had in mind, but I do have some knowledge of what your talking about. Mod matching kind of system. That would be very very cool. -
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 07:45:30
I think that the Mod category system that Zombo came up with would be really nice. But I don't see how effective it would really be. Cause it would require everyone to learn the system. And with that many variables that you posted it seems pretty complex.
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Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 07:59:26QUOTE (matthewk206 @ Sep 21 2008, 02:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think that the Mod category system that Zombo came up with would be really nice. But I don't see how effective it would really be. Cause it would require everyone to learn the system. And with that many variables that you posted it seems pretty complex.
It doesnt mean anyone would have to learn the system. It's just how we could categorically organize the mods, then based on certain answers, a certain result is produced. It's a very basic concept -
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 14:23:43
That system would really solve a number of problems!
If all the existing mods be input into a database, the issue of recreating a mod would be solved.
Thus, if a habit to run a tag through the program to match a new mod caught on, less people would be flamed for creating tutorials of already existing mods.
Excellent idea! -
Date: Sun, Sep 21 2008 15:04:43QUOTE (matthewk206 @ Sep 21 2008, 03:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think that the Mod category system that Zombo came up with would be really nice. But I don't see how effective it would really be. Cause it would require everyone to learn the system. And with that many variables that you posted it seems pretty complex.
well for starters, even if you don't know what the code mean, you should always get the sense that the more similar two strings are, the more similar the mods their represent. so that's already very useful. plus if we use a prefix-based system, you can just look for matching prefix.
now if you want to know what it actually means, you need to learn the code. So we could either make it fairly legible, or have a program do the translation for you. then you wouldnt need to know it.
the program would ask the necessary questino about ur mod and compute the tag. conversely, you give it a tag and it tells u the mod.
also like matt said, you could find a mod based on questions, so u dont need to learn anything at all about the code, its just like using categories. -
Date: Fri, Sep 26 2008 08:38:32QUOTE (sketching @ Sep 21 2008, 04:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The creator should name the mod, if people don't like the name, the person can choose another name or ask for help. Pretty simple. People need to come up with more interesting names rather than just stacking on more and more letters. I guess pen mod names just are not at all important to me since there are so many more choices for pen mods than currently for tricks. Come up with an interesting name that someone may actually want to remember, then name variations accordingly, like what iMatt said. Blah.
Instead of creating a new thread/section for a pen mod, then asking whether it exists, we should use the Show Off thread. Post your mod and give a week for people to see it and comment, if no one can come up with a previously-existing mod, make a thread for it and see what happens.
@iMatt: Naming a pen mod using "²" was a DarkArcher invention.
I totally agree with what sketching said about the creativity to mod names.
Also, a variation to the mod, like what imatt said can be named by adding prefixes to the name.
If you want to standardize naming, that would make it hard for people to unleash their creativity.. after all, they created the mod. But I think that naming mods after the pens/parts that it uses makes it hard to remember.. imagine.. the Impact MX called a nail-n-washer impact RSVP.. or something like that..
Also, if we had fixed naming guidelines, wouldn't we have to state whether the mod is symetrical or asymmetrical? So with one look, people can know whether the mod is for them or not depending on their preferrence. That'll make it a little hard to follow the guidelines so I would suggest we do without the naming guidelines as long as we don't have mod names too complicated that involves all the pens used. -
Date: Thu, Oct 16 2008 00:33:25
i agree with sketching. but why not just have two names, ones formal and one is more casual that you would say to other friends.
For example, lets compare this with a trick. the sonic is what the trick is CALLED but sonic's notation, 34-12, is what it IS. And don't get all annoying about 34-12 doesn't describe HOW the pen moves, this is just an example.
What i'm getting at is call the pen by the creative name and stick it in the title box for a tut, but in the description box put the formal name