UPSB v3
Battlezone / UPSB official Team Tournament
Round 1 results+round 2
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Date: Thu, May 14 2009 18:10:16
Round 2 lineups are up, due date for line ups is 14.5, due date for videos is 24.5
Round 2 Tag combo:
Zero to Hero vs Vengeance
Heroes of tomorrow vs ???? ps. (Unified Path)
Armageddon vs Demon Origins
Encore vs East Coast Spinners
Against every other team in your bracket the battle is a single combo.
Lineups are due at 14.5
Deadline for videos is 24.5
Round 1 has been decided following with the brackets for the tournament!
Round 2 matches:
Group A:
The KOok (Vengeance) vs AwonW (UP)
midnight_xhris (Zero to Hero) vs Santa (UP)
Shadowserpant, with Charlie as sub (special occasion, confirmed directly by me) (Heroes of tomorrow) vs Kazeem (Vengeance)
Xero (Heroes of tomorrow) vs wo_shi_ni (ZtH)
Samuirai + Jopi (Vengeance) vs Zweebna + chobi (Zero to Hero)
Baaron + Sankaku (Heroes of tomorrow) vs Mhig & VN (UP)
Group B:
Raem (DGN) vs. Frip (Encore)
AyySoLo (DGN) vs. Pencell (East Coast Spinner)
Awesome (Armageddon) VS MoDiFieD (ECS)
Sadistic (Armageddon) VS Thumbskiller (Encore)
BaiMai & arnold (DGN) vs. Ellusion67 and XYZaki (Armageddon)
Stormcannon1 and IAmTheMrGuy (ECS) vs cienki and Clyde (Encore)
Round 1 results:
Group A:
TheKOok (vengeance)67,73,71,80,65->70 vs Charlie (Heroes of Tomorrow) 68,66,71,79,52->68
Jopi (Vengeance) (Auto win)vs Chobi (Zero to Hero)
midnight_xhris (Zero to Hero) vs K2 (Unified Path) (Auto win)
Shadowserpant (Heroes of Tomorrow) 78,75,77,88,58->77 vs Mhig (Unified Path) 72,76,77,67,61->72
Tags:
Steffen + Neophine (vengeance) 71,73,64,76,50->69 vs AwonW and VN (Unified Path) 65,61,62,47,57->60
Baaron and tomohiro (Heroes of Tomorrow) 74,68,71,73,52->71 vs Zweebna and Wo_shi_ni (Zero To Hero) 62,61,39,46->56
Group B:
BaiMai (Demon Origins) 74,66,70,81,61->70 vs Sadistic (Armageddon) 73,73,67,76,52->71
Ellusion67 (Armageddon) (Auto win) vs Clyde (Encore)
white (Encore) vs (Auto win) Stormcannon1 (ECS)
Pencell (ECS) 74,59,68,76,37->67 vs Ayysolo (Demon Origins) 80,61,65,61,56->62
Tags:
IAmTheMrGuy and MoDIFieD (ECS) vs (Auto win) Awesome and XYZaki (Armageddon)
Frip and thumbskiller (Encore) vs (Auto win) Raem & arnold (Demon Origins)
I hope more people will turn in their vids in round 2.
As of now the standings are:
Group A: Points:
Zero to Hero 0
???? ps. (Unified Path) 1
Vengeance 3
Heroes of Tomorrow 2
Group B: Points:
Demon Origins 1
East Coast Spinners 2
Armageddon 3
Encore 0 -
Date: Thu, May 14 2009 18:20:50
Sucks. I was hoping ones whose opponents didn't send a vid would be judged too
. lol. I was curious .
Anyway, sucks, how could Ayysolo lose?.gif)
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Date: Thu, May 14 2009 18:28:08
From now on- upload the videos to a site like Youtube, no more download sites as they sometimes cause problems.
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Date: Thu, May 14 2009 18:28:32
what the hell? I lost? .......
And how did mhig score so low? Baimi friggin cut his clip. He should have scored lower. Avysolo was a lot better than Pencell. But I guess he did drop... Shouldn't have cost him the win though. Meh. Why is shadow's score the highest? :| Bastards. -
Date: Thu, May 14 2009 19:07:29
wow... i was expecting a loss.. but not that badly... whats the judging criteria?
i'm getting rather.. agitated at the judges after viewing the others results... maybe it's just me but i see a lot of favoritism here... -
Date: Thu, May 14 2009 19:27:43
I don't know about you, but I picked judges that had no influence whatsoever with this tournament or it's participants.
