UPSB v3
Naming Committee / [project][5.7] Definition Of A Pen
Project brainstorm, requests, discussion
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Date: Sat, Jun 16 2007 07:23:52
A lot of people are making mods now, and it also seems pens are getting longer and longer. A definition of pen is needed here. Do we need to set limits on length? Are there other things we should limit? What is acceptable to use as a spinning pen?
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Original Thread -
Date: Wed, Apr 9 2008 11:14:58
Sorry to revive, but in the RD I guess revival of old topic is needed somehow
For my part, I would welcom limits on length to define a pen. I would set them as follow :
-oo >----bullshit---[8cm-----pen-----25cm]-----stick-------> +oo
25cm is already fucking long for a pen, but I doubt that some will accept to reduce their mod length to match a lower limit. -
Date: Wed, Apr 9 2008 22:39:27
a better idea to me is to classify using "ranks"
like lightweight, middleweight, heavyweight in boxing
or
car classes, mini, standard, pickup, compact, luxury, convertible, etc. -
Date: Thu, Apr 10 2008 13:14:54
So where do we set the limits on classifications? Should we decide one certain length is 'standard', perhaps roughly that of the MX and slightly above. 18 - <21cm could perhaps be 'standard' and then you would have short for 18 or less, long for 21-<24 and 24cm+ being very long?
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Date: Fri, Apr 11 2008 14:32:31
I think the first step would be to find all types of pens in the world and find the extremities of each spectrum. For example, find the shortest, skinniest pen and record those dimensions. Then find the shortest, fattest pen and record that. Do the same for the longest (skinniest and fattest). That way, we at least have a workable spectrum.
I think this is a good method because we are using just regular pens, so the definition of a "pen" isn't compromised.
Some other issues that arise include:- The use of markers, highlighters, pencils
- Categories of x-capped pens
- Ability to write: existence vs. stripped existence
- Grips used: liberal vs. minimalistic
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Date: Fri, Apr 11 2008 14:49:16QUOTE (Eso @ Apr 11 2008, 03:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think the first step would be to find all types of pens in the world and find the extremities of each spectrum. For example, find the shortest, skinniest pen and record those dimensions. Then find the shortest, fattest pen and record that. Do the same for the longest (skinniest and fattest). That way, we at least have a workable spectrum.
I think this is a good method because we are using just regular pens, so the definition of a "pen" isn't compromised.
Some other issues that arise include:- The use of markers, highlighters, pencils
- Categories of x-capped pens
- Ability to write: existence vs. stripped existence
- Grips used: liberal vs. minimalistic
I think that method has a crucial flaw. Almost all pens used for pen spinning are significantly longer (and heavier) than 'normal' pens. I think pen spining pens will fall out of the spectrum for the most part, so we need to use modded pens too. Using very common and accepted pens shouldn't compromise definition of a pen, for instance, the MX and comssa. Markers and highlighters are surely just pens? -
Date: Fri, Apr 11 2008 15:44:39
With length, weigth and "fatness" of the pen, maybe the amount of grips used, too, we've got at least three interesting criterias to describe modded pens...As for x-capping and possibility of writing, I'm not sure they should be used as criterias to sort spinning pens...I mean, this would reduce the width of categories dramatically, and I'm not sure they are as important for the spinning abilities as the weigth, length, fatness. It's all a matter of taste, and I guess that the best models are to be naturally selected, and the others forgotten...As a matter of fact, single-capped pens survive only through the fantastic MX series and some unmodded pens...So, as for x-capping and writing abilities, let's just consider them as optional when classifying pens...
Plus, if we want to do some diagram, it will be hard with more than 3 dimensions. This argument is a load of bullshit, I totally agree.
Edit : agreeing with Mats, we're not only classifying unmodded pens. -
Date: Fri, Apr 11 2008 19:08:41
Ah, that's the one thing that wasn't clarified early on in this thread. Did we want to set the definition of a "pen" or the definition of a "spinning pen"?
You see, if you just say "pen" by itself, then that could be confused with all pens of all shapes and sizes. There are always exceptions, such as the huge pen bonkura used in one video. -
Date: Fri, Apr 11 2008 19:43:48
Mats originally started the topic talking about pen mods. It makes sense to just stick to classifying pen mods, if anything, not to include stock pens. This topic was started by arguments of whether mods like the Compirat were still considered pens, so I assume that the goal of the thread would be to discuss how far modding goes before the mod is no longer a pen.
IMO, as soon as a stock pen is modified, it is no longer a normal pen and is instead simply a "pen mod" and it no longer matters if the "pen mod" is a proper "pen" or not. You've already changed it's intended nature, no need to argue any more.
Should "pen mods" be given classifications? Beyond things like basic shapes, retractability, I don't see a great need. Length preference seems to be very wide-ranging, even among people with similar hands. Trying to get a relative system for that criterium seems a waste to me. While 8cm is extremely short, I don't see a reason to outright say something small is useless. The same goes for longer mods.
Giving basic categories of weight could work, similar to what Zombo said above. -
Date: Sat, Apr 12 2008 01:12:40
to me a class of pens shouldnt be defined by weight or anything objective, but rather "feel".
In other words, all pens belonging to one class "feel" the similar way when spun
it's more vague, but it's also more sensible way to describe. -
Date: Sat, Apr 12 2008 20:44:40
But that mean you got to try them by yourself to be sure of their class...This means a new pen would mean an official committee to class it, otherwise everybody should try it to know its class, and still, they could disagree about it... Apart from this detail, I agree it would be a simple ans clever way to sort pen mods. Your analogy with car-classes sounded good to me.
Sketching, I don't think very long or short "pens" are useless, but when judging about a penspinning video, if you know a bit about the art, you can't help including the pen shape in your statement ( and sometimes the pen itself, not only the class, like some use to say that everything is easier with a Dr. KT ). That would be the mean to create a definition, and different classes inside...Sure, if you don't intent to use the classes at least for that matter, they are not remote from uselessness. -
Date: Tue, Jun 17 2008 00:24:41
I think it would be better to create a general definition of a pen before classifying pens so that we know what we're classifying. If we classify a pen and later decide that it isn't a pen after all, we have wasted time.
If we are to do this, a good place to start may be to decide whether or not a pen should write.