UPSB v3
Fundamental Tricks / How important are reverses?
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Date: Sun, Mar 1 2009 03:06:35
So, I started spinning a month ago, and I've been religiously following Kam's learning order flowchart.
So, I first figured I should learn every fundamental, since that's you're supposed to go, right? I learned the charge (23), sonic (23-12 and 34-12, but not as good at the latter), thumbaround, and fingerpass (throughout the whole hand). After that, I figured I should learn the reverses of everything. It was tricky, but I can finally do a reverse charge (albeit a 12 instead of a 23). This past week I've managed to do a reverse fingerpass, although it's very jerky and needs a lot of work. So, going by the chart, I figured I should try to learn a reverse thumbaround. I tried a tutorial, and man that's hard. I remember looking at a tutorial for a reverse sonic a while back, and I guess I could learn it, but I dunno. I think after a month, the novelty of pen spinning has started to wear off and I've getting a little bored. Is it really that important that I learn every reverse fundamental, or should I go on to more advanced stuff? Kam's guide looks like I probably should learn them, but not in every case. So what should I do next? Also, am I following his guide too closely? -
Date: Sun, Mar 1 2009 03:12:37
Some of these tricks I can't get and they always seem to be their reverses. People tell me to learn the reverses because they are key to combos. I do see a lot of reverses in peoples combos rather than the normal function plus they seem more appealing. It also seems like it makes your combo look more worthy.
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Date: Sun, Mar 1 2009 03:47:02
they're also important because combos look better when you variate directions. if you only know normals then it's always spinning the same direction during your combo
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Date: Sun, Mar 1 2009 04:10:09
the flow chart is merely a guide not a strict path. you can learn several things while learning the reverses. for example.
i mastered twisted sonic/ sonic rise about a month before i could even do a recognizeable sonic reverse, TA reverse.
try doing other things as you practice things on your to do list. -
Date: Sun, Mar 1 2009 04:13:04
Okay, so they are important. I know I'll learn them at some point, but should I do it right now, or can I can on to other basic, but more advanced tricks like, say, twisted sonic?
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Date: Sun, Mar 1 2009 05:20:41
I remember learning twisted sonic after learning the fundmentals, then I learned the reverses a while after doing basic combos. Reverses are important because they add more variety into your combos. It gets boring to see the pen spinning in the same direction, right?
especially once you learn hand twists (ex. Switching from palm sideways to palm down) reverse tricks will help your combo flow better. Dont't give up if it takes you a while, just keep practicing 
And like midnight_xchris said, don't hesitate from learning other tricks while working on reverses. It expands your trick list
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Date: Sun, Mar 1 2009 05:36:40
I got charge reverse and fingerpass reverse first.
After that i got twisted sonic and other stuff..
Then TA rev.. and lastly sonic rev. -
Date: Sun, Mar 1 2009 06:34:22
i would get charge rev and fingerpass rev down first sonic rev isnt as important, same with ta rev
damn i make a hella big mistake not learning charge rev and fingerpass rev before, now my twisted sonic revs look so bad... so yeah -
Date: Tue, Mar 3 2009 05:43:43
Alright, well I've already gotten done charge reverse and can do a very rough fingerpass reverse. Also, in the past hour I've kinda learned to do a sonic reverse. I can do the full spin, but am having trouble getting my ring finger out to catch the pen. Fortunately, I had the same problem with the regular sonic, and the catch just came over time and practice. Thanks for all the help from everyone.
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Date: Tue, Mar 3 2009 09:35:46QUOTEAlright, well I've already gotten done charge reverse and can do a very rough fingerpass reverse. Also, in the past hour I've kinda learned to do a sonic reverse. I can do the full spin, but am having trouble getting my ring finger out to catch the pen. Fortunately, I had the same problem with the regular sonic, and the catch just came over time and practice. Thanks for all the help from everyone.
Great. PSing requires a lot of practice.
Don't forget to earn TA reverse. I think it is the easiest of the reverses. -
Date: Tue, Mar 3 2009 17:33:38
IMO, charge reverse is not needed as much, because the pen doesn't go anywhere. I would learn TA rev, because it's not too hard, and give a decent effort to sonic reverse (i'm still working on that one too.)