And the criteria is:
30% difficulty, smoothness, creativity (each)
10% appeal
Also- most of the judges are experienced spinners with at least 3 years or more, others are good spinners and trusted members. -
Date: Thu, May 14 2009 19:31:37
wait, charlie lost and ECS is second place in our division. KAPOW! And the tournament is off to an interesting start. Good job everyone, the videos were nice
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Date: Thu, May 14 2009 19:48:56QUOTE (IAmTheMrGuy @ May 14 2009, 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>wait, charlie lost and ECS is second place in our division. KAPOW! And the tournament is off to an interesting start. Good job everyone, the videos were nice
SHAMPOW!!
w00p~~ -
Date: Thu, May 14 2009 19:48:56
some results seem wrong
pencell has average of 62.8
ayysolo average 64.6
i did not check others but i suggest you double check -
Date: Thu, May 14 2009 19:55:59QUOTE (Zombo @ May 14 2009, 01:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>some results seem wrong
pencell has average of 62.8
ayysolo average 64.6
i did not check others but i suggest you double check
I'm pretty sure Pencell's 37 is a 73.. That would also explain the average. Same with Ayysolo, probably just typos. -
Date: Thu, May 14 2009 19:56:23
I excluded best and worst, forgot to tell >_<
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Date: Thu, May 14 2009 19:59:54
Yeah, zombo's right. The averaging is done incorrectly. Actually, my score is only 67. Which means I did worse than most of the people in the tournament and my video barely as good as Pencell's. I know I'm not that good, but seriously, I don't suck that much. Who the hell are these judges? The anonymous judging is annoying. Especially with scores like this. The judges need some sense slapped into them.
Oh, whoops. Hadn't read the waves latest post. My score's right. My bad, thewave. -
Date: Thu, May 14 2009 20:46:32
Scoring needs improvement imo
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Date: Thu, May 14 2009 20:55:24
Round 2 match ups have been posted.
If there is any mistake please tell me. -
Date: Thu, May 14 2009 21:43:18QUOTE (Charlie @ May 14 2009, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yeah, zombo's right. The averaging is done incorrectly. Actually, my score is only 67. Which means I did worse than most of the people in the tournament and my video barely as good as Pencell's. I know I'm not that good, but seriously, I don't suck that much. Who the hell are these judges? The anonymous judging is annoying. Especially with scores like this. The judges need some sense slapped into them.
Oh, whoops. Hadn't read the waves latest post. My score's right. My bad, thewave.
just like the WT, you do know absolute points mean nothing right? only relative scores. -
Date: Thu, May 14 2009 22:10:54
Hmm... The scoring has some oddities imo =\ Although I'm not happy that Charlie lost
...
and I'm glad that shadowserpant won by such a big point difference which gives me a lot more confidence in him next round
-Going back to those oddities that I mentioned, I find it weird that there are such big point differences among the judges.. like a 20 point difference on the same vid? =\ I dunno, I think that's just weird >.>''
Well, good luck to everyone during the 2nd round. Hopefully, HoT can take 3 for 3 this time >:] -
Date: Thu, May 14 2009 22:42:18
Ayysolo vs Pencell again? o.o
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Date: Thu, May 14 2009 23:13:03
i lost?
true, my combo wasn't awesome, but ....
w/e, and i'm facing pencell again? -
Date: Thu, May 14 2009 23:27:18
im as surprised as everyone, i dont understand why the autowins went unjudged though
QUOTE (Thewave @ May 14 2009, 11:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>From now on- upload the videos to a site like Youtube, no more download sites as they sometimes cause problems.
I highly disagree with this...
I have problems with youtube, or any streaming sites, nothing I upload ever plays correctly, I don't find that very fair at all...
and what were the problems anywayQUOTE (JC @ May 14 2009, 03:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>and I'm glad that shadowserpant won by such a big point difference which gives me a lot more confidence in him next round
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Date: Thu, May 14 2009 23:29:37QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ May 14 2009, 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>im as surprised as everyone, i dont understand why the autowins went unjudged though
I highly disagree with this...
I have problems with youtube, or any streaming sites, nothing I upload ever plays correctly, I don't find that very fair at all...
use the upsb uploader. -
Date: Fri, May 15 2009 00:06:23
i do
no streaming uploads ever give me a good final product, and other people have HQ and HD options for youtube and stuff...
i think we should have the option of direct... -
Date: Fri, May 15 2009 00:10:21QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ May 14 2009, 08:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i do
no streaming uploads ever give me a good final product, and other people have HQ and HD options for youtube and stuff...
i think we should have the option of direct...
ew... but having download links are annoying >.>'' and it's not gonna make a big difference if it's not in HQ and HD, we can still see the tricks clearly and without much lag
--i'm uploading yours using the upsb uploader if you give me a download link this round i dont' care what you say 
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Date: Fri, May 15 2009 00:13:22
Its annoying to the viewers and judges if they have to download though, also uploading might take off a bit of quality, but it shouldn't make a difference, there is no quality category.
