UPSB v3
Fundamental Tricks / Sonic Reverse Thread
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Date: Sun, Jul 1 2007 02:23:00
Use this thread to discuss the sonic reverse (note that sonic normal has a seperate thread. I didn't feel a harmonic thread was necessary, but feel free to make one if needed).
Basically it is a reverse of the sonic normal motion. The difficulty in learning this trick is usually that you can not use the thumb-flap as you can in a sonic normal. However the trick is actually easier, once learned as gravity helps you rather than fighting you in this trick. If you are having trouble try learning charge reverse 12, to help with the motion.
Links:
UCPSB V2 Thread
Video Tutorial by Eso
TurtleSpin Article -
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 07:44:09QUOTE (Eburt @ Jul 1 2007, 04:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The difficulty in learning this trick is usually that you can not use the thumb-flap as you can in a sonic normal.
Actually, you kinda can.
When I was learning this trick I came up with something like a reverse thumb-flap.
What you do is simply trying to make your thumb point up from your palm, and in that way create a "flap".
Hmm, better embed a picture:
Hmm, that pic got quite bad, but I think you'll get the point. You just do that and create a pressure downwards and then simply move your middle finger towards the palm -
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 07:55:21QUOTE (YourClone @ Sep 8 2007, 08:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Eso's tutorial hasn't loaded for me on each of 4 computers... >.>
SO yeah, I'm still at a complete loss on this trick. Can't. do. it!
I learned like how I learned reg. Swing it forward and get used to the motion. -
Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 18:23:35
Another option which helped me alot while learning sonic rev is to try and cut the pen using 1 och 3 like a scissor.
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Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 18:43:24
I can pull off a slow one now after working on Charge Reverse for a few days. I'm just going to work on Charge Rev and get it up to speed.
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Date: Sun, Sep 9 2007 23:33:27
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8oPUemgS0M
I re-uploaded it. -
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 21:46:40
Yeah there is a technique where you use the thumb and it is discussed here http://www.pentrix.com/pentix/tricks/Sonic123Reverse.html
its very odd but it helps you understand how the pen is moving -
Date: Tue, Sep 11 2007 08:58:24QUOTE (Hikari @ Sep 11 2007, 05:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yeah there is a technique where you use the thumb and it is discussed here http://www.pentrix.com/pentix/tricks/Sonic123Reverse.html
its very odd but it helps you understand how the pen is moving
I can't do it using the thumb, I never could i just learnt it without. You can't really use the thumb to build up pressure very well. It was easier for me to do it without the thumb. -
Date: Tue, Sep 11 2007 14:27:37
It's hard to use the thumbflap to build pressure because the surface area of the thumbflap lies on the top side of the hand. On the other side is just palm, and it's hard to get any kind of grip on the pen. This is why I used the see-saw method, because I tried to use the thumbflap and it just didn't work out for me.
Besides, if you are forced to use the abandon the pressure building method, you're better off. -
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 02:44:34
I got this trick in about 3 tries because charge 12 rev was my first trick.. That would be very helpful to learn charge 12 rev before attempting the rev sonic i think..
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Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 11:20:50QUOTE (Chungy @ Sep 17 2007, 04:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I got this trick in about 3 tries because charge 12 rev was my first trick.. That would be very helpful to learn charge 12 rev before attempting the rev sonic i think..
Yeah, it helps alot to know charge rev 12 and 23 while practicing this trick. Even if you know how to do sonic rev it's still usefull to learn the charge rev because it makes your sonics smoother which looks much better when you're recording combos later
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Date: Tue, Sep 18 2007 04:05:18
I have a bit of a problem with my sonic reverses, and maybe someone can suggest a way for me to practice to eliminate this habit.
When I do a sonic reverse 23-34, my ringfinger bends at the second joint much more than it should(Not the joint right below the nail, the one below that). This also occurs with the middlefinger in my sonic reverse 12-23, but not as much as with 23-34. Is there any way I can work on correcting this?
I've mastered the trick, but because of the unnecessary joint bending, the trick is not aesthetically pleasing (at least to me.) -
Date: Tue, Sep 18 2007 04:20:51
Dont worry about it bending too much...instead use it to your advantage and learn reverse sonic clip :D
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Date: Tue, Sep 18 2007 04:45:46
I've got sonic clip down, and am working on reverse clip.
But those won't help be learn a regular old sonic reverse. I want to master a sonic harmonic, but I've already learned the trick "wrong".
