UPSB v3
Advanced Tricks / Backaround Fall Thread
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Date: Tue, Oct 16 2007 01:43:54
Ok, so i've been practicing Back fall. I have no problems doing index around and middle around. Problems come up during my ring and pinky.
My middle finger doesn't curl up
so im like omfg. if i try to do it curled it doesnt come out smooth cause it takes too long to curl it up. if i do it outstreched my middle finger just hits the pen back.... pinky i can do sometimes, but its because i kind of flick it in the air 
but really my pinky around has no COG at all. Do I flick my wrist, or do some kind of hand movement? Also is it always done hand face down or can i do it with my hand semi-hand down?
Is the breakdown: index around 12-12~pass 12-23>mid aound 23-23~pass 23-34>etc....
do i catch with just the finger its going around or both fingers started out with?
I kno it's a lot to answer but please help.
-Aries -
Date: Tue, Oct 16 2007 02:35:52
Backaround 12-23 > Backaround 23-34 > Backaround 34-T1
or
Backaround 12-23 > Backaround 23-34 > Backaround 34-4 > Handaround 4-T1
Non-Backaround Fall is...
Fingerless Indexaround Reverse 12-12 > Pass 12-23 > Fingerless Middlearound Reverse 23-23 > Pass 23-34 > Fingerless Ringaround Reverse 34-34 > Fingerless Pinkyaround Reverse 34-34 -
Date: Tue, Oct 16 2007 03:45:32
I thought it was...
Backaround 12-12 > Fl Pass 12-23 > Middle Backaround 23-23 > Fl Pass 23-34 > Ring Backaround 34-34 > Pinky Backaround 34-34
That's how I do it. Have I been doing my backfalls the wrong way this whole time? I've been practicing backfalls for a month-ish now. -
Date: Tue, Oct 16 2007 04:31:04
i believe backaroundfall and bakfall are different
bakfall involves the korean bak (fl around reverses)
i think sketching was just pointing out different backaround falls
i for one am still trying to learn the bakfall
god help my if i try a backaround fall
corrent me if im wrong. -
Date: Tue, Oct 16 2007 04:48:19
man bakfall is so hard to get it smooth its been a month and i still cant get it smooth
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Date: Tue, Oct 16 2007 05:56:22
I can get bakfall smooth up to mid bak and pinky bak. i keep having to adjust the pen.
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Date: Tue, Oct 16 2007 23:05:03
So a backaround fall and bakfall are different? Really?
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Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 00:52:58
bak = Backaround = "Weissian" Backaround
Bak Fall = Backaround Fall = combo of Backarounds
Korean Indexbak 12-12 = Fingerless Indexaround Reverse
Korean Middlebak 23-23 = Fingerless Middlearound Reverse
Korean Ringbak 34-34 = Fingerless Ringaround Reverse
Korean Pinkybak 34-34 = Fingerless Pinkyaround Reverse
Korean Backaround Fall != Backaround Fall...there are no Backarounds involved. It's a combo of Fingerarounds + Passes. -
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 00:56:36QUOTE (sketching @ Oct 16 2007, 05:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
bak = Backaround = "Weissian" Backaround
Bak Fall = Backaround Fall = combo of Backarounds
Korean Indexbak 12-12 = Fingerless Indexaround Reverse
Korean Middlebak 23-23 = Fingerless Middlearound Reverse
Korean Ringbak 34-34 = Fingerless Ringaround Reverse
Korean Pinkybak 34-34 = Fingerless Pinkyaround Reverse
Korean Backaround Fall != Backaround Fall...there are no Backarounds involved. It's a combo of Fingerarounds + Passes.
If so, I've never seen anyone do a Bakfall. -
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 04:57:43
imo korean baks should stop being compared to FL IA rev, the fact that they go around the index finger, but stay parallel to the ground makes them feel like a backaround, and pretty much look like one.. and besides, if anyone told me to do a FL IA rev, it wouldnt look like a korean bak, I would hold the pen in 12, have my palm facing me, and swing my hand towards the ceiling, so the pen is parallel to the walls at my sides rather then the floor.. just call it a korean bakfall if you feel it's important to point out it's not a weissen bak..