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Date: Tue, Mar 3 2009 19:43:49QUOTE (G.lanz @ Mar 4 2009, 12:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>IMO, charge reverse is not needed as much, because the pen doesn't go anywhere
Hmm ? charge normal doesn't go anywhere too , you're talking like charges aren't important and that's totally wrong
All kind of charges are important for your smoothness and yeah probably only , if you don't care much about smoothness then just ignore the charge -
Date: Tue, Mar 3 2009 20:49:43
I think all the revs are important... Agree that some are less used in combos than others, but like GSkyrunner said they affect the smoothness even though you don't necessary notice that... They can make your combos more various, which I think is very important, too...And I personally always prefer first learning the normal, then reverse and lastly the harmonic...In the harmonic you can practice the link from normal to reverse....
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Date: Tue, Mar 3 2009 22:29:19
More than imporant 0 _ o neccesary even.
That is to say a few aren't completley needed but you should learn them to be a well rounded spinner, here are a couple I consider neccesary
R Charge <- I didn't learn this until a few months ago, as soon as I got that my pen spinning improved ten fold. It helps your R sonic, and your spinning in general when it comes to finger independence and control of the pen, I find after learning this you don't have to struggle as much with direction changes when the pen comes to a turn.
R Sonic Neccesary for many combos
R fingerpass Neccessary for many combos and builds dexterity
R thumb arround NEccesary for many combos, and is a very basic trick that will help your linkages emensely.
Some others that are despensible are
R Shadow, you can get by through life without them using neo baks or rev sonic variations
R infinity looks cool but not neccesary
R finger arrounds Same as above but these are very easy to learn wunce you get the normals down.
R backarrounds same as above
R Sonic hybrid/variations you can get through life without them but they are good to know. -
Date: Tue, Mar 3 2009 23:28:35
Reverses are just as important as the original tricks themselves.
You cannot progress onto more difficult tricks without first learning a move and then its respective reverse.
However, one does not need to learn a reverse right away.
I know it took me some time before I even thought of trying the RingAround Reverse. -
Date: Thu, Mar 5 2009 06:23:55
Oh, wow. So is there a reverse of every single trick? Then reverses are a lot like fakie/switch versions of skating tricks, right?
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Date: Fri, Mar 6 2009 22:52:29
i guess they can help, but im not going to learn reverses until i have learned everything, and i feel like im ready for combos. i dont really see a point in learning unless you go all the way to combos.
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Date: Sun, Mar 8 2009 11:14:31
I managed to learn the reverse ta in like an hour, its really easy.
Just do a ta to set it up, keep your thumb bent (like a normal ta), push towards your thumb flap (with the pen blocking) and it should go around real easily, then catch with t2 if you like. -
Date: Tue, Mar 10 2009 03:46:45
Without the reverses, PS would be easier to do. I do not think all tricks and combos have reverses though!!
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Date: Tue, Mar 10 2009 03:50:34QUOTE (Pesadilla @ Mar 9 2009, 08:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Without the reverses, PS would be easier to do. I do not think all tricks and combos have reverses though!!
Actually, it's a lot harder to make a combo without any reverses, and yes, there is a reverse of everything. -
Date: Tue, Mar 10 2009 04:01:48QUOTE (AwonW @ Mar 9 2009, 10:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Actually, it's a lot harder to make a combo without any reverses, and yes, there is a reverse of everything.
Regular tricks, thats what I meant, sry.
All tricks have reverses? mmm how about a Devil's Sonic? Nobody did that before!!
CorkScrew, Twisted Sonic Bust. Mmm some of them are combos and some did not try doing reverses. -
Date: Wed, Mar 11 2009 00:00:35QUOTE (Pesadilla @ Mar 9 2009, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Regular tricks, thats what I meant, sry.
All tricks have reverses? mmm how about a Devil's Sonic? Nobody did that before!!
CorkScrew, Twisted Sonic Bust. Mmm some of them are combos and some did not try doing reverses.
what you listed are listing are minicombos/hybrids
and yes you can do the exact reverses of them too because they are composed of other tricks.
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Date: Wed, Mar 11 2009 04:25:46
reverses really help ur combos.
they make improv combos easier to do and make set combos smoother. plus u have a more variety of spinning options. also it helps extend spinning time and make ur combos look better. -
Date: Wed, Mar 11 2009 07:34:29QUOTE (Pesadilla @ Mar 10 2009, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>All tricks have reverses? mmm how about a Devil's Sonic? Nobody did that before!!
CorkScrew, Twisted Sonic Bust. Mmm some of them are combos and some did not try doing reverses.
Wat ?
Try do some research more and you'll see that those tricks already done by some people -
Date: Wed, Mar 11 2009 15:38:43QUOTE (GSkyrunner @ Mar 11 2009, 09:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Wat ?
