UPSB v3

Collaboration Organization/Signups / UPSB Collab

Discussion Thread

Guitrum
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 06:55:21

THIS IS A DISCUSSION THREAD, NOT A SIGN UP THREAD. NOT YET.

~

Alrighty UPSB,

We've gone long enough without a UPSB Collab! I think its time to organize one and get one out there! But since there are so many of you, we need to come up with a filtering system to be able to pull this off. I have an idea but we should discuss it first.

My idea is that the first 64 people to reply with /in will be randomly placed in a bracket. each person will film a combo that would be intended for the collab. the videos will battle until there are 16 videos left. those will be the ones made into a collab.

we can all decide who we want to be the judges. probably people that wont be in the collab. maybe some JEB members or GPC members or whoever we want. but the people to say /in should really be strictly from UPSB and not from another board and just joined this just because. I say this because it is infact a UPSB Collab, not a UPSB+all the other boards Collab.

Please discuss this idea and maybe give other ideas.
Shadowserpant
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 07:13:43

first 64? i think that's kinda stupid
i say filter by skill, simple as that
upsb 1st should be epic
Guitrum
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 07:19:37

QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ Feb 3 2009, 11:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
first 64? i think that's kinda stupid
i say filter by skill, simple as that
upsb 1st should be epic

so ur saying, basically collect the amount of people that say in/ in a certain amount of time, judge them all and pick out as many as we want due to skill?
Shadowserpant
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 07:21:55

let everyone apply, pick the best, simple as that
and invite the best of the best, to make sure they don't miss the thread

i think everyone should refer to the original attempt at UPSB 1st http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=845
i didn't like the partner idea because i dont think anyone can design a combo to your own maximum potential. however, the progress reports and collaborative editing i thought were great ideas. i think this collab needs to be taken very seriously
MatthewK206
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 07:22:41

Yeah the same as all other filtering for collabs goes (usually)

If the editor doesn't like the combo/it doesn't fit well/it's not good enough, then it's out. and only the cream of the crop remains.
JC
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 07:31:52

I agree, it's about time we have a UPSB 1st (although, I'd like to improve a bit more before I try and get myself into this collab ><)

1. Isn't your entire bracket idea simply just... whoever wants to enter should submit a video, and then they get filtered down to 16 videos? It shouldn't be tournament format if that's what you're suggesting.

2. 16 spinners... ~15-20 seconds each... That's a ~4-5 min collab... I mean, I personally don't like 4+ min collabs, so I think that 16 spinners is too much if you include editing and everything. Then again, for this, I think I would be able to tolerate a 4+ min collab, but under 5 min. Perhaps consider lowering that amount of spinners... 16 may be tolerable... but it's pushing it....

3. Editor. Do you want an editor whose main board is also UPSB? Or do you not care if the editor is from other boards? Personally, I think it would be ideal if the editor was also from UPSB, but with our lack of decent editors, it may be necessary to find an editor from another board. We should also have a very active person keeping in constant contact with that editor.

4. Deadlines. I would think a longer deadline would be better for this. I know I would definitely want to practice harder so as to get into this collab, and I'm sure plenty of other people would too. Give people a decent amount of time to practice before videos are due because getting into this is good motivation for the decent, but not yet pro, spinners to become much better.

5. When this is all done with, if we manage to pull this off, I request that Zombo release it Just because this is a rather important collab, and someone of higher authority should be releasing it. Not to downplay your significance to this board Guitrum, but I just don't think you have the reputation required to release something as big as this.

Thank you for initiating this topic of discussion though. I was considering starting something like this thread too when I read the posts in the FPSB 3rd thread, but I'm.... lazy. Which is kinda contradictory now though...since I went through all the trouble of typing all this -.-'' well, meh, whatever =P

I really do hope this comes to completion.
MatthewK206
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 07:55:03

My thoughts precisely John.

I think it would be best if we had about 12 spinners. Showcasing the best of the best.

I also think that it shouldn't be during or anywhere near the WT for that matter. Considering four of out most prominent spinners should be focusing on that, rather than a collab (be it a board collab or not). I definitely think we will get better results if we were to have the deadline at least a month and a half to two months after the WT.

And taking ideas from the topic that shadow posted, I think it would be best if we had more than one editor.
Not like twenty of them, but perhaps 3 of them. So they can toss ideas around but still get shit done. Like they say two heads is better than one.

I also agree with JC about Zuuuumbo or Kam or someone very high up on the board should release and advertise the collab.

The partner idea isn't my favorite (taken from the last attempt) but if it were to work it would work stunningly.

And yeah..
Uhm
The end?
Sadistic
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 08:05:24

WTFUX BLOCK OF TEXT!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!

First things first-
1) Vision (+Direction)

a. How is this project going to represent UPSB as a Pen spinning board?
-we want to be seen as some of the best enthusiasts of pen spinning in the world. This means that we not only want to have a collab with very good pen spinning in it, but very good collab organization overall
b. How should we format this video? Should we make it unique with â€œgroup combosâ€ and some of the more advanced ideas for the original UPSB 1st?
-I think we should put everything we possibly can into this video, if making it too complex means it isn't going to happen, then it simply wasn't meant to happen.
c. Who should be in this collab? How do we decide?
-I think that an advanced spinner who knows the board well should decide who gets in, and upon deciding, the organizer will be able to make requests to these specific spinners.

2) Tasks

a. Find an organizer
-Needs to be a fairly advanced spinner.
-Needs to have a reasonably non-busy schedule at the time, because they will be the one pestering people to get things done.
-Needs to have experience in editing and planning.
-Needs to be creative.
(Zombo? Eriror? TEK?)
b. Find an editor
-Needs to be very experienced in editing.
-Needs to be creative.
-Should know how to play with music transfers.
(Minwoo?)
c. Find a visual artist
-Needs to be very good at visual media
-Should have experience in adobe after effects
-Possible experience in an animations program
-Someone who isn't busy so that they can easily respond to the editor's requests
(Minwoo, Myself[XDXDXDXD],anyone really)
d. Find an incredible song
-Must be done before editor can begin any work.

3) Additional notes

-This is the most diverse group of pen spinners in the world, we should make something incredible, any less is unacceptable
-We should be incredibly creative. Zombo stressed how we should make a collab that is collaboration dominated, I think we can come up with better collab ideas than simply air passing it to each other between combos.
-I think we should be reasonably strict on who is UPSB material...Its not that I dislike foreign spinners, I simply think a UPSB collab should have spinners recognized as UPSB spinners.
-Who the fuck am I? I'm a person who is fairly good at organizing things.....

