UPSB v3
General Discussion / Minwoo's Revival
Project M Revival
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Date: Fri, Jun 18 2010 14:38:03
Right so ive recently invited Minwoo to a collab to unpleasantly receive this:
"Hey neo,
thanks for invite. But I quit penspinning.
Have fun and good luck on your project.
M"
I was well aware Minwoo was taking a break of some sort, but wasnt aware he has decided to quit completely ( i dont have full details yet, but this message
is way too blunt and straightforward to be a "break" messages "im comming back later" message etc)
All i know is the following:
-He has gotten more into break dancing
-Minovate 3rd apparently was his last collab
-He has lost interest and broke his right arm? (which should be healed already anyway)
-He Says he "deserves the break"
Now i know many pen spinners quit all the time, but i feel like we are losing someone here. Here we have a pen spinning marvel,
an icon who has made countless contributions to the pen spinning world.
I always ask the question why people fully quit and never return?
Why must there be binary choices? Why is it that people who quit/think about quitting say they MUST CHOOSE "Pen spinning at pro level" or "Quiting pen spining completely". Cant you have something in between ?
He has appeared on countless tv shows, contributed beautiful collabs, competed in online and offline competitions, used his skills in many
tv ads and always spins with that "wow" factor. I am almost always impressed with Minwoo's combos and he's taken risks and pushed new boundaries with assisted and free spin tricks to create unique style of his own. A Minwoo Style.
Minwoo is one of the few pen spinners how has taken up pen spinning to that level of professionalism. You can see it in his collabs, his combos his live combos.
He encompasses beauty, style, but i think when i say minwoo i really think "that is freakin cool". The same feeling everyone got when they first
saw pen spinning on youtube.
What am i trying to do here? Im trying to save somehting here. If we as pen spinners have any responsiblity i know the right thing to do would try reasonabally to encourage
minwoo to keep going.
Thats what i feel anyway...thats what i know.
ULTIMATELY THIS IS HIS CHOICE we must understand that first and foremost. Im not saying we should force minwoo, but i think ...we should try to prevent this.
we SHOULD NOT violently spam him messages on msn or his emal or facebook and whine to prevent him from retiring..Perhaps....a renewal project of some sort ...a tribute perhaps something that may encourage him to comeback or in the future come back. It has to be something special, unique, international but it ultimately must be "cool" and "professional"
List your ideas and thoughts. -
Date: Fri, Jun 18 2010 14:47:47
Why?
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Date: Fri, Jun 18 2010 15:08:31
I agree.
If minwoo wants to be like 3D and take a break for a bit, that's fine, but I will really look forward to him coming back.
He is a very large contributor to the PS community, losing him is really sad, especially considering how many people have him as their favorite spinner. -
Date: Fri, Jun 18 2010 15:42:57
wow, i'm stunned. minwoo was very inspirational.
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Date: Fri, Jun 18 2010 17:35:04QUOTE (neoknux_009メMT @ Jun 18 2010, 07:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>What am i trying to do here? Im trying to save somehting here. If we as pen spinners have any responsiblity i know the right thing to do would try reasonabally to encourage
minwoo to keep going.
Thats what i feel anyway...thats what i know.
ULTIMATELY THIS IS HIS CHOICE we must understand that first and foremost. Im not saying we should force minwoo, but i think ...we should try to prevent this.
Minwoo could care less about how much you want him to start wasting his time flipping around pens again. -
Date: Fri, Jun 18 2010 18:17:17
After Minwoos "Taking a break"-Video I was already doubting that he would return.
Too bad ._.
Also - whats this attitude of penspinners saying "I quit penspinning, no more combos"?
I can understand that people eventually get tired of penspinning (especially the scene)... but why no more videos? Is it really that difficult to record a short FS if someone asks?
Imagine: You can grant someones deepest wish by investing 30 minutes in front of a camera.
