UPSB v3
Philosophy / Naming Gives Incentive to Learn?
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Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 03:41:41
I was thinking about this recently: Does naming combos give spinners an incentive or a goal to learn? It seems that I get lots of questions on YouTube on how to do certain named combos, even if the naming is archaic, like Rising Fans, Corkscrew, etc.
This may be going on a tangent, but people also ask me if certain things they do have a name already and they want to give it a name. It seems that giving names to a sequence of tricks is giving them a sense of... accomplishment and that they will be "recognized" for creating this sequence. And after being recognized, it will give people an incentive to learn that particular combo.
Thoughts on this? -
Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 03:56:34
No. I don't believe combos should be named,
Many people give their combos names, but there would just be so many names they wouldn't mean anything.
Rising fans, Is a basic combo, like a sonic rise, except with a clip.
A bak fall, which is named, but only because it is a simple and popular combo which people do a lot.
I personally don't know the person who created the bak fall combo, or the sonic rise combo, I would hate to see peoples NAMES in combos....
The only combos I believe should be named are the rises, the falls, the harmonics, infinities, and other small combos like a double charge, and they shouldn't be used to gain recognition.
If people wan't to call a combo something themselves that's fine, but when you are trying to communicate the combo to someone to many combos would make figuring out how to do written combos nearly impossible, with huge lists of combos, it would take the meaning and pride out of having something you've created if anyone could just do a thumb arround and an inverse sonic, naming it the Shoeman6 Arround 5.... -
Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 04:29:55
I think that the named combos like K4LC or double charge, do have a bit more incentive to learn them. Not because they have names, but because they're really popular combos, popular enough to have names. So I think that it's not really so much the fact that it has a name, but the fact that it's ABLE to have a name.
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Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 04:36:43QUOTE (matthewk206 @ Sep 30 2008, 11:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think that the named combos like K4LC or double charge, do have a bit more incentive to learn them. Not because they have names, but because they're really popular combos, popular enough to have names. So I think that it's not really so much the fact that it has a name, but the fact that it's ABLE to have a name.
No, I think it causes people NOT to want to learn them, I've never learned K4LC and don't plan to... There poplular and everyone will know how to do them, I think a unique combo for myself is the best, naming combos is like restricting the combo into one trick... If you understand what I mean... -
Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 07:18:34QUOTE (shoeman6 @ Oct 1 2008, 05:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>No, I think it causes people NOT to want to learn them, I've never learned K4LC and don't plan to... There poplular and everyone will know how to do them, I think a unique combo for myself is the best, naming combos is like restricting the combo into one trick... If you understand what I mean...
I do actually. What your saying DOES make a lot of sense if you look at it correctly. The infinity is almost like 2 tricks in itself but things that actually ARE more than one trick could be like that. Sorry if I confused anyone which would probably be 99.9999999999999999999999999% of you... (The other 0.0000000000000000000000001% being me...)
But in a sense, people may want to learn popular combos to fit in. Or maybe it's just because they may look cool. Or something MORE obvious is that they are easy and names help to remember what they are called when they try to find help on You Tube or something. You couldn't call a combo ''The pen spinning trick where you do a charge to a sonic to an infinity'' or whatever. (I know that's probably not possible but you get the point) -
Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 07:25:44
ROFL. i agree on shoeman by far. combos should not have names unless its something thats like special such as the rises, falls, harmonics, infinities and simple things. combos that are extremely long to tell what it is is too much trouble. imagine people trying to remember the names of all the tricks, their effin brains will explode and then the trick list of everyones. 1000, mostly combos of people naming them and thats not fair on the moderators and others helping noob spinners what trick to do and how do u do the combo. how you expect the moderators to tell them how to do the combo when its basically other combos joined to together which need further explaining. and wiki will die from it too. too much crap on it. and the people who started pen spinning and they went on wiki after leaning the fundementals. they found 1000 tricks which were supposely combos out of other combos and the noobs just go ' oh f*** this. too many to do, this is a waste of time '. i mean the noobs probly quit this. this is what people do and just making it too complicated is just too far and too much work goes into it.
in short too many named combos = brains exploding, moderators quiting, noobs go wft? im not doing this, and the fate of pen spinning goes away -
Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 13:41:51
I believe that combos should only be given a name when it's known and recognized by the entire pen spinning community.
Will edit my post later to make it more reasonable. -
Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 14:35:30
This isn't about if it's right to name combos or not though, this is about if it helps with learning. When you're new to penspinning you want to discover things fast. Having combos with names is a way to do so. I mean, what sounds better; being able do Sonic, Twisted Sonic and Sonic ~Â Twisted Sonic, or being able to do Sonic, Twisted Sonic and Demon's Sonic? Naming them also gives you purpose, I believe. If the names are kept or not doesn't really matter, but I wouldn't discourage new penspinners to come up with individual names for combos and trick combinations.
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Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 22:00:11
Well for the sake of ease of communication people shouldn't make there own names...
I could see people making names up for combos if they were descreptive of the trick aka (kams four loop combo) But I don't see how having LOTS of combos with tons of names would cause new pen spinners to want to learn more, it may just be overwhelming and fustrating...
Plus having a combo that you've created having a name wouldn't seem so important any more and it wouldn't be as exciting. taking any drive whatsover from new spinners even if they DO make there own combos and name them. -
Date: Thu, Oct 2 2008 02:18:26
i think it has a mixed effect
i think yes, it definitely makes more people learn them
but... after awhile, it becomes overused and people are actually driven away
thats why i never learned the bakfall
shoeman6, hes not asking whether we should, he's just asking if it has that effect, which i definitely think it does.
it's kinda like how people are more alert of hurricanes when they're given names -
Date: Thu, Oct 2 2008 04:07:06
Hmmm...My opinion on this is that yes, naming does give incentive to learn a trick/combo/hybrid/whatever because if it sounds interesting, that person is likely to want to learn it.
