UPSB v3
Trading / Buying / Rules for auctions?
are needed..
-
Date: Fri, Jan 30 2009 04:39:16
Ok.. since there have been and are a lot of auctions lately (which is great!!) I think there need to be some rules to avoid problems with auctions (that will sooner or later occur on UPSB...for sure) Sme suggestions...:
~> No reserves! This is like teh ultimate rip-off... Unless you post the reserve legibly somewhere, don't do it. If you want to have a certain amount for your pens use that as a STARTING BID. But reserves...are just no-no since you can easily make them up. So Starting bid=Reserve
~> Auction ending date in title. Moderators should watch out so that nobody changes the ending date just because he doesn't have enough bids or w/e reason. So... Time (Time zone) + Date in title and thread.
~> No "Sold per PM". Don't sell things per PM when people are bidding on it in public...think about it...it's just not nice. And also
~> This one might be clear but anyways.. You HAVE TO sell the item when the auction ends! REGARDLESS of the amount of money that had been bet on it.
~> Don't remove an item from an auction unless nobody has bed on it.
~> No bids per PM?
Just suggestions... since auctions have become popular... (for a goo dreason hahaha) -
Date: Fri, Jan 30 2009 04:43:27
How about a buyout price.
Meaning if you offer this amount, it's yours. Wait.. that would defeat the purpose of the auction.. -
Date: Fri, Jan 30 2009 04:52:51QUOTE (Glamouraz @ Jan 29 2009, 09:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>How about a buyout price.
Meaning if you offer this amount, it's yours. Wait.. that would defeat the purpose of the auction..
Nono^^ You're completely right. Buyout prices should be added too...I mean you CAN add them if you want. But...as a general rule...no Buyouts per PM. Post in the thread.
Maybe? -
Date: Fri, Jan 30 2009 05:04:16QUOTE (FripメECツ @ Jan 29 2009, 08:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>~> No reserves! This is like teh ultimate rip-off... Unless you post the reserve legibly somewhere, don't do it. If you want to have a certain amount for your pens use that as a STARTING BID. But reserves...are just no-no since you can easily make them up. So Starting bid=Reserve
Well, setting a reserve might work if there were some electronic system like eBay, that allows you to set a reserve. If the reserve not met, I believe you have the option of taking it down, selling it anyways, or re-auctioning it. -
Date: Fri, Jan 30 2009 05:12:32
Keep in mind that titles can be modified as well.
I just say that auctions should only be given a max limit of 1 week, anything over is just milking it.
Buyout Prices would be nice as well. It just can't be completely outrageous
There should be consequences for people who false bid just to raise the price.
Example: If the person decides to bid sarcastically, and ends up winning, then denies the win, the auction winner becomes the previous bidder
and then the false bidder gets a -1 onto his feedback and a warning from the mods. This incident has happened to me a few times.
Those are just some of my recommendations -
Date: Fri, Jan 30 2009 11:16:39
Also this
etc. two traders live in singapore. one trader (Person A) is selling a mod. Person B(2nd trader) places the highest bid on the mod and becomes the buyer.
However, As Person A wants to make more money, he charges Person B SHIPPING FEE even though they live in the same country and can meet up easily.
Shouldnt trades in a small country where the two can meet up easily be non-inclusive of shipping fee unless its sent by mail too? -
Date: Fri, Jan 30 2009 14:14:55QUOTE (XternalメDGN @ Jan 30 2009, 05:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Also this
etc. two traders live in singapore. one trader (Person A) is selling a mod. Person B(2nd trader) places the highest bid on the mod and becomes the buyer.
However, As Person A wants to make more money, he charges Person B SHIPPING FEE even though they live in the same country and can meet up easily.
Shouldnt trades in a small country where the two can meet up easily be non-inclusive of shipping fee unless its sent by mail too?
That is off-topic, that's a personal issue more than anything else specific to Singapore.
Shipping fees should be a just a constant flat rate unless over a certain weight limit. -
Date: Fri, Jan 30 2009 14:51:49QUOTE (iMatt @ Jan 30 2009, 10:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>That is off-topic, that's a personal issue more than anything else specific to Singapore.
