UPSB v3
General Discussion / World Cup '10 - Semifinals - Results OUT!
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Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 22:56:56
Website: http://www.worldpenspinning.com/
Semifinals:
DOWNLOAD: http://upsb.info/WC10/R4/
All Vids Pack: http://upsb.info/WC10/R4/WC10R4.zip (RECOMMENDED)
Youtube Playlist: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=809893D4528E8F11
13. GPC vs BPSC- 13.1 Technical 1vs1: Smoothness, taichi1082 (GPC) vs Kr4zy (BPSC)
- 13.2 Artistic 1vs1: Body and Environment, Stuhl (GPC) vs knuckles (BPSC)
- 13.3 Double 2vs2: TheKOok & colddi (GPC) vs Littleboy & Ivabra (BPSC)
BPSC wins 2-1.
14. JEB vs THPSC- 14.1 Technical 1vs1: Speed, Sister_R (JEB) vs Dongza (THPSC)
- 14.2 Artistic 1vs1: Creativity, ponkotu (JEB) vs BaiMai (THPSC)
- 14.3 Double 2vs2: forever & HAL (JEB) vs Spinnerpeem & Supawit127 (THPSC)
THPSC wins 2-1.
Detailed results
Comments
Theme draw
For this round, each team has the option of selecting to BLOCK one (1) theme. Each team can select one theme from the ten (10) themes available. This theme will be REMOVED from their draw, meaning it is guaranteed NOT to be selected. Each team can only block one theme only, not one theme per list.
The block choice must be sent privately before the themes are drawn. If no choice is given, then the team will not block any theme.
Use the block to either remove your opponent's greatest strength, or to hide your greatest weakness. Choose wisely.
You should send your choice after the results of round 3 are revealed so you know who your opponent is, but you can prepare in advance by planning which block you would use against which opponent.
Example:
Team A vs Team B. In secret, team A chose to block Speed and team B chose to block Spinless. Notice it's possible they both chose the same theme. Therefore the possible themes for this battle are:
Technical: Smoothness, Difficulty, Control, Variety
Artistic: Creativity, Two Hands, Aerials, Body and Environment
Speed and Spinless were removed.
Schedule
If there are no problems with round 3 judging, here is the schedule for round 3:
Block choice deadline: April 7th, 2010.
Themes drawn and revealed: April 7th, 2010.
Deadline to submit lineups: April 11th, 2010.
Deadline to submit videos: April 24th, 2010.
Judging Results: May 1st, 2010.
Good Luck!
Spoiler:
Round 2
Rosters and Groups
Rules -
Date: Thu, Apr 1 2010 09:30:26
A suggestion for the tournament?
Perhaps in the finals, each battles could have 2 themes to increase difficulty and competition.
Like one battle could have 2hands and aerials another smoothness and spinless. -
Date: Thu, Apr 1 2010 09:46:55
Nah, that's the opposite of what I want. In the final I would like to see free rules. You'd get the best possible combos from each board then. What you are trying to do it limit these people even more :/
I like what's happened so far though as now there are a lot more concepts/mini combos to learn from!
About info: Cool
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Date: Thu, Apr 1 2010 09:50:04
Perhaps this could be applied for the next WC or for this round?
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Date: Thu, Apr 1 2010 13:55:32QUOTE (Hippo2626 @ Apr 1 2010, 05:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>A suggestion for the tournament?
Perhaps in the finals, each battles could have 2 themes to increase difficulty and competition.
Like one battle could have 2hands and aerials another smoothness and spinless.
2 themes is doesn't work,
1) some themes might not even be compatible
2) the whole point of themes is not the themes themselves, but the way they favor matchups of similar style, so that they're easy to judge. For example, Gisele8 vs Darcy was a matchup that happened due to the themes. Without them, it would only happen by luck. In reality, it's a trick used to create good matchups, instead of just random luck like in previous tournaments. I am almosted tempted to draw themes, have teams make their lineups based on the themes, then simply announce the themes won't be considered before they film cuz they're only there to pair spinners of similar style (so that even without themes its still gonna be easier to judge), but it would be confusing and if ppl knew about this trick they would simply not care about themes when placing their lineup, and we would be back to random draw again.QUOTENah, that's the opposite of what I want. In the final I would like to see free rules. You'd get the best possible combos from each board then. What you are trying to do it limit these people even more :/
the goal of this competition is to determine the community with the most depth in all aspects of pen spinning, once you remove themes, you allow them to focus only on their strength and hide their weaknesses. if a team feels limited by the themes, thats actually their problem, not the system, because all the themes were set in advance, so every team should have been prepared to face any theme, this is test of this competition. -
Date: Thu, Apr 1 2010 14:28:30
It will be very interesting to see what themes are blocked! As for the 'themes' system, it's the best system I've seen for any pen spinning tournament. It's very hard to argue against it when it's been so damn good.
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Date: Fri, Apr 2 2010 04:33:24
Then how about if there were 2 themes in the doubles match where 1 spinner spins one theme and the other the next theme?
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Date: Fri, Apr 2 2010 04:47:06QUOTE (Hippo2626 @ Apr 2 2010, 12:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Then how about if there were 2 themes in the doubles match where 1 spinner spins one theme and the other the next theme?
no you cant have all the matches with themes, because you need some free spots you can use to put your remaining spinners that are not good in any of the themes,
like you have your best spinner, he's OK at a given theme, but if he wins he contributes to 100% of 1 victory, if you put it in a double, he only contributes 50%, which is why putting your 2 best spinners on a double is a waste, because putting them on 2 seperates singles give you 2 wins instead 1 if it works, but then you have to consider if you have weaker spinners but more apt for themes, thats where the tough decisions are.
also if you have two themes in one video that are not compatible your combo will look strange and a strong element of double is harmony between the two spinners, so themes will interfere with that.
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Date: Fri, Apr 2 2010 05:40:34QUOTE (Zombo @ Apr 2 2010, 05:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>no you cant have all the matches with themes, because you need some free spots you can use to put your remaining spinners that are not good in any of the themes,
like you have your best spinner, he's OK at a given theme, but if he wins he contributes to 100% of 1 victory, if you put it in a double, he only contributes 50%, which is why putting your 2 best spinners on a double is a waste, because putting them on 2 seperates singles give you 2 wins instead 1 if it works, but then you have to consider if you have weaker spinners but more apt for themes, thats where the tough decisions are.
also if you have two themes in one video that are not compatible your combo will look strange and a strong element of double is harmony between the two spinners, so themes will interfere with that.
Fair enough =) -
Date: Tue, Apr 6 2010 19:13:19
updated website: http://worldpenspinning.com/semifinals.html
because of the late results, I am forced to delay the theme draw to April 7th and the lineups deadline to April 11th.
----------
received 3/4 blocks
missing
THPSC
if they can send ASAP, I will start theme draw immediately -
Date: Tue, Apr 6 2010 20:51:37QUOTE (Zombo @ Apr 1 2010, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>the goal of this competition is to determine the community with the most depth in all aspects of pen spinning, once you remove themes, you allow them to focus only on their strength and hide their weaknesses. if a team feels limited by the themes, thats actually their problem, not the system, because all the themes were set in advance, so every team should have been prepared to face any theme, this is test of this competition.
VERY good reply. Thanks for clearing that up
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Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 01:34:10
haha, the 4 semi final teams are the top 4 in qualification round
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Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 01:59:57
THEMES -> Gisele 8 is my witness
http://worldpenspinning.com/semifinals.html
BPSC blocked Spinless
GPC blocked Speed
13. GPC vs BPSC
13.1 Technical 1vs1: Smoothness
13.2 Artistic 1vs1: Body and Environment
13.3 Double 2vs2
JEB blocked Variety
THPSC blocked Body and Environment
14. JEB vs THPSC
14.1 Technical 1vs1: Speed
14.2 Artistic 1vs1: Creativity
14.3 Double 2vs2 -
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 02:28:09
THPSC vs JEB
Speed: Dongza will be in this for sure. so JEB just got pwned
Artistic: baimai will be in here for sure so idk
Doubles: supawit+ spinnerpeem X3
Results:
at least 1-??? -
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 02:29:18
if JEB counters with Sister_R it might not be automatic win for THPSC
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Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 08:29:58
OH man the themes I was hoping for got in! WooHoo. I even got my wish that THPSC would get speed. From the looks of the themes drawn for the teams, it looks like shutl will have to spin again for smoothness and BaiMai for creativity. It's great for us to see more awesome videos but bad for them, they're probably very dry now after producing some insane videos. THPSC will definitely send Dongza for speed (Sweet.) I dunno' if Minwoo has recovered from his break-dancing accident. Hopefully he can battle against knuckles. I hope GPC and THPSC get through to the final round it looks that way.
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Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 14:08:04
JEB vs THPSC
* 14.1 Technical 1vs1: Speed (Sister_R vs Dongza)
* 14.2 Artistic 1vs1: Creativity (Ponkotu vs Baimai)
* 14.3 Double 2vs2 (?x? vs Spinnerpeem x Supawit)
JEB's not having much luck with doubles for the most part, especially if they're gonna be up against peem and supawit if thpsc decides to take one for sure with that... but jeb can still pull it off i think if they win the other two--which even then are both gonna be close calls.
And we'll see how GPC and BPSC each do... but if it ends up being GPC again, and it's thpsc vs gpc agian....and thpsc wins again.... .___. thpsc's gonna stay in 1st, and gpc's gonna stay in 2nd just like in WT09 (peem + minwoo)
I kinda wanted a THPSC vs JEB final match, but doesn't look like that's gonna be possible
If it turns out to be THPSC vs BPSC, that'll be interestinggg.... never would've thought BPSC could've made it that far
Too bad TWPS's out
i wanted them in the semifinals -
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 14:28:25
GPC vs BPSC
13.1 BPSC win smoothness, kr4zy is insane O__O'
13.2 minwoo will probably win if it's minwoo vs kknuckles...
13.3 umm...littleboy and voltaic vs ? and ? *no idea*
THPSC vs JEB
14.1 yeah Sister_R vs Dongza, will be epic. i think dongza has a bit of an edge, but probably can go both ways
14.2 ponkotu vs baimai? OMG Oo" the universe will implode from the insanity. ponkotu has a seemingly endless stream of new ideas every round, but so does baimai. 50/50.
14.3 peem and supawit will own. if JEB does choose Sister_R and ponkotu for above, then the best they'll have left are HAL and fire@fox. quality of JEB doubles haven't been very high, (except for Sister_R + HAL, which isn't likely in this case). -
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 21:17:47
HAL and forever could potentially be a strong combo from JEB, but up against peem and supawit if thpsc goes with that... i think they have very little chance of winning =\
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Date: Sat, Apr 10 2010 14:53:37
lineups posted
dream matchups for JEB vs THPSC
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Date: Sat, Apr 10 2010 15:38:35
whoa o.o
its gonna be a nice show : D -
Date: Sat, Apr 10 2010 15:56:26
lol, knuckles again for B&E
i hope you are out of ideas! (joke)
JEB vs THPSC O.O
some really nice lineups!
this round's gonna be wild!
i wish you good luck BPSC!
and whoever wins, i'm glad that europe will be represented in the finals -
Date: Sat, Apr 10 2010 18:18:07
Bleh, I soooooo disagree with Sister_R and HAL winning....