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Date: Fri, May 15 2009 00:18:32
okay i'll just give it to john to download
but it does make a difference when you cant see anything -
Date: Fri, May 15 2009 00:19:01
Yah, not sure if the judges could handle any more categories as it is all ready...
<-- (sarcastic comment)
I really don't see whats wrong with dl links though... It doesn't take that long to download and i don't see how there would be any problems... -
Date: Fri, May 15 2009 03:01:11
meh.. i think everyone is completely influenced by the world tournament spinners... everything just seems to revolve around their concepts...
whatever.. i'm gonna spin the way i want to spin, i don't really care if it doesn't appeal to the judges. -
Date: Fri, May 15 2009 03:04:26QUOTE (mhig @ May 14 2009, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>meh.. i think everyone is completely influenced by the world tournament spinners... everything just seems to revolve around their concepts...
whatever.. i'm gonna spin the way i want to spin, i don't really care if it doesn't appeal to the judges.
Nah, the judges just suck. I don't understand why you scored so low, mhig. I liked your combo. -
Date: Fri, May 15 2009 03:19:22
@Charlie: thanks~
i really liked your combo too~ i don't see how you lost either..
but yea.. for me whats most appealing is the old style korean combos.. back in the day with world tournament 2007, cloud traveler, vision, uriel, nagi, nanna, kth, chuchon all those guys.. i'm sorta trying to follow their steps.. idk but they just perfect all their combos..
idk what everyone's sense of perfect is but i'd say something about it is influenced by the world tournament.. they expect that difficulty and such creativity seen in the world tournament. but yea.. it's the 'new standard' for some people i guess.. gotta move on eh? -
Date: Fri, May 15 2009 03:38:30QUOTE (mhig @ May 14 2009, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>@Charlie: thanks~ i really liked your combo too~ i don't see how you lost either..
but yea.. for me whats most appealing is the old style korean combos.. back in the day with world tournament 2007, cloud traveler, vision, uriel, nagi, nanna, kth, chuchon all those guys.. i'm sorta trying to follow their steps.. idk but they just perfect all their combos..
idk what everyone's sense of perfect is but i'd say something about it is influenced by the world tournament.. they expect that difficulty and such creativity seen in the world tournament. but yea.. it's the 'new standard' for some people i guess.. gotta move on eh?
I agree completely. Powerful words.
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Date: Fri, May 15 2009 04:56:20
I like how the WT has set new standards. Pen spinning's going to keep changing. It's not going to remain stagnant just because you liked how it was in the "older days."
Gotta keep up with the flow, mhig. Unless, you don't want to, of course. -
Date: Fri, May 15 2009 08:53:17
Wait, who are the judges? :/
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Date: Fri, May 15 2009 08:55:20
Judges are known only to me.
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Date: Fri, May 15 2009 13:21:18
Will there names be realeased after the TT?
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Date: Fri, May 15 2009 13:55:47QUOTE (mhig @ May 14 2009, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>@Charlie: thanks~ i really liked your combo too~ i don't see how you lost either..
but yea.. for me whats most appealing is the old style korean combos.. back in the day with world tournament 2007, cloud traveler, vision, uriel, nagi, nanna, kth, chuchon all those guys..
-bleh...uriel....never understood how people could like that spinning
-I should have lost imo....and I don't think baimai cut his video charlie
-why did we send in lineups before we got to see results.....you better revise that next round because it could mean the difference between going on to the finals or not for some teams.....
-does anyone know if thumbskiller actually spins at this time? cause I don't really feel like trying incredibly hard on a video that is not going to be judged.... -
Date: Fri, May 15 2009 14:04:07
scoring low means nothing unless you're saying "the point differential is big", in which case mhig did "score low" compared to shadowserpant
everything is relative, absolute scores mean nothing, difference in points between judges mean nothing. one judge could say worse video of each match gets 0, the other gets above that, it really doesnt matter, nobody has ever set any standard for judging.
to be honest, all that matters is whether a judge think one video is better than another, i wouldn't even count the point differential, just the "votes" -
Date: Fri, May 15 2009 14:11:33
yar....like if mhig was against S777 (just an example of a stronger spinner than shadowserpant, no offense shadowserpant) he would have scored even lower because of the even bigger difference in video quality....
