UPSB v3
Board Comments / Something Isn't Right
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Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 09:00:49
Resolved.
Spoiler: -
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 09:06:19
you really make a good point. I believe this will be well considered by the admins.
.gif)
I really admire you for doing this. -
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 09:32:47
Even if well considered i doubt anything would turn out good.
IF Zombo is really as extreme as what iMatt had said.
He may just move on.
You see, if Zombo don't do anything ; step down or Ban iMatt.
iMatt is going to leave.
This does not improve the community.
Zombo does not have to step up and solve and iMatt will leave on his own account.
and soon enough this issue will be over everyone will just forget.
and iMatt.
I doubt its worth it to just leave like that even though Zombo is that extreme.
Maybe just like Eso.
Tune down a little and not bother about how they manage the Forum.
Its their task afterall.
If is doesnt improve the members will see for themselves and have decision of their own.
Change forum? Leave UPSB? Be a casual spinner?
anything
P.S : Lets just hope no one gets Banned. -
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 09:48:47
I don't know why you would get any negative comments for this post, Im all for freedom of speech and opinion.
I agree with you that most of the mods haven't been doing the best of their ability, half because of I have been one of them untill recently. My major absences without notifying the board and leaving staff members in the dark it's not professional at all and isn't a good look on the community nor myself. I'm trying to turn that around now and hope noone has any problems with that :/.
You have to keep in mind that sometimes cleaning up some threads, and removing a few unappropriate topics is all that needs to be done for a day. Sure spamming, decision-making, etc happens but on such a big board, it's sometimes hard to find. I try to make a habit of going into every forum in every category and within that, every thread. But its majorly time consuming, and most of the time I get half way and have to leave.QUOTEIf there is a problem with a certain member, then take it up with them via PM or other means, send a message saying why set person was banned or given a warning to, lay down some ground rules, ask them why they did that...etc.
When a member breaks a rule a warning is obviously given out, when given a warning a description is left as to why they got the warning & when they got the warning. I'm pretty sure each member can check their own warning level and find out why they got warned. I do agree with that a member should be given a reason as to why they were banned via email or board notification.
Its the internet, everything is text so that opens millions of ways to interperate things people post. Such as the case you stated, sarcasm, which is probably one of the most unnoticable things on the net. This is why emoticons were created, to show what mood your in when saying things which make your mood questionable. I agree with you that is was unfair of Kam to ban anonymous for a one off comment. But thats an issue involving Kam himself so I'm not going to comment on it seeing as I don't know the full story.QUOTEModerator selection, how does this take place? Why is not described?
Staff don't pick moderators out of the blue and dont warn others. A private thread is created discussing if the member would be fit enough to play the new roll of a staff member.
All the other sections of the post don't relate to me or I cant reply on them as of yet seeing as I havent spoken to any other staff yet, but I'll leave with this.
This is a community, and like all communities, their will always be down sides and problems. A perfect community does not exsist. Seeing as every member here has free will, perfection is impossible. Us staff dont promise perfection but we do promise improvement, and sometimes that comes slowly and through time, no matter how impossible it may seem.
UPSB is family. -
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 10:14:35
I agree to some parts which i've already know and no comment for some parts which i don't know such as mods who online and who don't as much, penwish sticky thread, unlimited msg inbox, etc. because i usually don't check who is online when i come here and i usually go to that few particular forums only. And since quite some time ago I don't go pens section if i have no need.
I don't have any particular comment though i agree to some parts. BTW, as for Zombo, what you have described him as, i think that is what he is since long time ago, since UPSB2. He has given me the impression that he is a realistic being person since long time ago, i dont really know how to describe him accurately but from the impression i got from him unintentionally, I don't think he will ban you but i also don't think he will be bothered if you leave. That might be wrong because it's just what i personally think what kind of person he is. -
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 10:22:14
I think that the time has come when UPSB must decide which way it wants to branch, into a serious Pen Spinning board, or stay in a relaxed community like it has been since... as far as I know.
Some of what you said certainly is concerning, but let's not forget perspectives, before everyone starts taking sides it would be wise to hear Zombo's and other mods' perspectives on the matter.
To be honest, the moderators group does seem like a rather tight group to enter into, but I'm not sure. However, if it is truly believed that the best person for the job was picked, then I am all for it.
(Note: I have no desire whatsoever to be a moderator [although I don't mind the AusClan forum] so I will not comment on forcing more responsibility on moderators. I advise those of you who would not be willing to do what you suggest [if you were a mod], to do the same] -
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 10:30:33
I believe unlimited inbox for mods is so that in case of an emergency, if their inbox has alr reached 50, they can still get more PMs? idk.
as for why Tek gets unlimited inbox, it may be because of the recent UPSB RSVP orders. i mean , 250 of them, 4 each, theres going to be like 60 PMs give or take and you cant expect Tek to delete his whole inbox just for that.
but idk really, just my take on things, i dont know the whole story -
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 10:40:37
I feel it's kinda unfair that some people get access to certain board features like unlimited PMs etc.. (excluding moderator powers in certain forums).
Makes you wish you were friends with a mod or admin in real life. -
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 10:43:37
Wow, this is pretty much only against Zombo.
and yea.. Half the mods are inactive or hardly do anything. -
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 14:57:01
"I personally think there needs to be some veto-power to the spinners here. I've noticed personally and second handed that the mods aren't really doing their job to the fullest extent or even holding the forward motion of where this board could and should be moving. Flaming isn't dealt with, board-fighting, spamming, decision-making, and the list continues on."
Maybe we've been lenient with flaming yes, but for spamming we've been doing our job I think. Use the report feature to help us.
"The most I've seen out of a given moderator lately is cleaning up some threads or removing some void-topics."
A mod's job is not something that is always tangible, how can you tell a post is deleted if you've never seen it in the first place.
"If there is a problem with a certain member, then take it up with them via PM or other means, send a message saying why set person was banned or given a warning to, lay down some ground rules, ask them why they did that...etc. I don't think it's fair to merely rid of a member purely based on one's opinion. It's one thing to make quick judgments about a certain action, but wouldn't it make more sense to record the offense and have multiple moderators look at it and agree on an acceptable punishment? Now I am willing to bet that by now one wonders what actions bring me to these kind of conclusions?"
How do you know we're not doing that? All bans decisions are not made alone. When we warn people, it means we send out PMs with what people are doing wrong. When people are about to get suspended. We'll tell them, "the next infraction, and you're out". The only case where we'll deal relatively swiftly is in scammer situations. When someone is obviously trying to scam, we'll inquire but if it's obvious, we'll just ban and tell the person.
"Now keep in mind, I've been on Pen-Spinning boards for a little over 3-years now and this is not a sudden realization of sorts, this has been a gradual thing which I think is bringing down the board. One example, a few months ago I was browsing the boards like usual (I'm a daily on here) and there was a conversation going on the shoutbox pertaining to a random nature of joking(which is quite common to see). There was no flaming that had been done, but Kam had come onto the board and was on the shoutbox. People began talking to him about normal stuff etc. etc., but what ended up happening was "anonymous-member" (for sake of privacy) made a sarcastic comment towards him intended to be a funny statement. Previous to this Kam had been talking about how bad his day was and how he's in a rough mood. After this statement, Kam took it the wrong way and ended up banning "anonymous-member" purely based on a statement taken the wrong way. Then "anonymous-member" was then banned for two weeks over something which nobody else could quite understand. That's unacceptable mod behavior, and then to reason the statement being a direct insult or flame he says he is, "Not in a good mod and is not wanting to deal with jokes." This not meant to pick on Kam, this is JUST an example."