(deepest wish lol. also - quality standards etcblabla) -
Date: Fri, Jun 18 2010 21:33:51QUOTE (XYZaki @ Jun 18 2010, 01:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Minwoo could care less about how much you want him to start wasting his time flipping around pens again.
agreed. Minwoo could care less about how much you want him to spin. Losing him is a great loss but really theres nothing we can do about it. its his choice;. -
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 03:40:11QUOTE (XYZaki @ Jun 18 2010, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Minwoo could care less about how much you want him to start wasting his time flipping around pens again.
wow u guys really have that little hope?
1. Wasting time?
There is no justification for that. I could use the same logic for bboying, tennis, hockey..its all for fun
and entertainment.
2. Flipping around pens?
wow your a pen spinner ... pen spinning is more than flipping around pens. its an art man.
it annoys me so much. This is happening to guy who once said in a video "keep spinning". And perhaps minwoo couldnt care less, but
theres no absolutes when it comes down to an interest spectrum and love for a hobby.QUOTE (spinneraddiction @ Jun 18 2010, 4:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>theres nothing we can do about it.
watch me try.
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Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 03:49:00
minwoo might or might not come back, only time will tell =/
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Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 03:59:31
WHATTT!!!
ok first we lost seven (idk if its a permanant loss or temporary break, but judging by what he says, hes not gonna come back)
now we lose minwoo.
minwoo is a source of inspiration to many of us (including me) and the hardcore edition (twister PSH). yea losing him is a sad thing. its still his choice in the end, maybe all we could do is do a "goodbye minwoo" collab or something -
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 04:15:17
I second the collab. make a collab with all "minwoo-style" combos, and minwoo mods. But what i don't know is if we should make it a farewell collab or a please come back collab?
EDIT: the farewell may persuade him to come come back, so I guess they serve the same purpose? -
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 04:19:14
lol, encourage him to come back..? well, i'm sure he's thought it through very carefully already when he was deciding to quit PS
and while i don't know how close you are to minwoo.. but i doubt that you can convince him to join because you want him to say (since nobody else here seems to want to encourage minwoo to change his mind with you)
i haven't made any major contributions to PS like minwoo has, but if I were to quit and people were nagging (or encouraging, whatever word you choose is fine) me to come back, i'd only get more annoyed and want to avoid everyone more -.-'' guess you can hope minwoo's not like that though -
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 04:27:25QUOTE (JC @ Jun 18 2010, 11:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>lol, encourage him to come back..? well, i'm sure he's thought it through very carefully already when he was deciding to quit PS
and while i don't know how close you are to minwoo.. but i doubt that you can convince him to join because you want him to say (since nobody else here seems to want to encourage minwoo to change his mind with you) i haven't made any major contributions to PS like minwoo has, but if I were to quit and people were nagging (or encouraging, whatever word you choose is fine) me to come back, i'd only get more annoyed and want to avoid everyone more -.-'' guess you can hope minwoo's not like that though
facebook chat
I think it will show we cared about him and his contributions, hopefully not nagging. I'm not saying he will come back. But even if chooses to quit, I still think we should make a farewell collab....even if its not encouraging him to come back. He deserves it
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Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 04:29:14QUOTE (Kirby @ Jun 19 2010, 12:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I second the collab. make a collab with all "minwoo-style" combos, and minwoo mods. But what i don't know is if we should make it a farewell collab or a please come back collab?
EDIT: the farewell may persuade him to come come back, so I guess they serve the same purpose?
for a collab like this, i dont think minwoo mods are really necessary... Not everyone has a minwoo SC/DC mod (infact, I don't)
As for music, I recommend a song by the singer Minwoo.
But the problem with a farewell collaboration is that some people don't care that minwoo is quitting. They'll just do a simple fs and shrug it off thinking it'll serve a purpose. And even if Minwoo sees this, there's also the possibility that he would just not care. It'll be like any top pen spinner that quit sometimes think "Oh cool you made a tribute for me, but I'm still not coming back" or something like that.