Spoiler:

1) Vision (+Direction)
a. How is this project going to represent UPSB as a Pen spinning board?
b. How should we format this video? Should we make it unique with â€œgroup combosâ€ and some of the more advanced ideas for the original UPSB 1st?
c. Who should be in this collab? The best combos submitted? A variety of skill levels to show our diversity?
2) Task, Resources
a. Tasks
i. Making a huge number of small particular decisions, I think a contest for the Aesthetic appeal organizer would be a reasonable motivator for someone to make a proper draft of their ideas of how the collab will look.
ii. We need a good way to choose organizers who will be committed and who work together well.
iii. We need to create the best example of a penspinning video in existence, that shows just how great a community of diverse countries can come together and pull out some of the best penspinning in the world and how prideful we are of the fantastic community we (especially Zombo and the entire UPSB moderating staff) have molded.
b. Resources
i. The most diverse community of Pen spinners in the world.
ii. Members who both love their community and pen spinning
iii. Communication for people that we may need across all countries of the world.
iv. Amazing penspinners who will never cease to amaze me with their commitment to penspinning.
3) Readiness, Commitment, Competence
a. Simply enough, commitment is incredibly important, as it is what halted the original UPSB 1ST.
b. The people chosen for their positions need to be assessed of both their competency and commitment before. You may be the best video editor in UPSB, but if youâ€™re constantly busy, you will only hinder the project.
4) Assignment, Responsibility
a. Aesthetic appeal organizer (1-2 people)
i. Organizes what music will be played, how the videos should be edited, whether or not to add certain themes or repetitiveness, even how specific combos should be angled to maintain/disperse consistency for certain sections of the Collab. They will be looking at the final product and making corrections for the primary editor.
ii. Should be someone who has very good taste, who is very observant of how other collabs are created and has experience in the actual creation of a collab.
b. Video collection organizer (1 person)
i. They need to make sure that those who have signed up for this are indeed creating videos, are sticking to the restrictions of their combos and that people are maintaining their commitments in general.
ii. Needs to be someone who knows the community well and has access to as many means of communication as possible, and certainly someone who has a very strong commitment to the project themselves.
c. Visual designers(1-X people)
i. Can be decided through a contest who generates some of the graphics used in our Collab (similar to how GPC did it?), but graphics can be a huge factor on the appeal of a collab, some fantastic examples of effects seem to come out of GPC 2nd and Saz'ect Star Drive.
ii. Needs to be someone who can work magic with visual art/effect designs.
d. Primary video editor (1 person)
i. Need to be very talented at both creating effects and should be talking with the Aesthetic appeal organizer constantly.
ii. Needs to be someone who is willing to commit a large amount of time to this project and be patient with how their work is judged by organizers; they should also be very familiar with effects and video editing techniques, the discussions between Aesthetic appeal organizer and the Primary video editor should not be one sided, they should be contributing large amounts of their opinion yet still working very well with the other organizers.
e. Collab Organizer
i. Someone who has experience with organization, Zombo and Xshadowfire seem like the fantastic choices, but this needs to be chosen very wisely for certain.
ii. They need absolute commitment to make sure the other organizers are doing their jobs; they also need to provide a communication between the needs of the organizers and the rest of the community.

5) Execution of the tasks
a. All organizers need to know when and how to initiate the start of certain pieces of the collaboration so ideas and plans get ahead of certain foundations of the collab.
b. Large amounts of work will need to be completed in a short amount of time, it is incredibly important that organization and commitment of execution be maintained.
6) Checking, Reporting
a. This in particular stresses how important it is that the organizers keep up with how their resources are performing for them.
b. People need to communicate, so use emailing, PMâ€™ing, Facebooking, MSN, phone, texting, anything, is key.
7) Evaluation of Final Product
This projuct should maintain a high expectation schedule, but the proper design of this project is more important than keeping on date, so be patient please

don't flame meh plz

EDIT: p.s. Are we going to discuss collab ideas openly in this thread? Cause I thought those were supposed to stay more...well....idk....secrety?
Shadowserpant
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 08:11:03

heh i like your attitude sadistic ^^
something i was thinking...
maybe some of us could pair up for passes?
Outsmash
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 08:13:40

I can do the editing. And it'd be nice if the whole thing was done within UPSB members. Not Minwoo (Not pointing at myself either).

About the spinning: Wouldn't the usual get in as 'usual'. Eriror, Vic etc etc..?

Suggestion: We could have an actual UPSB collab with that 16 spinner concept and also release a developing spinners collab kinda thing. That would give more oppurtunities (to people like me) and make them think they can at least try. That's just a suggestion though.
JC
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 08:16:21

Wow Sadistic xDD

And some more points I'll throw in here I guess...

1. Spinning parts
-Pairing up = sure...why not
-stand up spinning: I want to see some stand up spinning if possible to diversify the videos and not have constant table views

2. Music: it better be epic. that's all I gotta say about that.. xD

3. Editor: Minwoo would be great... but he's a big representer of GPC, are you sure we would want him participating in our collab =\? He would definitely be able to get out a good quality collab for us... but he's not us really, he's gpc.
Outsmash
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 08:24:42

QUOTE (JC @ Feb 4 2009, 01:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wow Sadistic xDD

And some more points I'll throw in here I guess...

1. Spinning parts
-Pairing up = sure...why not
-stand up spinning: I want to see some stand up spinning if possible to diversify the videos and not have constant table views

2. Music: it better be epic. that's all I gotta say about that.. xD

3. Editor: Minwoo would be great... but he's a big representer of GPC, are you sure we would want him participating in our collab =\? He would definitely be able to get out a good quality collab for us... but he's not us really, he's gpc.

Yea. That's what I'm saying. He's excellent but IMO inside UPSB is best.

About the not the table thing: I agree. Something different would be nice. Much different. (I'm thinking of something already ).
iamk34n3
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 08:24:52

QUOTE (Outsmash @ Feb 4 2009, 12:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can do the editing. And it'd be nice if the whole thing was done within UPSB members. Not Minwoo (Not pointing at myself either).

About the spinning: Wouldn't the usual get in as 'usual'. Eriror, Vic etc etc..?

Suggestion: We could have an actual UPSB collab with that 16 spinner concept and also release a developing spinners collab kinda thing. That would give more oppurtunities (to people like me) and make them think they can at least try. That's just a suggestion though.

Proof of your editing skills. I wouldn't choose some no name editor over somebody experienced in editing.
Outsmash
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 08:31:30

QUOTE (iamk34n3 @ Feb 4 2009, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Proof of your editing skills. I wouldn't choose some no name editor over somebody experienced in editing.

New Year's Collab (My first): http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=15318
Outsmash + stemza tag (Did it cuz I had to within a couple of hours): http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=16339
Shadowserpant
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 08:32:08

+1 keane
and uh...
i've yet to see an appealing stand up vid, honestly
im all for variation but dont try so hard that we pull out crappy stuff
maybe some magic or something
i think the song needs to be released to participants, so they can use it to pace themselves

@your editing, i dont like it
Sadistic
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 08:41:19

QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ Feb 4 2009, 04:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
heh i like your attitude sadistic ^^

QUOTE (JC @ Feb 4 2009, 04:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wow Sadistic xDD

Thanks lolz ~_~.....

QUOTE (JC @ Feb 4 2009, 04:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
2. Music: it better be epic. that's all I gotta say about that.. xD

Mr. Zombo talked bout something he had in mind, which I'm sure is very epic.

these are what I think we need in a song (imo):
-no words (or if there are words, they should be blended well with the music, I suppose a jap song could work...but I think we all had something different in mind besides an average Jap song for this epic-nes)
-under 3:30 (letz not make another FPSB collab xD [no offense])
-Epic...if someone could mix us one to fit the Editors specifications that would be fantastic.