I'm not so sure of what the circumstances, but since I have not been there, I trust kam's decision. Obviously, shoutbox bans decisions do not go through other moderators because the mod needs to intervene quickly to stop the situation. We do report every ban later and with reasoning, so that people are aware of who is banned, but because the shoutbox messages go through quickly, it will be difficult to judge. In general, moderating the shoutbox is tricky.
Plus, there's nothing that prevents the person to file a complaint to the mods, since they're not even banned from using other board features like PMs. If there's an error, we will correct it, like we did in the past.
"Zombo, throughout the years of being on the board I've seen him progressively get more and more uptight about things. Read the public service announcement(http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=17635), in almost all of his responses he replies with negative statements and shooting down some potentially good ideas. Trying to make a point or simply clarify WHY things should be a certain way is understandable up to a certain point, but to say the board HASN'T changed or OBVIOUSLY large issues are not of concern, what does that say about him?"
I already explained in that thread why some ideas are good, why some are not. I have to calm people down, if the moderators look panicked, how is this going to help anything. Only if we are cool can we solve the problems.
"In clarification here, this is again not to flame or say the mods are bad, horrible, dumb, and lazy people. For lack of a better term, conservative is the best way I can put it. The mindset of, "I like it how it is, when it is, and where it is. Anything that would have to do with a team-effort or a shift of powers or even a little bit of work immediately is shot down."
I don't agree with the shift of powers part. I reiterated many times in the other thread that I want to encourage regular members to be more active and start more projects. I want people to be less dependent on moderators.
"I personally have not seen any of the following actually do anything in quite some-time: Rorix, K4S, TurbulentTurtle, Ivan, Eburt, tolhz, nhk9."
We rarely remove moderators from their position, in the off-chance that they come back or that they lurk the forums and thus able to do the odd moderation here and there. Rorix is actually one of our most active moderators, you obviously don't see much of him because he lives on the other side of the world. K4S, while less active than before, still does his job. The others haven't really moderated since UPSB3 started, so they're non-factors. BTW Sfsr is not a mod. I think we should try and not hire people that are already admins/mods of other forums because the responsability might be too much.
We try to hire moderators when good candidates are available and when there is a need. I consult with moderators frequently to ask for recommendations and what sections are understaffed. Unfortunately, sometimes there no right people for the job.QUOTE1.) The Issue with Penwish
I've talked to Eric about this quite frequently. First off, Zombo denied Penwish's request to become a moderator,
I refused because at the time I believed that he was too busy to moderate properly. After all, he has a job and he has to take care of the store. I didn't want moderating to be burden for him.
There's a difference between requesting moderating POWERS and requesting to become a MODERATOR.
As I understood it, Penwish wanted to be a moderator, which means having the responsability of moderating posts like other mods do. If he wants moderating POWERS, then yes we can consider it.QUOTErefusal to update a STICKY thread more than once a day
This is a limitation of the bump. If penwish has an issue with this, he should directly request a way to circumvent this. I've suggested to simply edit his posts.QUOTE, and to top it off the UPSB RSVPS. The issue with those being, Zombo wanted a majority of profit off a minimal investment of another. If you want numbers, take it up with Zombo, he knows if he's willing to tell HONESTLY. I find that completely selfish in every aspect.
Seriously? I just threw one number out there. The reasoning was that since Penwish sells regular UPSBs at $1.25, if we can sell at $2.25, we'd make $1 off what Penwish normally makes on regular RSVPs. I'm not a commercant, I don't deal with this kind of stuff normally. Penwish then tells me it's not a good deal for him. That's fine, I'm willing to negotiate, so I told him to fix his price first and we'll see what we can do. I've said this many times to Penwish, TEK and others involved: our goal is to cover all expenses every month. I'm not making any money on this.QUOTEWhat this makes me question is why is Zombo regarded as such a high power? I can't honestly figure out why, perhaps its a feeling of not being able to handle when other people step up to him. If we appose him or question him, he threatens to ban, and the reign continues.
I have no idea where you're getting this from. I've never banned anybody just for opposing me.QUOTENow, the first part of being not allowing a CORE-SPONSOR of UPSB a higher-status of sorts seems questionable. One would think that a person of such important needs some sort of recognition badge, even if its merely to scout over the trade/buying section where he is 100% knowledgeable in how shipping/postal/buying/values work. The next part to this, the Sticky updates. Why can't Penwish (an official sponsor that is trusted) update a STICKIED thread more than once a day? What POSSIBLE harm could that even do? Heaven forbid he answers our questions and posts about new products with information. Absolutely absurd.
You're makign this a bigger deal than what it is. If Penwish wants more powers, he can talk to me directly about it, I don't think he needs you to tell me that.QUOTEWhy is that TEK and a number of select others get Unlimited-message in-boxes and other frequent traders can't? Or unlimited post updates without consequence? Especially when these privileges are reserved for MODERATORS ONLY! What grounds does a mod have on saying who is deserving of more freedoms and luxuries than others? Honestly, I think none, It is really quite the biased eye to give and take privileges on a closed consensus of rules.
TEK got unlimited PMs because of the UPSB RSVPs sale. As simple as that. Nobody has unlimited post updates except mods.QUOTEModerator selection, how does this take place? Why is not described? How does one end up becoming a mod in the first place? All are questions that never get answered.
When someone asked, I replied here: http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?s=&am...st&p=241317QUOTENow I will say I have nothing against Stevieboy7 and I don't argue his selection, but I argue HOW he was selected. After many names began being tossed around the mod-lounge, how did they end up with him as a candidate when there are plenty of others that would make a more suitable choice based on experience. This is not to suggest I am SUCH A BETTER CANDIDATE, but to express how my application was denied. After many of the mods had pushed for me to get onto the beta-mod, ZOMBO rejected it. Why? Because of this, I QUOTE, "iMatt is not suitable for moderator because he tends to speak his mind more freely." IS THAT NOT WHAT A MOD IS SUPPOSED TO DO IN THE FIRST PLACE? No offense, but stevieboy7 flames more people than I ever have. How is that a justified reason? Easy, IT'S NOT. Heaven forbid I take up ACTUAL ISSUES. Now what I find more saddening is that I think I was rejected purely based on being a threat for whatever reason. I digress.
That's funny, because me and other mods discussed who should be the next moderator and the first name I mentionned is you (2 days ago). We discussed your strengths and weaknesses. Your name has been floating around before K4S was hired, and I was the first to suggest you. And people said they prefered K4S over you, so that's what we did.
The second time we needed a mod was when outlander was hired. You were recommended by 1 moderator. But the next reply (and it's not mine) was that "iMatt would be alright, but there are times when he definitely goes out of line in terms of ranting/hating. He has qualities to be a good moderator but at the same time I could see him overstepping some boundaries."
I think at the time, there was a little controversy surrounding you, so at the time, it didn't feel like a good decision to hire you. So instead we went with Outlander.
The third time, I needed someone who would be good at tracking down scammers. THat was our need. The first name that came to mind to me is Stevieboy7. So that's why we picked him. Straightforward.
Also you have to remember that even though we pick first, there's a safety net, and that's the public's evaluation. It has happened in the past that someone got denied, so the final say is still the public.