How does one go about re-learning a fundamental trick? Advice anyone? -
Date: Tue, Sep 18 2007 09:28:26
Well, I could say, start all over. That may take up time, but its what I do. Try to do it the correct way, then keep doing that, until you lose the old habit. And please explain how you do it "wrong"-ly.
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Date: Tue, Sep 18 2007 15:51:34
You would probably have to go back to the very basics of the trick, going slowly through it using all the "proper" finger motions.
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Date: Wed, Sep 19 2007 00:02:26QUOTE (Huroni Remsin)And please explain how you do it "wrong"-ly.
I thought I already explained that . . . The finger the sonic rev goes around bends way too much. I'm working on it, but it's hard to just start from scratch, there are so many habits to break. -
Date: Wed, Sep 19 2007 03:01:48
Just do it slowly...dont do a sonic fall either. Practice each sonic separately. I kind of had a similar problem with twisted sonic so everyday i'd just practice it slowly and now i've fixed it. Changing ingrained muscle memory takes time.
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Date: Thu, Sep 27 2007 17:16:56
my reverse sonic advice is to let gravity do some of the work while you're learning. hold the pen quite near the end and it will want to fall down the hand. thenthe ring finger can pull the rotation round. once you feel the motion that the trick requires you'll be able to direct the rotation without gravity's help.
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Date: Tue, Oct 16 2007 12:14:41
I've watched Eso's video a few times, but the problem I'm facing, is that it doesn't exactly "spin", its more like I'm just pushing the pen down from 12-23.
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Date: Sat, Oct 20 2007 08:34:29
yea dust kid, I have the same problems, too.
i'll try using heavier pens holding it by the edge.
@ asakawa: do you mean to have the majority of the pen on the "inside" or palm side of the hand?
guess I'll just practice during class for a week or so. =[ -
Date: Sat, Oct 20 2007 09:47:39QUOTE (dust_kid @ Oct 16 2007, 08:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I've watched Eso's video a few times, but the problem I'm facing, is that it doesn't exactly "spin", its more like I'm just pushing the pen down from 12-23.
LOl the thing is you have to make something like a charge rev motion for it to have a circle...I even learned sonic reverse before charge reverse and that was when I already spin you just have to practice the motion 
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Date: Sun, May 25 2008 13:36:09
I learned surprisingly quickly, and despite what many say is not possible, I use pressure from my thumb in both 12-23 and 23-34.
I should probably learn it wihtout the pressure method since I really like the look of sonic harmonic (can alrdy do the rise somehow).
Anyways what I do is have the pen in lets say 12 and just bend my middlefinger before I even start doind anything. Add a little pressure with thumb and release, not much more to it with me. But as I said, I will try to learn my way out of that method some day... -
Date: Sat, May 31 2008 05:20:44
Well if you guys are having problems learning it, what I did was I learned how the pen traveled first, so it basically looked like a messed up pass and I kept doing that. It looked like crap for awhile, but after doing it for a few days I finally got the circular motion and then 23-34 comes really easy after that.
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Date: Thu, Jun 5 2008 21:34:55
Sonic Reverse only worked for me after I learned charge reverse (crappy one, but it helped me do it) since the sonic reverse is just the mirror of a normal sonic.
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Date: Mon, Jun 30 2008 00:43:12
is the sonic reverse similar to tipped sonic? i dunno why but when i watched eso's video i did tipped sonic instead of sonic reverse
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Date: Mon, Jun 30 2008 00:49:00
Tipped sonic used the Thumb and sonic reverse just uses fingers 1 2 and 3. So no its not really similiar at
all two different tricks. -
Date: Mon, Jun 30 2008 11:26:14
I have learned the Sonic rev... The vid's helped me only a little and then I figured out the rest, now I can do Sonic rev with the circular motion, but I have a problem, too. If I try keeping making sonic normal and sonic rev, then my grip is going towards the pen/pencil point. My grip is only moving when I do the sonic rev. Is that only me or do you have the same problem??? If it's me then please tell me what could I do to disolve the problem.
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Date: Mon, Jun 30 2008 23:24:40
whenever i try and do this trick, i end up doing a charge in 12, and then just bending my middle finder so it drops... any help?
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Date: Wed, Jul 16 2008 08:01:26
is mastering charge rev will make this trick easier?
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Date: Wed, Jul 16 2008 09:27:28
Definitely. The charge rev gives the trick the circular motion.
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Date: Thu, Jul 17 2008 10:37:20
Yeah, it's best to learn Sonic Rev and Charge Rev simultaniously, that way you won't get a habit (say, you learn Sonic and then while trying Charge you accidentally pull your finger away
at least it's happened to me at the beginning 
) aand you'll have that circular motion on the Sonic (/Rev) AAND you'll be doing it faster, from what I experienced.. 
