UPSB v3
General Discussion / World Tournament 2009 - Semifinals - Videos OUT!
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Date: Fri, Apr 24 2009 02:53:14
http://www.alexsimpsononline.com/rounds.html
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
DOWNLOAD: http://www.upsb.info/WT09/R5/
Matchup Thread -
Date: Fri, Apr 24 2009 12:24:58
any vids out yet?
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Date: Fri, Apr 24 2009 15:19:48
peem vs minvvoo!!!!!!!!! final battle
hmmm peem and supawit the dream battle but im voting for peem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
cyl battle or god battle!=!! -
Date: Fri, Apr 24 2009 15:49:31QUOTE (sumPINOYkidstukinamerica @ Apr 24 2009, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>peem vs minvvoo!!!!!!!!! final battle
hmmm peem and supawit the dream battle but im voting for peem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
cyl battle or god battle!=!!
OMFG CYL BATTLEZZZ HELL YEAH -
Date: Fri, Apr 24 2009 16:49:23QUOTE (Sian_ing @ Apr 24 2009, 08:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>any vids out yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT4LMfpHx7g...re=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvI1W7dEgmA...feature=channel
dont know about two others -
Date: Fri, Apr 24 2009 17:43:10
I think I see Minwoo's combo in his Channel
but still don't know where is answer's combo..
Spinnerpeem's combo look nice but He used old linage like fl neo sonic that he've used it before in previous round.
Supawit127 more appeal and have some nice stuff there but Spinnerpeem maybe owned with harder trick -
Date: Fri, Apr 24 2009 20:27:35QUOTE (longhorn @ Apr 24 2009, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Spinnerpeem's combo look nice but He used old linage like fl neo sonic that he've used it before in previous round.
thats like saying that Supawit127 used old linkage with twisted sonic
its such a basic trick that i don't think peem will lose points over it
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Date: Fri, Apr 24 2009 20:37:29
Nice match tough i expected something more. I believe spinnerpeem won this one with these insane spreads -> palmspin.
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Date: Fri, Apr 24 2009 22:28:34
Hey guys,
Semi-Final videos have just been released on the wt site: www.alexsimpsononline.com/rounds.html
Enjoy -
Date: Fri, Apr 24 2009 22:56:12
wow, some really good videos this round. Minwoo's transfers seemed a little sloppier this round, but they were still very nice. I liked the videos this round very much
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Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 00:17:22
Holy crap o.0
Peem has the nicest finishers out of any spinner ever IMO.
Minwoo's vid was also awesome. I think it will be Peem vs. Minwoo.
I expected more from answer
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Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 00:25:06QUOTE (Jamie Enns @ Apr 24 2009, 04:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>thats like saying that Supawit127 used old linkage with twisted sonic
its such a basic trick that i don't think peem will lose points over it
THATS SO TRUE! -
Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 00:52:16
peems vid is great. my face still looks like this.
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Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 01:44:29
Answer's combo wasn't bad, but I think the angle could be improved, some tricks looked really two-dimensional and made the combo seem not as smooth.
On the other hand, I didn't feel Minwoo's combo that much this round. It was a little sloppier than usual and didn't have the wow factor that everyone's been talking about lately, the finisher was especially not as well-executed. His busts are good, but nothing better than average when compared to Spinnerpeem or Supawit's busts.
Minwoo'll probably win, but I feel that Answer still has a chance. (And I personally hope that Answer wins).
Spinnerpeem was amazing this round, really smooth and the finisher was really nice. The FL TA->Palmspin -> FL TA release things were amazing.
Supawit's combo felt like it was just his usual, I think I liked his quarterfinal video better than this one.
I really like Supawit's style, it's really controlled and smooth and consistent, but then so is Spinnerpeem's. I preferred Supawit before this round, but I would say that Spinnerpeem will win this round. -
Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 01:56:58
Hmm..
I didnt like any of the videos this round. Nothing majorly appealing.
To me, Answer was the most interesting.
I feel like most of the rest were anything that could be done by a bunch of other talented spinners, once again, not unique, or particularily awesome.
I really disliked all of minwoo's hand transfers. They were done fairly well for the most part, but their quantity was just too much. Ate up like 15 seconds of the combo, leaving only 10 seconds for an actual combo, not nearly enough time for him to crunch out a ball-busting combo.
if he woulda cut to 2 transfer, woulda been alot better. -
Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 02:08:32
i think that its a shame answer is still in this, so many others deserve his place. his combo sucked! a mistake, off cam, and nothing but spam!
Minwoo has done better, but he has this in the bag.
Spinnerpeem was awesome
Supawit was awesome
ahhhhhhhhhhh!!! -
Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 02:11:46
Minwoo=win
Answer=gross long fingernails -
Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 02:25:45
Minwoo vs. Answer
Minwoo didn't do as well as last round, but Answer didn't do anything new at all. Just his regular palm turn stuff and KT and long fingernails. But Minwoo really has to step up the execution if he's in the final round.
Spinnerpeem vs. Supawit127
Spinnerpeem had this awesome finisher. Supawit had an overall nice combo, but the finisher for him was totally anticlimatic. And Spinnerpeem has really got something going there.