BTW, your quote is totally off. I never said that. What I wrote was "I'm not too high on iMatt because he's sometimes too controversial, I think Outlander would be a much better option." which was in response to the previous quote I mentionned.QUOTEHow come all new ideas get shot down from him? How come he's so hyper-critical of everything that might have the possibility of being innovative? It's one thing to be realistic, but another to be preventative, which is exactly is what's happening. Any changes suggested to the board (Look at Xero's post for good reference: http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=17635 ) he shoots down, personally I think it's because he IS lazy. Either his mind all of sudden opens to dynamically changing ideas and look at the long run of things to see how there might be something of benefit. This I find to be a very large anchor on the boat to further the hobby of pen-spinning. This has been going on for years, It really needs to change.
Alright then, let's look at the suggestions that came in that site. Xero's first post has none, only problems.
-> People suggesting UPSB Collab: I already said we're gonna do this after WT09.
-> People suggesting high-prized tournament: I explained we don't have the funds for this now, but I instead suggested members to proactive and organize their own tournaments.
-> Improved search: I merely mentionned that search was improved, implying it would be difficult to improve it even more.
-> Live tournaments: I like them, but I don't think it's a realistic option right now.
-> Making a USA/Canadian board: I don't really its usefulness. I don't see how it helps... the problem with UPSB collab selection is not that some people are only on UPSB or not, but whether we want a collab of the best skill possible, or limit it only to true UPSB members.
-> Removing "bad" teams: I explained it's a pretentious exercise to judge teams...
-> "people sign up for a collab should actually turn in a video.": I didn't comment on this, but it's obvious people should turn in video.
-> Ratio of OT/real posts: This is the only suggestion that I absolutely shot down, because it's very clear to me it will increase spam on the main boards.
-> Filtering collabs: Isn't the minor/major sections doing this already?
I really don't see where you say I outright refuse everything... only 1.QUOTE"If you see as I see, and feel as I feel." Vote for something better. At this point, If I don't see anything happen soon, I will LEAVE upsb. This sort of thing is intolerable in my mind.
P.S. Zombo, I'm assuming your going to read this, if you want to ban me, FINE, that will just show exactly what sort of moderator you are. Do not send me PM's, this is a community discussion.
I welcome diverging opinions. I'd rather have people say their opinion directly to my face than hide their feelings, because then it's not possible for me to perceive everything. I disagree on a few points though, like how you portray me as someone who will ban all dissidents. I've never done that in my moderating career. You say I'm conservative, but I believe I've already contributed a lot to Pen Spinning and I personally started a lot of projects.
As far as I'm concerned, this thread does not impact or maybe even improve my evaluation of you. However, there are elements in this thread where you base yourself on rumours to make your opinion (e.g. the quote), and as a moderator, you would need certainty before acting. You're jumping to a lot of conclusions here.
If the public think I'm not suited to run this board anymore, I will step down without hesitation. I'm not clinging to this position because I want power, but because I want the best for the community. My personal position is absolutely not a issue for me.
But my main message still remains: regular members have to be more engaged. They have to start projects on their own and not rely on the mods to do them. Otherwise it won't solve the issue. -
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 18:51:12
With respects to some of the items imatt suggested there really is no this is right this is wrong. Like everything else in life, everything is debatable. With that said, I Zombo and I did come to a somewhat inconclusive conclusion more or less so things should work out fine. I just felt that what was offered was a lot less lucrative that what similar jetpens was offered in the past and I did before thing it was a bit unreasonable considering i'm not putting a huge giant logo on the front page. I understand that donations have been slow and upsb needs money but there has to be a medium between the amount of work and investment I put in and the amount upsb gets. I have no issues with giving upsb a larger cut of the pie as long as there is equal or greater monetary investment which at this point is 0. I do feel confident as things start rolling out as long as everyone is cooperative there will be more than enough to pay for the server bills and put a little on the side for the board to do whatever with.
Getting along is more important than these details and for the most part it's been good. I do believe the mods need to be re hauled or improved upon. many of the mods are inactive and there are countless times where there's a ton of people on the board but zero mods so there is definitely some underemployment in that respects.
More transparency in how why people were accepted or denied as admins would be nice too to see what attributes are desired.
But overall I support Zombo and UPSB. I do think some tweaks are needed but to each his own
.
UPSB is still and probably will be the best board for international commingling. -
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 19:00:08QUOTE (Penwish @ Feb 26 2009, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>With respects to some of the items imatt suggested there really is no this is right this is wrong. Like everything else in life, everything is debatable. With that said, I Zombo and I did come to a somewhat inconclusive conclusion more or less so things should work out fine. I just felt that what was offered was a lot less lucrative that what similar jetpens was offered in the past and I did before thing it was a bit unreasonable considering i'm not putting a huge giant logo on the front page. I understand that donations have been slow and upsb needs money but there has to be a medium between the amount of work and investment I put in and the amount upsb gets. I have no issues with giving upsb a larger cut of the pie as long as there is equal or greater monetary investment which at this point is 0. I do feel confident as things start rolling out as long as everyone is cooperative there will be more than enough to pay for the server bills and put a little on the side for the board to do whatever with.
I'm sure we will reach an agreement. We only negotiate briefly and I only threw one number out. There's no rush to solve this now because we're still waiting on other things and the pre-sale is still going on.QUOTEGetting along is more important than these details and for the most part it's been good. I do believe the mods need to be re hauled or improved upon. many of the mods are inactive and there are countless times where there's a ton of people on the board but zero mods so there is definitely some underemployment in that respects.
It's all about getting the right people for the job. Someone can be a good mod candidate, but if it doesn't fit or needs we can't do anything about it. Likewise, if we have a big need and there's no candidate for it, we're not gonna give someone a job he's not suited for.
For example, our mods are predominantly in NA. That means coverage for Asia is limited. Right now, only rockstar and Rorix would be up at that time. That means we would need more moderators from those regions.QUOTEMore transparency in how why people were accepted or denied as admins would be nice too to see what attributes are desired.
I always explain in the first post of the "welcome" thread why someone is picked. For Stevieboy, I clearly wrote "regulating trades" and "catching scammers".
Also, let me make it clear. The reason I know Penwish wants to be moderator is because kam briefly mentionned it. I have NEVER received, directly or indirectly, any application whatsoever from iMatt. For others, I have received 2 applications and that's it. We are not accepting applications anyway, but if you're going to send one, at least make sure it gets to the right person. You can't say I turned down your application if I never read it in the first place!
It's possible that this is due to a lack of communication from the staff to spread such information. If that is the case, then I apologize and I will fix this problem, but the quickest way to reach me is to talk to me directly. -
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 20:00:12
@Zombo
One, I appreciate the honesty.
Two, I'm glad you could clarify a number of things, but these things are also what are perceived externally. Besides a few of own issues, these are things a number of members have noticed otherwise I wouldn't of posted this in the first place; I just happened to be the only one who actually said anything about it.
------------------------------------------
Maybe for those who got afraid of my Text-block, here's a quick of what I want to get at.
Maybe my block of text shunned a few points that I didn't clarify enough.
1.) Make the board a bit more professional.
As much as it is nice to have an open community with everything, there needs to be some line drawn as to why this board was here in the first place. Penspinning.
(I can expand on later if need be)
2.) Moderators could do a bit more.