All in all there's one general rule, which everyone knows
-> 3x 'P' -
Date: Thu, Jul 17 2008 15:46:58
Actually it's kind of easier if you learn the charge reverse 12 first. the circular motion will help in the sonic reverse 12, with or without the thumb flap.
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Date: Fri, Jul 18 2008 05:25:21
I just got this ^^ and being able to do reverse charge helped alot.
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Date: Sat, Sep 13 2008 05:28:43
I can do the sonic rev 12-23 but not 23-34 yet... anyone got any advice for short pinky-ed people?
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Date: Sat, Sep 13 2008 11:11:42
I find it easier to do the sonic harmonic sonic 23-12 > sonic rev 12-23 rather than just the sonic rev 12-23 by itself. Anyone got the same experience? Any tips on how to do it without doing the normal sonic first? I tried doing the charge rev 12 first but it only works sometimes.
Help please? Anyone?
Thanks. -
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 02:01:36
Practice the charge rev until its very natural and easy, the sonic should become very easy to, practice your normal sonic, and observe how it moves, then try to mimic that, oppositley =]
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Date: Tue, Sep 30 2008 20:48:58
After spinning for three months, I can do this trick (Ive never tried before) I just learned it today, one thing is to make sure you have most of the pens weight on the inside, that will make it easier.
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Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 01:18:48
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwoBesUSxww
thats me trying to do the rev sonic i dont get how to bend my middle finger out of the way with out the pen falling any one know hoe to fix that problem? -
Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 01:30:33
Try using the THumb flap method to get more momentum =]
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Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 21:25:56QUOTE (shoeman6 @ Sep 30 2008, 09:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Try using the THumb flap method to get more momentum =]
In rev though how would that work? Put it on top of the flap? -
Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 22:01:06
apply pressure Below the thumb,
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Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 23:07:59
alright ill try that right now thanks =)
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Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 23:17:06
In my opinion, using pressure for a Sonic Reverse is a horrible method of learning it. The position is too awkward. I think your problem is you're not getting the conical spin you need, you're only moving it up and down. You should practice getting the finger motion for a single rotation of a Charge reverse
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Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 23:26:17
Work on your rev charge, its a very useful trick and you do NOT want to end up like me, Is till cant do a rev charge correctly ...
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Date: Mon, Nov 24 2008 22:33:55
I don't know why, but I can't do it. I've learned how to do the reverse charge but I still can't get that initial spin. WHen I try using the thumb flap it feels to awkward and I just end up gripping the pen hard. =[
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Date: Tue, Nov 25 2008 03:55:35QUOTE (PatTheSpinner @ Nov 24 2008, 05:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I don't know why, but I can't do it. I've learned how to do the reverse charge but I still can't get that initial spin. WHen I try using the thumb flap it feels to awkward and I just end up gripping the pen hard. =[
Don't use the thumbflap for sonic reverse
If you can do charge reverse, this shouldn't be too difficult.
You know how the first bit (0.5 rev) of the charge reverse (between index and middle) makes your index finger go behind you middle right?
When it does, bring your index finger and your ring finger together, while keeping you middle finger out of the way like when you do sonic normal.
Hope this makes sense somewhat
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Date: Tue, Nov 25 2008 05:48:26QUOTE (JSH @ Nov 24 2008, 10:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Don't use the thumbflap for sonic reverse
If you can do charge reverse, this shouldn't be too difficult.
You know how the first bit (0.5 rev) of the charge reverse (between index and middle) makes your index finger go behind you middle right?
When it does, bring your index finger and your ring finger together, while keeping you middle finger out of the way like when you do sonic normal.
Hope this makes sense somewhat
Kind of makes sense... I'll try that. Thanks! -
Date: Tue, Nov 25 2008 20:07:28
For everyone who can't do Sonic reverse
This video may help you
Sonic reverse tutorial
It made by me for 8 months ago , language is Thai
It is not necessary to listen Thai language , Just see it ! -
Date: Thu, Dec 11 2008 01:29:48
If you want a really good tutorial video for reverse sonic just look on youtube on eso's profile he has really good tutorials that helped me a lot.
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Date: Sat, Dec 13 2008 04:37:58
I "learned" this in a bit of a funny way. I didn't use the see-saw method or the thumbflap method. I don't know how to do rev charge (yet). I was just messing around, kind of half-attempting, to do this trick. Somehow I ended up doing the following and so far it's worked:
1. Initial position: Backhand part of pen pointed away/outward. COP held close to tips of fingers (first knuckle by fingernails).
