UPSB v3
Trading / Buying / Problem with trading and reputation points
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Date: Thu, Nov 6 2008 20:17:19
Well we all know if a trade goes well than both of you give each other +1
and when they don't get the pens than they will give the person a -1
but what if the person said that they never received the pens when they really did.
is it fair to make the other person send again? is it fair that they will get a -1?
i know all this trading stuff is risky business. I just dont think that some people should get -1 because
the other person didn't get it, and it is fishy...cuz what if they didn't send in the first place anyways...
should we come up with some a little more than just + or -...
i know there is tracking but that costs a lot more to ship and not a lot of people want that...
maybe we should suggest somewhere that anything over 30 dollars should have tracking and both of you will agree on that?
im just bringing this up cuz this is what i always worry about when selling or trading...
ive traded a lot and i have never scammed anyone and i dont want the to say they never received even though they have. and i dont think its fair if it gets lost in mailing and would need to pay them back or send again. if it gets lost than its defiantly not ur fault and you shouldn't be made to pay it back because that will lead and an fair trade off. the person will get 2 for the price of 1.
maybe we should have a system where it kinda regulates how long you use upsb so you know that the person isn't just a come and go. maybe post count too? idk what do you guys think. -
Date: Thu, Nov 6 2008 20:36:09
I think we should make 3 new categories of trading. In the first category there going to be people that want to trade sending their pens with normal mail. In the second there will gonna be people who want to trade sending with registered mail (99,9999% safe but not fast as well). Finally, in the third category there will be people that will send with a private courier service (for example UPS, 100% safe and extremely fast but also expensive).
I believe this is the only solution. Things like these TEK mentioned can happen to anyone no matter his activity, his posts or whatever. But with the way i suggested everyone takes his risks and pays for what he wants to get. -
Date: Thu, Nov 6 2008 22:02:30
Personally, i think that a FANTASTIC system is already in place, created by one of the regs here. Kam.
Although you could expand his idea a bit further.
If a package gets lost, here are rules that i think should be put in place to keep both the shipper, and reciever safe.
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Rules:
1.) The shipper MUST have a reciept (or similar legal document) showing that indeed DID ship the package. This must include the reciever's name/address on the reciept
2.) The shipper MUST take at least 1 picture/ or video with the package (with name and address on the package) and the forementioned pens in full view.
3.) The reciever MUST wait a MINIMUM of Four weeks (1 calendar month) before making a complaint.
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If ANY of these rules are broken, the trade is nulled. ("Whatever happens, happens.")
If ALL of these rules are complied with, then the 2 parties (Shipper, Reciever) MUST split the burden of the losses. (ie. Send cash, send pens, etc.)
If there are ANY disputes between the parties (Shipper, Reciever) They must be taken to a "Trading Post Mod" (or "Judge") who will then look at the situation, see if any of the rules were held/ broken. and decide what the two parties will do.
If 1 or both of the parties do not comply with the "Trading Post Mod's" decision, there will be consequences. (ie -1 feedback, banning, etc.)
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I think that this is the easiest and clearest way to protect everyone.
I do not believe that shipping with tracking is the easiest, or most effective way of trading.
In Canada, shipping is already expensive (minimum $4 to anywhere) for the lowest form.
Any shipping option with tracking will cost me a MINIMUM of 40$. Which is absolutely ridiculous.
Personally, haveing done over 60 trades, there HAS been a few people with suspicious ways that i have come across.
And i find Cold, hard, evidence is the only way to deal with this situation. -
Date: Thu, Nov 6 2008 22:37:50
this is sorta related to this
but what if you receive an empty package?
i traded with a japanese guy and i got an envelope with no pen
and he thinks im scamming him, which im not
im in a very uncomfortable position as of now
as for the system, i think the fantastic system would work fine although it is a bit of a hassle
personally, i would love it if everyone was honest which some arent
so, i guess we need evidence -
Date: Thu, Nov 6 2008 22:53:13QUOTE (Stevieboy7 @ Nov 7 2008, 12:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Any shipping option with tracking will cost me a MINIMUM of 40$. Which is absolutely ridiculous.
You must talking about an express or something like that service.
A normal registered mail which will arrive in its destination in the same time as an normal package except it can be tracked so it cannot get lost cost for me 3-4 EUR for countries in the EE and maximum 7 EUR for the rest of the world. -
Date: Thu, Nov 6 2008 23:15:11QUOTE (spinforlife @ Nov 6 2008, 05:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>You must talking about an express or something like that service.
A normal registered mail which will arrive in its destination in the same time as an normal package except it can be tracked so it cannot get lost cost for me 3-4 EUR for countries in the EE and maximum 7 EUR for the rest of the world.