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Date: Sat, Apr 10 2010 19:05:47
JEB JEB JEB
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Date: Sun, Apr 11 2010 01:42:03
This'll definitely be the best round yet! Ponkotu vs BaiMai!?! My dreams have come true. Supawit plus Peem and Dongza I smell trouble for JEB.
Stuhl vs Knuckles that'll be interesting as well. I feel sorry for BaiMai and Stuhl, They haen't gotten a break yet. -
Date: Sun, Apr 11 2010 02:41:16QUOTE (Hippo2626 @ Apr 10 2010, 08:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>This'll definitely be the best round yet! Ponkotu vs BaiMai!?! My dreams have come true. Supawit plus Peem and Dongza I smell trouble for JEB.
Stuhl vs Knuckles that'll be interesting as well. I feel sorry for BaiMai and Stuhl, They haen't gotten a break yet.
your dream is my worst nightmare
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Date: Sun, Apr 11 2010 02:46:14
peem/supa is going to be CRAZY
if we assume that peem/supa is dream team, ponkotu and sister r needs to pull through
and i swear stuhl MUST be out of ideas
no one can do 3 super good combos and still have more material....
ponkotu vs baimai is the match of the round i predict
this round is crazy.... hella crazy
counting down til april 24th -
Date: Sun, Apr 11 2010 02:57:33QUOTE (BaiMai @ Apr 11 2010, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>your dream is my worst nightmare
Good luck man you'll need all off it. Ponkotu is insane but so are you. It's an even match I thinkQUOTE (k-ryder @ Apr 11 2010, 10:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>peem/supa is going to be CRAZY
if we assume that peem/supa is dream team, ponkotu and sister r needs to pull through
Would be hard for Sister_R. For Ponkotu's match, all we can do now is wait and see. It's the 2 of the 3 best spinners for the WC (3rd being Stuhl) (in my opinion) and I think it's a very open match (Ponkotu might have a slight advantage.)QUOTE (k-ryder @ Apr 11 2010, 10:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>and i swear stuhl MUST be out of ideas
no one can do 3 super good combos and still have more material....
BaiMai too -
Date: Sun, Apr 11 2010 03:15:57
THPSC have a strong lineup
,,I expect they can success,but ponkotu is not bad
And I think GPC will win the game...
The above chapters are My own opinion -
Date: Sun, Apr 11 2010 03:16:20
I really hope Peem+Supa meet up in person. Otherwise I won't be pleased
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Date: Sun, Apr 11 2010 03:35:54QUOTE (Frip @ Apr 10 2010, 08:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I really hope Peem+Supa meet up in person. Otherwise I won't be pleased
They have.
They have a mini gathering vid. -
Date: Sun, Apr 11 2010 03:48:00QUOTE (Look Into the Sun @ Apr 11 2010, 12:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>They have.
They have a mini gathering vid.
I think he meant a double video shot with both spinners at the same place. That'd be very interesting. -
Date: Sun, Apr 11 2010 03:49:08QUOTE (Look Into the Sun @ Apr 11 2010, 11:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>They have.
They have a mini gathering vid.
I think he's referring to them making the doubles battle together in person which would be cool very cool. However, wouldn't this give JEB a disadvantage because THPSC can have so much more interesting interactions? -
Date: Sun, Apr 11 2010 11:26:19
My...
JEB VS THPSC will be my favourite match in this cup..
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Date: Sun, Apr 11 2010 11:55:02QUOTEno one can do 3 super good combos and still have more material....
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Date: Sun, Apr 11 2010 13:47:44 lol Everbody is talking about JEB-THPSC Battle...
Really afraid about stuhl's ideas because we don't really know what he is able to do in a B/E battle
TheKook and Colddi will be hard to manage =/
Gogo Kr4zy
Good luck GPC, we don't absolutely know about the result of our battle but I am really happy to know that one european team will reach the final (6Asian vs 2European =) ) -
Date: Sun, Apr 11 2010 16:03:07QUOTE (Frip @ Apr 10 2010, 11:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I really hope Peem+Supa meet up in person. Otherwise I won't be pleased
a double where both persons spin in the same location is illegal and an automatic disqualification. every team received an email about this a long time ago.
it is simply unfair to use location as an advantage when this is an online competition. -
Date: Mon, Apr 12 2010 02:22:54
JEB vs THPSC
Dongza vs Sister_R: im pretty sure Dongza will win, but it like always, is still up in the air
Ponkotu vs Baimai: This battle is up in the air, it can go either way. (baimai shoulda gotten a break. thpsc relys to much on baimai for the style part)
Supawit/Spinnerpeem vs JEB: GG supawit and spinnerpeem will win. JEB will be raped. GG JEB. -
Date: Mon, Apr 12 2010 08:57:05
@ LittleBoy: hey, I always pay attention to the battle BPSC vs GPC
Smoothness: taichi vs Kr4zy .
Well, Kr4zy is definately crazy ( LOL ) , his style is very smooth and appeal, but taichi is very GOOD, too. His style is smooth and he also has many POWER TRICKS that can make him get more point in difficulty point. After this round 3, I havent seen any power stuffs in Kr4zy's combo, but hard to choice, may be Kr4zy just wanted to keep his best for this semifinal. I go for taichi .60/40 chance for taichi
B/E :
Stulh vs knuckkles : so hard... I love both spinners,especially Stulh, it's 50/50 , I think , but I still go for Stulh .
Double: TheKook & colddi vs Littleboy & Ivabra
TheKook has a very clean style, no need power tricks, his combo still very impressive. Especially this round, colddi will be the partner of TheKook, and as u know, colddi has many fucking insane power tricks combo.Style and Tricks, both is on this GPC double, and of course, very difficult to any double who wants to beat TheKook & colddi together.I especially love LittleBoy style and tricks. I can be sure to say that he is the best spinner in BPSC now.Ivabra is good, too. But it seems not enough for GPC double. However, if GPC put Minwoo to this double, it will make their chance to win become more and more , even more than 90%.
JEB vs THPSC:
Speed:Which teams can beat THPSC now, I think no team( I mean if THPSC use their best and suitable spinner for each theme, not like round 3 ). Dongza is a sure thing, NOBODY doesnt know him, the best speedy spinners in the world ( IMO) . SISter_R is also very very nice, really love his combos, however, it seems like Dongza has no deserved opponents for this theme. 70% chance for Dongza to win. Of course I will go for him.
Creativity: Ponkotu vs BaiMai
Ponkotu is insane, as u can see in his round 3. He has a lot of creative stuffs that can amaze audiences. Then discuss about BaiMai: IMO THPSC will win this WC10, the most important reason is that they have BaiMai, not Supawit or Spinnerpeem( just IMO) and BaiMai become a new king now. Very creative, has many powerful stuffs, with the insane ability to spin with both hands, I just want to ask myself, who cant be owned by BaiMai if he still keep his spinning up
70/30 for BaiMai
Double : forever& HAL vs Spinnerpeem & Supawit
I dont really like forever's combo ( don't know why), but HAL is my favorite, doesnt go to JEB style, HAL style seems like European style more. Fast, clean, and hard--> those are words I want to give HAL. Unfortunately, Jeb's double has to face the best double in the world now Spinnerpeem and Supawit, I think, everyone knows them, Supawit and Peem seem like they know what each other's thinking. A perfect teamwork has been created by two best spinners in the world. Understand what I mean--> no chance for forever & HAL, so sorry, Peem & Supawit will win 100% chance.
All noob analyzations above are just my OWN OPINIONS, dont blame me -
Date: Mon, Apr 12 2010 14:48:24
you are right that BaiMai, as it stands, is the #1 candidate for tournament MVP.
#2 IMO is ponkotu. -
Date: Tue, Apr 13 2010 12:11:34QUOTE (Zombo @ Apr 12 2010, 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>you are right that BaiMai, as it stands, is the #1 candidate for tournament MVP.
#2 IMO is ponkotu.
I agree that BaiMai is the WC MVP #2 but I think Stuhl should be number 2 -
Date: Thu, Apr 15 2010 09:52:37QUOTE (Hippo2626 @ Apr 13 2010, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I agree that BaiMai is the WC MVP #2 but I think Stuhl should be number 2
What? Zombo said he was candidate no.1? BaiMai, if he wins in this round, will almost certainly be tournament MVP. If he loses, almost certainly not. Big round for him. -
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 02:42:11QUOTE (Zombo @ Apr 11 2010, 10:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>a double where both persons spin in the same location is illegal and an automatic disqualification. every team received an email about this a long time ago.
it is simply unfair to use location as an advantage when this is an online competition.
awww
makes sense though
-
Date: Sun, Apr 18 2010 04:25:43
videos are due in 1 week (4/24)
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Date: Sat, Apr 24 2010 00:41:07
deadline is saturday...
start digging for vids
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Date: Sat, Apr 24 2010 03:18:09
taichi1082 (GPC)
I can't seem to find anything else :/ does anyone have any better luck finding the vids? -
Date: Sat, Apr 24 2010 03:19:57QUOTE (Savian @ Apr 23 2010, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>taichi1082 (GPC)
I can't seem to find anything else :/ does anyone have any better luck finding the vids?
Nope, that's just the first one. -
Date: Sat, Apr 24 2010 10:52:00
strat1227 will be in charge in post the vids
ill be in toronto this weekend -
Date: Sat, Apr 24 2010 14:50:58
Ponkotu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsCcDAAdVm4
Stuhl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di3V0DUxzXE
Supawit & Peem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBJuFI3Y5C8
^^ -
Date: Sat, Apr 24 2010 14:56:17QUOTE (Zombo @ Apr 24 2010, 06:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>strat1227 will be in charge in post the vids
ill be in toronto this weekend
you will? -
Date: Sat, Apr 24 2010 15:08:27QUOTE (Vikroal @ Apr 24 2010, 09:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ponkotu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsCcDAAdVm4
Stuhl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di3V0DUxzXE
Supawit & Peem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBJuFI3Y5C8
^^
ponkotu's and stuhl's really insane
really nice idea...
but I haven't seen peem&supa's video..
good luck all of u -
Date: Sat, Apr 24 2010 16:03:13
Waha~
BaiMai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xvviU8LI2g
knuckles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMyrOxqhSw
Dongza
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrjBONyRquQ -
Date: Sat, Apr 24 2010 22:18:28
hi~
here are bpsc vids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMdtQqjQLJA
Ivabra x Littleboy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZg_7QSLrFQ
Krazy (Smoothness)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMyrOxqhSw
Knuckles (Body&Environnement)
Good luck GPC =) -
Date: Sat, Apr 24 2010 22:29:00
OMG! All of these vids... BEAUTIFUL!