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Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 05:21:05
Then we should totally have different names for Fingerless Thumbarounds Reverse that are parallel to the ground and Fingerless Thumbarounds Reverse that are parallel to the walls.
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Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 06:25:31
no we don't, because they are the same.. my p.o.v is, don't make a mess where it's unnecessary.. and it looks like you're pushing for that mess.. everyone knows what a korean bak means so just leave it at that,,
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Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 06:31:19
I'm pushing to get rid of a mess that is not needed. There's no need to tricks to have more than one name.
If a horizontal FL TA Rev does not need a different name, then a horizontal FL FA Rev does not need a different name (Korean Bak). I do not see why we have kept a misnamed trick. PenDolSa members mistakenly did the wrong trick when trying to learn Backaround, instead of using the correct name, we have two names for the same trick with a different pen orientation. -
Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 07:34:50
korean FL TA
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Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 13:37:30QUOTE (sketching @ Oct 17 2007, 02:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I'm pushing to get rid of a mess that is not needed. There's no need to tricks to have more than one name.
If a horizontal FL TA Rev does not need a different name, then a horizontal FL FA Rev does not need a different name (Korean Bak). I do not see why we have kept a misnamed trick. PenDolSa members mistakenly did the wrong trick when trying to learn Backaround, instead of using the correct name, we have two names for the same trick with a different pen orientation.
While I agree, I do think that FL IA Rev > Pass 12-23 > FL MA Rev > Pass 23-34 > FL RA Rev > FL PA Rev takes too long to write. The current Bakfall would probably known as the Fingerless Around Rev Fall.
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Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 13:51:53
FL Around Reverses go around a finger perpenicular to that finger. Baks go around on an angle. Therefore: Bakfall =/= FL Reverse Around Fall.
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Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 20:21:54QUOTE (nateiskewl @ Oct 17 2007, 06:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>FL Around Reverses go around a finger perpenicular to that finger. Baks go around on an angle. Therefore: Bakfall =/= FL Reverse Around Fall.
Using that logic, a Thumbaround that starts on the outside base of the thumb that is pushed with the side of the middle finger and is often not perpendicular to the Thumb and not performed at the tip may as well a seperate name from a Thumbaround that is performed at the tip of the thumb pushed using the bottom of the middle finger that spins perpendicular to the Thumb. The first may as well be called an Outside Thumbaround while the second may as well be called an Inside Thumbaround.
If that seems excessive to you, then you know how I feel about a FL IA Rev being called a Backaround simply because it is performed horizontal.
@nateiskewl: Unless I'm mistaken, early "Korean" Baks were always performed perpendicular to the finger. It was the actual Backaround that had the new angle to the finger as it was performed parallel to the floor and was at a much more acute angle to the finger.
Edit: early Korean Baks has a slight tilt to the pen, but nowhere near horizontal. -
Date: Thu, Oct 18 2007 22:58:43
Sketching's right. Perhaps the NC should work on a name?
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Date: Wed, Oct 24 2007 02:59:24
Alright hello everybody = D I have 2 questions about the backaroundfall. My first question is how to like the index back to the mid back and my second question is about the ring back. The ring back is the only back i cannot do. Does anyone have a vid of how to hold and how to link them? Thanks
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Date: Wed, Oct 24 2007 03:01:45
You do a fingerless pass from index to middle.
just swing it, like in the infinity combo. And Ring bak is the same as all of them, just practice until you have enough dexterity to lift your ring higher. -
Date: Wed, Oct 24 2007 03:06:53
merged, let's keep only 1 thread per combo/trick.
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Date: Sat, Feb 16 2008 13:44:41
What's the difference between a backaround fall and a neobak fall? Is there any? (additional: korean bak fall if there is one) @_@
My still untrained eye can't find any difference in the vids.