QUOTE (JC @ Feb 4 2009, 04:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
3. Editor: Minwoo would be great... but he's a big representer of GPC, are you sure we would want him participating in our collab =\? He would definitely be able to get out a good quality collab for us... but he's not us really, he's gpc.

yezz....Minwoo isn't exactly a common passerby at UPSB.....

I think we simply need someone who knows their way around vegas, because I was thinking the organizer would be the one who visualized the collab and had the editor create the effects. If anyone knows how to do multi-screen editing, that would be fantastic.

QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ Feb 4 2009, 03:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
im all for variation but dont try so hard that we pull out crappy stuff

Yes, we should have Eriror/Zombo/others sample segments of the vids as often as we can so that we don't drift away from awesome to over the top.

This should also apply to graphics...A cool intro, some good name effects, and some kool credits and I think we can call it good. I enjoyed PSH's flame effects, but I don't think we should have a collab that is quite that graphically weighted.
Outsmash
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 09:13:34

@shadow: some people actually liked it. I won't get chosen anyways. It's just an alternative (to have me as an editor) not an ultimatum.
Glamouraz
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 09:53:39

I think to really fit the music, we should either choose the music before everyone starts filming or after everyone has submitted.

Before filming cause then we can hear the music and spin to that style.

After submission so editor can see everyone's spinning and see which song fits everyone's spinning.

i don't think it should be a jap song. Maybe an instrumental song. We're from UPSB, why use a jap song?
JC
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 10:07:29

QUOTE (Glamouraz @ Feb 4 2009, 04:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think to really fit the music, we should either choose the music before everyone starts filming or after everyone has submitted.

Before filming cause then we can hear the music and spin to that style.

After submission so editor can see everyone's spinning and see which song fits everyone's spinning.

Isn't that what shadow was saying here:
QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ Feb 4 2009, 03:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i think the song needs to be released to participants, so they can use it to pace themselves

and @Sian_ing, Thank you for your extremely thoughtful, and not to mention, helpful post. We really needed for the same thing to be repeated again.

This isn't spammer's bin, this is an actual discussion on something rather serious to the penspinning community. Don't spam this thread up like that. I don't even want to waste my time sifting through posts like that.
Glamouraz
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 11:01:15

@JC, pace themselves?
JC
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 11:28:27

QUOTE (Glamouraz @ Feb 4 2009, 06:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
@JC, pace themselves?

Yes spinners can pace themselves to the music.... in other words, they can spin to the music and so that's why shadow thinks we should get the music beforehand...which is essentially what you reiterated -.-''
eh, whatever...
Zombo
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 13:10:38

hmm yeah

i had something in mind

the timing would not be riht imo

we can plan it but i would wait until summer

from what ive seen from the WT, PSers are much more prone to planning their combos now. which gives me hope for a more structured collab

my base goals are:

-> less than 2:30 minutes
-> themed
-> high quality
-> don't make a collab because others are doing one, make one because you have something special to show
Tim
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 13:58:12

I want to see a whole collab done with the doubles type transitions, except every video links onto the next, instead of just the one transition in the middle. Would make it uber-entertaining to watch and has a lot of creativity. I'm not sure if it's been done before (wouldn't be surprised if it has), but it would be awesome.

Example: Strat and Oxygene

Took me forever to find that video
Sadistic
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 15:56:28

In Pyralux and Skyblue TAG, they do an awesome bit where they roll from screen to scree, that would be pretty awesome to do imo....
sangara
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 17:22:25

Ugh you guys to a lot when I'm asleep; my... couple of cents:

1. It seems like there is a lot of talk about this editor problem. What I'm thinking is, why punish ourselves to not have a good editor? I personally think that there's no shame in having a great editor who isn't primarily from this board.

2. About the number of spinners, I'm thinking like 10-12 max... no offense guys but I can't think of 16 spinners that would be on the same level and keep this collab of the caliber we want it to.

3. As for the automatically in people, I think we can all agree with, Eriror, Chau, Vic, and Charlie. They made it into the WT so no use denying them an automatic ticket.

4. As far as filtering the videos, I think we should have non-participating mods do it, it worked for the WT didn't it?

5. Transfers: I don't think that we should do this, and here's why: When you do transfers like for a whole video, you're automatically hindering a spinners combo. First off you have to figure out how you're going to catch, it so just there you have limited your combo. And as for a finisher, what finisher, you're throwing it to the next person. So what I'm really trying to say is that doing transfers like this takes away the two most appealing parts of the combo, your starter and your finisher.

I think that's it, I'm out of ideas.
Zombo
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 18:03:06

Here's the concept I wanted to apply for the collab. I realize it is experimental and may not work, but it's a risk I'm willing to wager on.

Virtual Spinning Space

Consider a set of 9 spinners

We can imagine them being a 3x3 square (could be some other shape):

A B C
D E F
G H I

Then, transitions from video to video can be made through the appropriate side.

For instance: if A does a transition from the right side of the screen, it should continue into the left side of B's screen.

If F sends his pen diagonally lower left, it will end up in H's screen.

But it gets more interesting: if A makes a strong throw to the right for instance, we could imagine the pen having flew over B's space, and into C.

Similarly, we could imagine A rolling his pen through B's space, while B is spinnign his own pen, and then landing in C space.

Or consider this:

E makes a 2p2h combo, sends his each pens in opposite left and right.

We then see both D and F in seperate screens at the same time making a synchronized combo!!

Of course such an idea needs good execution, it would require:

- An excellent editor, able to simulate the effects of one screen moving to the other.
- Spinners who are willing to coordinate and plan their combos
- Appropriate camera angles depending on where they are in the space. For instance, E requires connections to everybody else, A only requires the right and bottom sides.

The possibilities are limitless and it's not hard to see how to extend this concept.

Furthermore, it would give the viewers another layer to analyze, because they probably won't understand the placement of each spinner if it is not explictly shown (i.e.: an overview screen at beginning or end of collab showing the placement of every spinner in the space), which means they have to watch the video several time to understand who is where.
sangara
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 18:13:37

OK, now something like that would just make people shit bricks, that's something that we would need. Then maybe at the end have all 9 windows with us waving or something.
Jamie Enns
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 18:53:45

neat idea, but is it necessary to make a concept collab? and this is a VERY old concept, hyped up. I thought the original plan had a better concept honestly and just because it was less about the editing and more about the spinning and community + the idea was more original. I think that brainstorming is a long process if this is indeed a concept collab, and i would suggest sooner rather then summer because exams are over, but we are still bored as crap with school.

thats my two cents
Mystic
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 21:49:54

This is turning out way more complicated than it should be.
Charlie
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 22:01:09

I like the idea zombo, but I'm not sure how the 3x3 would be done. I get the transitions though.
l33tPi
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 22:31:46

has there been any that said "/in" well /in xD
Fripãƒ¡ECãƒ„
Date: Wed, Feb 4 2009 22:53:06

QUOTE (l33tPi @ Feb 4 2009, 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
has there been any that said "/in" well /in xD

Readfirst line, first post.