^I hope that makes sense? o.O -
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 04:32:57QUOTE (Wind @ Jun 18 2010, 11:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>for a collab like this, i dont think minwoo mods are really necessary... Not everyone has a minwoo SC/DC mod (infact, I don't)
As for music, I recommend a song by the singer Minwoo.
But the problem with a farewell collaboration is that some people don't care that minwoo is quitting. They'll just do a simple fs and shrug it off thinking it'll serve a purpose. And even if Minwoo sees this, there's also the possibility that he would just not care. It'll be like any top pen spinner that quit sometimes think "Oh cool you made a tribute for me, but I'm still not coming back" or something like that.
^I hope that makes sense? o.O
He probably won't come back. But I still think he would appreciate if we made a collab for him to show he was important to some of us. Leave pen spinning on a good note.
EDIT: About the "simple fs and shrug it off", this collab needs to be art
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Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 04:45:52
Instead of lamenting the loss of a great spinner, why don't we look forward to someone new stepping up and making an impact?
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Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 05:58:23QUOTE (JC @ Jun 19 2010, 12:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>lol, encourage him to come back..? well, i'm sure he's thought it through very carefully already when he was deciding to quit PS
and while i don't know how close you are to minwoo.. but i doubt that you can convince him to join because you want him to say (since nobody else here seems to want to encourage minwoo to change his mind with you)
i haven't made any major contributions to PS like minwoo has, but if I were to quit and people were nagging (or encouraging, whatever word you choose is fine) me to come back, i'd only get more annoyed and want to avoid everyone more -.-'' guess you can hope minwoo's not like that though
i dont think he wud come back
he traded/ sold most of his pens to my knowledge
all his gpc comssa are gone and dr M&M -
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 07:31:33QUOTE (Milk @ Jun 19 2010, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Instead of lamenting the loss of a great spinner, why don't we look forward to someone new stepping up and making an impact?
or else, you reflect on the huge impact that minwoo has had, rather than the unknown impact he would have made
its like any sport, sometimes players will quit/retire for a number of reasons, there is no need to be quite that upset
spinners will come, spinners will go, thats life i guess -
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 08:09:31
i think the best thing to do would be to get minwoo goodluck with the future collab, with little comments hoping that he will come back but will not be the main focus. We must be "alright" with him leaving, we should not be sad. We should be like "thanks for the contributions, goodluck with the future, but pop in and surprise us maybe ok?"
We' re going to have to make this international, and i encourage the use of minwoo mods, minwoo like hand gestures, minwoo like combos, pink and skyblue kt's, etc. We need to show that he left something. Its not just going to be a collab with combos. The combo's should be relatively short...7- 10 seconds long. But i always want spinners who are close to minwoo to actually talk in the video like
"hey minwoo...goodluck ..dont know whats happened but really hope you come back".
probably several gpc people, eriror, peem, tek people who i know have met minwoo personallyl or have interacted with... and....i will try to get ayatori his spinner idol to also have a word.
=================================
and seven i dont think quit, but he is taking a break... In his last video he said "bye bye for now.." surely "for now" means he intends to come back in the future probs busy with exams high school etc.
..does anyone know what happened to fratleym? D: -
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 09:12:01
lol it's his choice..why dont you want other psers to come back? ayatori, kkkentei, michael, etc. old pro psers...lol and yes i do think pen spinning is a good hobby but it is really a waste of time lol, if someone here is a valedictorian / suma cumlaude then ill take back my words of saying that ps is a waste of time
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Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 11:49:21
Clyde, i've got excellent grades. Top 2 last yr. Top 1 2 yrs before. I pen spin. :]]
Neo, gee i totally love the idea, but perhaps it really is best to let go. This collab, i don't have my full confidence, but i hope it pushes through. -
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 12:24:08
dont try to pull him back. its still his choice in the end, we should be happy that he has contributed so much to the PS scene
i'd rather go with : thank you minwoo, or good luck minwoo , rather than goodbye minwoo (sounds so sad omg like a funeral)
maybe with that he'll appreciate all his fans around him and come back =) reverse psychology people. if he wants to quit , so be it.