2. "Dip" the hand and wrist while bending the middle finger.
3. Catch.
The "dipping" generated the upward/counterclockwise momentum for the palm-side of the pen and rotated it enough to clear the bent middle finger. In a way, I've figured out how to somewhat imitate a reverse charge to cleanly do the rev sonic. It's difficult to do sonic harmonic this way, but it satisfies me for now.
EDIT: I also found that the closer to the tip I hold the pen, the easier it is to rotate it. This seems to be an interesting way to combo into something else...idk what yet. -
Date: Tue, Dec 23 2008 20:44:29
every time i try to do reverse sonic it always does like a pass the opposite way. Any help?
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Date: Tue, Dec 23 2008 20:47:32
i learned sonic rev trying to join 1 and 3 at back of the hand. It makes u hitting 3 stronger with the pen.
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Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 21:59:51
Just a tip: If you're having trouble getting the conical motion make sure you're lifting you're ring finger (if you're doing it palm down) so the pen has somewhere to go near the end of the trick. :3
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Date: Thu, Jan 1 2009 06:45:53QUOTE (Evocrazy @ Dec 13 2008, 12:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I "learned" this in a bit of a funny way. I didn't use the see-saw method or the thumbflap method. I don't know how to do rev charge (yet). I was just messing around, kind of half-attempting, to do this trick. Somehow I ended up doing the following and so far it's worked:
1. Initial position: Backhand part of pen pointed away/outward. COP held close to tips of fingers (first knuckle by fingernails).
2. "Dip" the hand and wrist while bending the middle finger.
3. Catch.
The "dipping" generated the upward/counterclockwise momentum for the palm-side of the pen and rotated it enough to clear the bent middle finger. In a way, I've figured out how to somewhat imitate a reverse charge to cleanly do the rev sonic. It's difficult to do sonic harmonic this way, but it satisfies me for now.
EDIT: I also found that the closer to the tip I hold the pen, the easier it is to rotate it. This seems to be an interesting way to combo into something else...idk what yet.
This is pretty close to what I'm doing, I think. Using a little hand/wrist motion helps with getting the pen to move in a more circular motion, but I'm not sure if it'll be detrimental later on. Hopefully I'll be able to stop using the hand motion and just use fingers eventually. -
Date: Thu, Feb 12 2009 23:48:26
i never used the charge reverse. what i did was the pen was almost kind of horizontal and presed against my 234 fingers with my hand curled it. that way when i opened my hand the pen automatically went down with gravity and i kept my ring finger up and that got the pen in the 13 slot and then i just brought it down? is that still a sonic reverse
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Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 00:24:42QUOTE (mssuxsoup @ Feb 12 2009, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i never used the charge reverse. what i did was the pen was almost kind of horizontal and presed against my 234 fingers with my hand curled it. that way when i opened my hand the pen automatically went down with gravity and i kept my ring finger up and that got the pen in the 13 slot and then i just brought it down? is that still a sonic reverse
I believe so as long as it follows the reverse motion of sonic.
I you don't really need to use the charge motion for the sonic as well.
But you probably want the charge motions at the beginning to make it look circular. -
Date: Sun, Feb 15 2009 05:22:58
Without the circular motion, it's called a tipped sonic, but you can do that until you get the charge reverse motion down.
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Date: Sun, Feb 15 2009 05:49:59
this might be weird advice, but try to do the shadow if youre having trouble with sonic reverse o.o
My first sonic reverse came from trying to do a shadow after giving up on the son-rev + smooth fingerpass o.o
just flick your hand a little and it should move by itself. -
Date: Sat, Feb 21 2009 06:55:49
gah i cant do it itss like a fingerpass not a sonic help?
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Date: Tue, Feb 24 2009 07:46:47
man after liek 2 months i really cant get sonic reverse and charge reverse >.> but then i haven't even tried to learn it
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Date: Sun, Mar 1 2009 09:19:08
I can't do this for some reason I try but I just can't make the motion
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Date: Mon, Mar 2 2009 21:28:52
My sonic reverse does not rotate in a circle but still goes to the left!!!
