UPSB v3
Advanced Tricks / Kam 4 Loop
Why upside down?
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Date: Tue, Nov 13 2007 21:42:14
Mak here...ppl....i need some help...in Kam 4 Loop Combo i just can't make it right...after twisted sonic i cannot make the 1.5 TA with my index finger...i'm just used to do it with my midle finger...and i cannot do the sonic 24...it never comes out right...just some rare times...plz help me...even if you see alot of posts...the more help the best...arigatou
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Date: Tue, Nov 13 2007 21:44:33
I'll let you in on a pen spinning secret but you have to promise not to tell anyone.
...practice -
Date: Tue, Nov 13 2007 21:51:16QUOTE (K4S @ Nov 13 2007, 09:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I'll let you in on a pen spinning secret but you have to promise not to tell anyone.
...practice
u just told every1!!!!
if you wanted it to be a secret u should pm me....
thanks
XDD -
Date: Tue, Nov 13 2007 21:53:07
Just keep doing "twisted sonic 23-12 > thumbspin 1.5" over and over again...worked for me
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Date: Tue, Nov 13 2007 21:57:08QUOTE (K4S @ Nov 13 2007, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Just keep doing "twisted sonic 23-12 > thumbspin 1.5" over and over again...worked for me
dats wot i'm trying to do..
but the pen doesn't go in the right position 4 1.5 :x -
Date: Tue, Nov 13 2007 22:09:47
I started by doing sonic 23-12 > TA, then twisted sonic 23-12 > TS 1.5.
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Date: Tue, Nov 13 2007 23:41:06
If you are having problems with the Thumbspin, practice Thumbaround with an index finger push, then move onto the Thumbspin with an index finger push.
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Date: Wed, Nov 14 2007 00:12:21QUOTE (Mak @ Nov 13 2007, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>dats wot i'm trying to do..
but the pen doesn't go in the right position 4 1.5 :x
At 23, when you're about to do the twisted sonic, make sure the pen looks like this...
stfu about the crappy paint job. -
Date: Wed, Nov 14 2007 22:09:07QUOTE (Look Into the Sun @ Nov 14 2007, 12:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>At 23, when you're about to do the twisted sonic, make sure the pen looks like this...
stfu about the crappy paint job.
like this.....? :x
XDDD
i don't think the image thingy worked...xD -
Date: Wed, Nov 14 2007 22:29:40
it worked earlier. basically, it was a picture showing the COP on the inside of the hand (palmside) to set up for later.
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Date: Wed, Nov 14 2007 23:59:27QUOTE (Mak @ Nov 14 2007, 02:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>like this.....? :x
XDDD
i don't think the image thingy worked...xD
I fixed it. -
Date: Thu, Nov 15 2007 01:11:21
Just practice a TA with the index first!
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Date: Thu, Nov 15 2007 01:45:32QUOTE (UEDan @ Nov 14 2007, 05:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Just practice a TA with the index first!
Then learn to do a thumbspin with the index push. TS 1.5 isn't hard to get. anything higher becomes trickier -
Date: Thu, Nov 15 2007 09:57:24QUOTE (Look Into the Sun @ Nov 14 2007, 12:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>At 23, when you're about to do the twisted sonic, make sure the pen looks like this...
stfu about the crappy paint job.
i can see it now!
thanks...that should help...looks a bit tricky doing it in a point so high of the pen...i'll try to get it right like that
arigatouQUOTE (UEDan @ Nov 15 2007, 01:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Just practice a TA with the index first!
i can do it already!... i just need to practice TS with the index...i'll be doing it the whole day! thanks.. and i'm gonna start n....
QUOTE (Crzyazn @ Nov 15 2007, 01:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Then learn to do a thumbspin with the index push. TS 1.5 isn't hard to get. anything higher becomes trickier
lol...i'll practice it
thanks
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Date: Sun, Nov 18 2007 05:17:57QUOTE (K4S @ Nov 13 2007, 01:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I'll let you in on a pen spinning secret but you have to promise not to tell anyone.
...practice
Hosnap! The secret is out! Quick, burn the evidence! Bring out the hit lists! Start the memory wipes! lol
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Date: Sun, Nov 18 2007 20:49:33
hey ppl!i can already do the twisted sonic and Thumb spin 1.5 with my index finger all together....NOW i'm having problems with sonic 34....o.o
xDDDDDDD
ican't put it together with the twisted sonic...any help?
PS: i'll post a video as soon as i can...plz reply! -
Date: Sun, Nov 18 2007 20:52:32
Practice Sonic 34-23 > Twisted Sonic 23-12 until you get it right.