Spinnerpeems palmspins
-
Date: Sat, Apr 24 2010 23:16:56
jeb vids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx5xvOQulwM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys9zNKMcSYE
rest should be on youtube alrdy so just find it and list it here thx -
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 00:01:46
Colddi & Kook Still missing...
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Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 01:19:22QUOTE (taichi1082 @ Apr 24 2010, 06:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Colddi & Kook Still missing...
alright gay. -
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 03:10:13QUOTE (taichi1082 @ Apr 24 2010, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Colddi & Kook Still missing...
Here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Y3YM9Ce3o
————————————————
Semi-Finals
Teams in the semi-finals
13. GPC vs BPSC
13.1 Technical 1vs1: Smoothness,
taichi1082 (GPC) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLIHnWiRgOg
vs
Kr4zy (BPSC) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZg_7QSLrFQ
13.2 Artistic 1vs1: Body and Environment,
Stuhl (GPC) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di3V0DUxzXE
vs
knuckles (BPSC) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMyrOxqhSw
13.3 Double 2vs2:
TheKOok & colddi (GPC) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Y3YM9Ce3o
vs
Littleboy & Ivabra (BPSC) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMdtQqjQLJA
14. JEB vs THPSC
14.1 Technical 1vs1: Speed,
Sister_R (JEB) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx5xvOQulwM
vs
Dongza (THPSC) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrjBONyRquQ
14.2 Artistic 1vs1: Creativity,
ponkotu (JEB) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsCcDAAdVm4
vs
BaiMai (THPSC) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xvviU8LI2g
14.3 Double 2vs2:
forever & HAL (JEB) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys9zNKMcSYE
vs
Spinnerpeem & Supawit127 (THPSC) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBJuFI3Y5C8 -
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 03:25:08
all videos added to first post
added poll
will update website tomorrow -
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 04:18:53
13. GPC vs BPSC 2-1
13.1 Technical 1vs1: Smoothness, taichi1082 (GPC) vs Kr4zy (BPSC)
Kr4zy had a short combo, maybe too short to win this. I chose him over taichi1082 'cuz taichi's combo was boring. Nothing really was new or special. It was like been done, been done, been done, get outta here.
13.2 Artistic 1vs1: Body and Environment, Stuhl (GPC) vs knuckles (BPSC)
Hehe I Stuhl's combo. Spinningwise though, Stuhl had a pretty weak combo. Knuckles had a better combo, but his interpretation of the theme wasn't nearly as "cool"
13.3 Double 2vs2: TheKOok & colddi (GPC) vs Littleboy & Ivabra (BPSC)
IMO, GPC messed themselves up here. TK + colddi looked like they were the same spinner, and the transitions were terrible. The spread spam at the end was also pretty bad :/. Props to Ivabra for catching my eye with the opener. Ivabra and Littleboy complemented each other nicely.
14. JEB vs THPSC(2-1/3-0)
14.1 Technical 1vs1: Speed, Sister_R (JEB) vs Dongza (THPSC)
I never liked the speed theme because the combo's always turn out ugly, to focused on speed. IMO, Dongza did better. He was faster, though not nearly as appealing. Sister R spent too much time on finisher. He spent a quarter of his combo on pinky spreads.
14.2 Artistic 1vs1: Creativity, ponkotu (JEB) vs BaiMai (THPSC)
Could go both ways. Ponkotu had really nice ideas with 1p2h, though his barrel roll screwed up the cadence of his combo. BaiMai's magic tricks... weren't nearly as impressive, but his ideas and lighting were off the chart. The only way magic tricks seem to work are if the ideas are new. 3shine did the pen-changing trick like that before, so it wasn't nearly as novel.
14.3 Double 2vs2: forever & HAL (JEB) vs Spinnerpeem & Supawit127 (THPSC)
forever/HAL had way too short of a double tag thingy. The transitions weren't inherently obvious, and at some times, seemed to be lacking altogether. Also, their speed doesn't match. Peem and Supawit wasn't all that great either. It seemed like it was powertrickfest2010. But, good enough to beat forever/HAL. -
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 04:28:24QUOTE (hoiboy @ Apr 24 2010, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>13. GPC vs BPSC 2-1
13.1 Technical 1vs1: Smoothness, taichi1082 (GPC) vs Kr4zy (BPSC)
Kr4zy had a short combo, maybe too short to win this. I chose him over taichi1082 'cuz taichi's combo was boring. Nothing really was new or special. It was like been done, been done, been done, get outta here.
13.2 Artistic 1vs1: Body and Environment, Stuhl (GPC) vs knuckles (BPSC)
Hehe I Stuhl's combo. Spinningwise though, Stuhl had a pretty weak combo. Knuckles had a better combo, but his interpretation of the theme wasn't nearly as "cool"
Contradicting yourself. The bounces that knuckles did have been done many times before.
Stuhl should win that. And I think GPC will get the doubles as well, Littleboy overshadows Ivabra by far, which makes the double seem ~too unbalanced. but then again Littleboy is god so idk
-
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 04:38:24
My opinions on THPSC vs JEB
Sister_R vs Dongza: Well we know who is getting the fastest spinning award of the year. Dongza obviously
Ponkotu vs Baimai: Most epic battle of the arts. im not gona post a winner cuz its too close
SS vs FH: Peem and Wit raped, not mostly because of their spinning but because Hal and forever were not really in sync... but powerfest of wc10 was win -
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 04:45:13
power tricks,power tricks,power tricks,power tricks,power tricks,power tricks,power tricks,power tricks,power tricks
next time if u want to win in WT OR WC,pls master ur power tricks
btw,dongza,u are really tooooo fast -
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 05:05:12QUOTE (Frip @ Apr 24 2010, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Contradicting yourself. The bounces that knuckles did have been done many times before.
Stuhl should win that. And I think GPC will get the doubles as well, Littleboy overshadows Ivabra by far, which makes the double seem ~too unbalanced. but then again Littleboy is god so idk
The only thing I have to complain about stuhl is his low difficulty but aside from that, twas a badass combo. I agree with you for gpc. Ivabra does not double well with littleboy. Ivabra's spinning feels underdeveloped to me and it really stands out in a tag with littleboy. When did thekook turn into a powerspinner? :\ Though coldii's power tricks look excellent.
@song
Ponkotu's gotten thru the WC thru creativity alone. One can say his difficulty is a bit low for World-class standards (indeed he's even just spinning a...comssa?), but his creativity has won him the game every round. Including this one. Baimai's magic tricks aren't gonna win him the round. Magic tricks aren't scored very highly usually anyway. -
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 06:26:43
First of all, I'd like to say this round really made a good impression on me. Almost every single match has the possibility (even if small) of going both ways. Thanks to the theme system the matchups were also very interesting, pairing spinners of similar skills.
13. GPC vs BPSC
13.1 Technical 1vs1: Smoothness, taichi1082 (GPC) vs Kr4zy (BPSC) (smoothness)
It's clear that both spinners weren't entirely confortable with the theme (one look at supawit's round 2 should settle what 'being confortable with smoothness' means), you can almost hear them saying to themselves "maintain the speed, maintain the speed..." and that obviously had an impact on their combos. For me the decisive factor here is the way both spinners used smoothness, regardless if they were out of their confort zone by doing so, and on this point, kr4zy has an advantage. In spite of being very short and relatively easy, his smoothness caused a funny effect on the spinning, making the pen draw circles in the air and occasionally disappear.
taichi's combo was also acceptable, and I think he should've won without problems had he finished the combo after the second hai tua. But it looks like he missed it, and then got slightly confused and did that strange charge reverse -> backaround that simply ruined the theme. The fact that taichi's combo is considerably more difficult might give him chances, but I find that unlikely.
Winner: Kr4zy
13.2 Artistic 1vs1: Body and Environment, Stuhl (GPC) vs knuckles (BPSC) (body & environment)
Recently I laughed out loud thanks to pen spinning twice, the first being when I saw THSPC's lineups for this round, and the second when a miniature car came out of nowhere bringing a pen with it. Stuhl must be regarded as a pen spinning artist. He showed us enough concepts on this tournament to make bonkura impressed. However, as this is both an artistic and sportish (a neologism if you please) competition, other sides of his spinning must be considered as well. The difficulty of his combo is very low, and the nose-triangle spin is funny, but the body factor doesn't add anything to the trick.
knuckles's combo, although not nearly as fun, is completely amazing. He improved every single aspect of his last video, namely angle, spinning and use of environment. While watching his combo, one gets the felling that if he was spinning on the street, he could really improvise tricks like he does in the video. For me the breakthrough was when he bounced the pen at the table (a trick that unfortunately is not easily seen). This should give knuckles the win, but Stuhl was simply amazing as well.
Winner: knuckles
13.3 Double 2vs2: TheKOok & colddi (GPC) vs Littleboy & Ivabra (BPSC)
It seems that many doubles on this round decided to make their videos with segments of smaller combos, which is completely valid if well done but an excuse for using 9 second combos that the spinner couldn't manage to complete if not. That seems to be the case on GPC's combo. Don't take me wrong, their spinning is completely sick, and i'm sure it's not their skills that compromised their work, but rather the way they built their double. Every single transition is very strange and the whole, even with both spinners having similar styles, is not very convincing.
BPSC's transitions weren't very appealing as well, but the way little boy appears out of ivabra's combo looked nice to me. The spinning is also very interesting, since both have contrasting styles, Ivabra being smooth and using a light pen, that gives flow to his combo and Littleboy, with his controlled power trick rows mixed with some creative elements. The whole is not a double video masterpiece, but BPSC's done a good job a deserve the point.
Winner: Littleboy & Ivabra
BPSC 3-0
14. JEB vs THPSC
14.1 Technical 1vs1: Speed, Sister_R (JEB) vs Dongza (THPSC)
I wish I had more to say about this match, but it's probably the only overkill of the round. Sister_R, for some obscure reason, reduced the speed when he most needed it: a speed match against Dongza. The constant change of direction, vintage of his style, was not welcome here, and the many passarounds made the combo lose its flow. The ending, although impressive, makes the combo look like a list of elements, rather than a coherent whole. Such impressive spread sequence deserved a proper build up, but it looks as if he was freestyling in front of his camera and luckily pulled the finisher out.
Dongza's combo on the other hand makes use of the theme (his specialty) to enhance his spinning. However the ending, a very strange midback also makes his combo look as a freestyle. Nonetheless the better use of the theme, plus his superior difficulty will give him the win.
Winner: Dongza
14.2 Artistic 1vs1: Creativity, ponkotu (JEB) vs BaiMai (THPSC)
Wow, a match with very bold combos. ponkotu's combo starts with conventional spinless motives (though very well executed) that suddenly build into… a roll on the floor? Ok, it looked a little forced (like he simply had to include one bold creative element on his combo to beat baimai), but it's interesting anyway. The way his pen changes its speed while bouncing on the table during the second part of the combo is also remarkable.