And yes...why would you guysmakeit so complicated? And this "auto-in" stuff isnotso good either.. what if they don't want to be in? If they make a combo, they should be able to makeiton their own

As for the editor... it's not THAT hard to edit a good collab. Look here: http://www.videocopilot.net/ and then try for yourself. It just takes 1-2 videos experience. So I think anyone could be editor if they were willing to learn it.

Anyways..have to go now..

...sorry my spacebar is kinda broken
Shadowserpant
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 01:01:14

QUOTE (Tim @ Feb 4 2009, 05:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I want to see a whole collab done with the doubles type transitions, except every video links onto the next, instead of just the one transition in the middle. Would make it uber-entertaining to watch and has a lot of creativity. I'm not sure if it's been done before (wouldn't be surprised if it has), but it would be awesome.

Example: Strat and Oxygene

Took me forever to find that video

QUOTE (Sadistic @ Feb 4 2009, 07:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In Pyralux and Skyblue TAG, they do an awesome bit where they roll from screen to scree, that would be pretty awesome to do imo....

well i already said that lol
but sangara brings up a good point, im not so sure about that anymore

@Jamie, concept collab? this is... upsb 1st, isn't it?
@Frip, no one said they HAVE to be in, it means they're automatically accepted if they want to be in

@Zombo, i understand what you're saying, and i've though of those types of things before... it just would take a lot of hard work, and im not sure how committed people will be to it

tentative list, for brainstorming sake-
Vic, Eriror, Chau, Charlie, sangara, shadowserpant, Baaron, Tomo, Nate and TEk, sadistic, dathroat, mhig, and pho
edit: jamie
pholord
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 01:51:13

i say as long as each spinner puts together an outstanding combo (i.e. signature moves) itll be good
all these transitions and stuff seem like a little too much.
Zombo
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 02:32:50

first if it doesnt take a lot efffort to do then don't bother, what's the point of doing sometihng half-assed when there's already a ton of collabs getting released on a regular basis

if you just want to make a collab with excellent combos, then you can do that on your own, invite your favourite ppl, make a team collab or between teams, etc. sticking the title UPSB Collab on a standard collab is just using brand power to attract to something, collabs should be watched for their quality, not for their title, or the spinners in it.
Sadistic
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 03:31:51

QUOTE (Zombo @ Feb 4 2009, 10:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
first if it doesnt take a lot efffort to do then don't bother, what's the point of doing sometihng half-assed when there's already a ton of collabs getting released on a regular basis

if you just want to make a collab with excellent combos, then you can do that on your own, invite your favourite ppl, make a team collab or between teams, etc. sticking the title UPSB Collab on a standard collab is just using brand power to attract to something, collabs should be watched for their quality, not for their title, or the spinners in it.

Absolutely. We need to make an incredibly high quality collab or none at all.

About the commitment issue: We can only do so much to motivate people to quardinate with the collab, imo the main thing will be keeping a lot of communication. If someone isn't willing to work hard on a collab that will represent UPSB in its ability to make good videos in the future, they shouldn't be in the collab at all.
MatthewK206
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 03:45:15

Okay, so ther more and more I've read of this thread, the more and more I agree with whomever said it was becoming more about the editor than the spinners. And to be honest, the more I think about it, the more I think that would be good.
Yes an editor plays a big part, but without the spinners there wouldn't be a collab at all, you can put a few videos together with no editing kill at all (drag and drop one video after the other in WMM) and it will work, it just won't look pretty.

This not only has to be a pretty looking collab with extreme quality spinning, it also has to be, as Zombo said, something that isn't just a normal Collab. Perhaps a more traditional collab later would be good, but this is the FIRST from what was once considered the best PS board (IMO anyway).

Whomever said that the collab should be pushed back for quite a while (summer) I think it was Zombo also, I agree with that as well. But have the sign ups/member list/ however it's done sent out well in advance (read directly after WT or something like that), not only for people to write combos that are incredible, but to be able to actually practice long enough to do them. IMO, ideally all of the spinners will be not only showcasing their previous skills, but also the ability that this board has to actually learn some new PS tricks, and develop their own styles, as opposed to just being similar to a well known style.

I think that if the collab ends up being something like the 3x3 grid idea, the pens used should be somewhat similar (like all black and white color schemes) because if I'm wating a collab and I see a blue and red KT passed to a yellow MXSA it makes me pause for a second, and I end up missing about half a second of the spinning. That could just be me, but I'm sure that there are at least SOME other people out there that it offputs as well.

The site that Frip linked to is surprisingly well equipped. Obviously it would be a bad idea to rip stuff DIRECTLY from there, but it provides some good editing tips, tricks, and ideas.

As for whomever said that we shouldn't limit ourself by forcing an editor out of UPSB, that seems contradictory to me.
Yes, in the end spinners are what make the collab, not the editor, the editor is the person that's actually physically making the collan . IMO that's like saying "Why limit ourselves to UPSB spinners, I'm sure that there are some better ones that are on FPSB or JEB or whatever." This is the UPSB first. Not the UPSB [+ a seperate editor] first.

As for music, I have a few suggestions.

Eye of the Tiger, You're the Best (the one from Karate Kid, you know, You're the best, Around, nothin's ever keep you down...), or the Final Countdown, but that deems like it's contradictory for the first of a series of collabs
Zombo
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 04:04:48

just because we are focusing our discussions on the editing/theme aspects of the collab for NOW doesn't mean we disregard the rest; the initial planning of the collab is about determing our goals.

once we got that down, we can go into the finer details and look at exactly we want to do pen spinning wise.

doing an official collab for UPSB should require high standards in everything; I wouldn't be satisfied with a fancy collab if it had poor spinning, just like I wouldn't be satisfied with a collab with good spinning and nothing else.

this means

- spinning
- filming
- editing
- music
- theme
Fripãƒ¡ECãƒ„
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 04:16:35

QUOTE (MatthewK206 @ Feb 4 2009, 08:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The site that Frip linked to is surprisingly well equipped. Obviously it would be a bad idea to rip stuff DIRECTLY from there, but it provides some good editing tips, tricks, and ideas.

lololol Guess where Minwoo learned to edit? XDD And guess what effects he used...

...I'm fine with everything as long as this doesn't turn into some kind of secret thing with pre-chosen spinners
Guitrum
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 04:17:50

if you guys need someone to organize this in terms of collecting all the videos of the spinners we pick, i would love to do that.

ive organized like, 3 collabs so far
MatthewK206
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 04:22:21

QUOTE (Guitrum @ Feb 4 2009, 08:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
if you guys need someone to organize this in terms of collecting all the videos of the spinners we pick, i would love to do that.

ive organized like, 3 collabs so far

No offense guit, but you DID have that one collab that just was never released
Guitrum
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 04:54:03

QUOTE (MatthewK206 @ Feb 4 2009, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No offense guit, but you DID have that one collab that just was never released

uhmmmm i had 16 people sign up and only 3 send in videos... wasnt my fault...
CaliMartinio
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 05:26:30

Well, I read some posts that asked "why make this such a complicated collab?"