Community projects are one thing, but for some ideas to work, moderators are the only ones with direct access to the forum-base. Simple things like refining the search more (yes I know it has been refined, but it really isn't all that efficient still.) can really only be done by a select few. Honestly it shouldn't be anymore than a few programming algorithms and post re-routing forum indexing could solve that if the time is put into it. Unfortunately moderators and more in particular xshadowfire are the ones who have access to doing so.
3.) Periodical updates
Put out notices of what changes have been done to the board every few weeks, what kind of things are we to look forward to? What exactly is happening behind the scenes? A few notices here and there couldn't hurt.
4.) Code of Conduct Changes
This really needs to be addressed and quickly. A new system of moderation, approval, and decision-making. Right now it seems very finicky and nit-picky as I've described previously in my original block of text.QUOTEGetting along is more important than these details and for the most part it's been good. I do believe the mods need to be re hauled or improved upon. many of the mods are inactive and there are countless times where there's a ton of people on the board but zero mods so there is definitely some underemployment in that respects.
I agree 110% with this and I feel like it is the reason why this board isn't up to par with some of the others in terms of being productive and forward thinking.
-
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 20:21:13QUOTE (iMatt @ Feb 26 2009, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Two, I'm glad you could clarify a number of things, but these things are also what are perceived externally. Besides a few of own issues, these are things a
number of members have noticed otherwise I wouldn't of posted this in the first place; I just happened to be the only one who actually said anything about it.
I think it's a natural process for rumors to spread. Unfortunately if I'm not aware of them then I can't comment on them, so if someone point them out like you did, that's actually a good thing. I don't want any misconceptions.QUOTE1.) Make the board a bit more professional.
As much as it is nice to have an open community with everything, there needs to be some line drawn as to why this board was here in the first place. Penspinning.
I always made it clear. The only focus of this board is pen spinning. And it is divided into two subojectives:
1) provide a community for people who don't have their own communities
2) provide an international portal for people to get their information/communication, regardless of your own board.
I think this is what UPSB has been primarily used for and to that effect, it's been successful. We have people coming from other communities getting their information here and we have developped our own community.QUOTE2.) Moderators could do a bit more.
Community projects are one thing, but for some ideas to work, moderators are the only ones with direct access to the forum-base. Simple things like refining the search more (yes I know it has been refined, but it really isn't all that efficient still.) can really only be done by a select few. Honestly it shouldn't be anymore than a few programming algorithms and post re-routing forum indexing could solve that if the time is put into it. Unfortunately moderators and more in particular xshadowfire are the ones who have access to doing so.
In my opinion, there are three (possibly overlapping) kinds of moderators: those that monitor the board, those that think of projects, those that deal with the technical aspects. When we hire someone, it's usually for a reason. For example, we hired Rorix to moderate the board in his time zone. I don't expect him to do more than that. That is his job. Lately we've been hired a lot of people from the first kind, because the board is growing fast and we need to cope with spam.
To me there's a hierarchy in the development of a board: first you need technical moderators, so that they can set up the board and fix any issues. Then you need monitoring moderators, who can make sure the board stable. Once you got all that, then you can start thinking forward. There's no point opening new projects if the board is in chaos. You need a solid foundation.
You talk about refining search, but you don't explain why. The old search engine was a bit too rigid and couldn't find the right keywords, so we changed to an off-the-shelf search engine called Sphinx. As far as I'm concerned, if you know how to search, then there shouldn't be any problem.
xshadowfire would be one the doing those kind of improvements, but he's pretty busy right now and he has to finish work on the ladder system first.QUOTE3.) Periodical updates
Put out notices of what changes have been done to the board every few weeks, what kind of things are we to look forward to? What exactly is happening behind the scenes? A few notices here and there couldn't hurt.
There are some things we want to keep as surprise. Others we will share. We always polls for major decisions like choice of color of UPSB RSVP, or selection of WT09 participants. For other stuff, usually it's from a feedback that was public and then implemented.
Right now we're working on the UPSB RSVPs and everybody know that.QUOTE4.) Code of Conduct Changes
This really needs to be addressed and quickly. A new system of moderation, approval, and decision-making. Right now it seems very finicky and nit-picky as
I've described previously in my original block of text.
I don't really know what you're talking about. I already explained how moderation works, decision-making is always by consensus in the mod lounge, approval of what? And you also said I shot down all the suggestions in Xero's post and I already refuted this point.QUOTEI agree 110% with this and I feel like it is the reason why this board isn't up to par with some of the others in terms of being productive and forward thinking.
Like I said, I can't hire people that are not suited for the needs. -
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 20:56:45QUOTEIn my opinion, there are three (possibly overlapping) kinds of moderators: those that monitor the board, those that think of projects, those that deal with the technical aspects. When we hire someone, it's usually for a reason. For example, we hired Rorix to moderate the board in his time zone. I don't expect him to do more than that. That is his job. Lately we've been hired a lot of people from the first kind, because the board is growing fast and we need to cope with spam.
Then hire more of the other kind, there are more than plenty of candidates on this board with the technical skills to do. Even for those who create projects, I can think of a good number of spinners who'd be more than enthusiastic at coming up with ideas. I understand that's part of research, but majority of the RD has been well dead, there should be a bit of cleaning done there. Besides that I think there needs to be some moderator/community co-op in tackling some of these. Maybe even if it comes down to it, a few moderators to be there as a representative of the spinners. Quite literally a small republic to be perfectly honest. There really needs to be a bridge of communication between both sides.QUOTELike I said, I can't hire people that are not suited for the needs.
But this goes back to my point, what ARE the needs? Be specific, let the community know. The community isn't informed as to what is needed. Then who exactly is to judge WHO is suitable or not?
Maybe this is a misunderstanding, but I thought YOU didn't chose candidates. -
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 21:13:20QUOTE (iMatt @ Feb 26 2009, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>3.) Periodical updates
Put out notices of what changes have been done to the board every few weeks, what kind of things are we to look forward to? What exactly is happening behind the scenes? A few notices here and there couldn't hurt.
For that... i think we need some new issues of the "Fingerless Magazine"?
not the behind scenes though, but the news of the penspinning communities and things that are going on in the world
i asked about it before but i think the only response i got was "people are lazy or busy"
but something like that would definitely be nice
-
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 21:29:58
I agree a few of the things iMatt mentioned here.
-I see that we have lots of members showing ideas about what we can do to improve the board (not the threads like: STOP THE SPAM, SPIN PENS - DON'T DWELL IN OFF-TOPIC). I've seen a few ideas come up that seem like good ideas, but for one reason or another aren't incorporated into the community. I've gone back and looked through older versions of UPSB as well as UCPSB and seen alot of spam there too, this isn't a new problem, just one that seems to come up over time.
-TEK needs the unlimited for the UPSB RSVP preorder going on now. If anyone else had run this sale, they would get the same privledge for the time-being.
-I do think we need more connections between the community and the moderating staff. We often make threads in the moderator section with ideas from board members and from ourselves and discuss them amongst ourselves before moving forward. The same things are done when we need to discuss how to deal with certain members breakingg the rules set for the board -
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 21:47:07QUOTE (iMatt @ Feb 26 2009, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Then hire more of the other kind, there are more than plenty of candidates on this board with the technical skills to do. Even for those who create projects, I can think of a good number of spinners who'd be more than enthusiastic at coming up with ideas. I understand that's part of research, but majority of the RD has been well dead, there should be a bit of cleaning done there. Besides that I think there needs to be some moderator/community co-op in tackling some of these. Maybe even if it comes down to it, a few moderators to be there as a representative of the spinners. Quite literally a small republic to be perfectly honest. There really needs to be a bridge of communication between both sides.