Nope.. you cannot buy Tracking with regular mail... it has to be a certain shipping method, before you have the option to buy it.
Its different alll over the world man. This isn't a regulated thing.
and as i said... the MINIMUM i pay for a package is 4$... which is a sign that or postal systems everywhere are different. -
Date: Thu, Nov 6 2008 23:34:13
For domestic I use delivery confirmation which tells me it's been delivered. Plus it's free if you ship with PayPal.
Paypal works for international shipping and has buyer protection, which tracks the package and if it never gets there I get my money back. (Sorta.)
Paypal is super awesome and I wish everyone here used it, but I understand it's not really accessible to all.
Also, the registration date is shown under the usernames of everyone. Being observant of this helps you find good members who have been around for a while, and not just those here temporarily. -
Date: Thu, Nov 6 2008 23:45:16
For me in Singapore, having registered mail.
the best and last status would be if its despatched to overseas.
not if its received.
however.
the receipt is hard evidence with their address on it.
and it does not cost a lot.
it is just around 2.20SGD
so i really think that everyone should register.
cause that will give them a good and hard evidence that yes they sent when anything happens. -
Date: Fri, Nov 7 2008 00:38:25
i think #1 on Steve's list is good. we should all do that...but i think the receipts i get don't have the full address and name...it has like...country and city
#2 prolly for biiig trades cuz some ppl have little trades and you don't really need to take a pic of that.
we need a mod on this. -
Date: Fri, Nov 7 2008 00:50:56
I sent ~$35 of pens to someone a few weeks ago, he only has +1 besides the one I gave him for receiving his money and he still hasn't gotten it. Should I wait longer, resend another pack worth the same $$ or what?
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Date: Fri, Nov 7 2008 02:10:10QUOTE (TEK @ Nov 6 2008, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i think #1 on Steve's list is good. we should all do that...but i think the receipts i get don't have the full address and name...it has like...country and city
#2 prolly for biiig trades cuz some ppl have little trades and you don't really need to take a pic of that.
we need a mod on this.
Yah... i see what you're saying.
#2 could be just a safety.... you could even have any picture that shows that you had these pens at one point in time.
its more of an evidence thing if it comes down to going to a moderator. Not a neccesityQUOTE (Darkeh @ Nov 6 2008, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I sent ~$35 of pens to someone a few weeks ago, he only has +1 besides the one I gave him for receiving his money and he still hasn't gotten it. Should I wait longer, resend another pack worth the same $$ or what?
hmm... lets try out the rules!!
do you have any reciepts of sending it or anything?
any type of thing to show him that you did send the pens?
If all else fails... you can tell him it is not your fault that they were lost, and try to make a deal to bear half the loses.
If he fails to co-operate.... (as TEK said) we need a specific trade mod
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Date: Fri, Nov 7 2008 02:15:04QUOTE (Citadel @ Nov 6 2008, 04:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>For domestic I use delivery confirmation which tells me it's been delivered. Plus it's free if you ship with PayPal.
wtf! i never knew that -
Date: Fri, Nov 7 2008 06:03:07
This is kind of a grey area because if the person did receive the pens but lied and said they didn't receive them, it's likely their intention was to scam you, and it's likely they did the same thing to multiple people with the expectation of eventually being banned.
Also, the idea about shipper and receiver splitting the cost of the lost items doesnt really seem fair imo....Example, if you buy something from an online store (ie penwish) and the package gets lost, would you be willing to cover half of the cost of items lost? Probably not....the same idea applies to trading imo. That isn't to say the idea is completely bad, but i dont think it's the ideal solution and needs to be tweaked although i dont have any ideas myself ._. -
Date: Thu, Nov 27 2008 06:05:01
Yah.. I don't know.. the guy I sold stuff said he didn't get it, but I don't know.. I have proof from the post office that I sent it.. what to do?
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Date: Thu, Nov 27 2008 09:26:12QUOTE (NoRice4U @ Nov 27 2008, 02:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yah.. I don't know.. the guy I sold stuff said he didn't get it, but I don't know.. I have proof from the post office that I sent it.. what to do?
well if you have proof...
i you should definitely not get a -1
maybe neutral? -
Date: Thu, Nov 27 2008 09:38:11
This is the reason why even though if my + is higher than someone., i insist that i must send first.
this is so that if my stuff gets lost, i can just cancel the trade, instead of receving his pens then realising that mine hadnt reached.. i would feel guilty -
Date: Thu, Nov 27 2008 15:29:53
if sending money for pens overseas is it safe to send cash? the person im trading with has atleast a +30 whitelist i think. no negs
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Date: Mon, Dec 8 2008 22:00:16
I showed a receipt that the person with his city on it and a wieght around the number of pens he wants. He is asking for $30 of the $42 back isn't that a lot?