Thanks
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Date: Sat, Feb 16 2008 17:00:29
hmm wait
neobackfall : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pltyQFxIW94
backfall : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZWjVsbM3jI
the neobackfall doesn't go around the fingers, it always stays on top on the fingers
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Date: Sat, Feb 16 2008 18:50:36
Uhm, ok. Thanks for the vids but...
I still didn't get it LOL
Any clear descriptions on the difference? @_@ -
Date: Sat, Feb 16 2008 19:26:13
The neobak fall includes Neobackarounds, and fingerless passes.
The backaround fall includes backarounds and regular passes. So with the neobak fall, the pen does not go around your finger, it does one rotation on the top of your finger, then you use a fingerless pass to the next neobak and so on.
In the backaround fall, you typically use a fingerless shadow reverse (aka korean bak). So when you perform the backaround (aka fingerless shadow rev. or korean bak) for the backaround fall, you will catch the backaround in the 12 slot. So basically your hand should be above the COP line. So then you PASS it to the 23 slot and perform another backaround, and so on and so on.
I hope that made sense, if not try watching Eso's tutorials. He breaks it down perfectly. -
Date: Sat, Feb 16 2008 20:18:56QUOTE (k2thez @ Feb 17 2008, 08:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>In the backaround fall, you typically use a fingerless shadow reverse (aka korean bak).
Don't you mean Fingerless Indexaround Reverse? A Fingerless shadow reverse would be like a neobak.
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Date: Sat, Feb 16 2008 20:27:29
Hmmm youre not only one who got problems with ringbak :\
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Date: Sat, Feb 16 2008 20:43:10QUOTE (Rorix @ Feb 16 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Don't you mean Fingerless Indexaround Reverse? A Fingerless shadow reverse would be like a neobak.
Yeah, I meant FL IA reverse, I got them mixed up. -
Date: Sat, Feb 16 2008 21:27:04
so there's no such thing as a pinky neobak o.0...? cause i ddint' see one in that video posted up there
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Date: Sat, Feb 16 2008 21:45:17QUOTE (-JC- @ Feb 16 2008, 04:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>so there's no such thing as a pinky neobak o.0...? cause i ddint' see one in that video posted up there
I guess I'd look at it like this, neobaks always go to the finger slot on the right(if you're left handed then it goes to the left slot). You'll start in backaround position, and when you do a neobak 12-12, it goes from t1 to 12. If you did a neobak 23-23, it would go from backaround position t1 to 23. Since there's no slot after the pinky, there's no PinkyNeobackaround. -
Date: Sun, Feb 17 2008 10:01:10
Bloody NeoBakFall is way harder than BakFall.
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Date: Sun, Feb 17 2008 21:22:17QUOTE (AntonWebsters @ Feb 17 2008, 02:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Bloody NeoBakFall is way harder than BakFall.
It's uglier too. :]
Bakfall > Neobak Fall anyday -
Date: Sun, Feb 17 2008 21:26:44QUOTE (Look Into the Sun @ Feb 17 2008, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It's uglier too. :]
Bakfall > Neobak Fall anyday
Lies, Look Into the Sun, lies. Neobak fall looks a lot better than the Bakfall. -
Date: Sun, Feb 17 2008 21:30:59
it's all just preference
bakfall=more rotations
neobakfall=strange linkage -
Date: Tue, Feb 19 2008 22:52:17
@moderators
Should comments on the BakFall 1.5 go here? -
Date: Wed, Feb 20 2008 01:02:49QUOTE (Xero @ Feb 19 2008, 05:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>@moderators
Should comments on the BakFall 1.5 go here?
you can make a new thread, but it has to be about bakfall 1.5 or more, and it has to deal specifically with tips to make multiple spins easier, not the basic mechanism. -
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 11:20:42QUOTE (Aries @ Oct 16 2007, 01:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ok, so i've been practicing Back fall. I have no problems doing index around and middle around. Problems come up during my ring and pinky.
