UPSB v3
Philosophy / The discipline of modding
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Date: Tue, Oct 9 2007 05:15:37
This is an extension of the "Art & Craft" thread.
We say that the perfect pen spinner requires perfect "Art" and perfect "Craft".
The question is:
Does the perfect pen spinner requires perfect skill in modding?
In other words, is the perfect pen spinner a master of both pen spinning and pen modding?
Another way to put it is to say, suppose we hold a contest to determine who is the best all-around spinner in the world. Should that contest hold a pen modding section?
Discuss. -
Date: Tue, Oct 9 2007 05:48:23
The answer is simply "no"
The best and perfect spinner may spin a unmodded pencil, unmodded RSVP, unmodded bic. And his hands shake so much that he cant even cut out an insert.
But it would be nice if the best spinner is capable of doing both. And the craft part of PS is the creativity, one must create his/her own combos, not just steal others. -
Date: Tue, Oct 9 2007 07:58:40
It depends on your definition of 'pen spinner'. If you see 'pen spinner' as someone who purely spins pens, then someone with immense technical and creative skill would be great, even if they have never made a mod in their life. However, if you see 'pen spinner' as the whole package, then to be a great all round pen spinner, you would have to have the creative and technical aspects, as well as the abilities in modding, extensive knowledge of the subject of pen spinning, including naming of tricks and breaking down combos. One could also say an all round pen spinner such as this should have good video editing skills and perhaps even to be helpful on the forum(s) they are on. So does the perfect pen spinner need to be a great modder? My answer, not necassarily.
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Date: Tue, Oct 9 2007 08:28:53
I would say no.
We don't have "the greatest" of a lot of other disciplines making everything themselves, or anything, at times. I doubt that jugglers or XCM people make their own equipment much. The best pen spinner should just be that, the greatest at spinning a pen. The best should be able to use the tool at the top level, but I don't see why one would have to make the tool to any high aesthetic degree.
At some time, the greatest pen spinner may end up using an un-modded pen. You never know. -
Date: Tue, Oct 9 2007 08:37:55
my answer is 'yes'
In my opinion about the Art & Craft of Pen Spinning, Craft is pen modification and Art is PenSpinning. How many people can spin their pen without a modded pen? If a person can spin a modded pen really good but cannot mod a pen to spin..then the person won't be able to spin their pen since they don't have anything to spin. this is why i think modding is a essential skill of pen spinning -
Date: Tue, Oct 9 2007 22:03:37
I agree with WhiteFang. An 'Art' just simply can't be an 'Art' without its 'Craft'. And for pen spinning that 'Craft' would be pen modding. I don't think that there is a single pen spinner out there that doesn't know about pen modding, even if they don't spin a modded pen (or pencil). If they're the best they should still be pretty good at modding even if they don't spin a mod.
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Date: Wed, Oct 10 2007 19:29:57
I think some people have kind of misunderstood this "craft & art" thing. The craft is learning the tricks, the art is executing them and developing them, being creative and making something of the tricks you've learned.
The perfect penspinner does require skill in modding, though it does not have to be perfect. -
Date: Thu, Oct 11 2007 02:21:23QUOTEI think some people have kind of misunderstood this "craft & art" thing. The craft is learning the tricks, the art is executing them and developing them, being creative and making something of the tricks you've learned.
that's your (and many other people's) opinion about craft and art -
Date: Thu, Oct 11 2007 03:02:40
The best artist may need to know how to make a good painting, but he/she does not need to know how to make the paint, brushes or the canvas.
This logic applies to pen spinning as well. -
Date: Thu, Oct 11 2007 09:40:44QUOTE (Zombo @ Oct 9 2007, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Does the perfect pen spinner requires perfect skill in modding?
No. Pen spinning and pen modding are two very different skill sets. Zombo I'd like to hear your own views on this matter... -
Date: Thu, Oct 11 2007 13:31:48
I say no because the musician is not required to build his own instrument.
However on the other hand, pen modding is an aspect unique to pen spinning and so for someone to truly be a master of all aspects of pen spinning (all around) s/he must possess skills in all facets of pen spinning, which includes pen modding and also video editing for collab. -
Date: Thu, Oct 11 2007 15:07:19QUOTE (TayYH89 @ Oct 10 2007, 11:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The best artist may need to know how to make a good painting, but he/she does not need to know how to make the paint, brushes or the canvas.
This logic applies to pen spinning as well.
QFGJ
While pen modding may be an aspect unique to pen spinning, is it imperative that one must master all aspects in order to truly be called "a master?"
If so, then I don't see why the same principle holds true for other arts, such as painting, music, or swordsmanship. There are plenty of historical figures who are revered as being masters of their field, yet they did not create the instruments themselves.
I believe that the idea of "art & craft" is being mis-applied here. -
Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 00:05:17QUOTE (Eso @ Oct 11 2007, 11:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>QFGJ
While pen modding may be an aspect unique to pen spinning, is it imperative that one must master all aspects in order to truly be called "a master?"