Well then that begs the question, if there are a good number of spinners with good ideas, why do they need to be a mod before they can start doing those projects? Stuff like tournaments, collabs; those don't need moderating powers. Most of those kind of projects are run by regular members in other boards, there shouldn't be a problem here. In my opinion, if someone brings forth a lot of ideas and organizes good projects, we will take notice and consider them for moderator. It shouldn't be the other way around.
If the RD is dead, then do your part and put forth some new ideas. For instance, sketching was head of the naming commitee, but ever since he left, that section literally stalled. Someone should step up and be the new leader. You should never ask "What the community can do for me?" but "What can I do for the community?"
If the Fingerless magazine project is dead, its because nobody has stepped up to replace Sfsr as head of the project. In whatever project, there needs someone to put the effort first without waiting for others to act.QUOTEBut this goes back to my point, what ARE the needs? Be specific, let the community know. The community isn't informed as to what is needed. Then who exactly is to judge WHO is suitable or not?
Maybe this is a misunderstanding, but I thought YOU didn't chose candidates.
I'll make a thread about this, but didn't you read my post in the welcome thread? I detailed how it works. The judges are the mods. -
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 22:04:21
@Zombo, well no offense, but you particularly haven't proposed anything better. Either it's sitting on the fence or prevention, why not an alternative or ANYTHING really?
-----------------------------QUOTEIf the RD is dead, then do your part and put forth some new ideas. For instance, sketching was head of the naming commitee, but ever since he left, that section literally stalled. Someone should step up and be the new leader. You should never ask "What the community can do for me?" but "What can I do for the community?"
If the Fingerless magazine project is dead, its because nobody has stepped up to replace Sfsr as head of the project. In whatever project, there needs someone to put the effort first without waiting for others to act.
As in regards to the RD, nobody has taken up the naming committee because nobody has mentioned anything about a replacement needed. It makes no sense for a few other RD members to take up a project in which they are within no area of familiarity. (If what projects I'm partaking is in inquiry I will be more than happy to share, but that is not the point of this topic).
Again, isn't the purpose of the moderator to deal with things such as this? To oversee how things are developing, what needs work, where, when, and who will do it?
No offense, but isn't it a bit hypocritical to say someone should step up and be the new leader when you, yourself, have not taken a leadership position to getting some of these things accomplished? -
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 22:20:38QUOTE (iMatt @ Feb 26 2009, 05:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>As in regards to the RD, nobody has taken up the naming committee because nobody has mentioned anything about a replacement needed. It makes no sense for a few other RD members to take up a project in which they are within no area of familiarity. (If what projects I'm partaking is in inquiry I will be more than happy to share, but that is not the point of this topic).
Again, isn't the purpose of the moderator to deal with things such as this? To oversee how things are developing, what needs work, where, when, and who will do it?
Well, if you're referring to the RD, I agree it needs some cleaning. I didn't have much time to work on it and I neglected it for a long time. But in the RD, the structure clearly states we have project leaders for every project, and supervisors for every section. So no, they don't need to be moderators.
In the main board, you don't need moderators at all to supervise. Moderators will probably start a few projects on their own, in which case they're responsible for them, but if people start their own project, why would we want to interfere? Maybe only if there are problems or stuff that requires the assistance of a mod... If what you said is true, then you would need a mod supervising every single collab in progress to make sure they're going well. Why would we do that? Same thing for gatherings. Why?QUOTENo offense, but isn't it a bit hypocritical to say someone should step up and be the new leader when you, yourself, have not taken a leadership position to getting some of these things accomplished?
I'm not superman, I already take part of many projects, whether it be coordinating podcasts, helping out with the World tournament, working with Penwish and TEK to get the RSVPs rolling. Just recently I worked on the Asia Cup and spend many hours compiling the results and resolving conflicts. I do what I can in areas I'm good at. I can't work on Naming Commitee, I'm not good with naming. I promised I would organize the next UPSB collab, so yes that's a future engagement.
I'm not going to organize another tournament now since I'm doing the WT09. I'm not gonna make new collabs before the UPSB collab.
On top of that I'm moderating the board, coordinating the other moderators, and I deal with the odd technical issue when it's within my power.
Seriously, what more do you want me to do? I spend far more time on this board than any of you. You're being unreasonable.
If people start become less dependent on the mods, then we're in ideal situation, it means that people will start activities on their own. It would be like a car that keeps on rolling without its engine. If we want people to becomme independent, we have to stop spoonfeeding them. -
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 22:54:09QUOTEI'm not superman, I already take part of many projects, whether it be coordinating podcasts, helping out with the World tournament, working with Penwish and TEK to get the RSVPs rolling. Just recently I worked on the Asia Cup and spend many hours compiling the results and resolving conflicts. I do what I can in areas I'm good at. I can't work on Naming Commitee, I'm not good with naming. I promised I would organize the next UPSB collab, so yes that's a future engagement.
I'm not going to organize another tournament now since I'm doing the WT09. I'm not gonna make new collabs before the UPSB collab.
On top of that I'm moderating the board, coordinating the other moderators, and I deal with the odd technical issue when it's within my power.
Seriously, what more do you want me to do? I spend far more time on this board than any of you. You're being unreasonable.
If it's so much work, why not have some other moderators help? Why is it Exactly that you have to do all of it?
I never said a Mod has to Take up projects, but I do think they should play some part in being responsible for putting out a notice for positions in need and how to go about it.QUOTEModerators will probably start a few projects on their own, in which case they're responsible for them, but if people start their own project, why would we want to interfere? Maybe only if there are problems or stuff that requires the assistance of a mod... If what you said is true, then you would need a mod supervising every single collab in progress to make sure they're going well. Why would we do that?
Supervision of all collabs at all times would be a miracle on it's own, but official board related projects such as, "Finger-less Magazine." or page upgrades?
But no offense, but the statement of, "I promised I would organize the next UPSB collab, so yes that's a future engagement." contradict "If people start become less dependent on the mods, then we're in ideal situation, it means that people will start activities on their own."QUOTE"If people start become less dependent on the mods, then we're in ideal situation, it means that people will start activities on their own."
Unfortunately, this board is not there yet. I agree with you, but in order to get things stirring somebody of higher authority needs to get the ball rolling in the first place.
Think of it like economics, if you wish to fix an economic deficit, stimulate the economy with a cash flow, get people to start doing things. There has to be an initial act to start these kind of things up.
Things like incentives, some form of recognition, and even rewards at times. What exactly those consist of can be pounded-out later.
-
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 23:20:17QUOTE (iMatt @ Feb 26 2009, 05:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>If it's so much work, why not have some other moderators help? Why is it Exactly that you have to do all of it?
I never said a Mod has to Take up projects, but I do think they should play some part in being responsible for putting out a notice for positions in need and how to go about it.
You said I was a hypocrite for asking others to step up when I don't step up myself, and now you're saying the opposite, that I have to ask others to help...
So yeah, that's exactly right, others need to work on the other projects. I have my priorities.
Putting out notice is not supposed to be the responsibilities of any mod, it's actually the responsability of the leader of that project. If Sfsr can't do it anymore, he should put up that notice. Recently I personally put up a notice for the breakdown team and sangara took the job I believe. But he didn't do anything with it so... if he's not interested anymore he should say so.