My middle finger doesn't curl up
so im like omfg. if i try to do it curled it doesnt come out smooth cause it takes too long to curl it up. if i do it outstreched my middle finger just hits the pen back.... pinky i can do sometimes, but its because i kind of flick it in the air but really my pinky around has no COG at all. Do I flick my wrist, or do some kind of hand movement? Also is it always done hand face down or can i do it with my hand semi-hand down?
Is the breakdown: index around 12-12~pass 12-23>mid aound 23-23~pass 23-34>etc....
do i catch with just the finger its going around or both fingers started out with?
I kno it's a lot to answer but please help.
-Aries
if you sa index around and mdle around you don't need to say 12-12 and 23-23
lolQUOTE (Xero @ Feb 19 2008, 10:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>@moderators
Should comments on the BakFall 1.5 go here?
i'm not a moderator but why not?this IS a bakfall thread -
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 12:11:40
ummm. isn't he talking about aroundfall not bakfall?
cause bakfall uses baks, not arounds -
Date: Sat, Mar 22 2008 08:10:36
man i am so fucking confused...
what i do with my bakfall is
bak 12-12-->fl pass 12-23-->mid bak 23-23-->fl pass 23-34-->ring bak 34-34-->fl pass 34-34--> pinky bak....
but u said the CURRENT bakfall is FL reverse around fall. i am really confused. so what is the real BACKAROUND FALL/BAKFALL???does the baks have to be weis backarounds? -
Date: Sat, Mar 22 2008 08:17:51
what the fuck is a fl pass 34-34, lol
and what people mean by calling it reverse around fall, is that korean backaround is actually a reverse around
not many people do real bakfalls, with wessian baks, but reverse arounds fall (korean baks) -
Date: Tue, Apr 29 2008 07:03:36
Okay I'm getting confused. Do you mean there's 2 types of backaround falls? The korean and weis? But I thought sketching said korean backaround fall = backaround fall?
Another thing I'm confused, I see people doing different type "backaround fall" some of the backaround falls go near the tip of the fingers and at an angle while some go around the middle of the finger near horizontal. So is it counted as a "different backaround fall"? Or it's just the same backaround fall just at different positions?? -
Date: Thu, May 1 2008 18:51:32
They're probably both bak falls, just the spinners didn't do the baks exactly the same.
I don't think a weis backaround fall exists because the pen needs to travel to the T1 slot. -
Date: Thu, May 1 2008 22:03:28
That's just how a Weis Backaround was originally defined, but the majority of people say it can pass through any slot, it just needs to touch the back of your hand. And why wouldn't it exist if it passes through T1?
Backaround 12-T1-23 > Backaround 23-T1-34 > Backaround 34-T1-34 -
Date: Thu, May 8 2008 13:41:23
You wanna see some GG back fall? Watch this My GG BaK Fall
Maybe you guys can get help from there?
Laterr -
Date: Tue, Jul 1 2008 21:31:28
one question:
is this bakfall good?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDTUy7DQ9To
i spin about 5 month, what should i do better? -
Date: Tue, Jul 1 2008 21:45:23
nice, i gottta learn bakfall too
any tips (ring bak is a pain) -
Date: Tue, Jul 1 2008 21:57:49
i got a question:
is there a backaround rise?does it exist?i can't imagine how it works
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Date: Tue, Jul 1 2008 22:28:25
You can do Bak Rev rise but i'm really not sure about Bak rise cuz i'm not sure how you would link the baks together smoothly.
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Date: Tue, Jul 1 2008 22:43:15QUOTE (Silvos @ Jul 1 2008, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i got a question:
is there a backaround rise?does it exist?i can't imagine how it works
If you mean bak rev rise like tylt said, here's a vid: http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=GPsvNT2O5v8 -
Date: Sun, Aug 31 2008 04:29:23
Hey guys, I've been practicing Bak Fall or w/e you wanna call it (Korean Bak fall) and I was wondering if I should practice all the Korean Baks individually or just keep attempting Bak Fall. I've done it pretty smooth a few times, but still mess up on ring/pinky bak sometimes. If I practice them individually I'd be doing more pinky/ring baks, but wouldn't be practicing the linking at all, so what do you guys suggest?