I wish Pyralux would participate. I so wanna see Pyralux vs. Minwoo. -
Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 02:31:29
minwoo finally didn't explode any more new stuff....he has done amazing in the past rounds with crazy new tricks every round. This is the first time he didn't show new tricks. Again, two very obious execution error, like always...
Answer is too exhausted imao, style is still great, but difficulty can't match Minwoo anymore.
Minwoo will probably take this one, but i still hope Answer wins. -
Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 02:37:34QUOTE (Jamie Enns @ Apr 24 2009, 07:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i think that its a shame answer is still in this, so many others deserve his place. his combo sucked! a mistake, off cam, and nothing but spam!
Minwoo has done better, but he has this in the bag.
Spinnerpeem was awesome
Supawit was awesome
ahhhhhhhhhhh!!!
I agree completely. Answer's good, but so many other better spinners should have been there in his place. WT rules need some adjustments.
Final facedown between Minwoo and Peem! Woot! -
Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 03:06:04
by the way, there is still time for refilm
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Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 03:22:15
i really want supawit127 to win........ i think he has so much potential for the finals if he gets there
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Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 03:30:25
Sorry... i've never really liked spinnerpeem (except for his insane busts, but thats a bit too spammy) and i REALLY love how supawit's combos are always so smooth and elegant and fast... i think its his camera/angle, its really professional (but like most ppl said, his combos are repetitive but thats just his style imo =P) whereas peem's style is a bit too jumpy, and his angle/cam isnt the greatest...
answer and minwoo were weird o_o i didnt like answer's angle that much or the off-cam stuff... and his combo didnt really look that 3-d like someone else mentioned. but on the same token, minwoo's combo was a lot sloppier than normal, but liked the transfer > 2x bust =D
anyways, i'd like to see supawit move on, but minwoo/answer are kinda both equal in my pov... but minwoo will probably win. -
Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 03:35:07
idk some parts of supawit's combo were sorta.... shaky.... as well as with spinnerpeem, some parts he seemed somewhat cautious...... could've flowed better for both imo
answer wasn't as amazing as last round imo.... it just didn't have much appeal to me. minwoo's was probably my fav through the semi's.... though he also had those shaky parts in his combo :/ -
Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 03:37:03
I didn't like answer or minwoo... =[
Supawit and Spinnerpeem were both insane this round, I can't decide. -
Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 04:39:44
spinnerpeem's and supawit's combos were pretty similar to the ones they had previously. both good, but peem's got my attention more. better ending too.
minwoo's execution sloppier than last time, but i think he'll still win.
minwoo vs peem final
epic -
Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 06:13:26
hmmm
answer sucked imo... it was just an average combo
minwoo was good as usual but more shaky
his r4 vid was better imo
supa was amazing like always but i think peem has this... -
Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 06:52:00
Answer's combo didn't look WT quality to me anymore.
so I guess its Peem vs Minwoo, hellz yeah -
Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 07:35:43
s777 ftw win WT11 WITH SEED RANKINGS!!! =D
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Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 13:54:39
peem and minwoo. they will win.
but minwoo used too much of his palmspin stuff and chargeT1>FL TA REV -
Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 14:03:40
I think i heard Supawit's pen hitting the table at the beginning...but he did not stumble and continued smoothly from what i had seen..
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Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 16:41:29
I really prefer Supawit to Spinnerpeem... it's my own opinion...
Although this round Minwoo didn't do anything really new... however I think he still can win
I was disappointed of Answer... I expected he could do better than Minwoo xD -
Date: Sat, Apr 25 2009 16:48:11
I think it'll probably be peem vs minwoo for the final battle
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Date: Sun, Apr 26 2009 01:42:53
supa vs. peem: i like both combos, but peem's ending was incredible. i hope he take this WT
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Date: Sun, Apr 26 2009 02:02:54
minwoo was kinbda like. wobbly? u could see some parts where he nearly screwed up
but still, minwoo > answer IMO. fuck yea. minwoo for the win. -
Date: Sun, Apr 26 2009 14:12:36
when are the results gonna be out?
There are only four spinner left, the results should be out pretty soon... -
Date: Sun, Apr 26 2009 14:21:15QUOTE (Hope @ Apr 26 2009, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>when are the results gonna be out?
There are only four spinner left, the results should be out pretty soon...
Yes, this is true, there are only 4 spinners left. But they'll probably want to keep the time it takes consistent. That and as we move through the rounds, each round becomes harder to judge and harder to make a decision on since the spinner's level come really close.
As for this round, I kinda want Answer to win... Just cause i wanna support the underdog xD? haha
But in reality, it'll probably be Minwoo vs Spinnerpeem.gif)
I want supawit to win over peem though... -
Date: Sun, Apr 26 2009 14:31:20
Answer vs. Spinnerpeem was something I hoped for...
Answer disappointed me... -
Date: Sun, Apr 26 2009 14:52:18
Answer & Supawit127
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Date: Sun, Apr 26 2009 15:22:41QUOTE (fox1ra @ Apr 26 2009, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Answer & Supawit127
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Date: Sun, Apr 26 2009 15:50:28
Answer vs. Minwoo: Minwoo
Answer's combo had some really nice linkings. The angle was very very very... suboptimal. It would have looked way better with another angle... I think.
Minwoo's combo: until 15 sec perfect imo. Then at the charge t1 rev release to sw thumbindexspin was the first moment I thought he'd gonna drop. And the same at ca. 23 sec. at the thumbindexspin with his right hand...