Shipping fees should be a just a constant flat rate unless over a certain weight limit.
its also referring to trades within the same country.. if the 2 traders are close enough to do a hand to hand exchange -
Date: Fri, Jan 30 2009 15:18:21QUOTE (Sian_ing @ Jan 30 2009, 10:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>its also referring to trades within the same country.. if the 2 traders are close enough to do a hand to hand exchange
exactly. if they are close enough to do a personal exchange, should a shipping fee be included if they actually meet up and change the items hand byhand and not over mailing -
Date: Fri, Jan 30 2009 15:26:21
I don't think that has anything to do with auctioning anymore. More towards regular trading.
-
Date: Fri, Jan 30 2009 15:48:51QUOTE (Glamouraz @ Jan 30 2009, 10:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I don't think that has anything to do with auctioning anymore. More towards regular trading.
auctioning still has a shipping fee.. its the same thing anyway -
Date: Fri, Jan 30 2009 17:21:33QUOTE (XternalメDGN @ Jan 30 2009, 06:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Also this
etc. two traders live in singapore. one trader (Person A) is selling a mod. Person B(2nd trader) places the highest bid on the mod and becomes the buyer.
However, As Person A wants to make more money, he charges Person B SHIPPING FEE even though they live in the same country and can meet up easily.
Shouldnt trades in a small country where the two can meet up easily be non-inclusive of shipping fee unless its sent by mail too?
Its really something to be determined between the two people, it is in the sellers rights to charge a shipping and handling fee if he stated it before the sale though. -
Date: Fri, Jan 30 2009 23:39:45QUOTE (iMatt @ Jan 30 2009, 12:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Keep in mind that titles can be modified as well.
I just say that auctions should only be given a max limit of 1 week, anything over is just milking it.
Buyout Prices would be nice as well. It just can't be completely outrageous
There should be consequences for people who false bid just to raise the price.
Example: If the person decides to bid sarcastically, and ends up winning, then denies the win, the auction winner becomes the previous bidder
and then the false bidder gets a -1 onto his feedback and a warning from the mods. This incident has happened to me a few times.
Those are just some of my recommendations
well what would you consider as "outraegeous?" because if you set a buyout price to be say 25$ for a kt anyone who wants it enough will just buy it out, which somewhat ruins the fun of bidding. -
Date: Fri, Jan 30 2009 23:58:57
imo there should be reserves. i mean, some people who are new to trading or some people who aren't very popular traders might have something they want to auction but not many people would take them seriously because they're new or unpopular. if there's no reserve, they might have to sell something popular like a SEVEN mod for a very low price.
i think there should be an agreed price for a lot of the popular mods, and that should be the absolute highest the reserve can go. -
Date: Sat, Jan 31 2009 00:45:55QUOTE (K2 @ Jan 30 2009, 04:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>imo there should be reserves. i mean, some people who are new to trading or some people who aren't very popular traders might have something they want to auction but not many people would take them seriously because they're new or unpopular. if there's no reserve, they might have to sell something popular like a SEVEN mod for a very low price.
i think there should be an agreed price for a lot of the popular mods, and that should be the absolute highest the reserve can go.
well, in my opinion, people who are new to trading shouldnt hold an auction since they probably have +0 on the WL.
and auction holders usually send after they receive the payment, so it cant really work out.
and whats the point of having an auction if there is an agreed price? just buy it from a jeb guy who sells pens at a fixed price.gif)
-
Date: Sat, Jan 31 2009 00:59:56QUOTE (SJ @ Jan 30 2009, 07:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>well, in my opinion, people who are new to trading shouldnt hold an auction since they probably have +0 on the WL.
and auction holders usually send after they receive the payment, so it cant really work out.
and whats the point of having an auction if there is an agreed price? just buy it from a jeb guy who sells pens at a fixed price
yeah i know what you mean. i probably shouldn't have said new members, but more unknown members that have like, +5 feedback but they aren't known on upsb. for example, a kUzu mod from TEK that went up for auction would go quite high in price, but if the same thing was up for auction by someone else that was less known, it would just go for the bare minimum. the reserve wouldn't be an agreed price, i guess it should be the starting price. -
Date: Sat, Jan 31 2009 01:01:48QUOTE (K2 @ Jan 30 2009, 05:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>yeah i know what you mean. i probably shouldn't have said new members, but more unknown members that have like, +5 feedback but they aren't known on upsb. for example, a kUzu mod from TEK that went up for auction would go quite high in price, but if the same thing was up for auction by someone else that was less known, it would just go for the bare minimum. the reserve wouldn't be an agreed price, i guess it should be the starting price.