I don't know if you realize, but that's a lot of things to track down. Eventually, we get around to everything, but this is not a fast process.
Plus, what about starting NEW projects for a change? How can I put notice for positions for projects that don't even exist. When I said I want people to start up new projects, I prefer them to create new things, rather than going back.QUOTESupervision of all collabs at all times would be a miracle on it's own, but official board related projects such as, "Finger-less Magazine." or page upgrades?
Fingerless magazine is not an "official" project. It was started by Sfsr. It's a project like any others.
I have no idea what page upgrades mean.QUOTEBut no offense, but the statement of, "I promised I would organize the next UPSB collab, so yes that's a future engagement." contradict "If people start become less dependent on the mods, then we're in ideal situation, it means that people will start activities on their own."
You said it before, there are stuff that only moderators can do. Official projects are those kind of stuff. UPSB collab is an official project, so it would be started by moderators. But anything else, everybody can do it.
Plus, just because I want people to be independent doesn't mean mods don't have the right to start up any project?QUOTEUnfortunately, this board is not there yet. I agree with you, but in order to get things stirring somebody of higher authority needs to get the ball rolling in the first place.
Think of it like economics, if you wish to fix an economic deficit, stimulate the economy with a cash flow, get people to start doing things. There has to be an initial act to start these kind of things up.
Things like incentives, some form of recognition, and even rewards at times. What exactly those consist of can be pounded-out later.
We're already doing as much as we can... the rest is up to the community. We're not in a deficit or anything. We're not in trouble. Moderators are keeping the board stable right now and we want to guarantee our survival with the merchandise, that's our priority. People can do whatever they want on top of this foundation.
I already mentionned three projects in the other thread: tournament for beginners (that's actually the ECS), tournament for teams, and tournament for double (pairs). People just need to step up and organize those things. -
Date: Thu, Feb 26 2009 23:23:23QUOTE'm not so sure of what the circumstances, but since I have not been there, I trust kam's decision. Obviously, shoutbox bans decisions do not go through other moderators because the mod needs to intervene quickly to stop the situation. We do report every ban later and with reasoning, so that people are aware of who is banned, but because the shoutbox messages go through quickly, it will be difficult to judge. In general, moderating the shoutbox is tricky.
Why, if someone is banned for an event in shoutbox, can the moderator involved not simply copy & paste the shoutbox history so that it can be seen by all what exactly caused the ban? -
Date: Fri, Feb 27 2009 01:05:12
I think we need more transparency about what goes on behind the scenes. A lot of UPSB members are in the dark here...
-
Date: Fri, Feb 27 2009 01:20:40
seriously
there's not that much going behind the scenes that you guys dont know about
it would be:
1- our list of problematic users we have to deal with
2- our list of users we've banned from shoutbox
3- moderator candidates discussion
and that's about it
the rest are just more in-depth details on stuff we've already released to the public, or further details that require discussion before we put it in the public.
there's no big secret. -
Date: Fri, Feb 27 2009 01:24:56QUOTE (here&now @ Feb 26 2009, 01:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>and iMatt.
I doubt its worth it to just leave like that even though Zombo is that extreme.
Maybe just like Eso.
Tune down a little and not bother about how they manage the Forum.
Eso? He didnt leave because of zombo...QUOTE (rockstar @ Feb 26 2009, 01:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I don't know why you would get any negative comments for this post, Im all for freedom of speech and opinion.
I'm pretty sure each member can check their own warning level and find out why they got warned.
I expected negative responses, actually.
and i'm pretty sure they cant..?QUOTE (Zombo @ Feb 26 2009, 01:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>If the RD is dead, then do your part and put forth some new ideas. For instance, sketching was head of the naming commitee, but ever since he left, that section literally stalled. Someone should step up and be the new leader.
Is that like an actual position? Can I... apply for it?
Now, as an overall point, I agree with zombo's idea that the members simply need to step up more. I personally have been very busy recently, but, as some of my obligations have passed, I intend to be much more active in the RD. I've also made a point to stop flaming people and help out more with tricks and whatever else I can. I can only hope that other members will do the same, and that we as a whole can help newcomers mature to be valuable assets to the community, as well as great spinners. -
Date: Fri, Feb 27 2009 01:38:52QUOTE (Sadistic @ Feb 26 2009, 07:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>No.
and learn some fucking appreciation.
It is things like this which plague the board, how does he further the board? Especially with no reasoning or collective thought. To me these are the kind things I've seen as well which I think some people need to step in and correct.QUOTEI've also made a point to stop flaming people and help out more with tricks and whatever else I can. I can only hope that other members will do the same, and that we as a whole can help newcomers mature to be valuable assets top the community, as well as great spinners.
I agree entirely with shadow, I've tried to do the same except for pen-mods. On that note though, It's not only our job as spinners, but moderators need to put in a bit more work into this, making it an enforceable habit that people should follow. Again, which is what I am striving for in the long run, a more professional, organized, and solid forum. -
Date: Fri, Feb 27 2009 01:43:19QUOTE"I, myself, Matthew Orcutt (iMatt) think Zombo should be revoked of central moderator status and a new central mod should be voted upon by the community to replace him." I've had to sit back and watch all of this unfold lately, and frankly I find it childish.
I think Sadi is right, Zombo does do a lot for the community, is active and organizes most of the things that need organizing (pod casts, WT, soon it will be the UPSB collab ). Hes been around for a long time, and does a good job off running the board. Sure he doesn't do everything, but he does more then what any of us should expect a member to do, and does a lot more then other members. If you impeach him, no better member is going to take his place.
(I hate defending people in authority >_<)
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Date: Fri, Feb 27 2009 01:48:15QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ Feb 26 2009, 08:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Is that like an actual position? Can I... apply for it?
I've modeled the Research Department after real-life academic research. Real researchers don't wait around for others, they're motivated by their thirst of knowledge. If you were really interested in naming, you would have long started new projects and discuss naming in the RD (you're a researcher right?). You wouldn't need my permission for that. And then people would notice your effort, you would pretty much self-proclaim yourself head of the NC. That's how it works.
Getting people to be more self-motivated and more independent will help them in the future too. It's an invaluable tool.QUOTE (Sadistic @ Feb 26 2009, 08:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>No.
and learn some fucking appreciation.
Chill dude, that was pointless post.QUOTE (iMatt @ Feb 26 2009, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It is things like this which plague the board, how does he further the board? Especially with no reasoning or collective thought. To me these are the kind things I've seen as well which I think some people need to step in and correct.
Well we do work on this... we may not immediately catch everything but we get to it... that's why the report button exists... I've been repeating myself over and over again about the report feature, but on average we get 3-5 reports per day, and they're always by the same people, in the same thread(s). This either tells me, everything is going fine and we're doing our job, or that people are too lazy to use it...QUOTEI agree entirely with shadow, I've tried to do the same except for pen-mods. On that note though, It's not only our job as spinners, but moderators need to put in a bit more work into this, making it an enforceable habit that people should follow. Again, which is what I am striving for in the long run, a more professional, organized, and solid forum.
