UPSB v3
Pen Spinning Relations / [Project][4.14] Monthly tournaments
trying to make tournaments interesting
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Date: Fri, Jan 15 2010 04:33:43
Ok, so the idea of having tournaments isn't new, but somehow it hasn't had it's real breakthrough yet. Tournaments still aren't very popular... Let's look at the factors why spinners lose interest in tournaments:
~> They don't have any motivation to join in the first place...
-> make a prize
~> Tournaments simply take to long, most spinners lose interest while waiting for the results (which usually take more than a week)
-> use a simpler judging system, cap the entry limit, get more, reliable judges
~> "Tournaments/Battles just aren't fun"
-> Add some themes to spice up the tournaments. Ex: Spin while standing, spin a [insert wierd object], <5 second combos etc. Just be creative and come up with something new and interesting
So for the prize issue, there probably won't be anybody willing to sponsor a prize. But as I looked through soccer news I saw that the Premier League is named "Barclays Premier League" (Ok, dont hate because that isn't exactly "new" news but w/e) So my basic idea was this:
~> Ask Penwish to sponsor some prizes
-> in return name the tournament "Penwish's monthly tournament #X"
That way Penwish has a very nice way to advertise and members become more interested in the tournament. Everybody profits. (Except the losers that don't win the tournament
jk )
So what I was thinking is that there will be a cap of 16 people allowed in one tournament. Then there will be KO rounds. Round 1: 8 1v1 matches, Round 2: 4 1v1 matches, round 3: semifinals 2 matches and then the final.
= 4 rounds.
= 4 weeks?
= 1 month per tournament
Making tournaments go by faster should keep up the interest of the people, not to talk about themes.
What do you guys think about this? -
Date: Fri, Jan 15 2010 04:37:02
I like the idea of Penwish giving away some prizes, it'll make more people wanna join plus he gets his name out there. Everything I also like, but one per month seems a little too ambitious, IMO. Maybe once per 2 months? That's just my opinion. =\
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Date: Fri, Jan 15 2010 04:38:19
Cool! I have another kid in this department too
I think that 1 week is really pushing it.
While this totally deviates from "Optimal Tournament whatever shit", I think it'd be fun to have these 1 round deals, where everyone who submits is judged, and the judges pick the best spinner. -
Date: Fri, Jan 15 2010 04:38:36QUOTE (Sankaku @ Jan 14 2010, 09:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I like the idea of Penwish giving away some prizes, it'll make more people wanna join plus he gets his name out there. Everything I also like, but one per month seems a little too ambitious, IMO. Maybe once per 2 months? That's just my opinion. =\
Well one tournament should be over within a month. It should be a steady and fast process, so when the finals of tournament 1 are announced, sign-ups for tournament 2 should already begin.
Of course 1 week is pushing it, but seriously, who actually plans a combo for more than 1 week and starts filming before the day of the deadline? -
Date: Fri, Jan 15 2010 04:40:37
Well, I do, for one.
It just takes a lot of time getting used to new material :/
Lets try hosting a 1 week tournament, shall we? Hands on is always better than discussing in theory. -
Date: Fri, Jan 15 2010 04:43:17QUOTE (hoiboy @ Jan 14 2010, 09:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Well, I do, for one.
It just takes a lot of time getting used to new material :/
Lets try hosting a 1 week tournament, shall we? Hands on is always better than discussing in theory.
what do you mean 1 week?
If you only make 1 clip it's more like a contest, not a tournament -
Date: Fri, Jan 15 2010 04:44:42
I think 1 month is fine, that 1 video a week which isn't that bad if you aren't lazy. It makes you feel like you are in a tournament that way.
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Date: Fri, Jan 15 2010 04:45:24
Lol, starting another tournament as soon as one ends means that spinners won't have time to think of new linkages, combos, hybrids, etc. If we give them a 1 month break in between, we'll see new stuff each round.
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Date: Fri, Jan 15 2010 04:47:18
If you could kindly rename topic to "[Project][4.14] Monthly tournaments"
Also, hoiboy, I do think CERTAIN aspects need to be hammered out before just jumping in lol
Good idea though Frip.
My suggestion is maybe alternate "Divisions". I was thinking about it, and different pen styles can be like different divisions in boxing (heavyweight, etc). So like one month do "1-sided mod Division" or "Lightpen Division" or something like that.
Just something to think about
EDIT: @Kaku, i don't imagine the exact same spinners will join every time. maybe make it monthly but suggest/require that people can't do 2 in a row or something? -
Date: Fri, Jan 15 2010 04:55:19QUOTE (Sankaku @ Jan 14 2010, 09:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Lol, starting another tournament as soon as one ends means that spinners won't have time to think of new linkages, combos, hybrids, etc. If we give them a 1 month break in between, we'll see new stuff each round.
