UPSB v3

Naming Committee / [topic][5.4.1] Trick Types

sketching
Date: Sat, Jun 16 2007 07:19:08

This is obviously very important to define, and the last definition was done in 2003, clearly this must be updated.

Old definition...
QUOTE (Kam)
Spin Type 1 - The "Around" Spin

This is the spin used in the ThumbAround(aka 360 Degree Normal), IndexAround, Neo-Sonic, BackAround, and many others. Basically, the pen spins around part of your hand (usually your finger, but it can be two fingers, part of your hand, etc.). What makes this type of spin impressive is that the pen only contacts the finger at one point during the entire spin. This gives the illusion that the pen is "glued" to your finger.

Spin Type 2 - The "Twirl" or "Cone" Spin

This spin is seen in the Charge, Twisted Sonic, and a bit in the Sonic as well. With the pen held between two fingers, loosening and folding the appropriate finger at the precise timing will cause the pen to spin in a double coned shape (if done fast, it looks much like an hour glass). The pen never spins around any finger and remains in place.

Spin Type 3 - The "Pass"

The Pass is used in tricks like the FingerPass and Triangle Pass. Simply put, you hold the pen between your fingers (can be two or more fingers, depending on the type of Pass), move one of the fingers slightly to cause the pen to rotate (no more than 180 degrees), then place another finger in place. This can be seen as similar to the Around Spin, but the Pass usually consists of half (or less) rotations. The pen is held securely by at least two fingers at all times. The Pass is often used in a combination of passes to create a more complex and pleasant effect.

Spin Type 4 - The "Sonic" Spin

There's something unique about the trick called Sonic. Although it uses part of the "Cone" Spin, it has something unique that makes the pen go behind one finger (causing it to be parallel to that finger for a moment). Tricks that use this spin include the Sonic, the Inverse Sonic, the Shadow, and others.

Spin Type 5 - The "Top" Spin

This spin is classically used on Multiple ThumbSpins (more than 1 rotation). The pen spins on top of your Thumb (or any part of your hand) for multiple rotations. To keep the pen spinning longer, the pen is balanced on its COP when spinning, and a heavier pen is usually better to accomplish this. This is similar to spinning a book or a basketball.

Spin Type 6 - The "Self-Rotational" Spin.

Basically, the Self-Rotational Spin comprises of tricks that require self-rotations. Examples of such tricks would be: the Triangle Pass, the Wiper, the Backhand Tracer, and the Backaround. If you put your pen down on a slanted surface and it starts to roll, you are seeing an example of the self-rotational spin. This type of spin is usually found mixed together with other spins, but it's an important spin nonetheless. Understanding of the pen's self-rotation during the learning stages of the Backaround dramatically reduces the amount of time needed to successfully learn the trick.

Spin Type 7 - The "Through" Spin.

This spin is a characteristic move of the Infinity family. In this move, the pen is held near the tips with two fingers. During the spin, the longer side of the pen would move from one side of the hand to the opposite side. The pen literally travels "through" the fingers with an axis of rotation that lies between the fingers, hence the name "Through" Spin.

Spin Type 8 - The "Air" Spin.

The Air Spin is perhaps the broadest family of spin. This is because the Air Spin comprises of several other types of spins that are mentioned above, but only performed in the air. In other words, as long as the pencil spins in anyway without contact of any body parts, the spin would be considered as an Air Spin.

Taken from UPSB.

New definition...

1) The Around Spin

This spin type involves the pen spinning around a part of the hand. This can be a single finger, multiple fingers, or even part of the hand itself. Example around tricks: thumbaround, indexaround, backaround, middleindexaround.

2) The Cone Spin

With the pen held between two fingers, loosening and folding the appropriate finger at the precise timing will cause the pen to spin in a double coned shape. note that the pen never spins around anything. Example cone spin tricks: Charge, twisted sonic

3) The sonic spin

Partly related to the cone spin, it is a similar movement. However, in a sonic spin type, the pen will go behind one finger, causing the pen to be parallel to the finger at one point in the rotation. Example trick: sonic.

