UPSB v3
Serious Discussion / Ethics case study - Helping classmates
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Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 01:20:55
Suppose you're an above average student, and you need really good grades to enter the University program of your choice. It's very possible that you won't be accepted in your top choice, but you're going to study very hard to get there.
Now suppose that the grades are assigned by how well you do compared to the class average: i.e. if you do really well on the tests compared to the rest of the class you get A.
Suppose that you're really good at studying alone, and group study doesn't help you at all, or the benefits of group studying is very small to you compared to the others in the group.
If you help your classmates, you know this is going to raise the class average and bring down your grade.
If you don't help them, then it doesn't have an effect on your grade.
If you trick them and give them false info, it might lower the average.
What do you do? -
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 01:41:58
I would only help my closest friends, assuming a few of them are in that class. I am not going to spend my time helping others when they have various other resources they can use, and it may harm me in the future. My friends are different though cause I would expect them to help me if I needed it. I wouldn't trick others though since that is a dick thing to do.
I am assuming helping them would take a noticeable amount of time, if someone asked me a question that I could answer in less than a few seconds I would answer it correctly.
I suppose I would just be interested in doing the best I can do and not worry about manipulating the class average. -
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 04:44:55QUOTE (Awesome @ Nov 20 2009, 09:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I suppose I would just be interested in doing the best I can do and not worry about manipulating the class average.
qft
do the best you can
i found myself in almost the same position
one of the top students in my subject, studying for the exam in a group wouldn't have helped me much
but, its a chance to just re-cap some of the more fundumental content, and later, on your own, you can go over the more harder stuff
i mean, you're not going to study the whole time with them right?
as awesome said, misleading people makes you a dick, if someone asks you a quick question, just answer it truthfully
everyone has the right to achieve their best
i could bring karma into this, but my main point is good enough i think
help others=can recap fundumentals, later=cover higher level stuff
and the equations recap at the bottom of you post zombo is assuming you get the same score, a borderline A i'm guessing
just do your best to get a high score, dont worry about the class average
... that ended almost exactly like awesome's post. -
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 19:14:39
well another way to look at it is you know you're gonna get A cuz you're good, but the admission commitee also looks at the class average,
if the average is like B+, then your A is not worth much, but if class average is like C-, then it's worth a lot
so if you help others, maybe you can raise the class average by half a letter
if you don't help anybody, it stays the same
if you trick them, maybe you can drop the class average by half a letter.
in this kind of hypothetical situation, what do you do
there was related issue at my school. we used to have numeric grades in high school, but they were considering switiching to letters. ppl who scored 95+ all the time filed a complaint because their A would look the same as somebody who got like 90.
also personally I once got A in a class where my grade was like 102% (bonus points) and you need 85+ to get A and theres no A+. my friend got 82% and for some reason the teacher felt generous and rounded his grade up to A, it kinda pissed me off. -
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 19:43:15
Assuming in this hypothetical situation that I didn't have any friends in this class I wouldn't help anyone, and I wouldn't trick them. Tricking them is mean. You might want a low class average but others in the class might need a high grade for similar reasons you do, screwing them over so they can't get it is wrong to me . I also don't feel any obligation to help them when they have so many other resources to help them e.g. textbooks, internet, other people etc.
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Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 23:23:08
I'd probably do the same as Awesome- help my closest friends if they want (and are in the class). I won't give any false information, that's something horrible to do in my opinion, even if it gets you to your goal.
I also came across related issues in my life- I'm quite good at history (you could even say one of the best at class), and usually a few hours of going over the material is enough for me in order to be ready for a test. One of my friends, isn't that good in history, so I study with him (not all the time), even though I know it'll drag the studying time much longer, and less efficient. If it's easy for me, why shouldn't I help my friend?
Oh, and in my school we're using the numeric system- using letters sounds like it could be annoying. -
Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 00:19:16
lol i mislead people because its fun
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Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 04:21:33QUOTE (spinneraddiction @ Nov 21 2009, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>lol i mislead people because its fun
you my friend, is what we call, "a dick"
and in response to the updated hypothetical, i'll still help my closest friends, if they choose to ask for help, as they too deserve to succeed
i'm not saying go out of your way to find help for them, just if they ask, spend some time helping them -
Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 07:39:29
A somewhat related story:
In maths this year you have to have an average of 80% or over to get an A. The maths teachers decided that for some people that were getting really close to 80% (75% - 79%) they would also get A's. Now this is not a problem with me, I couldn't really care less (I'm getting an ACTUAL A btw) except for the fact that they have decided to choose the people from 75%-79% that get A's based on their attitude and how much work they do. I don't mind them moving the required average down, but I am incredibly pissed that it isn't a fair system for everyone, and someone getting 79% may not get an A because they do little work, when someone getting 78% might get an A because they do heaps.
If anyone feels this is unrelated, mods feel free to delete this post. I figured that it fit after Zombo's story and I'd rather not start an entire new topic for it.
Btw, I voted for helping closest friends. You've always got to help your mates. -
Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 07:48:13
there are a lot of talks about cutthroat competition in academics, especially once you're at university (like law students)
some people will mislead others like what I wrote, but even sabotage others experiments or check out all the study books from the library before the exam (and rip out the important pages) and stuff like that. there's also book hiding, where you put important books in the wrong locations in the library so nobody can find it.
at my university there isnt a whole lot of competition like that. in my field at least. -
Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 08:21:43
I think its kind of sad that these things would happen
I mean not helping out focusing on own benefits is fine, but bringing down others by those means seems unethical
my university is suppose to be so to speak "cut throat" but I haven't seen anything like that happen
of course its still my first year and I'm an undergrad -
Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 15:39:12
sometimes its the fault of the teacher or university
if the teacher said "top 10 students get A, everybody else will have B or lower" and theres like 60 students in the class
then maybe you'll try to screw others -
Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 16:04:58QUOTE (Zombo @ Nov 21 2009, 04:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>sometimes its the fault of the teacher or university
if the teacher said "top 10 students get A, everybody else will have B or lower" and theres like 60 students in the class
then maybe you'll try to screw others
No, I would think the teacher is an idiot, try my best, but not give any false info to anyone, even those I might not like or hate -
Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 16:44:29
Personally, I'd help them.
To give them false info so i can lower the class average would to be a fucking asshole
To not help them.. well.. only if I see that they don't need help, or if they don't ask me.
If i were to study with friends and they were to ask me, i'd help them.
And they say you learn stuff by teaching others too. For me, the learning comes when they ask me something i don't know and i look it up for them. Otherwise, it's more of confirming my information rather than learning new stuff.