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Date: Mon, Nov 19 2007 12:41:04QUOTE (sketching @ Nov 18 2007, 08:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Practice Sonic 34-23 > Twisted Sonic 23-12 until you get it right.
that's my problem...after i do sonic the pen goes to my flap...(i think it's how it's called)
and i cannot do twisted sonic from there... -
Date: Mon, Nov 19 2007 13:00:53
Try doing non-pressure sonic, it's tricker but better later on so you can put it into combos. I also have problem's with the 1.5 it always does 2 or 1 ;p
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Date: Mon, Nov 19 2007 17:59:31QUOTE (Mak @ Nov 19 2007, 05:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>that's my problem...after i do sonic the pen goes to my flap...(i think it's how it's called)
and i cannot do twisted sonic from there...
How is it ending in the thumbflap? Sonic 34-23 ends between the middle and ring fingers.
You should check to make sure that you are doing Sonic 34-23 correctly.
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Date: Mon, Nov 19 2007 18:05:53
he's probably doing neo-sonic then...
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Date: Mon, Nov 19 2007 18:34:56
i think he meant when he does a sonic 34-23 it ends in the flap of 23 instead of remaining at the tips of 23. This makes it ridiculously hard to do a twisted sonic 23-12 when it is in the flap rather than the tips. My advice is....
practice =/ -
Date: Mon, Nov 19 2007 20:02:07QUOTE (scyros @ Nov 19 2007, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i think he meant when he does a sonic 34-23 it ends in the flap of 23 instead of remaining at the tips of 23. This makes it ridiculously hard to do a twisted sonic 23-12 when it is in the flap rather than the tips. My advice is....
practice =/
...and that's exactly what happens to me
any tips? >< besides practice, which I already do... -
Date: Mon, Nov 19 2007 21:58:40
Keep the COP of the pen above your fingers (palm face-down). It'll be harder to 43-32 sonic at first but the COP will end up near the fingertips of 23.
If the pen somehow still ends up too far down the slot, you can direct the COP toward the fingertips by either a] moving your hand back, or b] curling your fingers. These two techniques help while practicing K4LC, but once mastered, you should be able to perform the combo with minimal hand/finger movement. You can also perform the twisted sonic as in Look Into the Sun's picture, but I personally find it easier to do twisted sonic when the COP is closer to your fingertips.
Hope this helps. -
Date: Mon, Nov 19 2007 22:03:08
If you are doing a NeoSonic 34, then the middle finger is being held too far away from the pinky finger. Go read the Sonic Normal thread in the Fundamentals forum and look at the photos that I put up of the Sonic hand position. Try to have a similar position for the Sonic 34. The middle and pinky fingers need to be in line during the execution.
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Date: Mon, Nov 19 2007 23:05:44
okay well before learning the combo in full, learn how to do sonic 34-23 really well so you can get it most of the times. as for the thumbspin, as soon as you catch the twisted sonic with the pen in the thumbflap flick your index finger and it should glide real smooth like
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Date: Mon, Nov 19 2007 23:54:46QUOTE (Aries @ Nov 19 2007, 05:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Try doing non-pressure sonic, it's tricker but better later on so you can put it into combos. I also have problem's with the 1.5 it always does 2 or 1 ;p
When I do a thumbspin 1.5, I have the first spin occur on the tip of my knuckle and then it spins another .5 revolutions as it falls off the tip of my knuckle and into T1. -
Date: Tue, Nov 20 2007 03:55:42
Ok, lets see if I can add anything here.
First off for the sonic. I think I know what you are doing but I'm not sure exactly how to tell you to correct it. It's more style/smoothness that comes with times. You need to focus on gripping the pen as gently as possible while sill remaining in control. When I do the sonic I try to keep two fingers in contact with the pen as much as possible.
One thing I think might really help you to start with is try a charge 34 before the sonic. This will stress the circular motion of the pen and help you keep it under control. If the pen is getting jammed up between your fingers the only thing I can think is that you are flicking the pen left and right and not getting the whole arc of motion. If you get the end of the pen to spin out you will find it hard to even get it jammed.
Now as for the TS 1.5, first I would suggest getting a pen with two different ends(colour of cap/tip). Also you will want one with a clearly marked COP.
Start off with the standard push but try to go very slowly and 'place' the COP right on top of the second knuckle of your thumb. If you have been doing TS on the well of your hand or on the first knuckle of your thumb you may have to retrain yourself to bend your thumb and elevate the knuckle. Once you learn to do TS like this you will find it a lot easier to get the pen spinning on that single point and be able to watch for the 1.5 spins. Then all you will need to do is move your thumb and let the pen fall into your hand.
The problem with doing the TS anywhere else is that you lack the control to pick it off at a certain point. If you spin on the well of your hand you have no way to catch the pen, it's just spinning freely on the flat surface. Where if you spin on the point of the knuckle you have a lot of control of when the pen stops spinning and what it does afterwards.
I had to relearn my TS a while back to do it using the proper method, it was rather frustrating but really payed off in the end. Good luck man.