Minwoo's angle was better and I think the difiiculty level might give him the needed points for victory.
Supawit vs. Spinnerpeem: ?
First I watched Supawit's combo. It's a nice combo with high speed, smoothness and difficulty. I think the finisher was not the highlight of the combo but also quite good.
Spinnerpeem: Cannot comment on that combo. Don't know what to say... Made me speechless.
Keep Spinning -
Date: Sun, Apr 26 2009 17:25:36
I translate my post on FPSB :
"It was almost the videos I was expecting, I'm quoting myself saying the tournament is not interesting anymore.
As I've said, can someone here say that while watching those vids, he was suprised? stunned? Those guys here have not so much style but furthermore, they have no skills to create the surprise.
Minwoo -> you take his 4th round combo and you add 3 busts, anything new?
Answer -> tourist, by far, I really don't understand how a guy like this have even managed to reach the round 2. Honestly, a 6 months spinner on FPSB is as skilled as him. Well, it just requests to get off the fingers out of his butthole, take the glasses and open the eyes
Supawit127->You take Shout's solo and you have Supawit but 3 years ago, nice penspinning evolution...
Spinnerpeem-> You take his round 1, you cut in parts the clip with Vegas, you mix everything, you randomly put everything together and you will have another round of Spinnerpeem, try and you'll have his possible round 5.
I don't know about you, but I will take profit of the JEB/KPSA account to see real spinners because here, we just have the results from 5 judges who seem to have forgotten the true penspinning values. Personnally, I 'm gonna watched some korean solo in the time where there was really smooth spinners ant not this pseudo-smoothness. I'm also gonna watch Pyralux, Lindor, Zasso's video to see some real originality and not a finger placed in front of the pen with left hand to give a original fake style "
Sorry but that's my way of thinking. In 2007, we had some real spinners with real style. They managed to surprise. I mean making some other things, changing a bit their range of tricks.
Here we have very good spinners but so, oh damn so far from the real elite of penspinning.
It's so far from this elite that I'm just deceived. I know we can't force people to participate but we can wonder the credibility of this tournament and its winner.
Damn where is Eriror? Where is Taeryong? Where are those guys? They deserved to win? I don't know who are the judges but I'm so deceived. I'm really sad.. -
Date: Sun, Apr 26 2009 17:57:40QUOTEMinwoo -> you take his 4th round combo and you add 3 busts, anything new?
Nothing new, but it's good enough to take down Answer. Best to save up material for the finals, don't you think?QUOTEAnswer -> tourist, by far, I really don't understand how a guy like this have even managed to reach the round 2. Honestly, a 6 months spinner on FPSB is as skilled as him. Well, it just requests to get off the fingers out of his butthole, take the glasses and open the eyes
I agree, there are many WT spinners that should have been here instead, but there are no 6 month spinners in FPSB as good as answer. If there is, they're lying. "I've been only spinning 3 months and I am pro." Don't give me that bullshit.QUOTESpinnerpeem-> You take his round 1, you cut in parts the clip with Vegas, you mix everything, you randomly put everything together and you will have another round of Spinnerpeem, try and you'll have his possible round 5.
I see nothing wrong with what peem did, I think he put out a great combo. Better than his usual with a nice finisher. I've never seen anyone do a spread into palmspin into spread into palmspin -- I'd call that creative.
You have an odd opinion of what good pen spinning is, but I guess that shows in your spinning. -
Date: Sun, Apr 26 2009 18:06:51
Fratleym, I do not understand what you are trying to say here. Firstly you bash on supawit and peem by saying that they haven't brought anything new, this is fine, I also have this opinion. What confuses me is that you mention Taeryong as someone you find deserving of winning. What new things has Taeryong executed in this WT? Nothing. All of his combos are almost exactly the same: spam > fingeraround release. I have no idea what you see in that, it's not very difficult, even I can do that, hell, it's not even very creative. The last thing I have to say is on the topic of Answer. IMO Answer is a great spinner. I don't see why you're bashing on him as well. You say "Honestly, a 6 months spinner on FPSB is as skilled as him.",well, I don't know what to say except that if you could show me a 6 month spinner that's as good as Answer I would be extremely surprised.
Note: This may be a bit hard to understand because it's pretty much a stream of thoughts that I decided to write down without editing anything. -
Date: Mon, Apr 27 2009 09:51:13
fratleym , you are obsolete.
JEB?
who still spinning now?
ayatori?key3?seven?