4)The Pass

You hold the pen between your fingers (can be two or more fingers, depending on the type of Pass), move one of the fingers slightly to cause the pen to rotate (no more than 180 degrees), then place another finger in place. The pen is held securely by at least two fingers at all times. Example pass tricks: Triangle pass, fingerpass.

5)The Top spin

This spin involves the pen spinning on top of a part of the hand or a finger in a similar way to a basketball spinning. The pen will spin Example tricks: Thumbspin, palmspin, basketball spin.

6) The roll

When the pen spins as it would if you were to place it on a slanted surface and let it go. Example tricks: Arm roll, backhand tracer.

7)The Through spin

The pen is held with two fingers. The pen spins with an axis of rotatoin that lies through the two fingers. During the spin, the part of the pen in the fingers is rotated, causing the other end of the pen to move significantly. Example tricks: inifnity

8) The Air Spin

Any trick that goes in the air and spins has air spin. The air spin is just the pen spinning in the air. Example tricks: Bakriser, indexaround release, levitator

That needs a hell of a lot of improving too.

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Original Thread
thig
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 01:07:22

I propose that this topic be renamed from 'Spin Types' to 'Trick Types,' so that from 'Trick Types,' tricks with a significant amount of 'spin' and other tricks without a significant amount of spin may be placed into subcategories, such as 'Spin Types' and 'No-Spin Types', since the root of this project is to define ALL tricks, not excluding those without spin, which include stalls, 'flat' aerials, etc.
sketching
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 02:17:09

I like the idea of "Trick Type" rather than "Spin Type". That does away with the previous problems I had with Aerials that may or may not have any actual spin to them.
Mats
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 06:39:03

''8) The Air Spin

Any trick that goes in the air and spins has air spin. The air spin is just the pen spinning in the air. Example tricks: Bakriser, indexaround release, levitator''

Could then become 'The Air Trick' - 'Any trick that goes in the air. The air spin is just a trick in which the pen goes in the air. Example tricks: BakRiser, IndexAround Release, Levitator'

''6) The roll

When the pen spins as it would if you were to place it on a slanted surface and let it go. Example tricks: Arm roll, backhand tracer. ''

I think 'Sliders' could go into this catorgory. If you put a pen on a slanted surface lengthways, it would slide down due to gravity. Perhaps the roll could be 'The pen spins due to gravity, as it would if placed on a slope and let go' as then sliders fits in?
grsbmd
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 17:30:15

I'm not sure that sliders fit very neatly into the "roll" category. In the roll category, the pen isn't held at all, but the most important part of the slider is that you change where you grip the pen.

If we redefine this to be trick types, instead of spin types, we'll have to make a few new categories anyway. We may as well make one for this.

The Slide
In this trick type, the pen slides along its length without spinning. This motion can be initiated using either gravity or hand motion as the push. Example tricks: Slider.
thig
Date: Sun, Sep 16 2007 22:53:34

ok i'm kind of stealing sketching's thing here. but this is my idea.

Trick Types

Spin Categories -

Around Spin
Around Spin involves the COG of the pen moving freely around any part of the hand. Minimal amount of rotation: 0.5.

Around Spin Examples:
Thumbaround
Indexaround
Backaround
MiddleIndexaround

Conic Spin
Conic Spin involves the pen being held between two fingers, loosening and folding the appropriate finger at the precise timing will cause the ends of the pen to move in a double-cone shape. The pen does not rotate around any part of the hand.

Conic Spin Examples:
Charge
Sonic

Tipped Conic Spin
Tipped Conic Spin is a sub-set of the Conic Spin that involves the pen rotating in a flat, seesaw-like motion.

