UPSB v3
Advanced Tricks / NeoSonic
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Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 09:56:11
I've always thought that this is just a sonic that ends in the thumbflap, and that it has 1.0 rotation.
But people have started calling passes (which have 0.5 rotations) to a slot including the thumb or the thumbflap neosonics.
What's the correct description for neosonics? If those passes are neosonics, should they be notated as neosonic 0.5 or will neosonic's standard rotation be 0.5? -
Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 10:10:44
yeah it is 0.5 rotations i think.
it's just like a pass with more flicking action from 34/23/12 > T1/TF.
and i'm not sure if you can have a neosonic with multiple rotations. wouldn't that make it a reverse index/middle/ring spin?
i'm not sure, but i think there is no such thing as a trick standardly having a certain number of rotations, like a shaodw still has 1.5 rotations, but a shadow still 2.0 does no have 3.0 rotations, but just 2.0. and a shadow still 1.5 is just a regular shadow, not 2.25 spins(what the heck?).
yeah the number at the end represents the number of rounds the pen spins.
hope that answers your question. -
Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 10:18:34QUOTE (Nova @ Oct 12 2007, 08:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i'm not sure, but i think there is no such thing as a trick standardly having a certain number of rotations, like a shaodw still has 1.5 rotations, but a shadow still 2.0 does no have 3.0 rotations, but just 2.0. and a shadow still 1.5 is just a regular shadow, not 2.25 spins(what the heck?).
yeah the number at the end represents the number of rounds the pen spins.
Yeah there is, for instance when someone just says shadow still, it means 1.5 rotations, and it only means a different amount of rotations if there is a number after it, eg shadow still 2.0. -
Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 12:40:56
Neo-sonic can have 0.5 and 1.0 rotation. 0.5 rotation if u catch pen with TX (X-any finger, 12-T1 for example) and 1.0 rotation if u catch pen in TF position. For example, neo-sonic 12-Tf ~ FL TA rev hybrid have 2.0 rotation, so neo-sonic in this hybrid have 1.0 rotation.
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Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 15:00:54
that's an interesting point.
imo the neosonic always has 0.5 rotations but there is an extra half rotation in that hybrid after the 'catch' of the neosonic and before the 'push' of the FL TA rev. i don't think this half rotation can actually be attributed to either trick but is actually part of the transition.
i'd be interested to hear what others think about this half rotation, however i think, to be clear, the neosonic should only be said to have .5 rotations. -
Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 15:14:23
Currently, NeoSonic has 1.0 rotation: 0.5 over the finger for the Fingeraround Reverse push, 0.5 as it enters the T1/TF slot for the catch. It's just because of the Thumb's lower positioning and the curve of the hand.
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Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 16:46:13
Eh a normal neosonic should have 1 rotation
a 'neosonic' with only 0.5 rotations i think would be a pass 23-T1 instead aka a normal pass but the pass ending in 12 is instead caught with the index finger and thumb...no really...and somebody said the neo is neophytewhatever which means beginner?cause neosonic is what most beginners do at first if they don't know what to do with the index finger(to lazy to say it)in sonic meaning neosonic is beginnersonic and a sonic has 1 rotation not 0.5...That's just my opinion!!! 
eh feel free to sue me if what i said is wrong!!!
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Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 17:03:09
I'm confused now. If you start a neosonic 23-12 with the tip facing your palm when it land in 12 the cap is facing your palm. Thus .5 rotations. I don't see an extra .5 rotations.
I think your description should read.QUOTE (sketching @ Oct 12 2007, 10:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Currently, NeoSonic has .5 rotation: .25 over the finger for the Fingeraround Reverse push, .25 as it enters the T1/TF slot for the catch. It's just because of the Thumb's lower positioning and the curve of the hand.
If I am wrong please explain. -
Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 17:23:58QUOTE (CPC @ Oct 13 2007, 01:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I'm confused now. If you start a neosonic 23-12 with the tip facing your palm when it land in 12 the cap is facing your palm. Thus .5 rotations. I don't see an extra .5 rotations.
I think your description should read.
If I am wrong please explain.
seriously dude what your describing is a pass
here's eso's video tutorial
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Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 18:08:03QUOTE (CPC @ Oct 12 2007, 10:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I'm confused now. If you start a neosonic 23-12 with the tip facing your palm when it land in 12 the cap is facing your palm. Thus .5 rotations. I don't see an extra .5 rotations.
I think your description should read.
If I am wrong please explain.