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Date: Fri, May 15 2009 17:00:12
Aw, well that sucks, eh? Losing because your cam quality isn't as good as someone else's?
Anyway, thewave sent me my scores for this round and I still don't think they make sense. On average, my scores for difficulty are in the D range while my scores for appeal ranged to about a B. Even relative to thekook, that makes no sense.
And if baimai didn't cut his video (which I'm giving him the benefit of a doubt), he should have won. -
Date: Fri, May 15 2009 17:17:42QUOTE (Charlie @ May 15 2009, 08:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Aw, well that sucks, eh? Losing because your cam quality isn't as good as someone else's?
Anyway, thewave sent me my scores for this round and I still don't think they make sense. On average, my scores for difficulty are in the F range while my scores for appeal ranged to about a B. Even relative to thekook, that makes no sense.
And if baimai didn't cut his video (which I'm giving him the benefit of a doubt), he should have won.
I didn't put cam quality as a factor.
And Charlie- you difficulty scores are rather high (22.25 avg) but other things were lacking, you know them.
I also corrected Mhig's score, I accidentally didn't copy the right score to Mhig from one of the judges, although it doesn't change the overall outcome- it does improve his score a bit. -
Date: Fri, May 15 2009 17:24:00QUOTE (Thewave @ May 15 2009, 09:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I didn't put cam quality as a factor.
And Charlie- you difficulty scores are rather high (22.25 avg) but other things were lacking, you know them.
I also corrected Mhig's score, I accidentally didn't copy the right score to Mhig from one of the judges, although it doesn't change the overall outcome- it does improve his score a bit.
A 22/30 is high? And I had very low scores in creativity, which isn't totally unreasonable I guess, but I don't see how thekook is anymore creative. I used some unique bak variations that are quite unique, doesn't that count for something? Creative linkage? I bet if I did something obvious and banged my pen against the wall, I would have gotten more pts for creativity. lawl.
And avysolo lost to pencell because he made a mistake at the end. That's the only reason I can think of him losing, but thekook also made a mistake in his combo, yet he still won. -
Date: Fri, May 15 2009 23:25:11QUOTE (Charlie @ May 15 2009, 01:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>A 22/30 is high? And I had very low scores in creativity, which isn't totally unreasonable I guess, but I don't see how thekook is anymore creative. I used some unique bak variations that are quite unique, doesn't that count for something? Creative linkage? I bet if I did something obvious and banged my pen against the wall, I would have gotten more pts for creativity. lawl.
And avysolo lost to pencell because he made a mistake at the end. That's the only reason I can think of him losing, but thekook also made a mistake in his combo, yet he still won.
eh, other than that mistake at the end, i think i also lost on video quality
-
Date: Fri, May 15 2009 23:28:00QUOTE (AyySoLo @ May 15 2009, 03:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>eh, other than that mistake at the end, i think i also lost on video qualityQUOTEI didn't put cam quality as a factor.
Which still doesn't explain why mhig lost so badly. -
Date: Sat, May 16 2009 01:29:42
@ charlie
im not angry u at all that u said i was editing my vdo. i just wanna say i didnt do anything with the vdo, i know its pretty hard to believe.
imo the result is acceptable and congratulation with sadistic u should have won^^QUOTEeh, other than that mistake at the end, i think i also lost on video quality
but u said that mistake was on purpose
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Date: Sat, May 16 2009 01:30:30
why is 22/30 is considered low? thats totally subjective, as long as a judge is consistent to his own standard its fine
i already said it, treating scores objectively in ps makes no sense
stick to looking at what you got less than your opponent, that tells you that you were less difficult/creative/smooth/whatever than your opponent, do not ever make any other inferences from the scores. anything beyond that is overinterpretation. -
Date: Sat, May 16 2009 01:52:18QUOTE (Zombo @ May 15 2009, 05:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>why is 22/30 is considered low? thats totally subjective, as long as a judge is consistent to his own standard its fine
i already said it, treating scores objectively in ps makes no sense
stick to looking at what you got less than your opponent, that tells you that you were less difficult/creative/smooth/whatever than your opponent, do not ever make any other inferences from the scores. anything beyond that is overinterpretation.
Well, then I don't see how my combo was less smooth, difficult, and creative than thekooks. Especially when the kook had a major flaw in his combo.