Final note. If you can unload a video and show people what is going on. It really helps us understand and give you advice. -
Date: Tue, Nov 20 2007 09:48:12QUOTE (scyros @ Nov 19 2007, 06:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i think he meant when he does a sonic 34-23 it ends in the flap of 23 instead of remaining at the tips of 23. This makes it ridiculously hard to do a twisted sonic 23-12 when it is in the flap rather than the tips. My advice is....
practice =/
YES!!see?this guy understands me! thanks
i would show you ppl it on a video but i'm punished and i can't go to my computer at home...i'm at school but as soon as i'm alone home i'll show you...i already have the video...QUOTE (RippDrive @ Nov 20 2007, 03:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ok, lets see if I can add anything here.
First off for the sonic. I think I know what you are doing but I'm not sure exactly how to tell you to correct it. It's more style/smoothness that comes with times. You need to focus on gripping the pen as gently as possible while sill remaining in control. When I do the sonic I try to keep two fingers in contact with the pen as much as possible.
One thing I think might really help you to start with is try a charge 34 before the sonic. This will stress the circular motion of the pen and help you keep it under control. If the pen is getting jammed up between your fingers the only thing I can think is that you are flicking the pen left and right and not getting the whole arc of motion. If you get the end of the pen to spin out you will find it hard to even get it jammed.
Now as for the TS 1.5, first I would suggest getting a pen with two different ends(colour of cap/tip). Also you will want one with a clearly marked COP.
Start off with the standard push but try to go very slowly and 'place' the COP right on top of the second knuckle of your thumb. If you have been doing TS on the well of your hand or on the first knuckle of your thumb you may have to retrain yourself to bend your thumb and elevate the knuckle. Once you learn to do TS like this you will find it a lot easier to get the pen spinning on that single point and be able to watch for the 1.5 spins. Then all you will need to do is move your thumb and let the pen fall into your hand.
The problem with doing the TS anywhere else is that you lack the control to pick it off at a certain point. If you spin on the well of your hand you have no way to catch the pen, it's just spinning freely on the flat surface. Where if you spin on the point of the knuckle you have a lot of control of when the pen stops spinning and what it does afterwards.
I had to relearn my TS a while back to do it using the proper method, it was rather frustrating but really payed off in the end. Good luck man.
Final note. If you can unload a video and show people what is going on. It really helps us understand and give you advice.
yes i know...check above...
and to answer you (and every1) i can already do the twisted sonic and the thumbspin 1.5 with "style/smoothness" as you said. My BIG problem is that i cannot do the sonic 34 to 23 without the pen going to my flap, between 2 and 3 (this one was 4 you Leftyi), so i can continue the movement to the twisted sonic....T.T -
Date: Sat, Oct 18 2008 21:16:07
Is there a reason why Kam's 4 Loop Combo has to be done palm down? I'm able to do it both palm up and palm down but I can't tell the difference in aesthetic appeal. I don't know if it looks better from an outside perspective, but unfortunately I don't have a camera to film myself.
If someone could tell me why it needs to be done palm down or make a video of themselves doing it palm up so I can can compare to other videos, that would be really helpful
.
~dont use color on whole text~ -
Date: Sat, Oct 18 2008 22:06:28
I think in Eso's tutorial for it he said it was more unique at the time because not many spinners went palm down. Not 100% sure, but that's what I think he says.
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Date: Sat, Oct 18 2008 22:32:50QUOTE (Ogarathe @ Oct 19 2008, 09:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think in Eso's tutorial for it he said it was more unique at the time because not many spinners went palm down. Not 100% sure, but that's what I think he says.
I think he said that it was unique at the time because when you do the trick, you rotate your hand slightly?
I'm not sure either. xD -
Date: Sat, Oct 18 2008 22:57:06
Yeah, horizontal hand position was a relatively new thing. Changing from horizontal to vertical, and vice versa, in one combo was also a new thing.
You can do the combo any which way you want to do it, doesn't matter. Do it all palm-up if you want to. -
Date: Sat, Oct 18 2008 23:28:12
uh..
the reason it is standardly done palm down is because the palm down charge rotations transfer smoothly to the TA rotation...
as sketching said, do it however you want, but you'll end up with 2.5 smooth rotations, a direction change, and another 1.5 smooth rotations, which isn't how the combo was intended to function -
Date: Sat, Oct 18 2008 23:50:42
@Shadowserpant: The smooth transition happened as you turn your hand from palm-down to palm-vertical. It doesn't work as well if you keep your hand palm-down right up to the Thumbspin. The point was the transition from palm-down to palm-vertical during the Twisted Sonic and how that transition can be done smoothly.
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Date: Sun, Oct 19 2008 00:10:25
...im not sure what you're trying to tell me ><
im saying if he does it all palm up, he'll lose the smooth transition -
Date: Sun, Oct 19 2008 00:48:08
Well here is why Kam created this trick to be performed upside down. When he created this trick, it was like 1997 or something like that. It was very popular then and the were no tricks that require your palm to be facing down so that is why. Hope this answers your question. And yes this trick can be performed with your palm up it just doesn't look as pro.
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Date: Sun, Oct 19 2008 11:44:00
Yeah, that answers my question. Thanks