Tipped Conic Examples:
Tipped Sonic

Pass Spin
Pass Spin involves the pen being held between the fingers (two or more, depending on the trick), moving one of the fingers causes the pen to rotate (180 degrees or less). The pen is held securely by at least two fingers at all times.

Pass Spin Examples:
Pass
Triangle Pass

Top Spin
Top Spin involves the pen spinning on top of any part of the hand, similar to spinning a basketball on the fingertip.

Top Spin Examples:
Thumbspin
Palmspin
Basketball Spin

Roll Spin
Roll Spin involves the pen sliding down a slanted surface (finger, fingers, hand, arm, etc...).

Roll Spin Examples:
Arm Roll
Backhand Tracer

Through Spin
Through Spin involves the pen rotating with an axis of rotation between two fingers. The pen is held at one end and rotated by the fingers, causing the other end of the majority of the pen to move in a fan-shaped motion.

Through Spin Examples:
Wiper

Air Spin
Air Spin involves the pen rotating free from the fingers and hand after being launched from the hand.

Examples:
Bakriser
Levitator

No-Spin Categories -

Flat Air
Flat Air involves the pen freed from the fingers and hand without spinning after being launched from the hand.

Examples:
..?

Slide
Slide involves the pen sliding along its length without spinning. This motion can be initiated using either gravity or hand motion as the push.

Examples:
Slider

Stall
Stall involves the pen in suspended animation while balanced on any part of the hand.

Examples:
Cobra Bite

sorry I don't have a lot of time. that's why the new definitions are kinda strange.
Mats
Date: Thu, Sep 20 2007 02:11:49

Stall
Stall involves the pen in ~~suspended animation~~ stopping while balanced on any part of the hand.

Just seems more simple?

'Flat Air involves the pen freed from the fingers and hand without spinning after being launched from the hand.

Examples:
Any air trick that does not spin in the air'

Perhaps?

QUOTE
7)The Through spin

The pen is held with two fingers. The pen spins with an axis of rotatoin that lies through the two fingers. During the spin, the part of the pen in the fingers is rotated, causing the other end of the pen to move significantly. Example tricks: inifnity

QUOTE
Through Spin involves the pen rotating with an axis of rotation between two fingers. The pen is held at one end and rotated by the fingers, causing the other end of the majority of the pen to move in a fan-shaped motion.

I think the first one is much better. After all, what is a fan shaped motion? The majority of the pen to move seems to suggest part of the pen stays still while some of it moves, this of course is not possible. So yeah, like the top one best there. (also rotation was typed incorrectly)

We could just call all air tricks 'Air' and do away with having to have two seperate definitions. An air trick is one that goes in the air, spin or not, air is air is air.

I also think the top posts' defintion of around to be better.
xshadowfire
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 06:36:59

I propose simplifying this system since much of it is redundant. It could also be useful for breaking down individual tricks on the wiki, to allow a better understanding of the motion of the pen.
Around spin: any spin with a change in orientation and a change in finger position every 0.5 rotations if more than 0.5 is used in one trick.
It is also impossible to go over 1.0 spins with an around spin unless merged with another spin to form a hybrid.
Examples:
Pass 12-23 (0.5 Clockwise Around Spin 12-23)
Thumbaround t1-t1 (1.0 Counter-Clockwise Around Spin t1-t1)

Conic spin: any spin without a change in orientation.
Examples:
Charge
Sonic

Side spin: any spin with a change in orientation and no change in finger position.
Examples:
Wiper
Spins

Hybrid spins:
There is a big difference between hybrid spin tricks and tricks that are individual spins one after another.
for example:
Shadow 12-23 - 1.0 conic spin 0.5 around spin 12-23 hybrid
Thumbspin 1.5 t1-t1 - 0.5 around spin t1-t -> 0.5 side spin t -> 0.5 around spin t-t1
You can break the thumbspin down, but you can't break shadow down into individual blocks without creating new spin types.