And look at shadow's and mhig's battle. Mhig lost by a considerable amount. To say that shadow's combo was that many times more difficult, creative, and smoother than mhig is just silly. (No offense shadow, but I know you can do better than that)
@baimai
I believe you. :] -
Date: Sat, May 16 2009 03:05:09
lol none taken, i really dont think i should've won in the first place
and no one answered my comment earlier, i dont see why the autowins shouldn't be judged -
Date: Sat, May 16 2009 03:16:36QUOTE (BaiMai @ May 15 2009, 09:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>@ charlie
im not angry u at all that u said i was editing my vdo. i just wanna say i didnt do anything with the vdo, i know its pretty hard to believe.
imo the result is acceptable and congratulation with sadistic u should have won^^
but u said that mistake was on purpose
i know it's not a drop, but i did release the pen from my hand too quickly. after watching the video, i can understand if the judges consider this as a mistake. -
Date: Sat, May 16 2009 15:00:16
ok well the other thing is look at how the judges broke down the score
67,73,71,80,65
68,66,71,79,52
we take out the low and high
67,73,71
68,66,71
so that means 1 tie, 1 better, 1 worst
so in reality the result is a tie, since a 1 point differential for one judge might be as important as a 6 poitn differential for the other judge, since nobody ever set any standard as to how much 1 point really means
if we dont take out the low and high, you lost 3-1 though, dunno -
Date: Sat, May 16 2009 16:25:18
I still don't understand why the judging system in the wiki still isn't used.
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Date: Tue, May 19 2009 13:34:53
sooooo.....anyone from encore there?
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Date: Tue, May 19 2009 14:21:42
5 more days till deadline, start filming people don't be lazy.
I don't want the same thing as last round... -
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 04:44:12
i'm here to complain about direct downloads again
what problems were had exactly?
i had someone else upload my video, it's still choppy -
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 08:48:26QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ May 20 2009, 07:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i'm here to complain about direct downloads again
what problems were had exactly?
i had someone else upload my video, it's still choppy
Problems:
1. Some sites limit the amount of people that can download the specific video (this happened in round 1)
2. It's easier for the judges to see the videos on sites without having to download them for convenient issues. -
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 09:09:00
1) I don't think that justifies disallowing direct downloads. If that were the problem, it would suffice to say, "No hosting on sites with download quotas," or "Any inaccessible videos will be disqualified." I'm not going to use a site with limited downloads (and I still fail to see why anyone would), so how can this be an issue? Why should I be punished because some other spinners have poor taste in cloud storage?
2) Seriously, this is a large organized tournament with official judging. I don't think it's too much to ask the judges to wait the amount of time it would take a youtube video to buffer in order to see a full quality video and be better able to provide fair judging. That's really not a problem, it's just laziness on part of the judges. I assume the judges accepted the role of judge, which would generally require the willingness to watch the videos they are to judge.
I don't like to sound arrogant and stubborn, but I feel that I am at a disadvantage using streaming sites, and I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to simply have a direct download link. -
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 15:08:02QUOTE (mhig @ May 14 2009, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>@Charlie: thanks~ i really liked your combo too~ i don't see how you lost either..
but yea.. for me whats most appealing is the old style korean combos.. back in the day with world tournament 2007, cloud traveler, vision, uriel, nagi, nanna, kth, chuchon all those guys.. i'm sorta trying to follow their steps.. idk but they just perfect all their combos..
idk what everyone's sense of perfect is but i'd say something about it is influenced by the world tournament.. they expect that difficulty and such creativity seen in the world tournament. but yea.. it's the 'new standard' for some people i guess.. gotta move on eh?
dude i love the old korean style, but it seems alot of ppl dont appreciate actual good smooth spinning and just love the eye candy ending tricks(busts, spreads, fl ta, and so on)... so w/e -
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 15:33:56
how about using vimeo or dailymotion, they are better quality, and whats wrong with the UPSB video stream, I think it's OK
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Date: Wed, May 20 2009 16:17:12
How about this...? Send the judges the download link version, but just use the streaming version for the public when releasing the videos and putting them in the first post.
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Date: Wed, May 20 2009 16:46:12
Shadow, the only thing is its in convienient to have to download everyone's video and then watch them all. I'd rather not spend hours total time spent on watching the videos if I can avoid it.
Try uploading to other sites as Zombo suggested, and submit the stream link as well as a direct download link. That way if judged feel the streaming video was choppy or lagged, they can have the additional option to download the higher quality version.
It is easier now for us to spend the time downloading and watchign the videos because the number of videos are less, but it'd be helpful to link us a stream as well
-
Date: Wed, May 20 2009 22:43:45
alright well i'll just send both
yeah i was going to try other sites today
upsb doesn't lag like youtube but it has a lower frame rate, i noticed -
Date: Sun, May 24 2009 07:51:04
Due date is today!