As Zombo said, ALOT of collabs have been released lately, and we don't want UPSB 1st to be an ordinary collab.

As sangara said, why do we have to limit ourselves to find an editor here on this board? Well this is collab that represents UPSB and what UPSB's members can do, so I'm thinking the editor should be primarily from this board.

QUOTE (l33tPi @ Feb 4 2009, 02:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
has there been any that said "/in" well /in xD

Don't want to blow up your self-esteem but do you really think you possess the skills to be in this collab with our top spinners like Eriror, ChauTran etc?

Let's make the organizer's job a little easier and let the people who actually have a chance turn in a video so the organizer won't have to go through so much filtering.

Just my two cents.
sangara
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 05:38:43

I still don't see why there is so much emphasis on the editor, unlike what matt said, it is not like just borrowing a spinner, I hope you guys aren't thinking about the editor while watching to collab... I mean I forget halfway through. I think we should start focusing on who our spinners are going to be and then worry about an editor later, I'm starting to think we just need like a short and simple collab, and then maybe do something incredibly epic.
Jamie Enns
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 05:41:48

Ok, i see now why normal clip = bad idea.

BUT, my gut feeling says that passing a pen from one person to another is not groundbreaking, nor difficult, nor exiting, nor original (its been the oldest editing trick for penspinners) and no matter how well it is edited, it will lose any hope of being ground breaking by the fact that it has been done before.

And For Zombo:

- Spinning: new difficult concept/trick per combo: I love the stereotypical korean style/combo, but it is not WHOA material and even if it finishes with a sextuple bust with an mx.

- Filming: worry about that once there is an agreement in the other topics (what would this include even? every combo on a similar background? cam quality? tidy up our desks?)

- Editing: Should be well done, but basic (modernism-ish style) so that it is not in the way, nor the focus BUT it ties into the theme.

- Music: not trying to beak on any other culture, but it should be english because english is the UPSB's 1st and official language (hell we are classified by language, not country here!)

- Theme: I believe strongly that it should convey a message of Community/Unity
sangara
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 05:43:44

QUOTE (Jamie Enns @ Feb 4 2009, 09:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
- Theme: I believe strongly that it should convey a message of Community/Unity

Unfortunately we don't have that here in UPSB, but maybe actually coming out with a collab will give us some respect.
Shadowserpant
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 06:00:16

QUOTE (Jamie Enns @ Feb 4 2009, 09:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
tidy up our desks?)

LOL shit ><
Jamie Enns
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 06:29:54

QUOTE (sangara @ Feb 4 2009, 11:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Unfortunately we don't have that here in UPSB, but maybe actually coming out with a collab will give us some respect.

true, but its a positive message, and if the collaboration needs teamwork for it to happen then all the better, i say

its not a solo video anyways, might as well try and fix broken links between us
Tim
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 07:15:58

@Sangara, you don't have to link in the transition with the finisher or starter (although it definitely makes it more fast paced and exciting when it's done well).

To be completely honest, without including people from other boards (I'm not talking about an editor or anything, I wouldn't care who edited, as long as they were good), UPSB doesn't have a lot of outstanding spinners. Sure, we have spinners who can definitely holds their own, but compared to the amount of great spinners in other communities (for different reasons, like amount of people on the other boards), we can't make an outstanding collab just with some good Korean Combos. Which is why we need to play to our strengths to make a really really great collab. The idea that Zombo has had may not be it (not that I have anything wrong with it), but we certainly cannot make an outstanding collab with only smooth combos.

The reason that JEB collabs were so awesome is because they had the best of the best spinners, and there style was a little bit different to normal Korean Combos. It also had good editing, but that is something which all good collabs have in common.

Summary: If we want our collab to stand out it has to be different, and executed well. If we do do it and it does not work, then too bad, at least we didn't make the same old collab with some fast paced combos.

I don't really have anything against doing a collab where everyone tries to film a good video, I just think this way is cooler.
Outsmash
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 11:07:32

One of the the thing that could work is variety in spinning. The normal combos done sitting etc are too often seen. This collab should also appeal to Non-PSers. We can throw in stuff people haven't done as well as spin really well.

With Variety, what I mean is,(just an example) If someone here is good in Gymnastics as well as PS they could come up with something great.It is hard to co-ordinate both but we could give the spinner some time.

As for executing this collab w/o flaws, only high quality etc, That can be given time too as Spinners could plan more after WT.

As for editing, Getting Minwoo to edit is fine. And for Zombo's idea: It's not really that hard to edit something like that.. Just some multi screen stuff. Various things can be done with that idea too.
Zombo
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 14:02:45

ok so ppl say transitions have been used before

that's true

but so far, everybody's been using the same tricks, whether it be rolling the pen to then ext person, or just doing an aerial.

i think there is much more to transitions than that and we could show the rest of the world, what you can do with transitions.

also passing a pen around shows unity and teamwork, because obviously it needs planning with everyone involved, and it shows the symbolic idea of "sharing"
Outsmash
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 15:05:29

QUOTE (Zombo @ Feb 5 2009, 07:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ok so ppl say transitions have been used before

that's true

but so far, everybody's been using the same tricks, whether it be rolling the pen to then ext person, or just doing an aerial.

i think there is much more to transitions than that and we could show the rest of the world, what you can do with transitions.

also passing a pen around shows unity and teamwork, because obviously it needs planning with everyone involved, and it shows the symbolic idea of "sharing"

But maybe one kind of transition through out the video might get boring.

I just read your whole post now: I think the 2p2h thing and the A - C thing is really nice. But maybe we could also use different things/transitions.

And also if we have 16 (4x4) spinners it would be better as much more can be done.
Zombo
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 15:50:25

what nobody said we're using only one transition for whole collab

each transition will be unique and intersting
chaos
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 19:02:05

i like icepray`s editing and we should have like a vid of 2 ppl in 1 vid spinning together
JC
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 23:29:39

QUOTE (Guitrum @ Feb 4 2009, 11:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
uhmmmm i had 16 people sign up and only 3 send in videos... wasnt my fault...

It's the organizer's responsibility to make sure they get in their vids, how in the world is that not your fault? Sure, it's the spinner's responsibility to get the vids on time, but you as an organizer is responsible for reminding them and pushing them for their clips. I sure as wasn't going to get my clips for my team collab if I didn't send out a PM/IM to everyone everyday >.>''

and as for Zombo's idea... I don't like it -.-''
Sure, it's creative and I would love to see it as the center of focus of another collab, but I feel like UPSB 1st should be focused around UPSB's spinners, and a tad of creativity/good editing, rather than be a chance to use a new collab concept (which isn't entirely new...it's just an expansion of creative passing, which we see from time to time anyway)
-and in order for the passing to work... I don't really wanna see spin, stop, pass... I'd want to see a nice flow of Saizen --> kUzu passes... (and even so, i'm kinda against the entire 3x3 passing idea anyway)

time length... I think it was zombo who said under 2:30... but I dunno, that seems a bit short...
if it's possible, great, go with it--dunno if some spinners would be upset that they didn't make it though --but then again, quality > quantity
Saz'ect was short, had great editing (music synching was really nice), and great spinning...so that length would be fine, lets see how many good vids we end up getting though (max of 3:30, but goal = <2:30?? )

With this collab, I want it to be memorable, in a good way of course. I want it to make a lasting impression upon the other communities like Saz'ect and such has made on me.