KPSA?
nory?cloud traveler?
they are gone, nowadays KPSA & JEB are worse than before.
who can make high-creative combo in 6 rounds? you can?
sorry,my english is so poor -
Date: Mon, Apr 27 2009 10:49:05
it's very hard to show something new in EVERY round.
there are 6 rounds. well, you have to repeat something...
every spinner has hiss own tricks, which he repeats in every combo.
some more, some less.
peem and supawit have maximum skill, but repeat often. but nevertheless they are a bit creative, but in another way. you don't see it really, because they don't move their hands or something like that. it's not the creativity pyralux has. they don't invent new things, they put the "standart" spreads in a creative way together. in a way nobody can copy it oO.
answer is a very good spinner, but he has really problems with his cam posi. i never saw a combo of him, where he wasn't out of cam...
that's why his combos look so amateur-like.
he should really improve that...
indeed minwoo repeated some parts, but hey, all his other videos were very creative and he really brought some new stuff... more than peem and supawit together... so, don't say that he's worse because he repeated some stuff in this round...
i hate this fucking pressure... if you are a creative spinner, everybody wants to see new stuff in EVERY combo you make. and if you make one combo, which has repeating elements you are worse and everybody is disappointed...
i mean, we have no endless creativity. we have to think alot! maybe that's harder than practising busts...
and frat, if you are honestly: in your last combo, there were just one really new and creative element. the rest was also repeating and spinning like you do it all the time...
but that's no problem... every spinner is doing that... -
Date: Mon, Apr 27 2009 10:52:53
1. when are results due?
2. what are the prizes? -
Date: Mon, Apr 27 2009 15:17:57
In my opinion , this the first round where we are really beginning to see signs of fatigue from every competitor. We shouldn't really fault the participants however, but more the excessive length of the competition. 6 rounds, 5 months. That's a long time, and to maintain focus throughout is difficult. I remember that I felt the same way for WT07, which also lasted 6 rounds. When judging, it is important to remember that judges are looking at the videos and the videos only. What that means is that the decision of whether a spinner advance to the next round should be based on what is shown in the video, not whether or not the person has the potential to improve or have enough material for every round. That's not how it works. If a spinner goes all out in round 1 and makes an excellent video, then he should go to round 2. If that spinner then has nothing left to show in round 2, then he will be eliminated in the second round for making a bad video in roudn 2. But you wouldn't eliminate this person in round 1 just because he exhausted all his material in the first round.
What that means is that although it's possible that for this semifinals we could have gotten better videos if we had chosen spinners with more potential, the judges only evaluated the combos themselves from round 4 to determine the spinners in round 5, not their potential.
Furthermore, I'm sure that the spinners also feel some pressure in preparing for the final round. Some might have taken something off to make sure their final round is as good as possible. You can't really fault that kind of reasoning. It is an issue with the length of the tournament itself.
You know a tournament is too long when nobody has anything left to show in a round. Therefore the next tournament should probably stop after 3 or 4 rounds. We have developped a new structure in the Research Department which should accomplish that. In World Cup competition, length is less of an issue because a team can have substitute spinners which means you can "rest" spinners for several rounds and use your backup spinners. Having your substitutes spin at 100% of their potential for one round or two is probably better than having one of your regular spinners to spin only at 60-70%. A bit like relief pitching in baseball.
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Answer vs Minwoo: In my opinion, Answer's video is good, but unpolished. I think that his first round video is still his best in the tournament and he never really got up to that level again. In his case, I think it's either a lack of effort or time. In his round 4 video, the camera angle was a bit off but it was acceptable. It wasn't really affecting the combo. But for this round, it's a really noticeable issue. His first few videos had a very good angle, so I cannot understand why the angle was changed and got worse. Answer should just go back to the round 1 angle. The top-down angle doesn't really suit his spinning, the old angle made his spinning look more dynamic. As for the combo itself, to be honest, I didn't find anything that stands out after the first few views. This could have been due to the camera. After closer inspection, I did see some positive elements. I think the structure is very good and the mix of palm-down/palm-up sequences keep the combo fresh. The spider-spin ending is interesting. There's also an inverse shadow transition to palm-down in the middle that looks great. I feel that there is a mistake at :18. However I always get the feeling that with a better angle, we could see a lot more in this combo. I think Answer should have been able to refilm this video, but maybe he didn't have time.
I also think that Minwoo's combo is unpolished. It's definitely not as good as last round's video, but that's alright, all that matters is making a video better than your opponent. I suspect Minwoo is holding out for a stronger final video. This combo is very different from the previous round video as it focus on different ideas. The main elements of this combo are: the bust introduction, three hand transfers, an aerial interception and the ending. The intro I think is well done, although you can consider this kind of thing standard for this tournament now. I didn't like the transfers so much. Two of them were used earlier by Stuhl (which is fine), but they are very poorly executed. It seems a lack of effort or time that Minwoo didn't work on getting those transfers smoother before using them in a real combo. The middle transfer which contains a small amount of spin transfer is fine but nothing outstanding. Just a quick transition. The ending is quite weak, it's almost missed and has no power to it. There is also an aerial interception at :08 which I consider the real highlight of the video. Well done. But in general, I feel like it's just not well executed and denotes either a lack of effort or time to refilm this combo properly.
Winner: I'm not sure because both videos have obvious flaws. In my opinion, Answer's angle really limits the potential of his combo. With a better angle we could have seem a lot material and he would have had a definite chance to win. Similarly, if Minwoo works on those transfers, he could have been a sure winner as well. This battle really contains a lot of "what ifs" which is a bit disappointing. I think the idea of Answer's combo is better than Minwoo but concretely I really don't know. But I have a feeling judges will give the victory to Minwoo because Answer's combo gives a really bad first impression. If it was up to me, I would give a tie and let them refilm their videos so that we can see the true potential of their combos
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Supawit127 vs Spinnerpeem: I think this is a good battle and lives up to the expectations. I always considered Supawit127 to be a better spinner than peem but I don't think this is case in this battle. I think Supawit's video starts out great. The furious combination of difficult power tricks looks very good. However I think the pace slows down considerably after that two-handed move (which I didn't like so much). The tricks become less memorable and the ending is just flat. You get the feeling, especially at :21, that Supawit127 doesn't know how and when to end the combo anymore so he just makes a random ending. There is a hesitation. Could have used some better preparation.