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Date: Wed, Mar 4 2009 01:45:14
That just means you need more reverse charge motion. Work on it... it's tough :/
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Date: Fri, Mar 13 2009 18:09:14
Hm, is this right? Do I make any big mistakes? (ignore the drops ^^)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94TiCWxG4A4
Thank you -
Date: Fri, Mar 13 2009 18:29:37
its not that hard if you doing it palm down and just make a hand motion to the right (if you are right handed)
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Date: Sat, Mar 28 2009 09:46:13
better learn the pressure method first learning the non pressure can come after u noe hw to use the pressure method
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Date: Sat, Mar 28 2009 11:22:37
Try to use the other hand to guide your movement of the Reverse Sonic. Do it many many times. It will work most probably.
I don't use this method but some other members have found this way useful. -
Date: Mon, Apr 6 2009 22:21:50
Hi all,
Anyone has an advice (or even better, a good vid) on how to do a sonic reverse 23-34?
I got down the 12-23 quite fast even without pressure, but for 23-34 I can't get enough initial force for the pen to do the sonic...
(and I have the same problem with reverse charge 23 as well.gif)
)
Thanks in advance!
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Date: Tue, Apr 7 2009 10:33:58QUOTE (Grafikm @ Apr 7 2009, 06:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi all,
Anyone has an advice (or even better, a good vid) on how to do a sonic reverse 23-34?
I got down the 12-23 quite fast even without pressure, but for 23-34 I can't get enough initial force for the pen to do the sonic...
(and I have the same problem with reverse charge 23 as well )
Thanks in advance!
Attempt Sonic Falls. Use the remaining momemtum from Sonic Rev 12-23 to try doing Sonic Rev 23-34. -
Date: Fri, Apr 10 2009 05:50:11
A handy tip is to try to guide with your other hand;like if you're right-hander, use your left hand to guide the pen between your fingers;simulate the motion a few times, then try doing it with one hand .I tried it and pretty soon I was able to do Sonic rev
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Date: Fri, Apr 10 2009 07:08:16
Thanks for the tips, I finally got it more or less properly, with a small middle finger push.
Also, I got myself a longer pen, and that helps a lot too... -
Date: Mon, Jun 15 2009 21:30:23
I can do a reverse twisted sonic but I can't do a reverse sonic... I just can't seem to get that charge reverse motion down... Any advice?
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Date: Mon, Jun 15 2009 23:49:46QUOTE (Xantu @ Jun 15 2009, 05:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I can do a reverse twisted sonic but I can't do a reverse sonic... I just can't seem to get that charge reverse motion down... Any advice?
Well, for some general tips, try to do the see saw method (Eso's tutorial)
you push it like a see saw, back and forth with your index and middle finger.
But make sure you use your index finger to move it, not your middle, It just stays in place.
Then when you are ready, push your index and ring fingers together and pull in your middle finger, just like a sonic.
It won't look pretty, at first, but as you keep practicing, you will get rid of the see saw method altogether
and have an actual reverse charge motion conical sonic
Hope this helps
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Date: Mon, Nov 2 2009 03:32:28
to be honest, it was easier than the sonic,
my method is palm down, do a normal sonic from 2-3 to 1-2 and right when u finish dont move your hands, your index finger should be slightly curved towards your middle finger and should be ontop of the pen while the middle finger is below the pen, dont hold it to tight and try swinging your wrist, the pen should move a bit, then when u practice it good, drop your middle finger lower and raise your ring finger in the right moment and it should do a sonic reverse, when u practice enough, you can try doing it without palm down
sorry if hard to understand xD -
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 21:41:49
After trying for a long time to learn this (around 3 weeks at school), I've finally gotten down a fairly consistent sonic fall, but I still rely on the see-saw method. I'm pretty sure that it's possible to do a sonic fall without the see-saw, but I'm having trouble. I'd appreciate some advice with this, and if it helps, I'm mainly trying to do a sonic rise/fall/rise/fall/etc.
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Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 21:44:54QUOTE (Jewjo @ Nov 9 2009, 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>After trying for a long time to learn this (around 3 weeks at school), I've finally gotten down a fairly consistent sonic fall, but I still rely on the see-saw method. I'm pretty sure that it's possible to do a sonic fall without the see-saw, but I'm having trouble. I'd appreciate some advice with this, and if it helps, I'm mainly trying to do a sonic rise/fall/rise/fall/etc.
Well practice would be the best honestly xD
you'll get it if you keep trying
Perhaps if you do a sonic, then try to do sonic reverse, it might help
Kind of like doing a TA then a TA Reverse -
Date: Sat, Jun 12 2010 08:10:12
My Rev Sonic isn't exactly the most beautiful, but I can get it constantly from 12 to 23. However, I find the 12-34 much easier than the 12-23
ANyone else got the same "problem"?