At some point this was an issue, but we did a lot to fix that. It's all part of the "cleaning the pens project" which we started a long time ago, which involves cleaning the SOYP, adding Pending/Approved sections, hiring a lot of pen mods mods... and you guys were all aware of that, there was a public discussion for this. -
Date: Fri, Feb 27 2009 02:00:43QUOTE (Awesome @ Feb 26 2009, 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think Sadi is right, Zombo does do a lot for the community, is active and organizes most of the things that need organizing (pod casts, WT, soon it will be the UPSB collab ). Hes been around for a long time, and does a good job off running the board. Sure he doesn't do everything, but he does more then what any of us should expect a member to do, and does a lot more then other members. If you impeach him, no better member is going to take his place.
I've been around for a long time, but that doesn't mean everything I've said or done is right. I'm merely putting out my experiences and thoughts towards the current situation, which I do not think is being done correctly. This is not to decide What experience a mod has, it's to improve WHEN, HOW, WHY, AND WHERE they go about doing these. There are changes that could be made to this system and in the long run benefit current and future pen-spinners.
The trouble with that last statement is we as spinners do not have that right TO an impeach. The mindset that I'm trying to put it end to is, "I'm a mod so I now have all authority and my means are justified regardless of circumstance."QUOTEHes been around for a long time, and does a good job off running the board.
This goes back to my idea of being conservative and holding that idea of, "I like it how it is. I do not want to change it."
In YOUR opinion, he's done a good job of running the board. Personally to me, I think it can be done BETTER.
-
Date: Fri, Feb 27 2009 02:04:03
The idea of impeachment just never occurred to anyone until now. If you think such right is necessary to preserve the integrity of the board, that's fine by me. I don't mind putting up polls that will decide the fate of a moderator, but such a poll needs to be seriously considered before it is put up to prevent abuses and should only be used as last resort.
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Date: Fri, Feb 27 2009 02:04:44QUOTE (iMatt @ Feb 26 2009, 09:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I've been around for a long time, but that doesn't mean everything I've said or done is right. I'm merely putting out my experiences and thoughts towards the current situation, which I do not think is being done correctly. This is not to decide What experience a mod has, it's to improve WHEN, HOW, WHY, AND WHERE they go about doing these. There are changes that could be made to this system and in the long run benefit current and future pen-spinners.
The trouble with that last statement is we as spinners do not have that right TO an impeach. The mindset that I'm trying to put it end to is, "I'm a mod so I now have all authority and my means are justified regardless of circumstance."
This goes back to my idea of being conservative and holding that idea of, "I like it how it is. I do not want to change it."
In YOUR opinion, he's done a good job of running the board. Personally to me, I think it can be done BETTER.
Alright sure we might have a right to do it, but why would we want to use that right like you so suggested when it would hurt the board -
Date: Fri, Feb 27 2009 02:16:57QUOTE (Zombo @ Feb 26 2009, 05:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I've modeled the Research Department after real-life academic research. Real researchers don't wait around for others, they're motivated by their thirst of knowledge. If you were really interested in naming, you would have long started new projects and discuss naming in the RD (you're a researcher right?). You wouldn't need my permission for that. And then people would notice your effort, you would pretty much self-proclaim yourself head of the NC. That's how it works.
Getting people to be more self-motivated and more independent will help them in the future too. It's an invaluable tool.
alright, i just wasnt sure if it was an actual position or something, i'm fine with that
-
Date: Fri, Feb 27 2009 02:27:06
All in all, i think the point you're putting across is that Mods should be more involved and do more around the board.
The only question i have is, What exactly does a mod have that a regular spinner doesn't?
Besides, filtering posts and topics, and dealing with neldoers, we have just the same motivation and ability to start up new projects and further the board.
As Zombo said time and time again, mods can only do so much, and for a board to actively thrive, it needs to do just that, members need to do things by themselves. Theres nothing stopping any member from commenting in RD, or starting a new project. Go out there, do it.
If you want things EXACTLY your way, you are gonna have to put some effort in too.
You can't expect mods and other ppl to do everything for you.
Complaining won't neccessarily do good, go out there and make a difference yourself.
And personally, there aren't a ton of ppl who have been doing HALF the work to improve the board as zombo has, and with the ability to delete posts, and sticky stuff, i dont think anyone would come close. As i stated before, the line between user and moderator is extremely thin, especially when it comes to improving the board. -
Date: Fri, Feb 27 2009 02:55:23QUOTEIf you want things EXACTLY your way, you are gonna have to put some effort in too.
You can't expect mods and other ppl to do everything for you.
Complaining won't neccessarily do good, go out there and make a difference yourself.
I"m glad you said that. I agree entirely, but I don't necessarily call it complaining. It's more of a bringing to attention.
I never said I'm going to sit back and watch the world change, by me posting this, if there is some willingness to move forward, I would love nothing more than to be a part of that.
There just needs to be co-op between mods and spinners. -
Date: Fri, Feb 27 2009 02:58:25QUOTE (iMatt @ Feb 26 2009, 09:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I never said I'm going to sit back and watch the world change, by me posting this, if there is some willingness to move forward, I would love nothing more than to be a part of that.
I don't agree with this line, if everybody was watching if anybody else was moving forward, nobody would do anything.
This is exactly what happens most of the time here, nobody wants to step up. Step up means you go ahead and do something before others.
The only way to move forward is do it, without looking at what others are doing, and hopefully inspire others to do the same. -
Date: Fri, Feb 27 2009 07:26:07QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ Feb 27 2009, 09:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Eso? He didnt leave because of zombo...
i meant tune down a little like Eso.
He wasnt that active anymore.
ok well maybe JUST recently. -
Date: Sun, Mar 1 2009 00:24:08QUOTE (iMatt @ Feb 26 2009, 04:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I personally think there needs to be some veto-power to the spinners here. I've noticed personally and second handed that the mods aren't really doing their job to the fullest extent or even holding the forward motion of where this board could and should be moving.QUOTE (iMatt @ Feb 26 2009, 04:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Trying to make a point or simply clarify WHY things should be a certain way is understandable up to a certain point, but to say the board HASN'T changed or OBVIOUSLY large issues are not of concern, what does that say about him?
The board hasn't actually changed that much since UCPSB closed. The current UPSB is like an extension to UCPSB. It's more casual and laid-back than the old UPSB. Does that mean you can expect less content? Sure. But you seem to be under the impression that moderators are supposed to stimulate the board. The role of a moderator is, quite simply, to moderate. Their purpose is to maintain the peace, order and integrity within UPSB. This is a neutral forum for communication, not a prescription for how an online PS board should be. If the community is satisfied with the way things are, then that's the way things will continue to be.
Maybe people are too greedy. Maybe the majority of members have become too obsessed with their own PS experience that they can't see anything greater than themselves. In other words, they'll happily devour the ideas offered by others without adding any of their own. But it comes at the cost of respect. See, the true beauty of the situation is that respect is earned based on what you add to the board, not on what you take away. It's ordinary members who are empowered to make a positive difference, not just moderators.
When I see insightful, contributive, well thought-out posts, projects and the like—it is these members who give me hope that we can someday turn UPSB into something great. -
Date: Thu, Mar 5 2009 10:57:27
Read this all. 4 days late, but I think I can still post here without being considered "bringing up old topics"
This topic is similar to the one I posted in UCPSBv2.
I mean no offense for anyone.
If i were to be extreme, Zombo is like God in Greek Mythology against "non-gods". God in Greek Mythology is indeed imperfect, and also acts depending on how they feel, and also are like "eye-for-an-eye" type and sometimes become irrational, but no one can actually "change" God because it's just the way they are. Zombo is indeed that way.