Spinnerpeem's video is my favorite for this round. Now I can't say that means much though because the two videos from the other battle are poor and I like peem's video better than supawit. What I like about his combo is that it features a better structure than previous rounds. The strong move at :09 is very well integrated. It feels like a real "explosion" and shows that peem is able to vary his pace and intensity within a combo, which makes his combo look more exciting. The ending is also very spectacular and difficult. IMO this combo might be his best so far. If spinnerpeem has become mature enough to understand how to build combos effectively, then this promises great things for the final.
Winner: Spinnerpeem. -
Date: Mon, Apr 27 2009 22:39:21
Answer didn't have enough time to film, he filmed til 3:00 in the Morning on Friday night, this combo is already completely different from what he planned originally. I'm not trying to find a excuse, but that's just the fact. This angle problem i'm not too sure, but it might be due to the limited light source at night.
I asked if he wanted to refilm the second day(China time Saturday, but Friday at some other location on Earth), he tried but i think he was not able to. -
Date: Mon, Apr 27 2009 22:58:15
What happened to Answer's angle back then at AC??
Why couldnt he just stick to that? It was a good angle. -
Date: Mon, Apr 27 2009 23:06:34QUOTE (FratleymメFS @ Apr 26 2009, 10:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Sorry but that's my way of thinking. In 2007, we had some real spinners with real style. They managed to surprise. I mean making some other things, changing a bit their range of tricks.
Here we have very good spinners but so, oh damn so far from the real elite of penspinning.
Damn where is Eriror? Where is Taeryong? Where are those guys? They deserved to win? I don't know who are the judges but I'm so deceived. I'm really sad..
u mean spinners like KTH taeryong cloud traveller etc?
well i dont think it's about KTH anymore.. no offense but his spinning isnt that special.
and taeryong just lacks creativity. same stuff every round basically. not special eitherQUOTE (CNstar @ Apr 27 2009, 02:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>fratleym , you are obsolete.
JEB?
who still spinning now?
ayatori?key3?seven?
KPSA?
nory?cloud traveler?
they are gone, nowadays KPSA & JEB are worse than before.
sir, you are so wrong. that is just total BS...
i might be contradicting myself but there are spinners other than nory cloud traveller kth taeryong etc...
there are alot more.
and JEB... you think ayatori key3 seven saizen kuzu raimo are all outdated?
first, they arent
second, there are others who are capable of handling wt&wc
third, how are kpsa and jeb worse?
what the hell are you thinking... -
Date: Tue, Apr 28 2009 07:21:38
My post was not made only to launch criticism
I made this post to launch a debate about the credibility of the finalists, that's all
What is fun and I was not expecting that: many spinners came to see me to tell that they were sharing my opinion.
Yesterday, even a Thai spinners told me that a lot of people in thailand were thinking in the same way but they didn't tell it.
What I summarize is that it's definitely hard to organize a tournament like this. It's biaised everywhere.
At the beginning, I was thinking that it coule be possible to have a perfect tournament but definitely not.
Even an optimal one, it's gonna be hard.
It's cool that Zombo is working on it.
To me the tournament was here to congratulate spinners that have brought much to penspinning.
But I was wrong, tournament is not made for that, it just doesn't work like that.
I'm just feeling sad for all those spinners that have made everything, they have created a lot. I'm thinking about key3, angmaramyon, pyralux. And they just don't get the award they deserve. Maybe they don't want one, but they just deserve one.
Maybe we should create something to award those spinners.
Maybe not the greatest but the genius that create.
Even if we rate this tournament with 4 criterias, it's basically only the technical aspect which is awarded.
Ok I can understand but why there's nothing to award creativity and the spinners that brought much during 2 years.(tournament time)
So maybe I should create one
-
Date: Tue, Apr 28 2009 08:21:00
IMO:
Answer vs. Minwoo
Supawit127 vs. Spinnerpeem
Answer FTW!!! -
Date: Tue, Apr 28 2009 09:47:21
@frat:
but this is a tournament...
a tournament always bases on technical stuff.
i mean, of course, there are alot of spinners who deserve an award (maybe kinda "nobel prize"). but you can't do that with a "tournament"
example:
i think albert einstein wouldn't have won a speed-calculating tournament, but nevertheless he won prizes.
is that the point you mean, frat?
imo that would be a great idea, but nevertheless we need tournaments... we just have to have mind, that the tournament winner is technical perfect and the winner of a "nobel prize" is someone who improved ps and invented new stuff, etc.
but who deserves a "nobel prize"... there are many many many people who did alot...
then we need an international comitee to decide xD
ah, i don't know...
but i'm happy, that there is progress and people try to improve the situation!