I can't really come up with themes and ideas that we should be portraying, but unity's a possibility. I wanna hear more ideas first though =\ I'm having an issue coming up with how we could depict unity without using the 3x3 passing idea...

Music...I don't mind if it's foreign music, just no foreign words... (so japanese instrumental would be fine with me..)
Zombo
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 23:37:29

focus doesn't mean losing depth

whether we use 3x3 or not, the quality of the spinning depends on the spinners, it has no effect

having a good theme, good spinning, good music (sync), good editing, means your collab has more depth, in that in every time you watch it, you can pay attention to one aspect more closely and see that it was well done.

transitions is not a new idea, but no one took it the next level, so i think we should do it, partly in preparation of the next world cup, where I really want to see creative stuff in double videos.
Shadowserpant
Date: Thu, Feb 5 2009 23:38:05

oh and i was thinking about what zombo said...
i was thinking maybe we could utilize our left handers? one guy on one of the center screens of the 3x3x3 thing could do a 2p2h combo and pass it out to both sides, and each of us could do mirrored copy combos
it's complicated, i know, but i think we ought to try something very nice
pholord
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 00:29:43

QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ Feb 5 2009, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
oh and i was thinking about what zombo said...
i was thinking maybe we could utilize our left handers? one guy on one of the center screens of the 3x3x3 thing could do a 2p2h combo and pass it out to both sides, and each of us could do mirrored copy combos

what i dont like about that idea is that you are restricting what the spinner can do because no two spinners have the exact same style and style is what should be expresses most in this collab
Shadowserpant
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 00:39:05

yeah you're right
well maybe not copies, but two side by side videos? well, whatever we do, i think it should be unique, and well planned
Sadistic
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 00:49:59

The advanced spinners of UPSB should have more freedom to perform unique combos if they have one prepared, but if they are simply planning on doing a really high difficulty one, they should have no reason not to participate in a collaborative type combo
Fripãƒ¡ECãƒ„
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 01:24:07

Um...what do you guys want to achieve with the collab?

Show people PS? Represent UPSB? Do something new? Make a skilled collab?
pholord
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 01:32:54

QUOTE (Fripãƒ¡ECãƒ„ @ Feb 5 2009, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Um...what do you guys want to achieve with the collab?

Show people PS? Represent UPSB? Do something new? Make a skilled collab?

sounds like were trying to do all of em
Fripãƒ¡ECãƒ„
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 01:42:15

QUOTE (pholord @ Feb 5 2009, 06:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
sounds like were trying to do all of em

That's not gonna work...
pholord
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 02:02:08

were trying to skilfully represent upsb in a new way to showcase ps
Shadowserpant
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 02:14:43

QUOTE (Fripãƒ¡ECãƒ„ @ Feb 5 2009, 05:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's not gonna work...

why are you so freakin negative, why can't it work? of course it wont work if people like you won't even try because you don't think it will work.
Jamie Enns
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 02:38:24

Zombo,

taking something to the next level is exactly what we should avoid.

NEW CONCEPTS > revamped old concepts

BUT!!
maybe only two spinners do a creative transition
and maybe two spinners do a mirrored combo (two birds with one stone time wise)
and maybe another spinner pen juggles (psn cv's)
and maybe another spinner just tears up a regular combo

with variety, i believe we could make "transitions" work. but not a full collab, even if they are all different.

I say we keep keeep brainstorming and not lock into anything
Fripãƒ¡ECãƒ„
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 03:18:05

QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ Feb 5 2009, 07:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
why are you so freakin negative, why can't it work? of course it wont work if people like you won't even try because you don't think it will work.

You're annoying o_O

If you try to put ALL those things into ONE collab it just won't work. If you want to show PS to people who don't know it then you'll have make a collab with a lot of different styles, 2p2h. etc
When you put in the spinner square thingy it might seem wierd to people who see it for the first time.
Shadowserpant
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 03:20:47

because penspinning looks normal to people who see it the first time?
SJ
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 03:56:19

QUOTE (Fripãƒ¡ECãƒ„ @ Feb 5 2009, 07:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're annoying o_O

If you try to put ALL those things into ONE collab it just won't work. If you want to show PS to people who don't know it then you'll have make a collab with a lot of different styles, 2p2h. etc
When you put in the spinner square thingy it might seem wierd to people who see it for the first time.

the people who will see this collab are most likely people from upsb and other communities
Zombo
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 04:33:33

QUOTE (Jamie Enns @ Feb 5 2009, 09:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zombo,

taking something to the next level is exactly what we should avoid.

NEW CONCEPTS > revamped old concepts

BUT!!
maybe only two spinners do a creative transition
and maybe two spinners do a mirrored combo (two birds with one stone time wise)
and maybe another spinner pen juggles (psn cv's)
and maybe another spinner just tears up a regular combo

with variety, i believe we could make "transitions" work. but not a full collab, even if they are all different.

I say we keep keeep brainstorming and not lock into anything

the problem is, i dont feel like ppl don't really get just how much you can do with transitions, at first (like when I first introudced the concept of double matcheS) I wanted to just tell ppl "use transitions" and let them use their imagination, but it seems like most videos just do really simple transitions cuz they view it as a restriction more than a way to enhance their spinning. furthermore, the best transitions i've seen are from ppl at UPSB and the "worst" are from asian communities, seems like they're not into it yet.

the idea is not to tell ppl "look at our theme its the only thing you should care about", its more like we present the collab normally, and the viewers will slowly discover all the content in it. its not like we're gonna show a big square with 9 spinners and confuse them with it. it'll be more subtle and ppl who care about it will notice it and figure it out.

it wont look out of place, it wont affect spinning, it'll be like an extra.

if you just wanted a collab with good upsb spinners, it'll fulfill that function just fine, but for ppl that look deeper into it, they'll see more.
Jamie Enns
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 05:09:33

QUOTE (Zombo @ Feb 5 2009, 10:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
if you just wanted a collab with good upsb spinners, it'll fulfill that function just fine, but for ppl that look deeper into it, they'll see more.

I understand, i only wish that the deeper part was more creative, transitions are old, no matter how you do it.
I say we get away from old and discuss new. as i said:

new concepts > revamped old concepts
Sadistic
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 06:05:32

QUOTE (Jamie Enns @ Feb 6 2009, 01:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I understand, i only wish that the deeper part was more creative, transitions are old, no matter how you do it.

Did you read Zombo's comments? People have not used enough creativity in their transitions in the past....
Outsmash
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 11:00:18

Like someone else said, We should use the 3x3 idea and some others. And like Zombo said, it doesn't affect spinning.

