UPSB v3

General Discussion / Ways to Cheat?

  1. Mats
    Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 18:09:05

    Now we all know there are various ways to fake and edit videos and I'm not talking about this.

    Are there any ways to cheat in pen spinning? For example, but putting some kind of oils on the pen you can get more spins on spin tricks or more grip? Maybe your pen could be modified in some unusual way to benefit yourself? I think most people are fine with weight, length and balanced being changed and grips being added and I doubt anyone would complain if they lost a battle to someone who had modified this factors as long as it was not excessive (35cm pen for example). But are there other things that people could do, to cheat? To gain an advantage?

  2. 000zero0000
    Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 18:45:58

    I don't think so, the oil on pens you mentioned would be more of an disadvantage rather than an advantage, if you were doing nothing but say a palmspin, sure. But when you are going to do a combo its not so good.

    Then again, someone could cheat if we had a "Who can get the most palmspin rotations" or something.

    Also a comment on the modifying pen (via weight, length etc) Don't people complain if their opponent is using a KT or Buster CYL and they themselves are using a Metallic comssa? (im not sure if people still complain about this but...)

    For eg: people who refuse to call the Buster CYL a pen, and just call it a "Stick"

    could that be "cheating?"

  3. Gildor
    Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 19:15:48

    There is one simple method to cheat - adding weight to light mods, such as f3000, double capped comssa, or rushon. And I'm not talking about simply just adding tips on caps - I'm talking about putting plasticine, screws or sth like that into caps to highly manage it's weight. It's not visible on film, so we can say that we can do 20 busts on f3000 in a combo. Noone will find out, that this is 'cheated' mod.

  4. ION
    Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 19:29:05

    Say you set rules for a battle like you can only spin a DC Comssa, you can cheat by breaking the rules for that battle by hiding tips pr something. Also if you spin with wet hands the pen sticks to you hand more so i guess that could be considered cheating.

  5. Glamouraz
    Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 20:21:31

    I don't think the focus here is whether oil will help with your spinning or not since that's just an example but whether there are actually ways to cheat using ps so can we just stop posting about that?

    I think gildor has a very good example of how we could cheat with PS.

    And get "Fake" fame with it too. Like.. whoa this guy can do cont fl ta x 20 with a pencil but they don't know the pencil has been rigged with weights and whatnot and made it such that it still looks like a normal wooden pencil meaning he didn't really do cont fl ta with a pencil but with something like a KT that looks like a pencil.

    I guess the only way to find out will be to check the mod or his fingers etc to see if he's cheating since asking the person himself will be no use since he'll just lie.

    Or maybe add a scale or do some tests to show that his mod has no stray modifications from what it's supposed to be. Example: Show that his pencil is really a pencil and not modded to be like a bustercyl or something.

    I guess it doesn't really apply to mods unless they're outrageously designed. I mean, even the bustercyl is allowed for competitions and since tournament spinners use mods that they're most comfortable with, having rules to determine what kind of mods are cheat and what isn't is not really fair to all the spinners unless the competition has a mod based theme.

  6. Gildor
    Date: Sun, Nov 22 2009 13:26:35

    Well, until penspinning is rather online sport (you know what I mean ;p) cheating will be possible. If we were able to organise some official tournament with real judges and all the stuff we would be then able to disable cheating (: But it's in the future ;p

    Now there is no method which can be fully able to find out, that some guy is cheating.

  7. Mats
    Date: Mon, Nov 23 2009 13:07:59

    Could we not analyse the video of the pen and work out how much it actually weighs? Maybe we couldn't?

  8. Glamouraz
    Date: Mon, Nov 23 2009 17:57:37

    Maybe. i'm not sure.

    You'd have to take into account his spinning speed and his hand strength just to calculate the weight of his mod and I don't think his hand's strength can be easily obtained via video analysis.

  9. Zombo
    Date: Mon, Nov 23 2009 18:08:08

    its always possible to cheat what mod you're using

    thats why making mod restrictions in online tournaments is difficult.