Ok, the participant cap is 16 people. I doubt there will be the same spinners in every tournament. If the interest rises high enough, it will be a fight for the spots in each tournament. (since they are limited
)
@strat
ok divisions, yes. BUT. First run a few tournaments, if the situation that I just described really should happen, then you can go and make divisions. But for that you firstly have to create a lot of public interest. So if all 16 spots are gone within 1 hour, then you could consider making divisions. Then it would turn into a league. OR you could sort spinners into different tournaments. so one tournament for single sided, one for double sided mods. (or 1 for spinners under 1 year and the other one for the rest)
You could always combine themes as well.
My main thought is that judging will be the biggest problem. If one judge doesn't submit, then everybody has to wait, everybody gets pissed, and everybody and their mom start to flame each other. -
Date: Fri, Jan 15 2010 05:05:11
Yeah, judging is a bitch. Maybe just alternate people from the RD judging or something? Like people who sign up.
But basically I was thinking for divisions, it might solve the whole "you should spin this or that" debate ... people who spin light aren't even compared to people who spin heavy .... its entirely different, like boxing divisions.
maybe that's unrelated to this project though xD -
Date: Fri, Jan 15 2010 05:12:42QUOTE (strat1227 @ Jan 14 2010, 10:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>maybe that's unrelated to this project though xD
Kinda, well you could make it the theme to just spin single sided mods...
but unless you make the tournament in real life, nobody will be able to tell if your mod is heavy or light. -
Date: Fri, Jan 15 2010 05:17:40
yeah, fair enough.
EDIT: Also, penwish giving away free stuff sounds cool, but maybe limit to a person can only win prizes like once every 3 months ... or else really good people get free shit all the time ... like Eriror could basically just deside he wants free pens and join lol. it'd be frustratng to everyon else in it -
Date: Fri, Jan 15 2010 05:46:53
@strat: well, duh
my point was to run an experiment first
also, have we talked to Penwish about his yet? -
Date: Sat, Jan 16 2010 03:51:35
Judges would be more reliable if they had an incentive to judge.
I like the idea btw. All for it. -
Date: Sat, Jan 16 2010 05:25:50QUOTE (Frip @ Jan 14 2010, 11:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ok, so the idea of having tournaments isn't new, but somehow it hasn't had it's real breakthrough yet. Tournaments still aren't very popular... Let's look at the factors why spinners lose interest in tournaments
I'm not sure why you would think they're not popular. maybe on UPSB we don't organize a whole lot of tournaments, but in the past, it has been shown that regular events (we had like at least 2-3 leagues) don't work in the long term. thats why on UPSB we give flexibility with things like ladder where people can set their own battles and it counts long-term.
In other communities they do have more tournaments, but more like standard tournaments. Tournament for beginners, pairs, teams, etc. IMO it's better to have one major event of each category every year than multiple regular small tournaments, because spinners need to "rest" and find new tricks/combos to work on. I think also the interest for repeated tournaments would decrease.
i think what you're talking about kinda reminds me of the old UPSB Official Battles. just one battle every 2-3 weeks, with a theme. People are free to signup as they like and all the results are voted. It was simple and it was pretty fun.
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Date: Thu, Jan 21 2010 16:57:10
It will work for a while, then stop working. Better to have a series of one-off events than one on-going thing that loses popularity, both in terms of participants and public interest, rapidly.
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Date: Wed, Mar 24 2010 15:16:58
I've been thinking about the use of mrbean for competitions but not in the sense of combos. Perhaps someone can host a monthly tournament on mrbean to compete to see who can say do the most FLTA's, hau tuas, most revolutions of sidespin or most number of bakfall 2.0 in a minute. You get the point. Good thing is that anyone can compete just join in. Also having this regularly can encourage people to practice more a build up some healthy competition in UPSB. (might help us in the WC's and WT's as well)
However It can be hard to see who wins on mrbeam seeing so many videos at once. Plus it can be difficult to accommodate to people in different parts of the world -
Date: Wed, Mar 24 2010 16:15:54
Like I said before, anything as regular as monthly is almost certainly doomed to failure.
QUOTEPlus it can be difficult to accommodate to people in different parts of the world
Huge problem too. As is the problem of everyone not being free at the same time. -
Date: Wed, Mar 24 2010 17:01:51QUOTE (Mats @ Mar 25 2010, 12:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Like I said before, anything as regular as monthly is almost certainly doomed to failure.
Huge problem too. As is the problem of everyone not being free at the same time.
I was actually thinking more along the lines of a simple kind of thing where anyone can host it. It could be like a game with a score system. Several people are allowed to organise it. The winner will eventually be the spinner with the highest points at the end of the year. It's a forum game as well as a tournament over the course of a year maybe. -
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 00:03:14
you mean live competition using MEBEAM?
yea I thought about it before, kinda like recoreded+streamed live on mebeam, then the recording is broadcast, mebeam is just to show that this was live, but i dunno if you can have the webcam feed into two different outputs...