@Jamie Enns: Not all ne concepts are revamped old concepts. We could try somethin really new that people haven't actually seen. It's not impossible
Zombo
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 16:57:18

QUOTE (Jamie Enns @ Feb 6 2009, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I understand, i only wish that the deeper part was more creative, transitions are old, no matter how you do it.
I say we get away from old and discuss new. as i said:

new concepts > revamped old concepts

there's gotta be a balance,

upsb collab should still be meant as an all-around collab that can be enjoyed by everyone, so I think we should pick someone which will not disturb the spinning too much.

there's also a pragmatic reason, which is to raise the standard for future double matches

for example, I would love to make a collab where combos are absolutely synchronized with music, but this is really difficult and the spinners wouldn't be able to spin very well with this limitation, so its better to either make a collab where you focus on this and don't care about the quality of spinning, or you wait a few years until ppl are good enough to make combos with precise timing.
Jamie Enns
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 18:11:12

this is frustrating...

@Outsmash: read my post, that's what i said.

@Sadistic: read my comment on "new > revamped" shock value goes way up with a NEW creative concept (that is yet to be thought of) vs an old concept done creatively. why? because it is 100% new, instead of 90% new. I took Zombo's posts into account.

@Zombo: help me make sense of what you just posted:
"there's gotta be a balance,"
--- how is a new concept unbalenced?

"upsb collab should still be meant as an all-around collab that can be enjoyed by everyone, so I think we should pick someone which will not disturb the spinning too much."
--- I have been against taking away from the spinning from the start

"there's also a pragmatic reason, which is to raise the standard for future double matches"
--- haha, agreed

"for example, I would love to make a collab where combos are absolutely synchronized with music, but this is really difficult and the spinners wouldn't be able to spin very well with this limitation, so its better to either make a collab where you focus on this and don't care about the quality of spinning, or you wait a few years until ppl are good enough to make combos with precise timing."
--- this is an example of what? how is this relevant to the rest of your post?
Zombo
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 18:54:13

music synchronization is an example of a novel concept which take away from the spinning in favor of the theme.

with a new concept, there's always a risk it wont work so well, with the spinning space i think its gonna be OK, if you can think of a totally original theme which is gonna be comfortable enough for the spinners then be my guest
Jamie Enns
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 20:17:37

QUOTE (Zombo @ Feb 6 2009, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
if you can think of a totally original theme which is gonna be comfortable enough for the spinners then be my guest

Thank you for clarification.

What i am truly trying to say is that WE (not I) should leave the doors open. Suggestions for concepts that will not take away from the spinning. Not only do I want to leave the doors open for new creative concepts I say that it should be a consensus too. By using an old hyped up concept, and not thinking up something new, it seems that you are taking an easy road out. Let's make this hard. because let's face it, when you say any one can make a regular collab with good spinners, you are equivocating the fact that any one can make ANY collab.

this is my opinion: creative, original, communal, new, difficult
the 1st plan was better.

i want to take part in the making of this collab, so i will back down.
but take it into account, be open to growth
Zombo
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 20:23:25

i never said the collab will have to use what i wrote

its only a suggestion

from my old posts:

QUOTE
my base goals are:

-> less than 2:30 minutes
-> themed
-> high quality
-> don't make a collab because others are doing one, make one because you have something special to show

base goal is to have a theme, doesnt say specifically what i wrote

QUOTE
Here's the concept I wanted to apply for the collab. I realize it is experimental and may not work, but it's a risk I'm willing to wager on.

I wanted to apply != we have to apply

the truth is i had that idea in mind for around 1.5 year now, so it might seem outdated, although im not convince anybody has made a truly great transition collab yet.
Awesome
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 21:53:50

TEQ is arranging a "pass on collab" which is essentially a collab out of transitions, mabye we should wait to see how that turns out before judging transitional collabs.

I think Zombos idea is a neat concept, but I doubt the average person will get it, I want to watch collabs, I pay attention to the spinning and not little details to like, how they pass. I think Zombo might be over estimating the average person here. It may be a really cool idea, but it would be confusing with out showing 9 squares I think, the old Keep It Simple Stupid, could apply here. I like the idea, but in the end it is a pen spinning video, I am not convinced on the depth people are willing to accept, its not some literary work you would analysis for english class.

Sure the people who really like it and watch it over and over again might get it, but you have to take in account how many people that will be. If say 4/10 people get the transitions the other 6/10 will just find it distracting. It won't have a mass appeal to it, which is fine, but an official collab is representing the board, we should try to appeal to as many people as possible.

I like the idea, but I think we will have to make it obvious what we are doing.

Also if this is going to happen, the spinners should be spinning the same pen that was passed to them. Transitions are cool, but they would be a lot more effective if it actually looked like the pen was passed. So agree on a specific mod/color scheme to use or have the spinners mail the pen to the person that they passed to.
Jamie Enns
Date: Fri, Feb 6 2009 22:50:59

QUOTE (Zombo @ Feb 6 2009, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i never said the collab will have to use what i wrote

its only a suggestion

from my old posts:

base goal is to have a theme, doesnt say specifically what i wrote

I wanted to apply != we have to apply

the truth is i had that idea in mind for around 1.5 year now, so it might seem outdated, although im not convince anybody has made a truly great transition collab yet.

haha, i just back tracked,
sorry i went off topic-ish, you are right, tis just a thought

but for the record:
-1 transitions
+1 new idea

i'm working on one atm
Zombo
Date: Sat, Feb 7 2009 00:23:41

QUOTE (Awesome @ Feb 6 2009, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
TEQ is arranging a "pass on collab" which is essentially a collab out of transitions, mabye we should wait to see how that turns out before judging transitional collabs.

I think Zombos idea is a neat concept, but I doubt the average person will get it, I want to watch collabs, I pay attention to the spinning and not little details to like, how they pass. I think Zombo might be over estimating the average person here. It may be a really cool idea, but it would be confusing with out showing 9 squares I think, the old Keep It Simple Stupid, could apply here. I like the idea, but in the end it is a pen spinning video, I am not convinced on the depth people are willing to accept, its not some literary work you would analysis for english class.

Sure the people who really like it and watch it over and over again might get it, but you have to take in account how many people that will be. If say 4/10 people get the transitions the other 6/10 will just find it distracting. It won't have a mass appeal to it, which is fine, but an official collab is representing the board, we should try to appeal to as many people as possible.

I like the idea, but I think we will have to make it obvious what we are doing.