  10. Glamouraz
    Date: Mon, Nov 23 2009 18:11:34

    Does a guy using an 3000f get an advantage in an online battle against another guy using a dr kt if they both do the same combo? Assuming they didn't cheat.

  11. Prince
    Date: Mon, Nov 23 2009 18:16:13

    Yeh cause it would be harder for 3000 f guy

  12. tkj399
    Date: Mon, Nov 23 2009 18:17:39

    Do you mean in terms of judging or how easy it is?

    In terms of judging, while I'm sure that doing a combo with a F3000 is harder for most people than doing a combo with a KT, I think that the judging should still remain unbiased in terms of mods used, as that is the spinners own choice.

  13. Prince
    Date: Mon, Nov 23 2009 18:22:31

    Umm that german gathering (galileo) said that they get more points the harder the mod to use. Minwoo used a pencil and got gd points even for simple combo.

    So it does affect it.

  14. Glamouraz
    Date: Mon, Nov 23 2009 18:33:55

    Then I see a place where people can cheat.

    Just make a David Weis pencil mod and then add weights secretly and they wouldn't know.

    Also, from the PMWT, if the theme is light mods, the person with that magnet mod can cheat by adding weight to his pen too because the magnets are hard to see when spinning and can then secretly cup the weights in his hands and remove them if he needs to place the mod on a weighing scale.

  15. Awesome
    Date: Mon, Nov 23 2009 19:43:07

    I don't see why a spinner should be at a disadvantage in terms of judging for using a heavy mod, its not like runners get bonus points for running in high heels because its harder for them.

    Its up to a spinner to get and use the best equipment possible, if a spinner chooses not too then that's their problem.

    Making a light mod heavier is only cheating if you take into consideration of the mod. Just because something gives an advantage doesn't mean its cheating, I don't even see how someone can cheat by modifying their pen, applying oil to a pen is changing its texture so its better suited to certain tricks, like making a RSVP into a MX makes it better for spinning.

  16. Glamouraz
    Date: Mon, Nov 23 2009 19:50:04

    Then I guess it depends on the rules at the mod.

    Other than that, cheating in real life like using a cheat pen so you can spin better than other people.. I don't think that's much of cheating. It's why we mod in the first place.

  17. Tushix
    Date: Mon, Nov 23 2009 19:59:38

    Usually you can tell the difference by the way the pen spins (like from watching the vid).

  18. spinneraddiction
    Date: Mon, Nov 23 2009 20:09:38

    i dont think you could cheat in way that will benefit your self with out a draw back. for example a 32cm pen would be long and have more spinning room. but is so long that it will just keep hittting your arm. if you oiled it is would probley hqve higher spins but you would drop the pen more because its slippery. adding more grips would cause it to have to grip and the pen would get stuck.

  19. Glamouraz
    Date: Mon, Nov 23 2009 20:18:18

    QUOTE (Tushix @ Nov 24 2009, 03:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Usually you can tell the difference by the way the pen spins (like from watching the vid).


    Yea you mean like how a cheat 3000F will spin faster than a normal 3000F and how the spinner can execute harder tricks with it?

    Unless it's too exaggerated, I think they'll just pass it off as the spinner's skill as an excuse.

  20. Mats
    Date: Wed, Nov 25 2009 14:16:56

    QUOTE (Awesome @ Nov 23 2009, 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    I don't see why a spinner should be at a disadvantage in terms of judging for using a heavy mod, its not like runners get bonus points for running in high heels because its harder for them.


    I don't really think that's a good equivalent. Perhaps the equal for sprinting is use of steroids?

  21. Glamouraz
    Date: Wed, Nov 25 2009 16:36:46

    i thought that was a very good analogy.

    I mean, not all runners have to take steriods like how all spinners must spin something right?

    All runners need shoes, just like how all spinners need pens, or sticks.

    A person running with heels doesn't get awarded because they ran with high heels against a person wearing proper running shoes.

    Just like how in the WT, people don't get awarded more points for using 3000F against a person using an MX or Dr. KT, do they?