Please send in your vids -
Date: Sun, May 24 2009 08:52:28
go veagence
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Date: Mon, May 25 2009 20:16:36
lolz...i injured my wrist yesterday so i had to submit an old video....hope thumbskiller didn't submit......
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Date: Tue, May 26 2009 08:09:29
@charlie,
why are u crying like a baby...
This just really sucks!
Just accept the results and shut the ****** up! Its getting really annoying after reading every of your comments.
I gave my video yesterday evening@ 00:00 i think
could have done better but well... just forgott the tournament because of round 1 was pretty low... thought it would not goiing on after that round...
doesn matter... good luck to everyone and enjoy the tournament
greetz
Jopi -
Date: Tue, May 26 2009 08:22:59QUOTE (jopi @ May 26 2009, 01:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>@charlie,
why are u crying like a baby...
This just really sucks!
Just accept the results and shut the ****** up! Its getting really annoying after reading every of your comments.
I gave my video yesterday evening@ 00:00 i think
could have done better but well... just forgott the tournament because of round 1 was pretty low... thought it would not goiing on after that round...
doesn matter... good luck to everyone and enjoy the tournament
greetz
Jopi
What? There's something wrong with being upset? Is it wrong to voice my concerns? I'm upset I've lost every battle I've been in. I'm sorry I'm not an emotionless bastard like you are. I'm sorry for being human.
Frankly, you can go screw yourself. -
Date: Tue, May 26 2009 08:26:24
Saying the judges suck is basically saying they're wrong for having a different opinion than you. Your video was not as good as TheKOoK's, point made. I'm very sorry you lost, but I agree with the results. Maybe you're just not as good as you want to believe you are.
Because really, you say you can do a lot. But I never see it. I never see the spinning you say you usually achieve without any problems, because the tricks are 'so easy'. *sighs* You're a good spinner, really. But saying judges 'just suck' and stuff like that won't fix anything. -
Date: Tue, May 26 2009 08:29:33QUOTE (Erirornal Kraione @ May 26 2009, 12:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Saying the judges suck is basically saying they're wrong for having a different opinion than you. Your video was not as good as TheKOoK's, point made. I'm very sorry you lost, but I agree with the results.
Saying they suck was me being overly blunt. But I do have my points where the judging is apparently flawed. Neither has anyone shed any light on the obscure judging here and there.QUOTE (Erirornal Kraione @ May 26 2009, 12:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Maybe you're just not as good as you want to believe you are.
Neither are you. Does that make you upset? -
Date: Tue, May 26 2009 08:40:43QUOTE (Charlie @ May 26 2009, 10:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Saying they suck was me being overly blunt. But I do have my points where the judging is apparently flawed. Neither has anyone shed any light on the obscure judging here and there.
Oh, name your points and I'll try to 'shed some light' on the judging. I won't hide it, I am a judge. And I agree, there are certain flaws. I think only the votes should count. I think the same thing should have happened in the WT, to be honest.QUOTENeither are you. Does that make you upset?
Nope. I didn't go on a tirade when I lost to Supawit, now did I? I said I wasn't too pleased with the point differential, but I accepted it, and actually congratulated him after the results came out. -
Date: Tue, May 26 2009 08:53:01
Hi,
we apologize for the delay. Due to technical difficulties we spontaniously had to change the lineup to send in videos though (which is what I think the better way for the ones we are battleing and made a combo anyway). Big thanks to TheWave for considering that. In addition another reason is the change of the charge in our team for this tournament.
Next time we'll keep the lineup for sure.
For the ones who are bored and accidentally interested in our combos:
Jopi vs. Shadowserpant (HoT): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWIYfjx3IqE...=response_watch
Neophine vs. AwonW (UP): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz74Rgve-sI
Steffen + Kazeem vs. Zweebna + Chobi (ZtH): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcfao2o9M5E -
Date: Tue, May 26 2009 11:10:25
People have problem with the judging, I see this. However, I do not believe that this calls for personal attacks on each other. Will bashing another person really help to acheive your goal? Or will it help you seem worse to the person you are trying to come across too, and make them less likely to actually help you? I know people may be a little sore if they lose something they think they should win, if anything, this should just encourage you to do even better next round. A little bit of friendly revenge. Sorry, but this message had to be said, I've seen this issue develop over the past couple days. If you want to completely ignore me, fine, I don't care, but I'm trying to tell you something I think could help. Anyways, good luck to everyone in round 2 <:
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Date: Tue, May 26 2009 13:14:56
Videos will be up shortly.