Currently NeoSonics do not end in any slot besides T1. If you do a Fingeraround Reverse push and land in another finger slot besides T1, you are most likely doing half of a Fingeraround Reverse. -
Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 18:19:04
it seems that me a cpc are thinking similarly.
as was said, a neosonic is a beginner's mistake at performing a sonic. instead of diverting the travel of the pen with the index finger the pen goes in front of the index finger before being caught in the next slot. this is the other point a neosonic, surely, can be done from any slot to the next (or to a point further up the hand) and not just from 23 or 12 to T1/TF.
so yes, i would say that a neosonic is basically a pass but a thrown pass (is this what is often referred to as a passaround now?) which is generally fairly ugly and not so useful unless it is done into the T1 slot.
so, when a neosonic is thrown to T1/TF it is still caught after .5 rotations but it continues to travel to the back of the TF. this extra .5 rotations, it seems to me, is not part of the neosonic proper.
as ever, just my feelings on the matter. more experienced spinners may disagree -
Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 18:22:44
If you perform the same pen motion from the 34 slot to the 12 slot, you end up just doing a hybrid:
Fingeraround Reverse 34-23 [p][s 0.5] ~ Inverse Sonic 23-12 [c]
...it doesn't have a name since it's just a hybrid, and it only does 0.5 rotation.
The original NeoSonic was just a messed up Sonic 23-12 that flipped over the Middle finger and flew into the Thumbflap...hey! That's a new trick. It was then extended to starting in the 34 slot and 12 slot, flipping the pen over the top finger and landing in the Thumbflap/T1 slot. So far, that's all there is. -
Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 19:15:09QUOTE (asakawa @ Oct 13 2007, 02:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>it seems that me a cpc are thinking similarly.
as was said, a neosonic is a beginner's mistake at performing a sonic. instead of diverting the travel of the pen with the index finger the pen goes in front of the index finger before being caught in the next slot. this is the other point a neosonic, surely, can be done from any slot to the next (or to a point further up the hand) and not just from 23 or 12 to T1/TF.
so yes, i would say that a neosonic is basically a pass but a thrown pass (is this what is often referred to as a passaround now?) which is generally fairly ugly and not so useful unless it is done into the T1 slot.
so, when a neosonic is thrown to T1/TF it is still caught after .5 rotations but it continues to travel to the back of the TF. this extra .5 rotations, it seems to me, is not part of the neosonic proper.
as ever, just my feelings on the matter. more experienced spinners may disagree
but a beginner should no that it's only a pass if it's .5 rotation because they're doing the fundy...but if he doesn't know it...then he should know what a sonic look like so he should also know what he's doing isn't sonic...he also can't really say it's a new trick cause there's already a pass or pass rev...and lastly it's like your saying the 34-23-12 part of a fingerpass normal is supposed to be neosonicfall/rise because of the pen going to 34-23-12...eh SUE ME ONCE AGAIN IF I'M WRONG cause a pass is different from a neosonic!!! -
Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 19:25:07
bry01phil... are you even reading my posts?
I'm assuming that what you two are going on about is a Fingeraround Reverse 0.5. That's all there is to it. Passes and Passes Reverse are held by the fingers at all times during the tricks, NeoSonics are not, so NeoSonics are not like Passes. -
Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 19:37:38
Edited.
@Sketching
Two questions.
So you are saying that a neosonic from 12 to t1 must lose contact with all fingers at some point to be considered a neosonic and if it stays in contact with the fingers it is just a pass 12 t1?
Either way this is .5 rotations since on and mx when you start the tip is facing your palm but when you end the cap is facing your palm but if you did so that the same end of the pen was facing your palm when you started and ended which would mean that the pen would have to do a half rotation in the air before you catch it then it would be 1.o rotations. Is this correct? -
Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 19:46:32
I think you misunderstood me.
NeoSonic always ended in the T1 slot or the inside the Thumbflap. It was originally started in the 23 slot since that was also the default for the Sonic: Sonic 23-12. NeoSonic 23-T1 was often done by accident. Once that was established as a new trick, the starting position was changed to included the other finger slots. The ending was always the same: T1/TF.
Examples:
NeoSonic 34-T1/TF
NeoSonic 23-T1/TF
NeoSonic 23-T1/TF
NeoSonic Reverse T1/TF-12
NeoSonic Reverse T1/TF-23
NeoSonic Reverse T1/TF-34
That's it. Nothing more to say there. Pretty straightforward, I would think.
If you perform a Fingeraround Reverse push and end in another finger slot besides T1, you are doing some kind of Fingeraround Reverse, not a NeoSonic.
Edit: in response to the edit above...
NeoSonics tend to end somewhere between 0.75 and 1.0 rotation, but has always been said to be 1.0 since you can have it make 1.0 depending on how you catch the pen.
NeoSonic 12-T1 can also just be called a Fingeraround Reverse 12-T1, the amount of rotation done depends on how far you let the pen rotate before catching it. -
Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 20:31:18QUOTE (sketching)bry01phil... are you even reading my posts? dry.gif
I'm assuming that what you two are going on about is a Fingeraround Reverse 0.5. That's all there is to it. Passes and Passes Reverse are held by the fingers at all times during the tricks, NeoSonics are not, so NeoSonics are not like Passes.
sorry sketching...i just wanted to prove a point
and i also said that neosonics are not like passes there!!!(indirectly)
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Date: Fri, Oct 12 2007 20:46:16
Yes, you were also the one who brought Passes into the conversation in the first place.