i mean, ps really exists for about 3/4 years now (with forums, rules, etc.). that's nothing... inventing a really good system takes a lot of time and a lot of !errors!. maybe this tournament was one of these errors (imo it was'nt that bad!) and there will be more errors. but in the ende there will be less and then maybe we have a really good system. maybe in 10 years, maybe in 20... i don't know maybe in 5 years ps dies? we can't say... -
Date: Tue, Apr 28 2009 15:31:00
fratleym, what you want isn't really a tournament, it's an award.
it wouldn't be decided by judging videos, it would be decided by looking at the achievements of different spinners for their career...
it's not even a competition
totally different
you don't judge people by their fame or by their accomplishments in a tournament, you look at videos and that's it. -
Date: Tue, Apr 28 2009 15:43:34
I think it needs to have some repeating part
because that is the structure of thier own style.
although answer's combo has flaws and problem of angle
but he tries his best
and that's enough
..I'm sorry but I'm really not good at English -
Date: Tue, Apr 28 2009 21:09:32
Frat if a 6 month spinner is as good or better than answer , answer these please:
Why aren`t you were Answer is now?
Why isn`t this 6 month spinner were Answer is now?
Why isn`t all of FPSB WT picks in the WT atm. Im pretty sure all of them are 1.5 -2 years atleast? (the ones who wanted to compete)
In My Opinion:
Answer just didn't bring it this round ,but he sure as hell shouldn't be compared to someone who is 6 months.
Thx for listening -
Date: Tue, Apr 28 2009 22:44:31QUOTE (Zombo @ Apr 27 2009, 08:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>You know a tournament is too long when nobody has anything left to show in a round. Therefore the next tournament should probably stop after 3 or 4 rounds. We have developed a new structure in the Research Department which should accomplish that. In World Cup competition, length is less of an issue because a team can have substitute spinners which means you can "rest" spinners for several rounds and use your backup spinners. Having your substitutes spin at 100% of their potential for one round or two is probably better than having one of your regular spinners to spin only at 60-70%. A bit like relief pitching in baseball.
O.o We finished it already? I had no idea.
Or are you saying we're still working on it?QUOTEFrat if a 6 month spinner is as good or better than answer , answer these please:
Why aren`t you were Answer is now?
Why isn`t this 6 month spinner were Answer is now?
Why isn`t all of FPSB WT picks in the WT atm. Im pretty sure all of them are 1.5 -2 years atleast? (the ones who wanted to compete)
In My Opinion:
Answer just didn't bring it this round ,but he sure as hell shouldn't be compared to someone who is 6 months.
Thx for listening
1. Because of the tournament structure.
2. Because of the whole board ranking/weighting thing that doesn't exist yet. -
Date: Wed, Apr 29 2009 06:32:08QUOTEFrat if a 6 month spinner is as good or better than answer , answer these please:
Why aren`t you were Answer is now?
Why isn`t this 6 month spinner were Answer is now?
Why isn`t all of FPSB WT picks in the WT atm. Im pretty sure all of them are 1.5 -2 years atleast? (the ones who wanted to compete)
In My Opinion:
Answer just didn't bring it this round ,but he sure as hell shouldn't be compared to someone who is 6 months.
Thx for listening
1. Because of the tournament structure.
2. Because of the whole board ranking/weighting thing that doesn't exist yet.
3. I'm just saying that I don't understand how so it answers (hum) to your question
4. Because I'm not a judge
-
Date: Wed, Apr 29 2009 12:26:31
well, I'm pretty sure that Answer is really good, and I'm also sure that 6 month, or even 1 year-spinner can't be better than Answer if he show his best....
Second, go Supawit127, become the champion....
-
Date: Wed, Apr 29 2009 17:57:22
I agree with Fratleym completely. This is only the second world tournament, so you cant expect it to be perfect. But after this one, a lot of things should change because there were a lot of misakes. s777, Eriror and several other spinners should have won.
Answer shouldnt have been able to get this far. Dongza owned him last round, but he lost. I still dont know what everyone sees in him.
This world tournament is messed up. Most of the best spinners have lost already... I lost intrest in this tournament when Fratleym and Eriror both got knocked out in the same round... Peem, Supawit, and Answer should have all lost by now...
Sorry for this being un-organized... I just type is as I think it up. -
Date: Thu, Apr 30 2009 06:23:56QUOTE (Mystic @ Apr 30 2009, 03:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I agree with Fratleym completely. This is only the second world tournament, so you cant expect it to be perfect. But after this one, a lot of things should change because there were a lot of misakes. s777, Eriror and several other spinners should have won.
Answer shouldnt have been able to get this far. Dongza owned him last round, but he lost. I still dont know what everyone sees in him.
This world tournament is messed up. Most of the best spinners have lost already... I lost intrest in this tournament when Fratleym and Eriror both got knocked out in the same round... Peem, Supawit, and Answer should have all lost by now...
Sorry for this being un-organized... I just type is as I think it up.
Peem and Supawit shoud've been knocked out as well? I think you should re-think that. Peem has beat most of his opponents by a pretty big margin, and Supawit has filmed some pretty nice combos as well. -
Date: Thu, Apr 30 2009 06:51:46QUOTEPeem and Supawit shoud've been knocked out as well? I think you should re-think that. Peem has beat most of his opponents by a pretty big margin, and Supawit has filmed some pretty nice combos as well.
I just can't get out of my head that 5 judge is far too short to judge one's video.
They were twice last time.