dont assume things. if the pen is nice and he/she has a decent feedback record, then people will bid
and whats the point of an auction if the reserve is gonna be the starting price? so a kt should start at 20 bucks? -
Date: Sat, Jan 31 2009 01:04:57QUOTE (SJ @ Jan 30 2009, 08:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>dont assume things. if the pen is nice and he/she has a decent feedback record, then people will bid
and whats the point of an auction if the reserve is gonna be the starting price? so a kt should start at 20 bucks?
i'm not assuming, it happened to me. i don't know about the reserve question, ask frip about that one. -
Date: Sat, Jan 31 2009 01:41:00
IMO
There should be no reserve prices. If the seller does not want to risk losing money in an auction, then simply the seller should not put the item up for auction. As K2 mentioned, buyers would probably aim for sellers such as TEK because sellers such as TEK have a reputation of making good looking mods. If an unknown seller can make a good looking mod and provide a legit picture, then why wouldn't anyone buy it?
For the shipping issue, the seller should mention if it is he/she or the buyer who will pay shipping in the thread; the buyer should also be aware of it. -
Date: Sat, Jan 31 2009 02:17:22QUOTE (CaliMartinio @ Jan 30 2009, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>IMO
There should be no reserve prices. If the seller does not want to risk losing money in an auction, then simply the seller should not put the item up for auction. As K2 mentioned, buyers would probably aim for sellers such as TEK because sellers such as TEK have a reputation of making good looking mods. If an unknown seller can make a good looking mod and provide a legit picture, then why wouldn't anyone buy it?
For the shipping issue, the seller should mention if it is he/she or the buyer who will pay shipping in the thread; the buyer should also be aware of it.
Uh.... reserve prices dont work in the fact of losing money... obviously they will be set at a decent amount... because if it was set high the mod wont sell, and then the seller wont make ANY money.
I think that people who have a good idea of how eBay works will understand how an auction should go.
The seller can charge whatever they want,can set whatever starting price, ending price, and reserve that they want.
AS LONG AS IT IS ALL POSTED WITHIN THE THREAD.
In an auction, its always buyer discretion... the mods cant take care of you guys, so read the fine print before bidding, or be prepared to deal with it.
From my experience, and observation, everything is going fine auction-wise in this forum.
If the stuff isnt stated within a auction thread... pm the auctioneer, and ask them to post details within the thread. And if they dont.. well then thats sketchy, dont bid. Treat this stuff as regular trade threads you guys, if information isnt posted correctly, and things just look out of place... they prolly are.
Theres a few simple solutions to the problems i see in this thread:
@iMatt: Next time, specifically STATE within the thread that they must hold up a bid, or be prepared to face negative feedback, or mod powers! -
Date: Sat, Jan 31 2009 16:11:12
if you want a reserve
the seller can PM a trusted 3rd party with the reserve price before the auction begins.
anyone bidding on an auction should screenshot the first post as evidence against tampering,
then if there's a problem, everybody who bid on that auction can show their screenshot and see if they make sense. -
Date: Sat, Jan 31 2009 17:12:16
I don't get it. What's a reserve?
-
Date: Sat, Jan 31 2009 20:56:33
A reserve is a ( 99% of the times SECRET) price that must be reached in order to sell the item..
HOWEVER... I think that is just stupid because it's part of the risk you take on you when making an auction. You'll have to live with it. And maybe next time make your auction look better..etc.
But I think reserves are just cheap. Auctions are meant to have GOOD deals!
..
SO I really think that a) you don't make a reserve or
make the reserve the starting bid so EVERYBODY can see it!
It's just cheap and also kind of scamming if you have a reserve that's not visible to public -
Date: Sat, Jan 31 2009 21:33:07QUOTE (FripメECツ @ Jan 31 2009, 04:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>A reserve is a ( 99% of the times SECRET) price that must be reached in order to sell the item..
HOWEVER... I think that is just stupid because it's part of the risk you take on you when making an auction. You'll have to live with it. And maybe next time make your auction look better..etc.
But I think reserves are just cheap. Auctions are meant to have GOOD deals!
..
SO I really think that a) you don't make a reserve or make the reserve the starting bid so EVERYBODY can see it!
It's just cheap and also kind of scamming if you have a reserve that's not visible to public
Disagreed.
eBay has been using the idea of reserves... as well as every other single auction/auction site... so its obviously not a bad thing.