probably for the collab, filtering must be strict and no crap combos, and definitely, minwoo style music (like the stuff in Mrizing and M Theory ), minwoo style editing (yosky can do the sidebar thingy ), minwoo style spinning (eg - twister PSH) -
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 13:16:30QUOTE (Clyde @ Jun 19 2010, 04:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>lol it's his choice..why dont you want other psers to come back? ayatori, kkkentei, michael, etc. old pro psers...lol and yes i do think pen spinning is a good hobby but it is really a waste of time lol, if someone here is a valedictorian / suma cumlaude then ill take back my words of saying that ps is a waste of time
bc ive already justified minwoo is someone who has contributed so much. And he is leaving so abrutbtly , majority of the pen spinning world dont even know he wants to quit. He just says "hey i quit" thats it? come on.
Also, like i said if you say "pen spinning is a waste of time" i can justify "tennis is a waste of time". Whats teh point in in tennis? You hit a ball with a stick wow. It was originally for fun, entertainment in the same way pen spinning is. But since people have stuck with it, it has grown "socially acceptable" and now people can make careers out of it. this is actually ironic bc minwoo is one o fhte few people who have actually made money from pen spinning. The existance and point of pen spinning is the same as the point for any hobby, sport, dance etc...for pleasure and entertainment and so i know it has a point.
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Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 13:58:48
well ive seen collabs for dumber reasons... like the b-day of some random SNSD member... at least minwoo will actually see this if u make it
tho hes not coming back unloess he wants to, theres not much u can do to convince him... say please?
i mean... if hes sick of it, out of ides, out of motivation and just cbf going any more then let him, dont nag him or he wont look back at ps and see quite so much good memories -
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 14:00:04QUOTE (neoknux_009メMT @ Jun 19 2010, 09:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>bc ive already justified minwoo is someone who has contributed so much. And he is leaving so abrutbtly , majority of the pen spinning world dont even know he wants to quit. He just says "hey i quit" thats it? come on.
Also, like i said if you say "pen spinning is a waste of time" i can justify "tennis is a waste of time". Whats teh point in in tennis? You hit a ball with a stick wow. It was originally for fun, entertainment in the same way pen spinning is. But since people have stuck with it, it has grown "socially acceptable" and now people can make careers out of it. this is actually ironic bc minwoo is one o fhte few people who have actually made money from pen spinning. The existance and point of pen spinning is the same as the point for any hobby, sport, dance etc...for pleasure and entertainment and so i know it has a point.
Well, tennis/other sports are forms of exercise while also serving the purpose of being entertainment. Entertainment aside, I think we can all agree that exercise is good? I don't think I need to explain that... Soo, you can't compare pen spinning to tennis. You can compare pen spinning to XCM or rubix cubing though, if you want. But then people can say...oh, you're just flipping cards around, or you're just using the same few algorithms everyone else memorized to solve that.. with no exercise benefit on top of the entertainment aspect.
But then okay, you can then say, what about starcraft...there are people who make up to $100,000 salaries off of that (if I remember correctly)... that's not exercise, that's just video games, but yet you can make so much money from doing that. Well, then okay, perhaps pen spinning one day will reach the point where people will have live battles against each other in these grand stadiums with high speed cameras, and those pros will make just as much as starcraft players do. Waste of time then..? No, of course not. (at the moment though, it has no real benefits aside from entertainment like solving rubix cubes... so to some extent right now, clyde's right)
So let's skip to the future where there are pros making $100,000 a year from pen spinning. There'll still be pros that quit, retire, get bored of PS, leave, find something else, etc... People leave for a variety of reasons, all of which are legitimate (even if you dont think so, or you're not satisfied with their reason) since the end result in their head is.. they just dont' want to spin anymore.