Thanks ~ -
Date: Sun, Aug 31 2008 04:44:35
Well, why not do both?
You'll wind up mastering the RingBak and PinkyBak and the BakFall entirely. -
Date: Sun, Aug 31 2008 04:47:05QUOTE (Xero @ Aug 31 2008, 02:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Well, why not do both?
You'll wind up mastering the RingBak and PinkyBak and the BakFall entirely.
lol, I didn't consider that, thanks for the tip. =P
EDIT: Oh yeah, all the bakfall vids I've seen, people generally do it palm down, when I do it it seems to be more palm side? Is that wrong? -
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 16:47:04
I have a question about Bakfall 1.5. I'm using Buster CYL and it's hard to do it with this pen. My pen is slipping too much while spinning at top. What pen do you suggest for bakfall 1.5?
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Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 17:59:25QUOTE (crinix @ Feb 27 2010, 10:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I have a question about Bakfall 1.5. I'm using Buster CYL and it's hard to do it with this pen. My pen is slipping too much while spinning at top. What pen do you suggest for bakfall 1.5?
1. Break the buster in half.
2. Make an MX
3. Spin that
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Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 19:53:48
Yah because bakfall 1.5 with an mx is easier then with a buster?
no.
This happened to me when I was learning backfall 1.0 just keep practicing and kinda move your hand to keep it from sliding off. Eventually it will get easier and easier and stop slipping.
EDIT: I would use a waterfall or CK mod. -
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 19:57:41QUOTE (crinix @ Feb 27 2010, 08:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I have a question about Bakfall 1.5. I'm using Buster CYL and it's hard to do it with this pen. My pen is slipping too much while spinning at top. What pen do you suggest for bakfall 1.5?
If you can't do it with a buster I doubt you'll be able to do it with any other pen. Just keep practicing. Technique > pen -
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 21:31:24QUOTE (AwonW @ Feb 27 2010, 02:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>If you can't do it with a buster I doubt you'll be able to do it with any other pen. Just keep practicing. Technique > pen
But the point is its slipping too much, i asked because maybe there is an ideal for bak +1.5 series. I already dont say i'll be able to with another pen. I just wanted to know your suggestions. I'll keep practice with Buster for now... -
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 21:58:01QUOTE (crinix @ Feb 27 2010, 01:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>But the point is its slipping too much, i asked because maybe there is an ideal for bak +1.5 series. I already dont say i'll be able to with another pen. I just wanted to know your suggestions. I'll keep practice with Buster for now...
Try using a mod with a comss body or something.. I think they're less slippery. -
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 23:14:34
i never use comssas with stickers for things like bakfall or bak variations, i always use them without. more control
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Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 23:59:39QUOTE (Kirby @ Feb 27 2010, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yah because bakfall 1.5 with an mx is easier then with a buster?
when did I even say that? -
Date: Sun, Feb 28 2010 00:05:55
You did when you advised him to use an rsvpmx...
Iliekyurspam. Keepitinthecan.
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Date: Thu, Mar 25 2010 00:08:20
and when you go to the ring finger, does the pen go between the ring finger and pinky while doing the ring finger around? what about the pinky around one???
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Date: Thu, Mar 25 2010 17:02:48
ring bak is kinda harder than pinky bak...
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Date: Thu, Mar 25 2010 17:10:17QUOTE (tic @ Mar 25 2010, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>ring bak is kinda harder than pinky bak...
yeah, because ring finger doesn't have good independent movement.. -
Date: Tue, Apr 27 2010 21:34:13
My first backfall!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KENiDeDLiHU -
Date: Tue, Apr 27 2010 21:36:04QUOTE (Nation @ Mar 25 2010, 12:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>yeah, because ring finger doesn't have good independent movement..
Is there any way to change this?? Make it more flexible or "independent"? -
Date: Tue, Apr 27 2010 21:43:41QUOTE (Kirby @ Apr 27 2010, 04:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Is there any way to change this?? Make it more flexible or "independent"?
Practice a lot. lol
but seriously just practice you'll get it