Its put in place so that the auction does not go for ridiculously cheap, which could happen because of not enough interest, gets moved to second page, barely anyone sees it.. etc. theres tons of things that COULD happen.
and its obviously NOT a scam.. i dont understand your logic on that.
If you dont reach the reserve, the item does not get sold, and noone wins.
If you do reach the reserve, then the seller is happy (because they got what they wanted) and the bidder is happy (because they got what they wanted).... i just dont see your logic
-
Date: Sat, Jan 31 2009 23:42:37QUOTE (FripメECツ @ Jan 31 2009, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>A reserve is a ( 99% of the times SECRET) price that must be reached in order to sell the item..
HOWEVER... I think that is just stupid because it's part of the risk you take on you when making an auction. You'll have to live with it. And maybe next time make your auction look better..etc.
But I think reserves are just cheap. Auctions are meant to have GOOD deals!
..
SO I really think that a) you don't make a reserve or make the reserve the starting bid so EVERYBODY can see it!
It's just cheap and also kind of scamming if you have a reserve that's not visible to public
uhhh no
for a rare item, its actually a way for the seller to make the most money possible by selling it to the guy who wants it the most. -
Date: Sun, Feb 1 2009 00:20:18
Zumbi: Good deals can be seen both ways. If it's the seller selling a KuZu mod for 40$ or if it's someone getting a GPC COmSsa for 5$ doesn't matter lol
@Stevie
I said it's a scam wen there's no system to prove the reserve... or if it's not public. -
Date: Sun, Feb 1 2009 00:22:37
I don't see the problem with setting the starting bid to the minimum bid. Since a person is going to have to pay that much to get it anyway
-
Date: Sun, Feb 1 2009 00:28:01QUOTE (Awesome @ Jan 31 2009, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I don't see the problem with setting the starting bid to the minimum bid. Since a person is going to have to pay that much to get it anyway
Exactly.
eBay has a built-in system for reserves... UPSB doesn't.
And the system is secure. -
Date: Sun, Feb 1 2009 01:26:48QUOTE (FripメECツ @ Jan 31 2009, 07:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Zumbi: Good deals can be seen both ways. If it's the seller selling a KuZu mod for 40$ or if it's someone getting a GPC COmSsa for 5$ doesn't matter lol
@Stevie
I said it's a scam wen there's no system to prove the reserve... or if it's not public.
i just proposed a system to solve the reserve... -
Date: Sun, Feb 1 2009 01:38:27QUOTE (Zombo @ Jan 31 2009, 06:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i just proposed a system to solve the reserve...
Wait...do you mean the PM stuff or is there actually a feature like that for this board?
-
Date: Sun, Feb 1 2009 01:41:02QUOTE (FripメECツ @ Jan 31 2009, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Wait...do you mean the PM stuff or is there actually a feature like that for this board?
the seller PMs a trusted person the conditions of the auction
that person can then verify the auction is correct. -
Date: Sun, Feb 1 2009 02:10:14QUOTE (Zombo @ Jan 31 2009, 06:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>the seller PMs a trusted person the conditions of the auction
that person can then verify the auction is correct.
But.... why would you not post the reserve in the thread? The PM method sounds so sneaky xD -
Date: Sun, Feb 1 2009 02:19:43
Why don't the starting bid be half of the reserve price?
-
Date: Sun, Feb 1 2009 02:20:09QUOTE (FripメECツ @ Jan 31 2009, 09:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>But.... why would you not post the reserve in the thread? The PM method sounds so sneaky xD
that's how reserve work
go on ebay, it says "reserve not met" until someone bids over and it doesnt tell u what reserve is
there's no other way to emulate that. -
Date: Sun, Feb 1 2009 04:04:50
seriously reserve is just a price that the seller thinks it suitable.
so if it meets the reserve the seller is happy.
then buyer is also happy at the price cos he BID for it.
when he bid, he is pretty much getting ready to pay for it.
so if you are unable to hit the reserve then too bad?
if the seller sets the reserve at a very high price then i doubt anyone would get it.
when the bidder feels that its not worth to bid anyhigher,
there is no use no matter how high the reserve is.
Frip i think its just your mentality? -
Date: Mon, Feb 2 2009 00:43:24
Reserves are ok IF there is a system to prove them. But at the moment people just write stuff like "auction" ends when reserve is met" BUT the reserve is only in the mind of the auction starter. Theoretically that auctioncould go on forever..