I'm sorry for the delay but I had a math final yesterday and helped people with Physics today.
As I said- I hope by today this evening I'll post them, got to figure out some things first and then I will post the vids. -
Date: Tue, May 26 2009 15:15:30QUOTE (Erirornal Kraione @ May 26 2009, 03:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Oh, name your points and I'll try to 'shed some light' on the judging. I won't hide it, I am a judge.
Wow.... this goes straight right at anti-judges people face
So how about AyySoLo ? I'm still curious why he lost -
Date: Tue, May 26 2009 16:05:59
16/24 have submitted their videos
Group B has only 1 full battle.
Now... I gave you more time, I gave you a fair announcement when the deadline will be, you all replied positively.
THEN WHY DOES THIS THING HAPPEN ONCE AGAIN? -
Date: Tue, May 26 2009 17:34:36
I know for us we couldn't get our tag in due to the spinners just not wanting to make a vid =\
I don't people are taking this seroiusily enough ;] -
Date: Tue, May 26 2009 17:46:26QUOTE (Thewave @ May 26 2009, 08:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>16/24 have submitted their videos
Group B has only 1 full battle.
Now... I gave you more time, I gave you a fair announcement when the deadline will be, you all replied positively.
THEN WHY DOES THIS THING HAPPEN ONCE AGAIN?
Ouch. Who was it this time? Seems like we need a backup plan when things like this happen. All I can think of is auto-elim and rearranging the roster for those who haven't sent in any vids at all.QUOTEPeople have problem with the judging, I see this. However, I do not believe that this calls for personal attacks on each other. Will bashing another person really help to acheive your goal? Or will it help you seem worse to the person you are trying to come across too, and make them less likely to actually help you? I know people may be a little sore if they lose something they think they should win, if anything, this should just encourage you to do even better next round. A little bit of friendly revenge. Sorry, but this message had to be said, I've seen this issue develop over the past couple days. If you want to completely ignore me, fine, I don't care, but I'm trying to tell you something I think could help. Anyways, good luck to everyone in round 2 <:
You have a point. And really, I don't get mad easily. For all of my time at upsb, I don't remember flaming anyone (well, maybe one or two...). But this was just one of the few things that got at me. No, not the judging (not really), or the attack on my person, but just once again, not being good enough. It's just one of the few things that gets at me and always has.
Anyway, I suppose my outburst was unnecessary -- so I'll apologize for that. Aside from that, I'm curious to why ayysolo lost too and why mhig lost (4 to 1). I was also confused to why baimai lost, but now that I relooked at his scores, if thewave hadn't averaged out only the three scores, he would have won. -
Date: Tue, May 26 2009 17:54:19
mhig is lacking smoothness and appeal compared to shadowserpant (big mistake in the finish IMO)
baimai vs sadistic i dunno, close battle 1 point only
ayysolo i have no idea seems to be he should win just becuse of dificulty -
Date: Tue, May 26 2009 18:00:28QUOTE (Zombo @ May 26 2009, 10:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>mhig is lacking smoothness and appeal compared to shadowserpant (big mistake in the finish IMO)
baimai vs sadistic i dunno, close battle 1 point only
ayysolo i have no idea seems to be he should win just becuse of dificulty
I was thinking that was where mhig would lose since you can't tell how smooth he is from his choppy fps. And baimai actually wins by a considerable portion if all the scores were averaged out -- it's too bad only 3 were averaged out for him. The only reason I can see ayysolo losing is the drop ending.
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Date: Tue, May 26 2009 20:19:20
Charlie,
I think I can understand your position...I know it's very frustrating when you're not given reason or explanations, specially on something that doesn't agree with your views.
However, try to see thing from the judges point of view. If we reveal our identities and offer explanation on our scores for one battle, then everyone else will want details on their scores. Just think about the amount of work it would be for each judge to first judge 20+ videos, then to have to explain 20 * 4 score points for each person. I'm sure you see where I'm going with this, right
I agree that it seems there could be some flaws in the jugding system, but what system is perfect? I know that I, for one, have tried my best to judge the scores as objectively as possible. And I'm sure the other people who took the job aren't judging the videos lightly either.
To address your concerns:
Your battle vs TheKOok - imo, your scores for each category were pretty close to his. However, he scored higher on most of them, and there was not one category that you surpassed him by a large margin in order to make up the difference. So the overall result was in favor...sorry
Mhig vs Shadowserpant - this was a very close one...only 3 pts difference imo. Mhig seemed more creative, but Shadowserpant's smothness is just insane. I think his smoothness scored higher than anyone else in that round...haha.