Now, it's funny to say, but this round clearly showed that when a spinner comes out with the most bold concepts, he is in fact lacking constructive ideas. BaiMai's combo is very interesting in a sort of artistic conception of pen spinning, but on conventional realms, the magic tricks look to much forced. However, since creativity is the theme here, and he indeed did something very new (considering aspects such as lighting and clothing), he still might have a chance, but I simply find ponkotu's combo more appealing.
Winner: ponkotu
14.3 Double 2vs2: forever & HAL (JEB) vs Spinnerpeem & Supawit127 (THPSC)
I've been dying to see the big thai Ss together on this tournament. I myself being a fan of their style, dislike when people complain they are just throwing power tricks. It's clear that both are completely comfortable with what they are doing (supawit's smoothness shows that VERY clearly) and are always trying to include new stuff on their combos. The only thing I have to complain on this double is the transition, which is so bad that it almost says "ok, we're so good that a transition isn't even necessary to win" (and in a way, that turned out to be true). The content of the combos is very varied and both spin similarly.
forever & HAL on the other hand just trowed a short, poor video that cannot stand better at any possible judging criteria. The transitions were very average and although both styles mixed kinda well, both were below average, and that's never enough when facing the world's best.
Winner: Spinnerpeem & Supawit127
THPSC 2-1 -
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 06:37:43
k firstly id like to stand up for the JEB teams doubles. i think hal is an incredible spinner and this shows in his combo's sense of speed with counters. he probably should have been
in the speed round. but of course def the win goes to peem and supa.
ponkotu and baimai i cant really choose. i wouldnt say ponkotu is winning from creativity alone. bc the tricks are creative, and no ones done the tricks b4 and hence there are no tutorials perhaps the tricks are just as difficult as any another aspect. bc essentaially they are creating at trick, practicing in, refining it and making sure it looks good on camera. bc honestly im wondering about the "difficulty" of "powertricks". if so many people can do these tricks (which honestly is like dozens and dozens of spinners now) is this really that difficult? bak fall was once a really really difficult trick but bc everyone does it now its presence in a combo is lesser then what it used to be. there are tons and tons of video tutorials on how to do bust and haitua, but none really on how to do a barrel roll then spin on the head then bounce on the ironing board.
i would say what an awesome round, clearly WC10 has been very sucessful. -
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 06:53:46
THPSC got this!
-
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 07:07:29QUOTE (neoknux_009メMT @ Apr 24 2010, 11:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>k firstly id like to stand up for the JEB teams doubles. i think hal is an incredible spinner and this shows in his combo's sense of speed with counters. he probably should have been
in the speed round. but of course def the win goes to peem and supa.
ponkotu and baimai i cant really choose. i wouldnt say ponkotu is winning from creativity alone. bc the tricks are creative, and no ones done the tricks b4 and hence there are no tutorials perhaps the tricks are just as difficult as any another aspect. bc essentaially they are creating at trick, practicing in, refining it and making sure it looks good on camera. bc honestly im wondering about the "difficulty" of "powertricks". if so many people can do these tricks (which honestly is like dozens and dozens of spinners now) is this really that difficult? bak fall was once a really really difficult trick but bc everyone does it now its presence in a combo is lesser then what it used to be. there are tons and tons of video tutorials on how to do bust and haitua, but none really on how to do a barrel roll then spin on the head then bounce on the ironing board.
i would say what an awesome round, clearly WC10 has been very sucessful.
Difficulty isn't about how many people can do the trick. -
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 09:34:14
My thoughts about this round
13. GPC vs BPSC
13.1 Technical 1vs1: Smoothness, taichi1082 (GPC) vs Kr4zy (BPSC)
I would say both combos were equally smooth. Taichi has shown smoothness with a lot more difficult tricks though the first half of his combo was normal and boring. That fast and smooth isolation he did was SICK!!!!!! Kr4zy combo was very interesting but was too short and it did not show his smoothness totally. I did like the trick he did from 0.10 to 0.12. By the way does Taichi's look redish?
13.2 Artistic 1vs1: Body and Environment, Stuhl (GPC) vs knuckles (BPSC)
Stuhl's combo was not as strong as Knuckles but the main focus of his combo was on the theme of the match. Knuckles did not show as many new things as Stuhl in regards to body and environment except for the intro of the combo where he used the blanket to flick the pen in the air. Stuhl's use of the toy car, his keyboard holder and his face was new and very cool. His entire combo also encompassed humor with the playing of the toy car with the pen and at the end and when he showed his face to the camera with the glasses and the triangle pass 123nose, I couldn't help but laugh. It was cool that both of them ended the combo with the pen ending in a pen holder. However, Knuckles outro was not as nice because he just threw the pen into it, it would have been cool if he did a bakriser or a bust release into the holder. Stuhl's outro into the cup was cool with his spin transfer.
13.3 Double 2vs2: TheKOok & colddi (GPC) vs Littleboy & Ivabra (BPSC)
BPSC linkage from one spinner to the other was different and cool as compared to GPC's one which was boring and normal and slightly unclean. The second half of GPC's combo was virtually power tricks spam and half of that spam was spread spam. BPSC combo was also more appealing than GPC with a fair bit of 1p2h stuff.
Winner GPC 2-1
14. JEB vs THPSC
14.1 Technical 1vs1: Speed, Sister_R (JEB) vs Dongza (THPSC)
Dongza was very fast as well as consistent with his speed. Dongza also showed more ability to maintain the fast speed when executing difficult tricks than sister_R. I didn't like the pinkyspread spam by sister_R at the end. It really didn't do the combo any justice with the theme as speed.
14.2 Artistic 1vs1: Creativity, ponkotu (JEB) vs BaiMai (THPSC)
Best battle of the round definitely! BaiMai seems so dry of ideas. His magic tricks were pretty impressive but it didn't seem to push the boundaries of that area of pen spinning. Though his 2p1h stuff was ever so awesome. His display was really cool with the lighting, his finger and hand movements really made the combo appealing and black background which really amplified his spinning and magic. Ponkotu had really cool stuff with his 2p1h stuff and inc-operating body movements with his spinning, table tricks and expanding the usage of his arms. When the combo went off screen for the few moments really deducted some appeal points but he wins overall because he really pushed displayed more creativity than BaiMai. Though it was a close match and I would have voted for BaiMai if it was a friendly match with no themes.
14.3 Double 2vs2: forever & HAL (JEB) vs Spinnerpeem & Supawit127 (THPSC)
I like the combo dynamics of both sides but the obvious winner is THPSC because the link from supawit to spinnerpeem was much more cleaner than forever and HAL plus Peem did it again with his new power trick cont. FL. IA -> palmspin. (INSANE!!) (forsee a whole new rangeof power trick spamming now and If THPSC gets to the finals and they get the theme of difficulty, they'd probably send Peem, I'll be insanely worried if I were their opponents.)
winner THPSC 2-1 -
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 10:48:41
Personal opinions about this round
:
13. GPC vs BPSC
13.1 Technical 1vs1: Smoothness, taichi1082 (GPC) vs Kr4zy (BPSC)
We clearly see that kr4zy is a lot smoother than his opponent : no mistakes, same speed and the pen seems to have his own life. Taichi's combo is really nice but we can see 2 smoothness mistakes at the end of the combo (0.19, 0.21). Moreover taichi's smoothness looks not like a natural smoothness : when we look to kr4zy's pen and fingers, everything comes together perfectly. Taichi seems to have more difficulty to control his smoothness. So on the one hand kr4zy overshadows totally taichi when looking to the theme but on the other hand taichi's combo is longer and probably more difficult (even if some of kr4zy's linkages are really not easy). But the theme is more important and furthermore, krazy's style is more developped... Really nice to watch
Kr4zy wins
13.2 Artistic 1vs1: Body and Environment, Stuhl (GPC) vs knuckles (BPSC)
O_o Really Close / Stuhl is by far more creative, nice environment parts / Knuckles is using a lot of environment tricks which are really difficult to realize(especially the table bouce and the finisher). So Stuhl totally agrees with the theme (which is the most important thing in a B/E battle) but his combo is a lot easier than knuckle's one (triangle pass => 7sec in the combo). I don't also know what I have to think about the car intervention =D. Some smoothenss mistakes in knuckles' combo but his way to use the environment is great (moving into the room, mirror, bed, stand up, sit down, using 2 hands). It's an important advantage of knuckles in this battle. Knuckles' trick at 0.11 is really impressive too.
Tie? Maybe Stuhl will win...? but knuckles is not far from the win too
13.3 Double 2vs2: TheKOok & colddi (GPC) vs Littleboy & Ivabra (BPSC)
Close battle but first, if we look at the transitions, we see that the belgians guys have made 2 logical transferts (1 more creative). GPC's transferts are not really well-done however =/ TheKook and colddi are more technical than me and ivabra but they have split their video in 4differents parts (easier to record so). Colddi is really insane with his god powerful tricks and a nice style ; however, I don't really like thekook : offscreens, powertricks seems uncontrolled, powertricks spam too,...)
Ivabra's intro and finish were totally awesome, good smoothness but a littke mistake in the first clip. Idk what I have to see about my combo but I have the feeling that due to GPC's mistakes and powertricks spam, we could win this double match.
Littleboy and Ivabra
GPC-BPSC : 0.5-2.5 gné? -
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 11:32:04
hm, i agree with the double.
but i just think, that kr4zys combo was a bit too short and simple.
of course, it's smooth as hell, but maybe not enough in other categories.
we will see
of course i am hoping that we win 2-1
the double is imo a clear lose. -
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 12:27:56QUOTE (neoknux_009メMT @ Apr 25 2010, 04:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>perhaps the tricks are just as difficult as any another aspect. bc essentaially they are creating at trick, practicing in, refining it and making sure it looks good on camera. bc honestly im wondering about the "difficulty" of "powertricks". if so many people can do these tricks (which honestly is like dozens and dozens of spinners now) is this really that difficult?
single power tricks aren't really that hard (like it seems that over half 6 month spinners nowadays can hai tua etc), but stringing them together into 10-second+ fingerless combos is very difficult.
dongza vs Sister_R: Sister_R's combo was 'nicer' imo, but it was way too slow for speed theme. r1 combo was better for this. didn't like dongza's ending, but rest of combo was extremely controlled, smooth and fast as usual (nothing new though). dongza win.
ponkotu vs baimai: ponkotu's ironing board and roll thing were very nice =) but the starting sequence (or variants thereof) have been used before. i think baimai is exhausted from previous rounds. his magic trick does not seem to be that well done (especially compared to twister's last round) ponkotu will probably win.
spinnerpeem/supawit vs HAL/forever: in JEB double, HAL didn't spin long enough to show all his skills. too short =\ THPSC, supawit is crazily smooth and controlled for his fingerless sequence and baks, spinnerpeem does the impossible with the inverse bust?/palmspin hybrid...i think spinnerpeem still has a lot of stuff he hasn't revealed yet. peem/supa win. -
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 13:12:56QUOTE (LittleboyBPSC @ Apr 25 2010, 12:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>[...] taichi's combo is longer and probably more difficult (even if some of kr4zy's linkages are really not easy). But the theme is more important[...]
