UPSB v3
Philosophy / When creativity is required, and when not.
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Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 16:15:35
All of us care about creativity, but sometimes it's more important then at other times.
In a battle, creativity means almost everything. You can rip off a complete smooth combo but it wouldn't do much good against someone that introduced a new aspect of penspinning in his video. There, atleast some kind of creative move is imo something required. To succeed in adding that is often hard though, I usually don't do it myself.
Now, where then does creativity not mean as much? In collabs. I think that using a not complete and perfected move or combo in a collab is the same as blasphemy. A collab is supposed to be beautifull, and a not all too smooth move, however new or creative it may be, does not fit there.
Discuss. -
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 16:27:00
uh, i would tend to think the opposite!
in battles, you want a perfect combo. That's because creativity is too vague, too subjective. If two people happen to introduce new stuff to PS and an equal execution, how can you judge? You will have to determine which contribution is more important? That's too difficult.
That's why in battles, execution is the key, because execution is much easier to judge. You can introduce creativity, but make sure it's well used.
in collabs, you're not in competition against anyone, you can do whatever you want. So if you want to make your collab interesting and unique, you're gonna put all your crazy stuff in there for people to see. And then when people master those new tricks, they' can then use it back into the battles.
The only reason it might seem the opposite, is that people act out of self-interest. THey want to "reserve" their cool secrets as a hidden weapon in battles. It might be a waste to use it in a collab. But it shouldn't be that way. -
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 16:29:27
I have to agree with Zombo here. Battles are to display who is the most skilled spinner, and so creativity is just one aspect of many, with smoothness, speed etc also mattering at least as much, if not more. A collab however, is a showcase of pen spinning. What better time to show something new than in a showcase?
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Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 17:22:52
I've never been in a battle but I've seen em. And in them I think they tend just to do it smooth and fast without many new things. Also depending on the status of the collab (like if it is offical or just some random one) people would go for newer and harder stuff.
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Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 19:55:15
Battle videos: you should show your technical skill and your smoothness. It's all about showing the best that you bring against your opponent. Your combo should express your confidence and skill without the possibility of faltering by using something new.
Collaboration videos: well-performed combos are usually wanted, but lesser-quality combos that show something new are more acceptable than in battle vids. Overall, the quality should be high if you want to showcase a forum's best. If the concept of a collab is to show new stuff, then it would be much more acceptable as everyone is performing new stuff. Collabs could also just be for fun and not have to worry about being a showcase. Collabs may be simply for the benefit of the participants to do something with others and not focus on only showing the best. Collabs have a very wide range of reasons for being made and an equally wide range of acceptable spinning levels, in my opinion. I would rather see a visually interesting collab that is not perfect, than a collab full of super-smooth combos that just run together (I can no longer view most collabs for this reason, they are just boring to me).
Member videos: that is where you best-placed to show off new concepts/tricks. Phya's and Bonkura's member vids are great examples of that. They showed off whatever they wanted without having to worry about playing up to anyone's personal ideas about what should go in battle/collab vids. I don't need to see super-smooth spinning in member videos since I know that not everyone can do that (me, for example
). I would much rather see member vids by interesting spinners that may not be of perfect performance, as long as they can hold my attention. -
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 23:28:24
I would personally use my new tricks in a battle making the gamble that my new trick is better than his/her new trick. With a collab I would try to make it as smooth but as interesting as possible, using new tricks if they flow with the combo. For member videos and solos I would use everything at my disposal because nobodies judging.
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Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 23:30:21
for collabs/battles, i would make up a combo the moment i sign up, and practice it from there out.
for member vids, i just turn on my camera and spin. -
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 02:33:53
sketching basically said whatever i had in mind.
except for one thing, member's videos must be smooth as well, or people will get bored. -
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 09:22:42
I watched Health's member video (no offense dude, but you said it yourself)
If a video is entertaining people will watch it.
IMO, you cannot sacrifice too much smoothness for creativity, there has to be a balance, agree with Zombo btw. -
Date: Thu, Dec 6 2007 08:19:35
A collab is a showcase, yes, so it has to be perfected. That's how I see it, and what you say is actually also pointing at that, you just make it point at the opposite instead. Creativity in a battle is what makes the odds tip, just look at Scott vs Frat. Frats combo was way better, yet Scott wun (he did right?) cause of some aerial arounds. That perfectly smooth combos in collabs and somewhat creative combos in battles are borth praised should be proof enough that atleast the majority of the PS community thinks this way.
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Date: Thu, Dec 6 2007 14:37:39
well to me it seems that your thread was normative, not descriptive.
I'm not saying that's how it is, I'm saying that's how it OUGHT to be. -
Date: Thu, Dec 6 2007 20:14:04
Sorry, shouldn't have brought it up that way. Okay, let's put it like this then. Two quite equally skilled spinners battle. They're so evenly matched technically that you'll have to judge based on style or whether one person (or both) introduced something new and how well that was executed, or how revolutionizing it was.
What I'm trying to get at is that once you're at such a level of penspinning that everyone is quite even, creativity is required to win a battle. Bleh, I'm not making any sense. -
Date: Tue, Dec 18 2007 06:04:29QUOTE (Mats @ Dec 2 2007, 08:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I have to agree with Zombo here. Battles are to display who is the most skilled spinner, and so creativity is just one aspect of many, with smoothness, speed etc also mattering at least as much, if not more. A collab however, is a showcase of pen spinning. What better time to show something new than in a showcase?
I think in this case we have to start thinking when skill and creativity combine. Just take Bonkura for example all the crazy stuff he did in pen-spinning. Was this a display of skill or was it just plain to ahead of time? -
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2007 20:14:55
Creativity ALWAYS matters, albeit more so in Battle/Collab Videos.
I mean, we all know that ambidextrous spinners are going to get a lot more attention than single-handed spinners.
As for being creative, smoothly linked aerials are really impressive [imo].
I can never get tired of Asian Tim's TA Releases because they're done so well, and they're not always a finisher.
Magic incorporation also adds a new twist. I've only ever seen magic done well in Bonkura's videos, but nevertheless, it's still great to see.
As for member videos, do SOMETHING DIFFERENT. We've all seen the wonderful Twisted Sonic Bust, SO DON'T SPAM IT. Really, we know you can do something more intuitive, so show us your goods.
Don't follow mainstream; pen spinning's all about being different.