Supplemental spin: for advanced naming. Basically, this is just a push.
Examples:
Thumbaround t1-t1 - 0.25 cc supplemental spin t1 -> 0.75 cc around spin t-t1(at least the way i do it)
Tipped charge - 0.5 cc supplemental spin t1 -> 0.5 c supplemental spin t1
Tipped sonic - 0.5 cc supplemental spin t1 -> finger transfer -> 0.25 cc supplemental spin t2 -> 0.25 c supplemental spin 12
Pass 23-12 - 0.25 c supplemental spin 23 -> 0.25 c supplemental spin 12(this part kind of clashes with around spin...)

Others:
These can not be classified until people get more creative, dexterous, and pen spinning as a whole evolves.
As of now, I doubt many people can easily control the exact spin type and amount of spin on these

Aerial spin: (see air spin)
Example:
Thumbaround release: 0.25 supplemental spin t1 -> x.xx aerial spin -> catch xx(finger position)

Roll: (see roll)
...do people even keep count of the rolls? too tired and lazy to think of a naming for this at the moment.

Final thoughts:
As you may have noticed, I got a bit inconsistent and contradictory after the first three spin types. This is because it wasn't exactly 100% thought out before I started typing. You probably also noticed in the supplemental spins section I had a finger transfer. I'll be working on my thoughts for transitions/transfers later, as it's already getting late.
Mats
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 14:00:39

'
QUOTE
t is also impossible to go over 1.0 spins with an around spin unless merged with another spin to form a hybrid.

If you look in the trick request thread, Eriror does a ThumbAround 1.5 and I believe Sketching did an IndexAround 1.5 in the IndexAround 2.0 discussion...
QUOTE
any spin with a change in orientation and a change in finger position every 0.5 rotations if more than 0.5 is used in one trick.

I don't think that is right either

Virtually all spin tricks would be hybrid spins. Shadow would be Charge > Spin > Around spin.

Most tricks are already named by the current spin types also. For instance, ThumbSpin, IndexSpin, PalmSpin all fit in the 'Topspin' spin type. I feel that wiper and say, fake reverse, are not trick that should go in the same spin type as you propose

'others'?

The system we have almost in place now can cover all tricks already. The changes you propose seem to over-complicate things by trying to describe exactly how the pen is moving throughout the whole trick. I liked the 'trick types' idea in which we can have the sub-catergories of 'spin types' and 'non-spin types' (maybe need a better name for that?)
sketching
Date: Thu, Feb 7 2008 02:39:23

I've changed the thread topic to "Trick Types" instead of "Spin Types".

I'm in agreement with Mats, that xshadowfire's revised system is a bit much, the current system is quite well, with maybe only a few tweaks needed. Here's a combination of thig's and Mat's above suggestions combined with a bit more tweaking from myself.

Aerial
The "Aerial" type involves the pen rotating free from the fingers and hand after being launched from the hand.

Examples:
Neo-Sonic
Bakriser
Levitator

Around
The "Around" type involves the pen moving freely around any part of the hand.

Examples:
Thumbaround
Indexaround
Backaround

Conic
The "Conic" type involves the pen being held between two fingers, loosening and moving the appropriate finger will cause the ends of the pen to move in a double-cone shape. The pen does not rotate around any part of the hand.

Examples:
Charge
Sonic

Tipped Conic
The "Tipped Conic" type involves the pen rotating in a seesaw-like motion between two fingers.

Examples:
Tipped Sonic

Pass
The "Pass" type involves the pen being held between the fingers (two or more, depending on the trick), moving one of the fingers causes the pen to rotate (no more than 180 degrees). The pen is held securely by at least two fingers at all times.

Examples:
Pass
Triangle Pass

Roll
The "Roll" type involves the pen sliding down a slanted surface (finger, fingers, hand, arm, etc...).

Examples:
Arm Roll
Backhand Tracer

Slide
The "Slide" type involves the pen sliding along its length without rotating.

Examples:
Slider

Stall
The "Stall" type involves the pen stopped while balanced on any part of the hand.