From the official Rules:
"The theme is not an essential part of judging. If a combo clearly disrespects the theme of
the match, then it must be penalized heavily in the judging. However, if both combos
respect the theme, then it is the better combo overall that wins. If two combos are evenly
matched in all other aspects, then it is the combo which respects the theme better that
wins."
I hope I wasn't too disrespectful. Regarding the theme.
also - I'm in no position to judge lol. Therefore no comment on the difficulty and creativity. -
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 13:20:47
GPC vs BPSC
taichi vs kr4zy : kr4zy's combo is too short...although it's very smooth...i prefer taichi's in this battle. Taichi1082
Stuhl vs knuckles : Stuhl has interesting objects in this battle....Most remarkable video in this round for me. Stuhl
DOUBLE : BPSC win the double....nice transitions...and LittleBoy rocks! BPSC
JEB vs THPSC
Sister_R vs Dongza : Sister_R was slower than before...even HAL faster than him Dongza really own this battle...Beautiful Speed!! Dongza
ponkotu vs baimai : Ponkotu has an interesting combo..nice bouncing!! even IMO the roll is not too good..Baimai's magic trick is so so...its a normal and basic magic tricks...not remarkable as ponkotu,,...ponkotu
DOUBLE : THPSC...amazing supawit and insane spinnerpeem...best tag video THPSC
2-1 & 1-2 FOR ME
nice battle!!!!!!!!!!!! -
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 13:54:42QUOTE (Look Into the Sun @ Apr 25 2010, 01:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The only thing I have to complain about stuhl is his low difficulty but aside from that, twas a badass combo. I agree with you for gpc. Ivabra does not double well with littleboy. Ivabra's spinning feels underdeveloped to me and it really stands out in a tag with littleboy. When did thekook turn into a powerspinner? :\ Though coldii's power tricks look excellent.
@song
Ponkotu's gotten thru the WC thru creativity alone. One can say his difficulty is a bit low for World-class standards (indeed he's even just spinning a...comssa?), but his creativity has won him the game every round. Including this one. Baimai's magic tricks aren't gonna win him the round. Magic tricks aren't scored very highly usually anyway.
wow i couldn't disagree more ... his creativity is amazing, but it's the things he does with the pen that i couldn't imagine ever being able to do that always wow's me with his combos ... VERY high difficulty in my opinion, i don't think there are many people in the world who could copy his combos -
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 13:57:17QUOTE (taichi1082 @ Apr 25 2010, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>From the official Rules:
"The theme is not an essential part of judging. If a combo clearly disrespects the theme of
the match, then it must be penalized heavily in the judging. However, if both combos
respect the theme, then it is the better combo overall that wins. If two combos are evenly
matched in all other aspects, then it is the combo which respects the theme better that
wins."
I hope I wasn't too disrespectful. Regarding the theme.
also - I'm in no position to judge lol. Therefore no comment on the difficulty and creativity.
Yes but the theme is more important than the others aspects of the combo : that's why themes exists. Even if the smoothness is not the thing wich must absolutely decide who will win or not, it is important. You are smooth but kr4zy is really smoother. IMO you're a lot more technical but if we look at the creativity there is no differences between both spinners and kr4zy's style is more developped and probably more beautiful to watch. So if we look at the others aspects, you don't overshadow kr4zy even if the battle is really close. Kr4zy's combo is short ok, but it must not be a great penality for me and moreover his short combo means a combo with no repetitions
-
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 16:12:25QUOTE (Frip @ Apr 24 2010, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Contradicting yourself. The bounces that knuckles did have been done many times before.
Stuhl should win that. And I think GPC will get the doubles as well, Littleboy overshadows Ivabra by far, which makes the double seem ~too unbalanced. but then again Littleboy is god so idk
The spinning parts of the combo, not the parts that include triangle pass n123 or bounce a pen against a desk thing or use a mirror thing. -
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 19:46:24QUOTE (strat1227 @ Apr 25 2010, 06:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>wow i couldn't disagree more ... his creativity is amazing, but it's the things he does with the pen that i couldn't imagine ever being able to do that always wow's me with his combos ... VERY high difficulty in my opinion, i don't think there are many people in the world who could copy his combos
His creativity is amazing, I agree. But spin transfers are somewhat easy (but I guess that's arguable). The two-handed sequence, while nicely done and looks good--I especially like 00:06 to 00:07 where he holds the pen by applying pressure with both palms, looks good and I haven't seen that done yet-- but in terms of difficulty, it is rather easy to do. Two-handed tricks that involve holding the pen with both hands to execute the trick are rather easy--I believe the unofficial term is assisted spinning. It's also not very hard to roll around on the floor (not that I didn't like that section of the combo, I'm just saying: it's not hard to roll around on the floor).
My favorite trick which I must say, I haven't figured out how to do, is near the end where he utilizes the ironing board and the pen sort of pops up vertically. Difficult? Probably not--but I'm not 100% sure about that trick.
Overall, yeah. -
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 20:06:21
@Littleboy: Theme was 33% and the rest 66% i think.
-
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 22:20:01QUOTE (Look Into the Sun @ Apr 25 2010, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>His creativity is amazing, I agree. But spin transfers are somewhat easy (but I guess that's arguable). The two-handed sequence, while nicely done and looks good--I especially like 00:06 to 00:07 where he holds the pen by applying pressure with both palms, looks good and I haven't seen that done yet-- but in terms of difficulty, it is rather easy to do. Two-handed tricks that involve holding the pen with both hands to execute the trick are rather easy--I believe the unofficial term is assisted spinning. It's also not very hard to roll around on the floor (not that I didn't like that section of the combo, I'm just saying: it's not hard to roll around on the floor).
My favorite trick which I must say, I haven't figured out how to do, is near the end where he utilizes the ironing board and the pen sort of pops up vertically. Difficult? Probably not--but I'm not 100% sure about that trick.
Overall, yeah.
I guess I wasn't talking about this combo, but his spinning overall. I still don't think many people could recreate his combos without it looking terrible -
Date: Sun, Apr 25 2010 22:59:48QUOTE (strat1227 @ Apr 25 2010, 03:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I guess I wasn't talking about this combo, but his spinning overall. I still don't think many people could recreate his combos without it looking terrible
Perhaps...but aesthetics isn't part of difficulty (but I suppose that is also arguable). Still, in general, his combos are low in the difficulty scale imo.
-
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 00:17:30
I think i'd have to agree more with LITS on this one even though strat, i see where you're coming from.
It's difficult to have creativity, and it's difficult to make things look smooth, and it's difficult to make things look good...but I don't feel like those should be categorized under the difficulty scale as much even though they are difficult things to do.
I feel like the difficulty scale applies to how hard a trick is, and in reality, the spin transfers and assisted spinning isn't that hard alone. Yeah, the way he does it is really hard and creative at the same time...but I don't think it's any harder than any other decently difficult trick. It just seems more difficult because nobody's seen it before as much perhaps? and because it's creativity is so high.
The stuff that ponkotu does in general gives him big creativity points, but again, not that much difficulty. If you take the amount of time it takes to learn/do a section of his combo, and compare it to learning double bust for the first time or something... i'd say it could be relatively the same. It's just the appeal of the creativity that makes you think it's harder than it actually is. =\ -
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 02:27:34
the download pack and website have been updated
look first post -
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 10:08:09
ok, my analysis
taichi vs krazy:
i think taichi's combo is both longer and a bit more difficult, but overall, krazy's was smoother, and to me, more appealing
krazy's combo has a much more mellow tone about it, its smoothe because its been crafted smoothe, rather than taichi's which is a normal combo which he perfected (although not quite in practice) to be smoothe
i would say krazy
stuhl vs knuckles
at first, i was blown away by stuhl; his crazy rc car and keyboard tray thing
knuckle's combo i thought was hard to see because of the angles, so that just passed me
but upon rewatching knuckles, its way more difficult that stuhl's, in terms of the tricks he used to incorporate the theme
stuhl, yes, has the car and nose triangle pass, but knuckles throws the pen against the desk, and catches it perfectly, which is extremely difficult to do
and i agree with the comment made about knuckles being able to perform that combo in the streets, and it would be a very flashy and awesome performance
i believe knuckles wins this one
and at this point, i sentenced gpc to death, which i really didn't want to do, i wanted to see gpc in the finals
the doubles:
gpc's pair seemed to want to contest thpsc's 2 S'es for the title of "most powertricks used in a doubles combo"
and i think (might be my personal dislike of powertricks) but it seemed unappealing, especially the off screen parts
dispite whats been said about bpsc's pair, i think they had the better performance
i especially liked the cont tricks being in time with the music
so i seemed to have bpsc winning 3-zip
dongza vs sister_r
dongza obviously, and although on re-watch, sister's combo is pretty fast, watching that after dongza's made it feel super slo
ponkotu vs bai mai
i didn't like the lighting of bai mai, nor the magics tricks to be honest
magic has been done before in this tornament, and i dont think it brought anything new
ponkotu on the other hand.... did a barrel roll
and i really liked the pen popping
and yeah, his combos are rather on the easy side, but aesthetically, its amazing
if he works on harder linkages and maybe transfers, he is one of the top, top spinners
the double:
powerfest-oh-10, and nothing more to say
even with my dislike of powertricks, the thpsc pair BLEW. ME. EFFIN. AWAY
thpsc 2-1
i cant wait for the finals.... gonna be epic
i've really loved this tornament, although its the first tornament that i've watched all of the videos -
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 11:44:17QUOTEThe stuff that ponkotu does in general gives him big creativity points, but again, not that much difficulty
hm, but if you think about it, you need easy tricks to make creative things.
i don't really think, that you can do something creative with a hai tua x5...
so, of course are creativity-combos a way easier than combos based on difficulty.
btw: doing a smooth nose triangle pass (reverse) isn't that easy hm, i don't know. it will be a close battle. i think my execution is better than knuckle's (a bit unsmooth and i think he nearly dropped the pen at one point, when he sits down). but indeed, he has more difficulty (although there is imo much spamspinning between the specials).
so, i'm really excited about the results.
btw.: i don't think there is a criteria for "he can do that combo in the streets". well, i just wanted to do kinda "new" B&E combo. because everybody is standing in front of the camera. i've never seen a B&E combo with someone sitting at his usual cam-posi. that was my thought. and concerning penspinning as a "desk-sport" or "desk-art" it's imo very suitable to use a desk and things you have on a desk.