But as someone said, people come and go, that's just how it is. Minwoo came, made his contribution, and now he's leaving. Perhaps he's just outta ideas to contribute.. perhaps he was so into breakdancing that pen spinning's took a back seat, but now he's sure that he doesn't want to spin at all anymore.. There'll be more people to make even bigger contributions to PS to build on top of his work later on, they'll come.
Now since this is becoming a huge post anyway... let's assume that you do somehow manage to convince Minwoo to come back. I highly doubt he has motivation left to help PS more, especially since he was just on the brink of quitting...probably coming back to just hang around I guess? Or give PS another chance? I have no idea why he would... but whatever. It's not like he'll bring too many new things to the table.. all the stuff he brought to PS has already been brought, and those will stay. It's not like he's going to delete everything he's ever done -- all that stuff will still be here for generations of spinners to come and be inspired by. THAT is the Minwoo that matters, it doesn't matter if you bring him back or not. Again, it jsut all comes down to, leaving him alone and respecting his decision to leave and move on, and look forward to new spinners and encourage thosee spinners to come up with new ideas and become as great as Minwoo. -
Date: Sat, Jun 19 2010 14:54:33
Dude, you're making a huge thing out of itm and it's completely unnecessary. want to make him a farewell collab? go ahead, be my guest. But countless "pro spinners" have retired, and will retire. it doesn't matter if it's a waste or time or not- it's a matter of fun, and if he's quitting, I'd guess he's just not enjoying it as he used to (or he's quitting for any other reason, doesn't matter)
You're being all "how can you not care that's he's quitting"- it's his choice. he's a great spinner and contributed a lot, BUT HE'S JUST A GUY LIKE ALL OF US. if he wants to leave, let him, no need to chase him around, hold his legs and beg him to return.
Do I want him to keep spinning? of course, he's a great spinner, with lots of creative ideas, but I won't start chasing him around and begging him to return. -
Date: Sun, Jun 20 2010 02:06:20QUOTE (JC @ Jun 19 2010, 10:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>it doesn't matter if you bring him back or not
of course it does. You say that he wont bring new stuff to the table? what? are you saying minwoo has reached his limit ? i dont think so. it matters at to different levels among different spinners. Minwoo had a unique pen spirit , his style is copyable, but it was his attitude that holds a place in the pen spinning world imo. True pen spinning will live on without him, but im sure it will be better place with him.QUOTE (JC @ Jun 19 2010, 10:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>let's assume that you do somehow manage to convince Minwoo to come back. I highly doubt he has motivation left to help PS more
The point here is that we try rather than sit here and be like
"oh minwoo left...thast a shame oh well lets not do anything to try and get him back since well its his chioce therefore since he decided he has permanantly decided and theres no hope".
That attitude sucks. My attitude trying topoint here is
"minwoo left...but wait perhaps we can bring him back so lets try our best and what happens happens and at least we tried"QUOTE (Resonance @ Jun 19 2010, 10:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Dude, you're making a huge thing out of itm and it's completely unnecessary. want to make him a farewell collab? go ahead, be my guest. But countless "pro spinners" have retired, and will retire
thats my concern. There are countless pen spinners who keep quiting, and im quite frankly tired of pro spinners quiting. Im taking a stand now and minwoo just happens to be a turning point.