Try do some research more and you'll see that those tricks already done by some people
Yep there are reverses on these tricks, but I haven't ever seen a Neo Sonic Reverse... I have seen many on youtube, but they really aren't the real reverses... It's just Around 0.5 T1-12 ....It can be proven, because the Neosonic Normal makes 1,0 revolutions, and the known as reverse makes only 0,5 revolutions, so it's not this trick's reverse.... -
Date: Wed, Mar 11 2009 19:04:58
uhm you dont need to see them as a reverse you need to see them as a complete other tricks and i want to learn all tricks and btw if you dont use reverses your combo kinda sucks cus then you are always spinning in the same derection
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Date: Thu, Mar 12 2009 03:30:46
reverse tricks aren't just for harmonics, they will help your combo flow better.
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Date: Thu, Mar 12 2009 10:09:15
Reverses puts half of the petals in a flower
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Date: Thu, Mar 12 2009 13:21:55QUOTE (Wall Screamer @ Mar 5 2009, 02:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Oh, wow. So is there a reverse of every single trick? Then reverses are a lot like fakie/switch versions of skating tricks, right?
Like, 99%. Some reverses are just impossible. -
Date: Thu, Mar 12 2009 14:48:02QUOTE (Xero @ Mar 12 2009, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Like, 99%. Some reverses are just impossible.
Yep some are impossible... I think some of them aren't really reverses even though they are called reverse...Ex. twisted sonic bust reverse (twisted sonic reverse12-23-> fl ringaround 23-23 reverse)... It's actually not a tw sonic bust reverse... I think tw sonic bust reverse should be the same way it came just reverse (fl indexaround 12-12 ->tw sonic reverse 12-23).... -
Date: Thu, Mar 12 2009 19:43:20QUOTE (andrius123456789 @ Mar 12 2009, 09:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yep some are impossible... I think some of them aren't really reverses even though they are called reverse...Ex. twisted sonic bust reverse (twisted sonic reverse12-23-> fl ringaround 23-23 reverse)... It's actually not a tw sonic bust reverse... I think tw sonic bust reverse should be the same way it came just reverse (fl indexaround 12-12 ->tw sonic reverse 12-23)....
ahahaha actually you were right , I was think about this few days ago too , but try think widely ...
for Example
like TA you need to use your index to pushes/scratches the pen back to your middle again , even if you reverse the video of TA , you'll never get anything that completely look like TA rev ( especially if you're pointing your index forward in the end of TA , the thing you'll get probably FL TA rev or maybe Flick >.> )
but awww ... I'm still unsure about this , probably they had some errors about naming >< dunno -
Date: Thu, Mar 12 2009 21:05:24QUOTE (GSkyrunner @ Mar 12 2009, 09:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>ahahaha actually you were right , I was think about this few days ago too , but try think widely ...
for Example
like TA you need to use your index to pushes/scratches the pen back to your middle again , even if you reverse the video of TA , you'll never get anything that completely look like TA rev ( especially if you're pointing your index forward in the end of TA , the thing you'll get probably FL TA rev or maybe Flick >.> )
but awww ... I'm still unsure about this , probably they had some errors about naming >< dunno
Yeah... But I think I know how they thought, too.... they thought= Tw sonic bust= twisted sonic 23-12->fl indexaround... so they thought: what's the reverse tw sonic 23-12? A= tw sonic reverse 12-23...so the pen is between 2 and 3... so it need to be fl ringaround reverse 23-23... but even here I don't know why it's not fl middlearound reverse 23-23... But I think that's how they figured the order.... -
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 21:33:01
I'd just like to say that I've finally gotten down TA reverse, meaning that while they don't all look great, I've learned every fundamental and its reverse
Thanks for everyone's help. -
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 21:42:49
It took me much longer than it did to take you
Now that I am learning more reverses, it makes sense that they can help you keep the smoothness in a combo. -
Date: Sat, Mar 21 2009 23:04:04QUOTE (GSkyrunner @ Mar 12 2009, 03:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>ahahaha actually you were right , I was think about this few days ago too , but try think widely ...
for Example
like TA you need to use your index to pushes/scratches the pen back to your middle again , even if you reverse the video of TA , you'll never get anything that completely look like TA rev ( especially if you're pointing your index forward in the end of TA , the thing you'll get probably FL TA rev or maybe Flick >.> )
but awww ... I'm still unsure about this , probably they had some errors about naming >< dunno
um.... the reverse of tricks is determined if the pen moves in the reverse direction of the trick, not the hand/fingers...
but please stay on topic on the discussion of the importance of reverses rather than their nomenclature -
Date: Sun, Mar 22 2009 04:00:06
took me a week and a half for this trick