hm, but indeed we need (a lot of) luck to win this round. double lost (imo clearly...) and taichi... hm. maybe similar situation like for my battle. -
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 12:06:34
what i think
taichi vs kr4zy
i can't really tell who ll win this one. first i don't like smoothness x) and taichi is as smooth as kr4zy imo; so about theme it's quite equal
taichi did a more difficult combo, even if ending looked strange. idk if i liked it or not lol. combo is ok. good
kr4zy; it's all about style and xp. i think his combo is more appealing and nice to watch, but yeah combo is a bit short and i feel like something is missing
winner: ill say : draw ^^
will smoothness theme be so important that kr4zy'll win? or taichi's harder combo 'll count more? hard to say right
stuhl vs knuckles
another battle that can be win by both sides...
stuhl's combo is more attranctive to watch (even if i don't like style). pen structure of the combo is very good, and he managed to do a complete b/e combo in a quite small cam viewangle. good job. the fact is that the spinning part is a bit easy. tp abuse
knuckles did a very difficult combo, that needed much work. but he has to choose a far cam viewangle it's less attractive ad we do not see clearly what's he's doing (especially while hai tua with left arm passing on air) sometimes not so smooth also.
winner : i'll say draw again x)
will b/e elements be so important that stuhl'll win? or knuckles harder combo 'll count more? again hard to say xD
funny thing we got here two battles where
theme is against global difficulty... so let's tell this 1-1, idk which one tough xD
of course it can go on both ways...
double gpc vs bpsc
here there's no doubt for me, belgian duo is much more appealing
offscreens in german duo, too far view angles, lack of precision in transitions
the only advantage is more power tricks than in belgian duo, even if there is 3 spreads 2 hai tuas 1 pop 10 fl ta's and triple ringbust in that belgian duo xD maybe too much? =s
style, structure, transitions, editing helped also i think
winner: bpsc
can go from 2-1 gpc to 3-0 bpsc imo
very very undecided. fun
gl again -
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 18:00:05QUOTE (Stuhl @ Apr 26 2010, 04:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>hm, but if you think about it, you need easy tricks to make creative things.
i don't really think, that you can do something creative with a hai tua x5...
so, of course are creativity-combos a way easier than combos based on difficulty.
Not true. This is difficult but creative:
The running man. I find this very hard to link into a combo. Currently I link it as: Shadow ~ The Running man by thrusting my hand forward during a shadow. -
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 19:18:28
lol...
but that's no traditional powertrick.
and i'm sure, that a lot of people wouldn't realize this as a difficult-trick in a creativity combo. because everybody knows, that the """"real"""" difficult tricks are busts, hai tuas, sidespins, spreads, etc... -
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 19:34:56QUOTE (Stuhl @ Apr 26 2010, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>lol...
but that's no traditional powertrick.
and i'm sure, that a lot of people wouldn't realize this as a difficult-trick in a creativity combo. because everybody knows, that the """"real"""" difficult tricks are busts, hai tuas, sidespins, spreads, etc...
It doesn't have to be a typical power trick to be difficult. -
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 19:47:43
indeed!
but what i wanted to say: sometimes a lot of people don't see the difficult aspects of some creative tricks. because the first impression is - > creative.
while the first impression of a haituabustblablabla is - > difficult.
actually i'm talking about the facile observation of combos.
=) -
Date: Mon, Apr 26 2010 20:25:05QUOTE (Stuhl @ Apr 26 2010, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>indeed!
but what i wanted to say: sometimes a lot of people don't see the difficult aspects of some creative tricks. because the first impression is - > creative.
while the first impression of a haituabustblablabla is - > difficult.
actually i'm talking about the facile observation of combos.
=)
Mmm, point taken. Then I guess we both agree to each others' arguments. Case settled. :] -
Date: Tue, Apr 27 2010 11:12:11
I have to disagree with everyone voting for Knuckles. No doubt, his combo had a lot more difficulty than Stuhl but it was not as good as Stuhl's combo for many reasons. Firstly, Knuckles reused his angle setup with the mirror and the bed (with the exception of the table.) which is boring and uncreative of him. If you compare this with BaiMai, his first 2-hands video was a sick combo with 2p1h but he brought it to anew level with 4p2h. A large aspect of this theme is creativity and not being able to think of a new angle doesn't show it.
Secondly, Knuckles combo had nothing new in comparison to Stuhl. Knuckles usage of the E part on the combo was normal with his bed bounce and table bounce. Stuhl's combo showed a different side to the use of B/E with the use of the toy car and the keyboard holder.
Next, is that Stuhl's combo had a great balance of B/E whereas Knuckles had focused mainly on E.
Lastly is the appeal of the combo. Knuckles combo was so rough and unattractive as compared to Stuhl which and a lot of elegance and humour.
EDIT: I forgot 1 point. Everyone says that Knuckles combo was more difficult tan Stuhl but in fact Stuhls combo was harder. Knuckles had a difficult combo and he was able to control his combo. Stuhl had so much more variables to consider that he could not control with the desk thing and the car. The difficulty of Stuhls combo came about with the coordination of the combo.
This is in no offense to Knuckles, I think your combo is great, just that Stuhls is better in my opinion. -
Date: Tue, Apr 27 2010 13:02:55QUOTE (Hippo2626 @ Apr 27 2010, 07:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Firstly, Knuckles reused his angle setup with the mirror and the bed (with the exception of the table.) which is boring and uncreative of him.
note that stuhl infact used the same angle for the whole tornament, is that uncreative and boring?
i do agree that stuhl did incorporate more "new" elements, with that being the car and allQUOTE (Hippo2626 @ Apr 27 2010, 07:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Next, is that Stuhl's combo had a great balance of B/E whereas Knuckles had focused mainly on E.
i would say stuhl had more body elements
and you say that knuckle's combo was "rough and unattractive" but stuhl's triangle passes also were a bit unsmoothe
and i would say that stuhl and knuckles did go for complete opposites of the b/e spectrum
knuckles went for the "street-busker" style, while stulh did "casual pen spinning at desk"
and it is true what stuhl said about no-one having done a "cas-desk" B/E combo
this is a really interesting battle, can't wait to find out results -
Date: Tue, Apr 27 2010 13:08:48QUOTEnote that stuhl infact used the same angle for the whole tornament, is that uncreative and boring?
Stuhl was not trying to use the angle to benefit him but working around the angle. Knuckles was using the angle for his spinning advantage so I think Stuhl's angle shouldn't be considered.QUOTEi would say stuhl had more body elements
and you say that knuckle's combo was "rough and unattractive" but stuhl's triangle passes also were a bit unsmoothe
It was un-smooth but it had it's purpose of making use of his rotting chair and his nose. It was not as dry as he added humour with his glasses. -
Date: Tue, Apr 27 2010 14:39:55
actually i avoided humor by using my sunglasses.
because my eyes are like this
during this trick -
Date: Tue, Apr 27 2010 15:32:35
And to be completely fair, the car isn't anything new, I did the same thing 4 years ago in a tournament battle
-
Date: Tue, Apr 27 2010 15:42:55QUOTE (strat1227 @ Apr 27 2010, 11:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>And to be completely fair, the car isn't anything new, I did the same thing 4 years ago in a tournament battle
it wasn't a motorized car, it was just a toy you pushed with your hand -
Date: Tue, Apr 27 2010 15:43:01QUOTEAnd to be completely fair, the car isn't anything new, I did the same thing 4 years ago in a tournament battle dunno.gif
sry, but i just can't take that serious...
-
Date: Tue, Apr 27 2010 15:58:34
Zombo no it wasn't ....
Stuhl, I'm not trying to take away from your combo, but the idea that pushing a pen with an RC car is "new" is just false
EDIT: Creative yes, new no. For what it's worth though, I thought you won the battle -
Date: Tue, Apr 27 2010 16:06:37
what i mean is: 4 years...
come on, if you look back about 4 years... soooooo many things were done. some only once, some twice, others 1000 times...
i never said, that i'm the "inventor" of this car-idea... but i think nevertheless it's creative. i started spinning at 2007. so, you did this trick before i ever knew something about penspinning.
edit: i read your edit! ok, i think things are clear now -
Date: Tue, Apr 27 2010 16:09:07QUOTE (strat1227 @ Apr 27 2010, 11:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Zombo no it wasn't ....
Stuhl, I'm not trying to take away from your combo, but the idea that pushing a pen with an RC car is "new" is just false
EDIT: Creative yes, new no. For what it's worth though, I thought you won the battle
if it was that beta battle then i think you used that as a transition, but i dont think to the extent stuhl is showing -
Date: Tue, Apr 27 2010 18:24:21
Round 4 Analysis
You will notice that the rules are very conservative around the importance of themes. In its first version, the theme was worth something like 33% of the total grade. Because of concerns that the themes would limit the pen spinners, the judging was modified such that theme would only be considered a minor element, a “tiebreaker†when combos are of same quality. I feared that spinners would not understand the themes or not be able to respect them, especially for the creative themes.
What happened however far surpassed my expectations; the spinners fully embraced the themes and made it a major component when planning their combos. For the better or the worse, each round has produced a wide palette of combos that are very different due to those themes. On one hand, this will undoubtedly help the progression of pen spinning by introducing new ideas and concepts to the world, which will later be refined and possibly integrated into the standard repertoire. On the other hand, people who were expecting a very high level representation of current pen spinning (let's call it traditional spinning) have only less content to get by which is disappointing for them. So I think people either love this World Cup or hate it; there's no middle ground.
Now when it comes to judging themes, I believe the overall quality of the combo is still more important than the theme. However, if a combo is only better in a single aspect and worse in the theme, then it should be the combo that's better in the theme that wins. In other words the overall quality has to be better not just a single aspect. Of course, all of this also depends on how big the differences are.
13. GPC vs BPSC
13.1 Technical 1vs1: Smoothness, taichi1082 (GPC) vs Kr4zy (BPSC)
Close match. taichi1082 made a solid combo. Structurally I think the combo is well built. I like the idea to make a fake ending to highlight what I believe is the best moment of both videos combined, and thats the fast wrist turn isolation (:21). That isolation is very fluid so it adds quite a bit to the smoothness theme. However I think the “real†ending should have a bit more content. On the minus side, there is a clear mistake at :04. Normally this kind of mistake is a penalty, but since this is the smoothness theme, the penalty is even more important. The other thing that's important to look for is a very rounded combo. For example, the cobra bite is the smoothest part of the whole combo because the rotation both from the pen and the hand is very steady. But in other parts, it's a little “jagged†and it does not look quite as effortless as it should be. The first half of the combo before that said cobra bite is especially lacking in that aspect.
Kr4zy really nailed the theme perfectly. What I find impressive is the very steady vertical rotations he's able to generate. Normally when you go at a slow speed, it's difficult to get those vertical spins smooth because of gravity. But Kr4zy has this “floating†effect on these spins. My favourite part starts at :09 with those beautiful rotations and I really like the way he manages to speed up and slow down without losing fluidity. It feels a bit like dropping an object into water. The disturbance created by the drop is quickly dissipated and compensated for by the rest of the water. That's the feeling you get when you watch Kr4zy's combo: elastic rubber. Now the main problem with Kr4zy is that the combo is too short. Right after that momentum build up described above, I would have liked to see a bit more elaboration on this.