Months and months and months ago, when all I knew were thumbaround, charge, fingerpass, twisted sonic, I was looking for a way to expand my trick repertoire. I searched on Youtube and came across Eso's tutorials. (Great job on them Eso!
) I was browsing Eso's Youtube videos and I decided to learn the more interesting sounding ones first (infinity, figure 8, sonic, FL TA, FL TA Rev, etc.)
That's basically what I think. As far as naming combos goes, I think that the well know ones should have names. -
Date: Thu, Oct 2 2008 04:09:04
But if any small storm in the sea were given a name just to make shore people were more prepared all the time people wouldn't really care about the names ;D
I don't believe people would be recognized, the pen spinning community would probably ignore a combo NAME from a new spinner.
Spinners should try to come up with new concepts or ways to spin, a name doesn't realy do anything if no one uses it... and I doubt everybody would use a name for an uncommon combo that some new pen spinner jsut comes up with.
THere are some combos that could use names though, like Thumb flap charge to FL rev Ta or bak to fl rev ta... -
Date: Thu, Oct 2 2008 04:22:52QUOTE (shoeman6 @ Oct 1 2008, 09:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>But if any small storm in the sea were given a name just to make shore people were more prepared all the time people wouldn't really care about the names ;D
Scientists don't name small storms, but scientists do name major storms like hurricanes.
What I'm saying here is that well known/important combos should be names, not small combos like Backaround 12-T1>Thumbaround T1-12>Twisted Sonic Reverse 12-23. Combos like Kam's 4 Loop combo, Bakfall, etc. do have a name. -
Date: Thu, Oct 2 2008 04:25:57QUOTE (j147l @ Oct 1 2008, 11:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Scientists don't name small storms, but scientists do name major storms like hurricanes.
What I'm saying here is that well known/important combos should be names, not small combos like Backaround 12-T1>Thumbaround T1-12>Twisted Sonic Reverse 12-23. Combos like Kam's 4 Loop combo, Bakfall, etc. do have a name.
I mean sure it would make new spinners excited, but it wouldn't really mean anything and it could give them a false since of elite-ness which happens a lot with new pen spinners... -
Date: Thu, Oct 2 2008 04:28:54
records have proven that people were more aware of named hurricanes than unnamed ones. That's why they name all of them now.
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Date: Thu, Oct 2 2008 04:33:39
Good lord, there's so many tangents you could make a spoke wheel with this...
Back to the topic... I think the fact that something has a NAME makes people think "oh it has a name so it must be important. I must learn more!"
Also, when something looks cool, newer spinners ask if it has a name, or if a particular combo they done has a name. I think it's because it's "unique" enough to warrant a name.
I wonder if this means that humans feel the need to name every thing around them... -
Date: Thu, Oct 2 2008 04:35:06QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ Oct 1 2008, 11:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>records have proven that people were more aware of named hurricanes than unnamed ones. That's why they name all of them now.
Okay my hurricane thing was a horrible fail I shudn't talk about things I don't know about , Thanx eso ;D
but yah, I know If I began, and I had a combo named after me, I would have been excited, but it would probably ahve slowed my learning and progress, Id probably just practice my combo only, and in the end wouldn't ever develop any more tricks or more complex combos...
@ Eso.
They do have names though...
What would be an example of a unique combo? and if someone asks you what it is you could jsut tell them it's a combination of one trick with another =]? It might cause them to want to learn new tricks to widen the variety of combonations they can link together if you explain that the cool thing there seeing is really built up of smaller tricks. -
Date: Thu, Oct 2 2008 09:34:10
Kam's 4 Loop Combo isn't descriptive to the tricks used at all, though?
Anyway, I'm not saying the names should be spread, used, or that anyone else should remember them, I just think that it should be considered OK if a new penspinner posts about a new combo he has made, and names it. Instead of instant flaming, a moderator correcting them and telling them there's no need to name combos, and eventually a lock.
They're new, they want to learn and they're doing the best they can. Let them have some fun, it might motivate them to keep going instead of getting stuck in the same as everyone else.
shoeman6, I don't think your reasoning makes any sense.
Eso, I think it's both having some combos with names, to keep people motivated and think it's important to learn, and to allow them to name as they want, so that they don't stop experimenting. When you're learning a named combo, you're learning something new. When you're combining two tricks you already know, you're not doing anything new. At least I think that's how I felt 2 years back...
Humans do have the need to categorize and sort everything around them out, which includes giving everything names. Just look at Aristotle and Carl Linnaeus (Carl von Linné). -
Date: Fri, Oct 3 2008 06:09:37QUOTE (shoeman6 @ Oct 1 2008, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Okay my hurricane thing was a horrible fail I shudn't talk about things I don't know about , Thanx eso ;D
but yah, I know If I began, and I had a combo named after me, I would have been excited, but it would probably ahve slowed my learning and progress, Id probably just practice my combo only, and in the end wouldn't ever develop any more tricks or more complex combos...
@ Eso.
They do have names though...
What would be an example of a unique combo? and if someone asks you what it is you could jsut tell them it's a combination of one trick with another =]? It might cause them to want to learn new tricks to widen the variety of combonations they can link together if you explain that the cool thing there seeing is really built up of smaller tricks.
In all of these posts You've failed to answer the ACTUAL QUESTION.... srsly...
I believe that it DOES help and guide beginners into learning, mostly because these are popular and interesting tricks, as well as sounding very appealing in the process. If someone who is newer to psing were to look on youtube... and see the title named as the breakdown, or the combo name,,,,, which do you think they would choose?
Obviously the named combo.