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Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 11:37:55
ah, ok. so it seems that the salient point i was missing was that the neosonic as a trick always ends in T1 - so it's moved on a bit from being a description of a failed sonic. i've been trying to find interesting tricks that would follow on from a neosonic after just .5 rotations and, in all honesty, most seem a bit rubish.
so does this make the neosonic like the shadow in that half a rotation occurs after the catch? also if you were to perform another trick after only .5 rotations of the neosonic would this be classed as an interupted trick and get hybrid notation?
i know you're getting frustrated at such lengthy debate of such a simple trick sketching but it's interesting (to me at least) and it'd be nice to pin down some definite answers. -
Date: Sat, Oct 13 2007 17:53:58
It doesn't have to have any extra movement during the catch. Again, how your hand is positioned and how long you wait before catching the pen will depend on how far the pen rotates. The following video shows a NeoSonic 23-T1 with 1.0 rotation, there is no extra rotation performed during the catch. The catch is just a simple pinching between the Thumb and Index finger.
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Date: Thu, Dec 27 2007 19:15:38
NeoSonic 24-TF:
What would the positioning of the fingers look like? -
Date: Thu, Dec 27 2007 19:20:22
The pen starts between the middle and pinky fingers, the ring finger is bent inward, out of the way. The pinky finger moves up and to the outside the middle finger to force the pen over the middle finger as if doing a Middlearound Reverse 24-24. The pen flips over the middle and is caught in the thumbflap.
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Date: Wed, Jan 9 2008 06:01:40
i don't know if this belongs in this board...
i'm having trouble linking neosonic to a fl ta rev directly without the thumbflap charge reverse... any tips? -
Date: Wed, Jan 9 2008 06:21:34
Finish the NeoSonic with most of the pen above the thumb. At that point, only a little thumb movement should be needed to push the pen. Imagine a kung-fu movie where someone gets foot-swiped, then try to picture that happening with your pen as the thumb moves to push the bottom of it.
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Date: Thu, Jan 10 2008 04:40:47
But do you need to actually close your thumbflap section to "catch" it? Or can you just push it across?
What does Bonkura do? I'm actually trying to imitate him... -
Date: Thu, Jan 10 2008 05:23:07
You don't grip the pen after the NeoSonic, just sweep it with your thumb. That's how bonkura (along with probably everyone else) does it too.
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Date: Sat, Jan 12 2008 01:38:28
Every time i do a normal neosonic... it kinda flies up into the air a bit and then lands in T1.
is that normal? -
Date: Sat, Jan 12 2008 03:55:56QUOTE (ArchAngel2 @ Jan 12 2008, 09:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Every time i do a normal neosonic... it kinda flies up into the air a bit and then lands in T1.
is that normal?
Initially, yes. You may want to learn the IndexAround Reverse to understand the amount of and direction of force required by the middle finger to push the pen around the index finger instead of flying around it. You'll most probably need to use less force. Try to use just enough force to get the pen over the index finger. The thumb catch should come rather naturally. -
Date: Wed, Jan 30 2008 09:17:29
there is a neosonic 0.5?o.o...isn't that like pass from 23 or which ever ur doing to thumb flap?
anyways..i do 1 revolution...like...fliping through the air...
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Date: Wed, Jan 30 2008 09:31:41
A NeoSonic 0.5 23 would probably be performed as a Middlearound Reverse 0.5 23-T2.
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Date: Wed, Jan 30 2008 23:18:33
ummm. neosonic ends in the thumbflap. the passes should be passarounds (starting finger slot)-T(other finger)
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Date: Mon, May 19 2008 18:02:39
what do you think about neosonic 12-12?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=M1mR3Nz_HCU -
Date: Mon, May 19 2008 18:05:48
@spinnerpijop: That's Indexaround Reverse.
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Date: Thu, May 22 2008 14:46:53
i know, but i think its the same as neosonic 12-12
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Date: Thu, May 22 2008 16:23:06
Neosonic ends in the T1, so Neosonic 12-12 doesn't work.
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Date: Fri, May 22 2009 03:46:00
All right, Neosonic discussion. I can do it easily with a short pen, because it can pass within my hand, but when I do it with a longer pen (there was a crayola marker mod tut in here somewhere that's pretty long) it slaps the top of my thumbflap as it comes around and I fail.
Tips? Discussion? -
Date: Fri, May 22 2009 05:48:35
You can actually "flick"(idk what word to use) the pen up from 12/23/34/13/24/14 slot to your TF with the first rotation going up straight and then, the remaining 0.5 rotation will automatically cause ur pen to reach ur thumbflap.
I'm sure it's just mastering the concept of manipulating the rotations. Well, I may be wrong. But that's just my $0.02.
(So don't flame me if it's BS to you) -
Date: Fri, May 22 2009 18:25:17
Haha, it's fine. Any input is def. appreciated. I'll try this and thanks.
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Date: Fri, May 22 2009 18:32:44
It shoudln't roatate directly into the thumb flap, have a more flat roation thats more perpindicular to yur 1st finger. then bring your hand in for the catch.