Also if this is going to happen, the spinners should be spinning the same pen that was passed to them. Transitions are cool, but they would be a lot more effective if it actually looked like the pen was passed. So agree on a specific mod/color scheme to use or have the spinners mail the pen to the person that they passed to.

uhh isnt this what i said by having depth? ppl who will get it will appreciate the depth, ppl who dont care will simply focus on spinning. since the theme is managable enough that it wont detract from the quality of spinning, it's apprecialbe by everyone.

the theme is transparent enough that if you choose not to care u wont be bothered by it.
Awesome
Date: Sat, Feb 7 2009 00:48:48

But to have that idea work automatically you limited the combos to start with a catch, and end with a pass. Which limits the spinners a bit, also if you didn't get the theme it would just look just like a the pass on collab presumably, assuming it gets released. That makes the theme transitions instead of UPSB, which is the title of the collab. I like the idea, but don't we want the focus on UPSB instead of an old idea with good spinners. Which would be the impression the people who don't get the depth part would get.
Zombo
Date: Sat, Feb 7 2009 02:44:38

QUOTE
But to have that idea work automatically you limited the combos to start with a catch, and end with a pass. Which limits the spinners a bit, also if you didn't get the theme it would just look just like a the pass on collab presumably, assuming it gets released.

not really... even in normal transitions, one personally can easily make a full combo and add extra actions after the combo is finished to transition

QUOTE
That makes the theme transitions instead of UPSB, which is the title of the collab.

what, how can the theme of a collab be UPSB, that's like saying the theme is Pen Spinning. UPSB Official Collab means its a collab made by UPSB, its content is something else.
Awesome
Date: Sat, Feb 7 2009 04:02:41

But to make a transition after the combos done, either it doesn't flow, or it limits the finisher to something that ends in a spinnable position, to allow for a smooth toss, roll etc. a pause for transisitons is like a pause in spinning, it takes away from actual spinning time. So either you limit the spinners ability to perform hard creative finishers, or create pauses in the collab as the spinner prepares to "pass" the pen.

and what I meant was that the focus isn't on the spinning ability of UPSB, but rather the passes and fancy editing. Shouldn't this be showing off the spinning of UPSB's finest, instead of how we can play catch with our pens and use fancy transisiton effects?

I just think it might be better to play it safe and just have a generic collab and let creative combos do the work.
Zombo
Date: Sat, Feb 7 2009 05:31:58

QUOTE (Awesome @ Feb 6 2009, 11:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But to make a transition after the combos done, either it doesn't flow, or it limits the finisher to something that ends in a spinnable position, to allow for a smooth toss, roll etc. a pause for transisitons is like a pause in spinning, it takes away from actual spinning time. So either you limit the spinners ability to perform hard creative finishers, or create pauses in the collab as the spinner prepares to "pass" the pen.

and what I meant was that the focus isn't on the spinning ability of UPSB, but rather the passes and fancy editing. Shouldn't this be showing off the spinning of UPSB's finest, instead of how we can play catch with our pens and use fancy transisiton effects?

I just think it might be better to play it safe and just have a generic collab and let creative combos do the work.

i already said that having depth, doesnt mean focusing and losing all other aspects of a collab. by having a theme, we are losing very little in terms of spinning

i disagree that transitions will detract from the quality of spinning.

this is because the transitions will be carefully crafted to exploit the particular strength of each spinner. if some spinner has a sick finisher that cannot be transitioned easily, maybe we can arrange for him to be last or find another way around it.
Awesome
Date: Sat, Feb 7 2009 05:42:01

mabye... but you would need organization and discipline far beyond from what I've seen on UPSB

if you can dream it you can do it I guess
xavator18
Date: Sat, Feb 7 2009 08:06:18

well, IMO, transitions are ok. And not all finishers have to end with a spinnable move like Zombo said. If some guy spins with a hardcore ending, then we stop the transitions at that point, and continue [start?] with a new kind of transitions.

It's not that we want to make one whole video of lets say 12 spinners spinning through 12 transitions right? that would be insane. We could split them into different styles, say, 6 with transitions, another handful of single videos and [if possible but not a must] tag videos, like one spinner passing to another spinner after a trick. At least 2 of them.

I mean, it's a UPSB thing. Let us think what is the main idea of making this UPSB 1st. Is it to:-

1. Show the world what is Pen Spinning
2. Promote UPSB???
3. Portray how versatile our spinners are? or
4. Is it a competitive way to show which board is better?

In this case, it is impossible to stick to a theme, because IF we DO have a theme, wouldn't it limit the ways and styles that we can spin?

For me, I see this UPSB First as a way to show how good and versatile are UPSB Pen Spinners, at the same time revealing the art of Pen Spinning to everyone. Limiting the spinning style/moves in any way will definitely affect the purpose of this Collab.

Then, it's just my opinion...
Tim
Date: Sat, Feb 7 2009 10:16:21

QUOTE (Awesome @ Feb 7 2009, 05:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think Zombos idea is a neat concept, but I doubt the average person will get it, I want to watch collabs, I pay attention to the spinning and not little details to like, how they pass. I think Zombo might be over estimating the average person here. It may be a really cool idea, but it would be confusing with out showing 9 squares I think, the old Keep It Simple Stupid, could apply here. I like the idea, but in the end it is a pen spinning video, I am not convinced on the depth people are willing to accept, its not some literary work you would analysis for english class.

It's true that most people won't notice 9 squares, but if you don't notice that the pen enters at the same place that it exited then you're retarded.
nateiskewl
Date: Wed, Feb 11 2009 16:45:04

You guys are really making this too complicated. Do it just like any other community. Make videos, filter videos, put to music, add video effects.

Really. This is what EVERYONE does, we just need to get this done already.
Zombo
Date: Wed, Feb 11 2009 17:23:56

QUOTE (nateiskewl @ Feb 11 2009, 11:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You guys are really making this too complicated. Do it just like any other community. Make videos, filter videos, put to music, add video effects.

Really. This is what EVERYONE does, we just need to get this done already.

and whats the point of doing that?
sangara
Date: Wed, Feb 11 2009 18:20:58

QUOTE (nateiskewl @ Feb 11 2009, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You guys are really making this too complicated. Do it just like any other community. Make videos, filter videos, put to music, add video effects.

Really. This is what EVERYONE does, we just need to get this done already.

Nate we've tried that pitch already, as you can see it hasn't worked, so we moved on.
Thewave
Date: Wed, Feb 11 2009 18:47:02

I like the concept that Zombo proposed.
Now- to work on some problems:
1. People not getting it- at the beginning show the 9 spinners (or how much there will be) in a box doing some random combo- that will make them understand the perception we're going to use. If that's not enough you can always try and show the pen flying through the screens in the square mode showing the pen moving in the exact direction of it's throw/pass and moving to the designated spot.
2. This collab and it's idea is innovative, if there will be big names you can make all kinds of transitions and teamwork that were never done before. i liked Zombo's idea of throwing 2 pens at different directions and then 2 people starting to spin them- it shows creativity, it's something new.
3. About the editor playing a major role- yes, and I think it's good, also the spinners will play a major role organizing all this.

Now comes the execution- The spinners will have to be extremely coordinated and also the editor will have to get involved more than just get the videos and organize them.
So the question here is this- are there enough people who are commited to this project willing to dedicate some time (and it will be a hefty amount of time) to execute this project?

I for one am willing to try though my spinning level is less than medicore...
nateiskewl
Date: Wed, Feb 11 2009 22:55:17

QUOTE (Zombo @ Feb 11 2009, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
and whats the point of doing that?

To make a nice video?

And sorry sangara, I just didn't feel like reading through five pages of noob posts.
Zombo
Date: Thu, Feb 12 2009 01:43:47

alright well

when the time is right, we'll put up a vote, we'll do whatever the people of upsb wants since its their collab.