Ayysolo vs Pencell - this one I didn't agree with the results. In my view...he had a much higher score in most categories except smoothness. No offense to pencell, but his combo didn't seem particularly difficult or creative. I guess most judges took his last drop as a mistake, but I saw that as intentional and gave him creativity pts for that. Unfortunately, my scores were dropped, so it doesn't matter how I saw this :/
Honestly, I don't think any scores should have been dropped. I can understand that to be a good practice if you have like 10 or more judges, but with only 5, dropping 2 makes a huge difference. On the other hand, I could see how one judge having a big difference in opinion could influence the end result.
My suggestion would be to keep all scores and, if at the end of the average the scores are within 5 pts difference, I would say it's too close of a call, and have the judges rescore that particular battle.
A few things I would like to say to all participants:
1. Keep in mind that the judges are all volunteers. We try our best to judge the battles as objectively as we can. However, we are human, and there is the chance we'll make mistakes. That's why we don't have one person judging. Our hope is that by averaging our scores, any mistakes one judge may have made will be insignificant in the end result.
2. Remember that each judge has their own view on things. While I may have a stricter standard on creativity, others may be more loose when judging that. Either way, as long as we are consistent in our criteria to judge each video, it shouldn't be an issue in the end. Also keep in mind that we have a varied panel of judges to balance things out.
3. The judges have no reason to intentionally make mistakes when judging. We get no benefit in doing so. And did I mention we're humans? Saying we're wrong or calling us names is just not nice. We're working hard (harder than some of the participants that don't even bother to submit videos, it seems) and hearing all these accusations that we're doing a terrible job is not very encouraging :/
4. MOST IMPORTANTLY: If you lost and didn't think you should have lost, you have two options: you can blame it on the bad judging system, or you can work hard so that next time the gap between you and your opponent is so big that no matter how skewed the judging system may be, they still can't deny you a win. I mean, personally, if I didn't win a battle by a huge margin, I wouldn't be totally happy, because there's always the doubt that you only won because of luck or a mistake on some judge's part. It's always better to win by so much that nobody can question your win -
Date: Tue, May 26 2009 21:50:22
i don't see what this blaming judge thing is about, i lost last round, then i just got to take it more seriously this round and beat the crap out of my opponent.
just complaining about the scrore won't make the judges regret about their judgement.
and btw, The Wave, there is only one complete battle in R2? did Pencell submit? cuz i really want to revenge, can't believe i lost such an easy battle in R1.(no offence to pencell) -
Date: Tue, May 26 2009 22:34:17QUOTE (AyySoLo @ May 26 2009, 05:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i don't see what this blaming judge thing is about, i lost last round, then i just got to take it more seriously this round and beat the crap out of my opponent.
just complaining about the scrore won't make the judges regret about their judgement.
and btw, The Wave, there is only one complete battle in R2? did Pencell submit? cuz i really want to revenge, can't believe i lost such an easy battle in R1.(no offence to pencell)
Yes, Pencell did indeed submit his video, your's was the only complete battle in round 2. The official thread for round 2 videos are here:
http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=20782&hl=
good luck to everyone in round 2 -
Date: Tue, May 26 2009 22:39:42QUOTE (AyySoLo @ May 26 2009, 05:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i don't see what this blaming judge thing is about, i lost last round, then i just got to take it more seriously this round and beat the crap out of my opponent.
just complaining about the scrore won't make the judges regret about their judgement.
and btw, The Wave, there is only one complete battle in R2? did Pencell submit? cuz i really want to revenge, can't believe i lost such an easy battle in R1.(no offence to pencell)
Lol no offense taken. that vid sucked . i made it in like 5 minutes. -
Date: Tue, May 26 2009 23:20:02
Points taken, Kam. Glad you try to understand rather than attack me for understanding differently. I'll take your points into account next time around.
Just realized that this argument has probably been the most exciting part of the TT (for me anyway). But this TT is a first for upsb and there's definitely time for improvement for any others.QUOTE (Erirornal Kraione @ May 26 2009, 01:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Nope. I didn't go on a tirade when I lost to Supawit, now did I? I said I wasn't too pleased with the point differential, but I accepted it, and actually congratulated him after the results came out.
How nice of you. -
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 00:47:23QUOTE (Zombo @ May 26 2009, 10:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>mhig is lacking smoothness and appeal compared to shadowserpant (big mistake in the finish IMO)
whose finish? i dont see anything... -
Date: Wed, May 27 2009 00:52:56
I believe he was referring to mhig's small execution mistake on his final bust.