Zombo has great pride in himself. He never change his mind when it comes to serious matter, and when he says he will change his mind, he is just sarcastically saying that. Especially the conflict I had with Eriror back in UCPSB, I fought with Zombo for a long time until at certain point, he becomes irrational, even going as far as threatening me to ban me. Zombo does not hesitate to ban people when he says so. I said once long ago that Zombo is not fit as a moderator, but he replies that he had been moderator for very long time, and no one has tried to make a vote to deprive the powers Zombo has. In reality, people who does not like Zombo was not a minority back then (not a majority neither). After my suspension, several people PMed me and said a lot of bad things about Zombo, which I did not take part in because it would only endanger my position further. It is actually not precisely accurate that most people like Zombo so he is still a mod. Most people who has problems with Zombo either is suppressed or withdrawn from the problem probably because they want to stay in forum, and in order to do that, they must get over with Zombo's actions.
Zombo, to be honest, I still have very small amount of grudge against you with that matter, because you didn't understand the point i was getting to, or rather just ignored it. However, what can be said is that you should not do anything stupid. Most people on this forum don't do anything stupid, which is why they have no problem with Zombo, but people who do something stupid once or twice will usually have an issue with him. As long as you do nothing stupid you are fine. To think that way, Zombo's way of suppressing people is very effective in a way, not being sarcastic, because he was successful in making me stop doing stupid things (Spam and those problems is not what I'm talking about though).
I don't know anything personal these days, so I don't know how people feel today about Zombo.
In conclusion, Zombo's way of Moderating is still not precisely "wrong". As a matter of fact, he is very good at moderating this forum, and he does it effectively. Especially when hundreds and thousands of people are on this forum, Zombo's way of moderating is effective.
Zombo's high-pride-ish personality does come into play very well at times. It's not only the bad part. If you only try to look bad part of Zombo, you can only find bad parts about him. But if you try to look for good parts of Zombo, you can find good parts of Zombo, and it's probably why I don't mess with him: not because I fear him, but because he is actually needed on this forum.
I hope that helps you iMatt of why people need Zombo and no one else as Super Moderator. So if I had a poll to deprive Zombo of his powers or not, I would vote no. NO ONE IS PERFECT anyway. Maybe you feel Zombo is unfit for his job, but we need him.
Zombo, some parts of my post are personal, but I hope now you understand well of the things happening in the basement. And I do wish we could get along like we did for long time. I'm not trying to offend you are make you look bad. -
Date: Fri, Mar 6 2009 12:51:00QUOTESo if I had a poll to deprive Zombo of his powers or not, I would vote no. NO ONE IS PERFECT anyway. Maybe you feel Zombo is unfit for his job, but we need him.
Where have I implied or stated that I have asked for a perfect moderator? Anyways, the fact of the matter is I do not think Zombo is unfit, I do however think it can be done better, and in order to reach that step, some power-shifting has to take place. I do not think it is wrong to ask for better.
Keep in mind that I never said people had to agree with me, but I hold my stance.
Side-Note:
Zombo and myself haven't had any personal issues in the past for the most part. The few I've provided in my arguments serve nothing more than references or specific examples that can be caused by a multitude of others. The rest are things that I've witnessed first-hand or brought to my attention by others. -
Date: Fri, Mar 6 2009 16:17:02QUOTEWhere have I implied or stated that I have asked for a perfect moderator?
nowhere. I was exaggerating to make my point when I said that. -
Date: Fri, Mar 6 2009 16:53:28
I can't believe this. You all are taking UPSB for granted. How dare you complain about people who are putting THEIR FREE TIME into a project they care about, so we all can connect as pen spinners. UPSB is offered as a free service to you people. Zombo says he will step down if you can show that most people here want a different leader, but I, for one, am HUMBLED by the work and effort put into this board by the mods and administrators. All in all, it's hard to complain about something that is given as a gift to you, out of the passion and dedication of someone else.
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Date: Fri, Mar 6 2009 19:35:22QUOTE (G.lanz @ Mar 6 2009, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I can't believe this. You all are taking UPSB for granted. How dare you complain about people who are putting THEIR FREE TIME into a project they care about, so we all can connect as pen spinners. UPSB is offered as a free service to you people. Zombo says he will step down if you can show that most people here want a different leader, but I, for one, am HUMBLED by the work and effort put into this board by the mods and administrators. All in all, it's hard to complain about something that is given as a gift to you, out of the passion and dedication of someone else.
If we sat back on everything that was a free-service, then how does it improve or move forward or even become better? It's one thing to be humble, but another to make something better. Keep in mind, the site as Zombo has mentioned earlier is greatest effected by the community. If the community doesn't leave feedback or input on some improvements that can be made mods may not pick up on some other issues.
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Date: Sat, Mar 7 2009 04:19:52QUOTE (G.lanz @ Mar 7 2009, 01:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I can't believe this. You all are taking UPSB for granted. How dare you complain about people who are putting THEIR FREE TIME into a project they care about, so we all can connect as pen spinners. UPSB is offered as a free service to you people. Zombo says he will step down if you can show that most people here want a different leader, but I, for one, am HUMBLED by the work and effort put into this board by the mods and administrators. All in all, it's hard to complain about something that is given as a gift to you, out of the passion and dedication of someone else.
Well we don't have any other choices do we? We can develop pen spinning by working together and sharing mods. How are we supposed to improve without joining the forum and be active on it?
We join UPSB because most PSers are here, UCPSB is like almost dead. And this is possibly the only English speaking forum that has so many members.
Okay, Mods and Admins are working on this forum as much as they can, I respect that. But like iMatt said, almost half of the Mods are inactive, things are biased at times, and indeed Zombo is uptight with things and tend to complain and deny what others say (It's rare he replies with positive comments). We as a community deserve a say. I'm sure we have such rights, and I do not believe any mod or admin would/can deny that right. And as a community, we deserve to point out things that isn't very good about the forums so it would improve in the future.
What you are saying is this (to be very extreme):
The non-profit organization provides the starved children in Africa food FOR FREE, so they shouldn't complain about what kind of food they get, even if the food is just a crumb of bread or rotten eggs. -
Date: Sat, Mar 7 2009 05:12:24QUOTE (Dark Angel-REX @ Mar 6 2009, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>What you are saying is this (to be very extreme):
The non-profit organization provides the starved children in Africa food FOR FREE, so they shouldn't complain about what kind of food they get, even if the food is just a crumb of bread or rotten eggs.
I'm totally off topic, but they could complain that they are sick.
Zombo, like Kam and all the other moderators, have a slight bias. Eso dislikes people adding him as a friend when he doesn't know it. Kam hates mudkips, etc. Sometimes, decisions will seem unfair, but I'd say we need to be able to know our warning level, why, and possibly appeal them.
Just my thoughts...
Zombo does a great job already. If I'm not wrong, he's trying to stimulate the members of the board to be more proactive and more willing to lead big projects, like updating the Wikipedia. -
Date: Mon, Mar 9 2009 21:17:10QUOTE (hoiboy @ Mar 7 2009, 01:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Zombo does a great job already. If I'm not wrong, he's trying to stimulate the members of the board to be more proactive and more willing to lead big projects, like updating the Wikipedia.
Agreed. I think the PEOPLE of UPSB should be running most of the functions. The mods' jobs are mainly spam cleanup, watching out for flaming, and making the board usable from a technical standpoint. It should be the spinners who make the difference between a real united community and a dead board (people of ECS, you know what I mean
)