If so, then I don't see why the same principle holds true for other arts, such as painting, music, or swordsmanship. There are plenty of historical figures who are revered as being masters of their field, yet they did not create the instruments themselves.
I believe that the idea of "art & craft" is being mis-applied here.
Then we have also mis-applied the term "master". Am I right? If so then how exactly do define "master" and the "art & craft" so we can properly apply them? -
Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 00:21:38
For the sake of discussion, if you think modding pens is required to be a pen spinning master, should one also be able to take and edit video? Should they be able to know what angle looks good, where to put lighting, and how to add special effects (ghost images etc?).
IMO, i don't think modding is required to be a pen spinning master. -
Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 04:00:16
i could spin even the stick next to the tree in my yard ( as long as its balance
) so i dont really mind if it looks artistic or simply a perfect mod... -
Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 04:10:56
Jsut to give a counter-example:
The oboe is a woodwind instrument. Its input is a double-reed. Oboists prepare their own reed and a good reed is absolutely needed in order for the oboe to have a sharp sound.
Therefore, a good oboist player not only knows how to make good reeds, but also how to play the instrument well. -
Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 17:02:58
other examples of this:
a rubik's cube master doesn't always have to customize his/her cube
DDR players can play on crappy pads
NASCAR drivers have to know their cars EXTREMELY well -
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 18:55:49QUOTE (Zombo @ Oct 12 2007, 12:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Jsut to give a counter-example:
The oboe is a woodwind instrument. Its input is a double-reed. Oboists prepare their own reed and a good reed is absolutely needed in order for the oboe to have a sharp sound.
Therefore, a good oboist player not only knows how to make good reeds, but also how to play the instrument well.
True, but not all oboists will make their own reeds, many will buy their own. Same goes with pen spinning; you may either mod a pen or buy one. -
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 22:15:57QUOTE (kensai @ Oct 14 2007, 02:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>True, but not all oboists will make their own reeds, many will buy their own. Same goes with pen spinning; you may either mod a pen or buy one.
maybe if you're an amateur, but pros will make their own. -
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 04:17:16QUOTE (Zombo @ Oct 14 2007, 03:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>maybe if you're an amateur, but pros will make their own.
But do they have to make their own in order to be pro? Nope! A pro Pen Spinner will most likely make his own pen (c'mon, at least 99% of the time), but he doesn't have to do so in order to be pro.
My thesis:
To be a pro Pen Spinner, you must be able to spin a pen masterfully.
To be a master of Pen Spinning, you must have masterful skill and knowledge in all areas of PS.
If I was apprenticing for PS and my master couldn't even mod a damn pen I wouldn't consider him a true master ><' -
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 17:18:20QUOTE (NDiZ @ Oct 15 2007, 12:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>If I was apprenticing for PS and my master couldn't even mod a damn pen I wouldn't consider him a true master ><'
Very interesting point of view! However, if you asked Yo Yo Ma to give you lessons in cello, would you consider him a master? He doesn't know how to make cellos or bows (or does he?).
Perhaps the root of the debate here is that people view pen spinning as an "oboe" art. -
Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 17:40:18
I don't see why a master pen spinner would need to be a master craftsman as well. As long the person can make a pen to fit his needs, that should be enough. No need for him to have any kind of super extensive knowledge or experience making all kinds of pen mods. If a double-capped mod is all that is needed for that person, there's no reason for the person to go out of his way to research so many kinds of mods or be able to make especially complicated mods.
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Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 18:54:29
No, but I think that pen spinners should make their own pens and not buy them off of sites like PenWish, even though they're more convenient.
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Date: Tue, Oct 16 2007 06:27:25
Zombo did bring out a good point, come to thing of it, yeah, I do agree with him on some points.
Well, a good pen spinning should know how to mod pens, but it isn't necessary for him to be the best modder in order to become the best. Using his example of the oboe, yes, the pros know how to make their own reeds, but it doesn't mean they are the best in making one. -
Date: Tue, Oct 16 2007 21:07:59
My answer is "no" too. BUT for me modding and trading is a very important part of penspinning.
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Date: Sat, Jan 19 2008 18:00:17
I intend to become a brilliant spinner... and never use a mod. Though I might make a BICtory or something...
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Date: Thu, Aug 7 2008 18:08:04
i think that the greatest pen spinner would have to be someone who can spin both modded and unmodded pens. Modded pens are simply pens made to make tricks easier to do and for style. The ability to mod is nothing. That being said, modded pens are fun to invent/make from tutorials.
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Date: Thu, Mar 12 2009 08:22:27
logic applies:Artists Like Leonardo Da vinci makes their own paint.not necessarily getting it direct from the source such as grinding.but by modifying it such as adding water or stuff.
Similarly,a pro pen spinner usually makes their own mod.not necessarily making the plastic and grips,but by creating one out