Winner: Kr4zy. Both did a good job. Some might say taichi1082 had a better combo overall but I don't agree. Yes taichi1082 was better in some aspects like difficulty of tricks and to some extent originality (with the fast isolation), but Kr4zy made a very polished combo and I would have been very impressed with his ability to fluctuate tempo even outside of the smoothness theme. And the fact Kr4zy is much stronger on smoothness should compensate any difference, if any, in overall skill.
13.2 Artistic 1vs1: Body and Environment, Stuhl (GPC) vs knuckles (BPSC)
Lots of nice ideas in this match that are worth looking. I have never taken any lesson in video filming or editing, but I can tell that “video composition†is a key factor here. First Stuhl made a very elaborate combo. The part that impresses me the most is the beginning. He exploits the spinning space very nicely.
First the intro by pushing the pen using the front of the car is well thought and a good idea to start the combo. But what's good about this is not that it's car, because that's really just a novelty, but the fact this external object generated a push on the pen which kept rolling even after the car stopped. This roll is very useful because it is seamlessly integrated into the combo. And that's what I like, the ability to use objects to provide force that assists the hand. After the little sequence, I also liked the fact that the pen is pushed out using the back of the car this time. It makes perfect sense to go in using the front and then out with the back.
The next part is what I like the most. He synchronizes the exit of the first pen with the entrance of the second pen perfectly which makes it easy to follow. Conceptually, the two entrances are similar. First, the pen came out of a hidden area. In the first entrance, it's out of the screen, in the second it's under the table. That's nice because it shows he is only thinking about the visible area but also about the area outside of the visible area (around the filming space). Now that's not uncommon because we see this often in doubles transition. However, he takes it to the next level by considering areas that are UNDER the visible area. Second, both the first entrance and the second entrances are different applications of the same concept of external force. In the first, the external force came from a motorized toy. For the second, the external force came from the slanted keyboard holder, thus providing gravitational force. So what I really like about those pen entrances is that conceptually they're the same, but visually they look totally different because of the location and the nature of the external forces used. The next part is also very good: he first slid his pen from his keyboard holder, then back up onto his knees and then again on his arm. To me this scores a lot of points in the theme because he just applied the same motion to three different surfaces in succession. Also because of the camera angle, the motion looks “flat†but since we know they're on different surfaces, it also provides depth to the movement. Very interesting.
Unfortunately, I think the second half of the combo is far less interesting. If you are going to use the full time allowed, then you must make sure that the quality of the element you are presenting is worth the time allocated to it. In the case of the nose triangle pass I don't think it's worth it. Because it takes a really long time, it is being showcased as the main highlight of the combo. But in reality, it is not the strongest, most impressive element. I think this is because the execution is faulty. It really looks just like unsmooth triangle T12 that barely touches the nose. The best aspect of this element is the synchronization between the rotation of the pen and the rotation of the chair, which makes it look like the pen is a crank for turning the chair. The knee part I find is the weakest of the combo, does not bring much and it's not fluid. The ending is nice though.
knuckles to me is on the other end of the spectrum in terms of video composition. Poor management of the spinning space makes his combo look awkward. I don't like the fact that the combo starts at the very edge of the left border. I can't explain why, but I think that for people who are right-eye dominant (like me), focusing on the very left edge is unsettling. I don't see why he couldn't push that table to the left so the combo is more centered. Now for the actual elements I actually like them better than Stuhl's. The starter has some very nice rotations. Really like the two-handed infinity as well. I think the best element is the angled bounce. That is spectacular and the best highlight of both combos. The problem is that it wasn't really prepared for so it looks really fast and not as noticeable as it could be. Finally the finisher is better than Stuhl. The throw is simpler, but much riskier and impressive. But the main problem here is that the first half of the combo looks rough because it's not really spinning at the right location.
Winner: TIE. I find both videos have their strong points. Stuhl has better planning, structure, overall appearance. Knuckles has stronger elements.
13.3 Double 2vs2: TheKOok & colddi (GPC) vs Littleboy & Ivabra (BPSC)
First the GPC video has some good stuff but also a lot of bad. From an organization and structure point of view this combo has big flaws. All three transitions have problems. The first one doesn't really match, the second one has a big pause after the throw (why show a victory sign in the middle of the video?) and the third one makes no sense. The structure of the video as a whole needs more coordination between the spinners. I thought it wasn't necessary to switch back to colddi for the finisher when TheKOok was already starting to do big power tricks. It made the finisher unnecessarily too long and repetitive. From a spinning point of view I find the combos very energetic and harmonious. Both spinners spin at the same pace and enthusiasm. I also find that TheKOok's second part to be best.
For Littleboy & Ivabra, the transitions are much much better than GPC. I really like the first one; it breaks from the traditional “throw off-screen†transition and it looks really good because of the editing. Also like the fact that for the second transition, the pen is thrown upward, which preserves the virtual locations of the spinners (Ivabra being above Littleboy). Spinning wise, I find the combos more varied than GPC but less harmonious. The pacing is the same but Littleboy looks so much more skilled than Ivabra, so much that the final part of Ivabra doesn't seem necessary. Maybe a different ordering of the spinners was needed. Favourite part is the transfer to the left hand by Littleboy at :23.
Winner: Littleboy & Ivabra. I think it's a clear win, their product is more polished and varied.
BPSC wins 2.5-0.5. I think there is only 1 clear win in the whole battle, so it could end up GPC 2-1.
14. JEB vs THPSC
14.1 Technical 1vs1: Speed, Sister_R (JEB) vs Dongza (THPSC)
You have to wonder whether or not Dongza can win outright based on the theme alone. The difference in speed between him and Sister_R is so huge it might as well just be. Sister_R's video is not as fast as the first one and that one wasn't even super fast to begin with. But even if you look at the videos, you can see that Sister_R is hesitant. When you're going for speed, you need to be very confident in your skills and anticipate in advance. If you start reacting to the movement of your pen, that's when you lose a lot of speed. I like the part before the spreads at :11 but that's about it.
For Dongza, that's some really good speed. Like the part at :18. But I think he toned down on his difficulty a lot. Also, there's a little too much hand movement, would have liked to see more stability.
Winner: Dongza, no contest.
14.2 Artistic 1vs1: Creativity, ponkotu (JEB) vs BaiMai (THPSC)
I think this match will be played on the strength of its highlight elements. Execution-wise, I think ponkotu was average, because his body roll looks very awkward (he actually stumbles and hit the table-thing and goes off-screen. For BaiMai, the technical problems come in the form of too much downtime.
The first magic trick takes too long to set up for little reward and the pen is switched, the pen is barely spinning until the arm magic.
When it comes to looking at the elements, I think ponkotu has the advantage. The body roll is a very nice concept. The idea here is that the body has become an extension of the pen and is spinning along the pen. This concept was introduced by pyralux and his snaking and we see more general version of it here. Both have some fairly elaborate two-handed tricks. I like the one by ponkotu at :05, where the pen's rotation is stopped by the other hand and brought back. For BaiMai, I like the pushing of the pen using the other hand to keep the rotation going at :01. But the best part for me is the sequence at :15. Excellent bounce of the table by using a finger to press on the tip of the pen. The following “vertical stand†of the pen is also very good.
For BaiMai, you have two magic tricks which are decent but nothing really that innovative so it seems like he ran out of ideas. The other idea is exploiting the camera angle to make the pen disappear which looked great but nothing major.
Winner: ponkotu, fairly easily.
14.3 Double 2vs2: forever & HAL (JEB) vs Spinnerpeem & Supawit127 (THPSC)
For forever & HAL, the contrast in speed between the two is a bit disturbing. Of course it makes the video very dynamic but there should have been at least some “rounding†to tie the videos together. Especially the transition at :17 really cuts too much. But individually each spinner did fairly well. In particular I like HAL's parts.
For Spinnerpeem & Supawit127, the video looks very professional. The highlight of course is the amazing palmspin ~ FL IA continuous starting at :39. Great stuff. But if you look beyond that, there really is a great harmony between the two spinners. They exploit each spinner's handedness perfectly. Look at the arm angles of each spinner. It forms a symmetrical “V†and this symmetry reinforces the idea of “perfectionâ€. Also their style of spinning focus on big rotations that are facing the camera, so it's always very clear whether they're spinning clockwise or counter-clockwise. Notice how Supawit127 makes a huge sequence clockwise starting at :16 but reverses the direction at the last moment at :26 right before the transfer at :28 in order to prepare for the starting sequence by Spinnerpeem who begins counter-clockwise.
Winner: Spinnerpeem & Supawit127, fairly convincing.
THPSC wins 2-1.
BPSC vs THPSC in the final, GPC vs JEB for 3rd place. -
Date: Tue, Apr 27 2010 18:31:28
wait this is just your personal analysis right, not the actual results?
also in regards to what the WC has produced, I think that the theme thing works amazingly for the team tournament, but for WT's it shouldn't be incorporated because then it's not the "best" spinner, it's the most versatile spinner (which i guess the same argument could be made about the "best" board too for WC's) -
Date: Tue, Apr 27 2010 18:33:23QUOTE (strat1227 @ Apr 27 2010, 02:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>wait this is just your personal analysis right, not the actual results?
also in regards to what the WC has produced, I think that the theme thing works amazingly for the team tournament, but for WT's it shouldn't be incorporated because then it's not the "best" spinner, it's the most versatile spinner (which i guess the same argument could be made about the "best" board too for WC's)
yes
nobody said it was for the WT. for the WC it works because it gives different responsabilities to each team member, thus increasing the feeling of playing as a team and teamwork. -
Date: Tue, Apr 27 2010 18:42:02QUOTE (Zombo @ Apr 27 2010, 02:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>nobody said it was for the WT.
yes i know, i was just saying that i agree that it works well in WC but not WT -
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 08:46:43QUOTE (Zombo @ Apr 28 2010, 02:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I don't like the fact that the combo starts at the very edge of the left border. I can't explain why, but I think that for people who are right-eye dominant (like me), focusing on the very left edge is unsettling.
its not the eye-dominant-ness that makes is unsettling, its the overall composition
the right side of the screen is set up as the foreground, and there is a diagonal from the yellow pen cup to the back corner of the room (on the screen, that would be the from bottom right to top left)
that in itself is fine, but knuckles is positioned right at the centre, facing the background
this makes the pen and spinning appear to be in the background, and there is knuckles' back between us and the pen (which is the main interest)
this in essence is like reading a magazine over someone's shoulder, you can read it, but its pretty uncomfortable, because of that body being a 'barrier'
tbh, its not that bad until he stands up, when the spinning is situated in the back corner (top left)
now, the main interest (and movement) is in the farthest point in the shot, which gives that unsettling effect
also because zombo mentioned the composition of the video, i realise that knuckles could have turned a tiny bit in to his right when he does his 2 handed infinity, and that would have made it a bit cleaner
but i like knuckles' set up, i want to try a combo with the angle set up similar like that sometime
edit: now that i think about it, the eye does tend to like bottom left to top right
thats because (for the western world) we read left to right, and the foreground is conventionally established to be at the bottom of the screen -
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 17:06:12
To the organisation team:
in the last rounds, lots of communities have given their comments of their judgement in their own language or even without comments. could you organize, that the comments can be translated to English this round.