So..Zumbi what would be needed for the PM system? Because they would have to prove the PM..
And would the other rules be enforced?
/maybe auction subforum where you make a new thread for every auction. And editing titles isn't possible -
Date: Mon, Feb 2 2009 01:17:28
eh... people just have to be honest
if that doesnt happen, then a bidder can just quote the auctioneer
that way he/she cant change something w/o people noticing
simple -
Date: Mon, Feb 2 2009 01:21:22QUOTE (SJ @ Feb 1 2009, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>eh... people just have to be honest
if that doesnt happen, then a bidder can just quote the auctioneer
that way he/she cant change something w/o people noticing
simple
Still doesn't solve the reswerve problem. Because you can't quote something that isn't written ^^
I mean where is the problem with just writing " Reserve is 20$, bid more than that or item isn't sold!" ?!! -
Date: Mon, Feb 2 2009 01:28:06QUOTE (FripメECツ @ Feb 1 2009, 06:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Still doesn't solve the reswerve problem. Because you can't quote something that isn't written ^^
I mean where is the problem with just writing " Reserve is 20$, bid more than that or item isn't sold!" ?!!
oh i was just talking about the auction ending date lol -
Date: Mon, Feb 2 2009 02:07:36
the person who got pm'ed the reserve and the rest of the details before the auction can verify that the auction is correct.
if the person is someone with a reputation like a moderator, then there's no problem -
Date: Mon, Feb 2 2009 02:11:23
I don't see how it affects the outcome by saying "reserve x$" right in the thread, its a lot easier and convenient then getting a mod involved in it.
Better yet, just start the bidding at the reserve price. Since its not going to be sold for less then that anyway, any bids below it are virtually pointless anyway. -
Date: Mon, Feb 2 2009 02:29:29QUOTE (Zombo @ Feb 1 2009, 07:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>the person who got pm'ed the reserve and the rest of the details before the auction can verify that the auction is correct.
if the person is someone with a reputation like a moderator, then there's no problem
Well.. sounds ok.. but people need to start doing that.QUOTEI don't see how it affects the outcome by saying "reserve x$" right in the thread, its a lot easier and convenient then getting a mod involved in it.
Better yet, just start the bidding at the reserve price. Since its not going to be sold for less then that anyway, any bids below it are virtually pointless anyway.
That is the best solution imo. And doesn't anybody think it's suspicious to not want to post the reserve in the thread and just keep it secret?
-
Date: Mon, Feb 2 2009 03:06:12QUOTE (FripメECツ @ Feb 1 2009, 10:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Well.. sounds ok.. but people need to start doing that.
That is the best solution imo. And doesn't anybody think it's suspicious to not want to post the reserve in the thread and just keep it secret?
Kinda defeats the purpose of an auction.
An auction, (from a sellers standpoint) is to try and get as much money as you can.
Its shown that bidders will competitavely bid higher than they would normally bid for a product, if it were that price right off the bat.
Thats why auctions always start at an enticing price of 99cents
If we use a private reserve system (moderator PM), or a posted reserve system. I think that everything would go smoothly.
All you have to do is PM a mod, saying im having an auction, these are my items, these are my reserves. Done.
If there are any problems that the bidders have, or if the moderator sees that the seller is being sneaky. Then Mods can be brought into the equation.
Its truely a very simple system. -
Date: Mon, Feb 2 2009 03:39:07
in the end
these are all suggestions and not enforcements
if you don't like someone's auction, don't bid in it, or demand better conditions, its that simple -
Date: Mon, Feb 2 2009 03:52:53QUOTE (Zombo @ Feb 1 2009, 08:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>in the end
these are all suggestions and not enforcements
if you don't like someone's auction, don't bid in it, or demand better conditions, its that simple
So I take it that the PM way is the way it goes from now on?
Then I think you should make a new thread about it and sticky it so that everybody knows ^^ -
Date: Mon, Feb 2 2009 04:11:24
shouldnt we vote on it or something?
what do all mods think of this -
Date: Mon, Feb 2 2009 04:13:59
Yeah SJ.
And also... what about the other things? Like No bids per PM, auction end in title, etc? -
Date: Mon, Feb 2 2009 04:56:29
sellers run the auction the way they want,
if you don't like it, don't bid.
the only requirement is that sellers should make it clear before the auction starts how they do it.