I think that it's far more pratical for Crash to have only 5 judges, and even 5 is hard to manage for him.
The fact is that it can't work like this. Penspinning is wolrdwide and we can't have only 5 people from ONLY 5 countries deciding.
Statistically talking, it's a very big mistake to have some fairness.
In competition, there's always participant from one country and judge from this country so it can be fair from everyone
I explain with my battle for example, I'm sure it was not like that, it's just an example :
judges are from (still: example) : GPC, THSPC,KPSA,UPSB, JEB
so my battle against Minwoo, Minwoo have a point because I do not have a french judge to balance.
I'm not saying judges are biased but it's like that, people are always influenced in a way they 're not always seeing.
We have to have more judges according to the countries participating, that's all
I don't know how to organize it but it's like that. Otherwise it will not be fair and credible. -
Date: Thu, Apr 30 2009 08:55:27
I just wanted to say a few things, firstly i agree with Fratleym in the fact that there are a lot of good spinners that are not getting credit were they are deserved and maybe that can be changed by introducing a peoples choice award or something whereby the forum public (members) vote for a peoples choice award out of the tournament competitors. It's something that we can work on for the next event.
There has been a lot of criticsm about the judges and the judging system and i can understand that but i can assure you the judges are all very good spinners themselves and know what they are talking about. Zombo and i were discussing a little time ago about maybe getting each community to choose a judge themselves (somebody they think is worthy to be a judge) so all the judges would be known to everybody. About the judging criteria myself and zombo will work on that for the coming events as i think it does need still a bit of work on.
As Kam was saying in one of his posts before, the tournament is still new even though it started in 2007, there are still a lot of things we can work on to improve the future events.
I just want to lastly apologize as i havent been posting much throughout the tournament as i was in 2007, im working at the moment its quiet tough reading every post on each forum and replying but i try and answer emails whenever i can. -
Date: Thu, Apr 30 2009 15:54:52
I think minwoo will win.
Not sure about supawit and spinnerpeem but i like supawit's style. Fast and smooth. -
Date: Fri, May 1 2009 04:25:59
i think the wt should be more like the ncaa basketball tournament hahaha
i agree with fratleym too -
Date: Fri, May 1 2009 07:36:20
Insane! But, I guess Minwoo and peem win.
-
Date: Fri, May 1 2009 14:36:20QUOTE (FratleymメFS @ Apr 30 2009, 01:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I just can't get out of my head that 5 judge is far too short to judge one's video.
They were twice last time.
I think that it's far more pratical for Crash to have only 5 judges, and even 5 is hard to manage for him.
The fact is that it can't work like this. Penspinning is wolrdwide and we can't have only 5 people from ONLY 5 countries deciding.
Statistically talking, it's a very big mistake to have some fairness.
In competition, there's always participant from one country and judge from this country so it can be fair from everyone
I explain with my battle for example, I'm sure it was not like that, it's just an example :
judges are from (still: example) : GPC, THSPC,KPSA,UPSB, JEB
so my battle against Minwoo, Minwoo have a point because I do not have a french judge to balance.
I'm not saying judges are biased but it's like that, people are always influenced in a way they 're not always seeing.
We have to have more judges according to the countries participating, that's all
I don't know how to organize it but it's like that. Otherwise it will not be fair and credible.
I agree. Just like you said that a lot of French spinners preferred Taeryong over Peem. Each country has their own idea of what a good combo is. So you really do need one from each community participating.QUOTE (CrAsH @ Apr 30 2009, 03:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I just wanted to say a few things, firstly i agree with Fratleym in the fact that there are a lot of good spinners that are not getting credit were they are deserved and maybe that can be changed by introducing a peoples choice award or something whereby the forum public (members) vote for a peoples choice award out of the tournament competitors. It's something that we can work on for the next event.
There has been a lot of criticsm about the judges and the judging system and i can understand that but i can assure you the judges are all very good spinners themselves and know what they are talking about. Zombo and i were discussing a little time ago about maybe getting each community to choose a judge themselves (somebody they think is worthy to be a judge) so all the judges would be known to everybody. About the judging criteria myself and zombo will work on that for the coming events as i think it does need still a bit of work on.
As Kam was saying in one of his posts before, the tournament is still new even though it started in 2007, there are still a lot of things we can work on to improve the future events.
I just want to lastly apologize as i havent been posting much throughout the tournament as i was in 2007, im working at the moment its quiet tough reading every post on each forum and replying but i try and answer emails whenever i can.
Well, you cant rely on a public vote. Most of the public will only vote for the most appealling/favorite spinner, etc. The public doesnt always really look at the combo and at what makes it up. There could possibly be a way to incorporate the public voting some way, but you have to make sure that theyre voting for the spinner who should win, not just for their favorite spinner.
-
Date: Fri, May 1 2009 15:03:43QUOTE (CrAsH @ Apr 30 2009, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I just wanted to say a few things, firstly i agree with Fratleym in the fact that there are a lot of good spinners that are not getting credit were they are deserved and maybe that can be changed by introducing a peoples choice award or something whereby the forum public (members) vote for a peoples choice award out of the tournament competitors. It's something that we can work on for the next event.