Examples:
Cobra Bite
Cobra Stall
Horn Stall

Through
The "Through" type involves the pen spinning with an axis of rotation between two fingers. The pen is held at one end, causing the other end to move in a fan-shaped motion.

Examples:
Wiper

Topspin
The "Topspin" type involves the pen spinning on top of a part of the hand or a finger, similar to spinning a basketball on the fingertip.

Examples:
Thumbspin
Palmspin
Basketball Spin
Mats
Date: Thu, Feb 7 2008 22:19:11

QUOTE
Stall
The "Stall" type involves the pen stopped while balanced on any part of the hand.

I think this should read: 'The "stall" type involves the pen being balanced on any part of the hand while the pen is stopped.' The other sentence doesn't make sense.

QUOTE
Aerial
The "Aerial" type involves the pen rotating free from the fingers and hand after being launched from the hand.

Aerial
The "Aerial" type involves the pen ~~rotating~~ being free from the fingers and hand after being launched from the hand.

I think is better since the pen does not always rotate during air tricks.

Apart from that, I think it's all straight to the point and covers everything needed!
grsbmd
Date: Thu, Feb 7 2008 22:38:23

I like it and I'd vote to release it, but there were a few minor things:

I'd change stall to: "balanced on any part of the body"
I'd change both conic and tipped conic to somehow say that the pen can, during the course of the trick, change which finger it is between. Right now it just says "between two fingers"
I'd change roll to: "the pen sliding or rolling down a slanted surface"
I'd change topsping to: "part of the hand, finger, or body"

Looks good. Good work.
sketching
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 02:02:05

Revised version...

Aerial
The "Aerial" type involves the pen being free from the fingers and hand after being launched into the air.

Examples:
Neo-Sonic
Bakriser
Levitator

Around
The "Around" type involves the pen moving freely around any part of the hand.

Examples:
Thumbaround
Indexaround
Backaround

Conic
The "Conic" type involves the pen being held between two fingers, loosening and moving the appropriate finger will cause the ends of the pen to move in a double-cone shape. The pen does not rotate around any part of the hand, but can move between finger slots during certain tricks.

Examples:
Charge
Sonic

Tipped Conic
The "Tipped Conic" type involves the pen rotating in a seesaw-like motion between two fingers.

Examples:
Tipped Sonic

Pass
The "Pass" type involves the pen being held between the fingers (two or more, depending on the trick), moving one of the fingers causes the pen to rotate (no more than 180 degrees). The pen is held securely by at least two fingers at all times.

Examples:
Pass
Triangle Pass

Roll
The "Roll" type involves the pen sliding down a slanted surface (finger, fingers, hand, arm, etc...).

Examples:
Arm Roll
Backhand Tracer

Slide
The "Slide" type involves the pen sliding along its length without rotating.

Examples:
Slider

Stall
The "Stall" type involves the pen balanced on any part of the body.

Examples:
Cobra Bite
Cobra Stall
Horn Stall

Through
The "Through" type involves the pen spinning with an axis of rotation between two fingers. The pen is held at one end, causing the other end to move in a fan-shaped motion.

Examples:
Wiper

Topspin
The "Topspin" type involves the pen spinning on top of any part of the body or hand, similar to spinning a basketball on the fingertip.

Examples:
Thumbspin
Palmspin
Basketball Spin
Mats
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 09:35:38

QUOTE
The "Stall" type involves the pen balanced on any part of the body.

The "Stall" type involves the pen being still while balanced on any part of the body.

Because a stall involves the pen being motionless I think this should be explicit in the description.

Also, with roll, I was just thinking - The surface is not always slanted. I think it should read:

'The "Roll" type involves the pen sliding or rolling due to gravity or previous push force.;

For example, an Arm Roll can be done by throwing the pen from the other hand straight onto the arm. The arm will be straight but the roll spin type is being used.

I think the rest is great!