"but I won't start chasing him around and begging him to return"
ive already justified in my first post that i wont be doing that. Im not "chasing" him, i havent even spoken to minwoo after his message and ive clarified everyone not to nag or beg minwoo to come back. but perhaps there is a formal stuctured way in encouraging minwoo to keep spinning. -
Date: Sun, Jun 20 2010 03:00:58QUOTE (SPRiNGFiELD @ Jun 18 2010, 11:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>WHATTT!!!
ok first we lost seven (idk if its a permanant loss or temporary break, but judging by what he says, hes not gonna come back)
now we lose minwoo.
minwoo is a source of inspiration to many of us (including me) and the hardcore edition (twister PSH). yea losing him is a sad thing. its still his choice in the end, maybe all we could do is do a "goodbye minwoo" collab or something
seven is well and alive. watch some of the recent jeb collabs. you'll find him.
my point is let him choose his own path. there's a reason behind ones actions. unless he decided to quit pen spinning for no reason which will most likely result in him coming back. but we shouldn't expect any result of trying to bring someone back into pen spinning if they have clear reason and quit. -
Date: Sun, Jun 20 2010 03:11:32QUOTE (neoknux_009メMT @ Jun 18 2010, 08:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>1. Wasting time?
There is no justification for that. I could use the same logic for bboying, tennis, hockey..its all for fun
and entertainment.
2. Flipping around pens?
wow your a pen spinner ... pen spinning is more than flipping around pens. its an art man.
1. Whether it's a waste of time or not is all in the eye of the beholder.
2. Exactly, this illustrates my point, if you see it from minwoo's point of view, it's really just flipping around pens, otherwise he definitely wouldn't quit.
1+2: Minwoo has lost interest in pen spinning, therefore in his eyes pen spinning is a complete waste of time. This art called pen spinning bores him now.
In conclusion, leave him alone. -
Date: Sun, Jun 20 2010 03:28:21QUOTE (XYZaki @ Jun 19 2010, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>2. Exactly, this illustrates my point, if you see it from minwoo's point of view, it's really just flipping around pens, otherwise he definitely wouldn't quit.
In conclusion, leave him alone.
Well using ur own logic you should quit urself. I can justify that bboying is just waving your arms and legs around. so if i tell that to minwoo will he quit bboying? no. But using ur own logic i can justifiy if we can convince pen spinnnin is still interesting, then we can bring minwoo back.
In conclusion you havent tried at all yet.
You logic is "bc minwoo quit and decided that on himself, we can never ever ever ever bring him back. There is an absolute 0% chance of getting him back. So why bother? Give up"
We cannot calculate exactly the chances of bringing minwoo back, but im certain its greater than 0% hence im going to try. If i fail wow... Well minwoo has left anyway, so we wouldnt really lose anything.
Some may argue at this point encouraging to come back will just make it worse. However, i havent gone spastic and went to minwoo saying"minwoo i love u please please pleas comeback or ill die" . That WILL make it worse. Like i said havnt even spoken to minwoo since his message. Im tyring to find a formal, non intruding way to do this.
You can leave him alone. but whether people decide to help me or not doesnt matter im pushing with the video by myself if i need to. -
Date: Sun, Jun 20 2010 17:54:05QUOTE (neoknux_009メMT @ Jun 19 2010, 08:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Well using ur own logic you should quit urself. I can justify that bboying is just waving your arms and legs around. so if i tell that to minwoo will he quit bboying? no. But using ur own logic i can justifiy if we can convince pen spinnnin is still interesting, then we can bring minwoo back.
In conclusion you havent tried at all yet.
My logic doesn't involve convincing anyone anything, because it's all based on a person's own opinions and not letting anyone influence them.
In conclusion, get your genitalia out of Minwoo and let him quit because his style sucked to be honest. -
Date: Sun, Jun 20 2010 18:50:12
Break dancing, eh? I don't know how much this would cost, but how about we hire the German mafia to break his legs?
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Date: Sun, Jun 20 2010 19:24:52QUOTE (neoknux_009メMT @ Jun 19 2010, 10:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>of course it does. You say that he wont bring new stuff to the table? what? are you saying minwoo has reached his limit ? i dont think so. it matters at to different levels among different spinners. Minwoo had a unique pen spirit , his style is copyable, but it was his attitude that holds a place in the pen spinning world imo. True pen spinning will live on without him, but im sure it will be better place with him.