There has been a lot of criticsm about the judges and the judging system and i can understand that but i can assure you the judges are all very good spinners themselves and know what they are talking about. Zombo and i were discussing a little time ago about maybe getting each community to choose a judge themselves (somebody they think is worthy to be a judge) so all the judges would be known to everybody. About the judging criteria myself and zombo will work on that for the coming events as i think it does need still a bit of work on.
As Kam was saying in one of his posts before, the tournament is still new even though it started in 2007, there are still a lot of things we can work on to improve the future events.
I just want to lastly apologize as i havent been posting much throughout the tournament as i was in 2007, im working at the moment its quiet tough reading every post on each forum and replying but i try and answer emails whenever i can.
I was going to give you that suggestion. First of all, as you said all the communities can represent their own judges. Then we can have 75% of judges marks and the remaining 25% from the People's Choice for the rounds other than the finals. This 25% can be be increased to 40% or 50% for the finals.
-
Date: Sat, May 2 2009 08:42:52QUOTE (Mystic @ May 1 2009, 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I agree. Just like you said that a lot of French spinners preferred Taeryong over Peem. Each country has their own idea of what a good combo is. So you really do need one from each community participating.
Well, you cant rely on a public vote. Most of the public will only vote for the most appealling/favorite spinner, etc. The public doesnt always really look at the combo and at what makes it up. There could possibly be a way to incorporate the public voting some way, but you have to make sure that theyre voting for the spinner who should win, not just for their favorite spinner.
I mean there will be the winnner of the tournament + there could be a peoples choice award selected by the forum members of a participate in the tournament that deserved to get something. So the members wont have anything to do with the judging of the competition itself just voting to give one participant the peoples choice award. For example in football (soccer) in the premier league, you have the premiership winners, but then you also have the football player of the year award which is voted for by the public of a player who deserves the award throughout his contribution to football throughout that league year. Its the same with this peoples choice award. I mean the award could also be named spinner of the tournament or something, could be called anything.
-
Date: Sat, May 2 2009 09:31:53QUOTE (CrAsH @ May 2 2009, 06:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I mean there will be the winnner of the tournament + there could be a peoples choice award selected by the forum members of a participate in the tournament that deserved to get something. So the members wont have anything to do with the judging of the competition itself just voting to give one participant the peoples choice award. For example in football (soccer) in the premier league, you have the premiership winners, but then you also have the football player of the year award which is voted for by the public of a player who deserves the award throughout his contribution to football throughout that league year. Its the same with this peoples choice award. I mean the award could also be named spinner of the tournament or something, could be called anything.
It wouldn't work if it was just forum members because it would become a popularity contest. You need a panel of people aside from the judges to vote as well and their vote should count as more. -
Date: Sat, May 2 2009 10:24:27
I think it would definitely be Supawit127 vs Minwoo in the finals....
And, Minwoo would win
-
Date: Sat, May 2 2009 16:46:10QUOTE (chogoling @ May 2 2009, 10:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It wouldn't work if it was just forum members because it would become a popularity contest. You need a panel of people aside from the judges to vote as well and their vote should count as more.
but the vote wont be just on upsb, each forum would be voting on the wt site, which means variety from all different types of forums. Unless we get just admins of each forum to vote or something. We still have time before the next event to work on something. -
Date: Sat, May 2 2009 16:49:33
....waiting for results
it's late again.... -
Date: Sat, May 2 2009 18:16:46
spinerpeem ftw <3
-
Date: Sat, May 2 2009 20:22:50
late results = getting annoying
Crash, I see what you mean now. The peoples vote is only PART of the judging. I think thats a much better idea and way of doing it. But thats only one way to improve the tournaments.
Also, I would like to see a world tounament every year instead of every two because a lot of spinners dont keep spinning for an extended period of time. But thats just a random idea. -
Date: Sun, May 3 2009 03:41:05
Hey Alex I definitely agree on the separate awards idea. It could be voted by the public or just some groups of people (like judges, participating spinners, mods or whatever) like some lifetime achievement award. If it turned into a popularity contest then, uhh, that wouldn't really be a problem, would it? I mean that's the whole point, having a popularity award so that everyone (or most) could be happy.
-
Date: Sun, May 3 2009 04:35:23QUOTE (Mystic @ May 2 2009, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>late results = getting annoying
Crash, I see what you mean now. The peoples vote is only PART of the judging. I think thats a much better idea and way of doing it. But thats only one way to improve the tournaments.
Also, I would like to see a world tounament every year instead of every two because a lot of spinners dont keep spinning for an extended period of time. But thats just a random idea.
next year it's the world cup. -
Date: Sun, May 3 2009 09:38:01
hm, but i think if there is an award and the tournament.
(award for example "best spinner of the tournament")
then imo the winner of the tournament will 90% be the winner of the award...
not?
well, in football there are teams with more than 11 people... here we have one spinner consisting of 1 people
i don't think such an award would be senseless.
an award like "best pen of the tournament" would be more useful. (or another award, not concerning the spinning-skills and style)
results, come! -
Date: Sun, May 3 2009 11:32:17
i agree with the awards idea.
ive been thinking about that b4 this..damMIT! why aw whatever. .
imo there should be like a:
==========================
most creative spinner
fastest spinner
most stylish spinner
best new spinner
perhaps even
best spinner in round 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc.
best pen
=========================
that would make an awesome music video xD