UPSB v3
Philosophy / Practice
Do you think so?
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Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 08:44:15
Yeah, I'm thinking that during the practice of a trick, you drop the pen ALOT. When you drop, isnt it possible that your fingers get used to the drop, and figure out a way to avoid dropping it? What I am saying is, do the fingers learn from their mistakes.
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Date: Mon, Oct 15 2007 08:57:51
I would say its your mind controlling your fingers and figuring out how not to drop the pen. Subconsciously.
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Date: Sat, Oct 20 2007 02:53:39
yes I think the learn alone is like a modification when animals evolve
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Date: Sat, Oct 20 2007 03:49:15
Your fingers dont learn from mistakes. Your brain learns from your mistakes and as a result adjusts the movement of your fingers until you finally find the correct movements to do the trick.
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Date: Sat, Oct 20 2007 06:14:12
I think the same way as K4S, your brain knows that you have done it wrong, so it tries not to do what it did wrong again.
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Date: Sat, Oct 20 2007 17:45:27
Yet some movements need to be so precise that they can't be executed without controlling them to the fullest. Dropping the pen several times untill your mind automatically adjusts your movement isn't always enough.
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Date: Sat, Oct 20 2007 21:26:16QUOTE (Sfsr @ Oct 20 2007, 01:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yet some movements need to be so precise that they can't be executed without controlling them to the fullest. Dropping the pen several times untill your mind automatically adjusts your movement isn't always enough.
So you're suggesting your fingers can adjust themselves for more precise spinning? Because that is false. There are some body reflexes (movement) that are not controlled by the brain; for example, your knee-jerk reflex. However, the hand/finger movements for penspinning are solely controlled by your brain. Fingers dont have indepenent control. -
Date: Sun, Oct 21 2007 01:23:25
Exactly. Your mind has to control your fingers precisely to perform the trick. After doing the trick many times its gets integrated in your "muscle memory".
Then you can do it effortlessly..
(seems a bit like bad english to me, I'm Greenlandic, but I think u get my opinion) -
Date: Sun, Oct 21 2007 17:37:17QUOTE (K4S @ Oct 20 2007, 11:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>So you're suggesting your fingers can adjust themselves for more precise spinning? Because that is false. There are some body reflexes (movement) that are not controlled by the brain; for example, your knee-jerk reflex. However, the hand/finger movements for penspinning are solely controlled by your brain. Fingers dont have indepenent control.
I meant that you can't just hope for your mind to automatically adjust to the movements, you actually need to focus on making the right motions. -
Date: Sun, Oct 21 2007 18:08:30
Your mind does know the difference between a correct trick and a false one, thats how you learn. Neat fact though; in order to do something repeatedly you have to do it correctly 7 times in a row to solidify the concept in your subconscious.
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Date: Sun, Oct 21 2007 19:04:36
Let's say BackAround Fall. If you would do it and drop, time after time after time, you might never succeed in doing it. If you consciously move your fingers in the right pattern, catch the pen as you should, let it slide to the next slot, give it another push, then you learn the way you move your fingers, not how you're not supposed to move them (which you would learn by just doing the trick and dropping it).
What I am saying is, you need to control your fingermovement precise to learn certain tricks, not just learn by dropping. -
Date: Thu, Nov 1 2007 09:26:57
i think that you're fingers aren't used the movement that is used to spin the pen. so you have to do the trick many times, and drop the pen many times before you're fingers get used to that movement.
BD -
Date: Mon, Nov 5 2007 17:00:23
You become more skilled at catching the pen, but I doubt that you learn drop avoidance for each specific scenario.
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Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 02:18:51
Practice ALWAYS makes ALMOST perfect.
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Date: Sat, Nov 17 2007 05:13:17
I think that dropping your pen a lot does not cause one to learn from their mistakes automatically because I would do the same thing over and over again in class when learning the shadow, but I also have to think about the lesson too so i wouldn't be thinking about the "correct" way to do it and would just do something that is similar but not correct. So I kept on dropping it and at the end of class, I dont' believe I became any better. It's not like my fingers can think. But already knowing a trick and then doing it, i think that you dont' need your brain after doing the trick so many times. I would do the thumb around harmonic all the time in class and barely even realize it.
Oh, here's another example (from a movie: Once upon a time in china and america (yeah...asian movies...)). Amazing martial artist falls into a river and gets amnesia. He doesn't remember a thing, but when some guy threatens him and assaults him, his body automatically moved and destroyed the guy. Although it was a movie, I feel that this is true and that when one does things enough times it will just become memory for your muscles, and brain as well. -
Date: Sat, Nov 17 2007 10:41:46
Ok here's what I've got - I penspin for like 3-4 weeks and I don't think of it most of the time. For example I've been learning Harmonic TA and I just kept spinning trough lessons without focusing on it (you know what I mean). To the topic - I really think you can learn this, I am surprised that you don't - when I learn a trick, I automaticly learn to not make it fall down... (its not 100% ofc..)
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Date: Tue, Nov 20 2007 01:49:16
I believe that it will become a habit if u keep doing it subconsiously without trying 2 fix it. i think that even if u mess up but ur actually trying 2 fix it ur mind is gonna remember that what u did was not rite and make sure its not the same the next time u try to do it
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Date: Tue, Nov 20 2007 07:23:08
So does one learn from the drops, from the succesful catches or from both?
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Date: Thu, Aug 14 2008 12:26:36
Why can i not vote? I think practice is the key for anything.
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Date: Thu, Aug 14 2008 13:23:38
u need 20 posts i think
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Date: Thu, Aug 14 2008 21:13:45
I agree, but my reflexes have gotten better, because I just catch it in midair when I drop it (I stand a lot when I spin).