It's interesting to know, what the other communities think about the battles, especially for the two 1 vs. 1 GPC-BPSC matches.
Zuris -
Date: Wed, Apr 28 2010 17:30:28
the rulebook states that judges are free to write their comments in any language
it is the responsibility of the reader to translate -
Date: Sat, May 1 2010 15:28:31
received judging:
PSH
TWPS
SPSC
PPP
UPSB
FPSB
missing:
HKPSA
KPSA
VNPSB -
Date: Sun, May 2 2010 06:32:27
still missing HKPSA KPSA VNPSB
I don't have enough votes yet to declare majority
if I dont get thte votes tomorrow, the results will be based on current votes -
Date: Sun, May 2 2010 14:47:40
results are out (first post)
please note that KPSA vote is missing, but this vote cannot affect the outcome of the battles. it can change the result of one match, but its not enough to change the whole battle. -
Date: Sun, May 2 2010 20:49:57QUOTE (Zombo @ Apr 28 2010, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>the rulebook states that judges are free to write their comments in any language
it is the responsibility of the reader to translate
Maybe we could change this rule for the next tournement.
Sorry, because then, I don't see the necessity in writing comments if the people don't understand them but those who speak the language of the commentator. If it's a international competition, we must ensure that there is no barrier between the languages. For example, it could be the task of the manager to translate the comments.
And by the way, the GPC didn't give any comment in Round 3, although there is a rule that the judges MUST write a comment...
http://upsb.info/WC10/R3/results/comments/gpc.txt
And another question: What happens, if several spinners can't participate, for example because of an illness and the community doesn't have enough spinners to staff all battles. Can the community replace one spinner because of an unforseen reason?
Thx
Zuris -
Date: Sun, May 2 2010 20:58:27
gpc didn't give me comments that day because manager Steffen was in hospital for 1 month with multiple surgeries. but he was supposed to give comments after but never got them.
it's not that easy to find managers which can even speak english well. with 3 years of international tournaments experience, the biggest barrier in language. for teams like JEB its really hard to find a english manager. their translation would probably be using Google Translate or something, which anybody can do.
if you dont have enough spinners thats unfortunate but it hasn't happened so far. with 6 spinners and only 4 per battle it should be quite comfortable. -
Date: Sun, May 2 2010 20:59:37
All of the results are exactly how I guessed- except for Knuckles vs Stuhl, where I didn't know.
Congratulations everyone, can't wait to see the final! -
Date: Mon, May 3 2010 03:22:42
aw, no more videos from ponkotu or stuhl =[
-
Date: Mon, May 3 2010 04:50:25QUOTE (melvenorc12 @ May 2 2010, 11:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>aw, no more videos from ponkotu or stuhl =[
they might play in the 3rd place battle... -
Date: Mon, May 3 2010 07:53:00
sweeeeeeeeeet
-
Date: Mon, May 3 2010 15:48:23
ã€GPC】taichi1082 vs ã€BPSC】Kr4zy
BPSC居然赢得了这一局的比赛?
看æ¥å¾ˆå¤šè£åˆ¤æ˜¯å—了Zombo的评论影å“.
æˆ‘ä¸ºè¿™æ ·å¥½çš„ä¸€ä¸ªç‰‡è€Œæ²¡æœ‰èµ¢å¾—æ¯”èµ›æ„Ÿåˆ°å¯æƒœ
我想就åƒå…¨ä¸å›½çš„Spinner也想ä¸é€šä¸ºä»€ä¹ˆDarcyä¼šè¾“æŽ‰æ¯”èµ›ä¸€æ ·.
Zomboï¼Œå¾ˆå¤šæ—¶å€™ä½ çš„ä¸€å¥è¯„论
就已ç»æ”¹å˜äº†ä¸€ä¸ªç»„织现今以åŠå°†æ¥ä¸–ç•Œæ¯çš„èµ°å‘
让一些æ£ä¹‰ï¼Œæˆ–者一个比å¦ä¸€ä¸ªæ›´ç”¨å¿ƒæ‹ç‰‡çš„Pser最åŽæ²¡æœ‰å¾—å
ŠŠ???应有的结果.
åƒVNPSB，在R1å’ŒR2对PSH的评分是æžä¸å…¬æ£çš„
我ä¸çŸ¥é“ä¸ºä»€ä¹ˆä¼šæœ‰è¿™æ ·ä¸‰æµçš„è£åˆ¤.
å¦‚æžœè½¬ç¬”çš„æ¯”èµ›åœ¨è¿™æ ·ä¸‹åŽ»å°±å·²ç»ä¸æ˜¯â€˜ ä¸–ç•Œæ¯ â€™è€Œåº”è¯¥å«â€˜ Zomboæ¯ â€™äº†.
身为一个转笔界的æƒå¨
æˆ‘å¸Œæœ›ä½ èƒ½åœ¨è£åˆ¤éƒ½æäº¤ç»™ä½ ç”案之åŽåœ¨åŽ»çŒœæµ‹æ¯”赛的结果( 当然å‰ææ˜¯å½“ä»–ä»¬éƒ½äº¤ç»™ä½ Answer之åŽä½ 没有去看)
è¿™æ ·æ‰ä¼šè®©äººçœŸæ£è®¤å¯ä½ 的猜测是百分之百的æ£ç¡®.
而ä¸æ˜¯ç”¨ä¸€äº›è¯„论让大家都照ç€ä½ 写的ç”æ¡ˆåŽ»ç»™ä½ ç”案
è¿™æ ·çš„æ¯”èµ›çœŸçš„æ²¡æœ‰ä»»ä½•çš„æ„义.
Do you think？ -
Date: Mon, May 3 2010 16:54:36
first let me translate
QUOTE (PshSai @ May 3 2010, 11:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>ã€GPC】taichi1082 vs ã€BPSC】Kr4zy
BPSC居然赢得了这一局的比赛
看æ¥å¾ˆå¤šè£åˆ¤æ˜¯å—了Zombo的评论影å“.
BPSC has won this battle, it looks like the judges are influenced by Zombo's comments.QUOTEæˆ‘ä¸ºè¿™æ ·å¥½çš„ä¸€ä¸ªç‰‡è€Œæ²¡æœ‰èµ¢å¾—æ¯”èµ›æ„Ÿåˆ°å¯æƒœ
我想就åƒå…¨ä¸å›½çš„Spinner也想ä¸é€šä¸ºä»€ä¹ˆDarcyä¼šè¾“æŽ‰æ¯”èµ›ä¸€æ ·.
It is unfortunate that all chinese spinners don't agree with Darcy's defeatQUOTEZomboï¼Œå¾ˆå¤šæ—¶å€™ä½ çš„ä¸€å¥è¯„论
就已ç»æ”¹å˜äº†ä¸€ä¸ªç»„织现今以åŠå°†æ¥ä¸–ç•Œæ¯çš„èµ°å‘
让一些æ£ä¹‰ï¼Œæˆ–者一个比å¦ä¸€ä¸ªæ›´ç”¨å¿ƒæ‹ç‰‡çš„Pser最åŽæ²¡æœ‰å¾—ï
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Zombo's judging has already affected the future direction of the World Cup and it's unfair for the spinners.QUOTEåƒVNPSB，在R1å’ŒR2对PSH的评分是æžä¸å…¬æ£çš„
我ä¸çŸ¥é“ä¸ºä»€ä¹ˆä¼šæœ‰è¿™æ ·ä¸‰æµçš„è£åˆ¤å˜åœ¨.
For example, VNPSB made some questionable votes against PSH in R1 and R2. I don't understand such weak judging is allowed.QUOTEå¦‚æžœè½¬ç¬”çš„æ¯”èµ›åœ¨è¿™æ ·ä¸‹åŽ»å°±å·²ç»ä¸æ˜¯â€˜ä¸–ç•Œæ¯â€™è€Œåº”该å«ï¿
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This looks more like Zombo's Cup than World Cup.QUOTE身为一个转笔界的æƒå¨
æˆ‘å¸Œæœ›ä½ èƒ½åœ¨è£åˆ¤éƒ½æäº¤ç»™ä½ ç”案之åŽåœ¨åŽ»çŒœæµ‹æ¯”赛的结果ï¿
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�?????当然å‰ææ˜¯å½“ä»–ä»¬éƒ½äº¤ç»™ä½ Answer之åŽä½ 没有去看）
As a competition official, you should only post your comments after the judging is submitted.QUOTEè¿™æ ·æ‰ä¼šè®©äººçœŸæ£è®¤å¯ä½ 的猜测是百分之百的æ£ç¡®.
This way there is no doubt you have no influence on the outcome.QUOTE而ä¸æ˜¯ç”¨ä¸€äº›è¯„论让大家都照ç€ä½ 写的ç”æ¡ˆåŽ»ç»™ä½ ç”案
è¿™æ ·çš„æ¯”èµ›çœŸçš„æ²¡æœ‰ä»»ä½•çš„æ„义.
Otherwise judges can copy my answers and the results have no significance.
-----
I think it's a valid point but it's a little late to raise it. I always make it clear that it's my personal opinion and actually many people write their opinion here. I do not consider my opinion more important than any of them. Furthermore, I also posted my opinion during the WT09 and there was no complaint. The fact that my judging is more accurate this time than during WT09 is a result of easier judging due to the themes.
For Darcy, PSH voted against him so I don't see how this opinion is valid.
For VNPSB, they made judging that is different from everyone so you complain they're bad. If they make the same judging as others, then it's because they copy me? Also they voted for Darcy, so maybe you agree with them?
I will not post my comments during the finals but the results of this WC10 are very fair compared to previous tournaments.
----
今年的比赛比å‰å¹´å®¹æ˜“判æ–å› ä¸ºæœ‰é¢˜ç›®æ‰€ä»¥åˆ¤æ–比较é½å¿ƒã€‚ WT09æ¯è½®æˆ‘也给过我的评论也没人ææ„è§.
PSH的判æ–å对 Darcy，都是åŒæ„他的形象太差。。。
VNPSB的判æ–æ ¹æˆ‘ä¸åŒçš„æ–¹é¢å¾ˆå¤šï¼Œè¿˜èƒ½èµ–我å—ã€‚ä»–ä»¬è¿˜æ”¯æŒ Darcyï¼Œä½ ä»¬åŒæ„。。。
决赛我ä¸ä¼šå‘表我的评论。今年的WC10的结果比以å‰å…¬æ£çš„多 ...