I'm saying he wont' want to bring new things to the table... or won't want to try cause he's lost that motivation. But by all means, if you can bring him back and make him bring out more new material, go ahead... lolQUOTE (neoknux_009メMT @ Jun 19 2010, 10:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The point here is that we try rather than sit here and be like
"oh minwoo left...thast a shame oh well lets not do anything to try and get him back since well its his chioce therefore since he decided he has permanantly decided and theres no hope".
That attitude sucks. My attitude trying topoint here is
"minwoo left...but wait perhaps we can bring him back so lets try our best and what happens happens and at least we tried"
I don't think that people like you and I are in any position to suggest that he come back to pen spinning though... he WANTS to leave, and I think we should let him do what he wants. If he was leaving for any other reason aside from wanting to leave himself, I'd help him try to come back to PS too.QUOTE (neoknux_009メMT @ Jun 19 2010, 10:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>thats my concern. There are countless pen spinners who keep quiting, and im quite frankly tired of pro spinners quiting. Im taking a stand now and minwoo just happens to be a turning point.
"but I won't start chasing him around and begging him to return"
ive already justified in my first post that i wont be doing that. Im not "chasing" him, i havent even spoken to minwoo after his message and ive clarified everyone not to nag or beg minwoo to come back. but perhaps there is a formal stuctured way in encouraging minwoo to keep spinning.
wow, you think you can make all these pros/future pros not quit because you don't want them to? although you're saying, you're going to try to encourage them to come back and even if it doesn't work, at least you tried.... that's the ultimate goal, no? to get all the ones you dont' want to quit to come back --- that's just selfish
you're not using the words "please please please come back", but that's essentially what your message sounds like.. you're just giving it a formal cover up and trying to hide that fact by making it seem like a gentle encouragement
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Point is, he wants to leave. You think pen spinning is losing something by losing him, but let the guy do what he wants with his life and stop discouraging him from doing his other things (by encouraging him to do PS and spend time towards that) -- it's not like he's forever tied to pen spinning just because he's made contributions to PS. -
Date: Sun, Jun 20 2010 19:43:17
Penspinning's been pretty slow around USBP (imo) and who really didn't see this coming?
some really great psers have retired over the years but they always come back now and then =P. You can contribute in Minwoo, or any other "pro's" by sticking around and helping make UPSB a better place.
I agree that Pro's in their position have a certain obligation to psing and it'd be nice if they all saw psing through like... Kam... Oh well, sad to see Minwoo leave. -
Date: Sun, Jun 20 2010 20:45:16
too bad, minwoo is an excellent spinner, but i never lament over the departure of spinners, ppl come and go quite fast
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Date: Mon, Jun 21 2010 04:28:17QUOTE (Zombo @ Jun 21 2010, 06:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>too bad, minwoo is an excellent spinner, but i never lament over the departure of spinners, ppl come and go quite fast
except for zombo & eriror =]
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Date: Mon, Jun 21 2010 05:20:17
Once a spinner, always a spinner.
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Date: Mon, Jun 21 2010 08:24:58QUOTE (XYZaki @ Jun 20 2010, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>My logic doesn't involve convincing anyone anything, because it's all based on a person's own opinions and not letting anyone influence them.
peoples opinions are altered by others everyday. Debating, in court, with ur friends etc.
If there is anyone on this board that has NEVER been influenced by others to do something new or do something again that resulted in something postiive then please raise ur hand.
Nothing is wrong with trying to influence others as long as its not forcing them to go over the top. You act like
minwoo's been harrassed already. but we havent even done anything.
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And wow u hated minwoo's style XYZaki. Because YOU hated his style your trying to justify that its ok that he leaves and you should let him quit.
Conversely , many many many (ill take a vote on UPSB if yuo want) other spinners including myself LIKE minwoo's style, so perhaps its NOT ok that he is quitting and we should not let him quit.QUOTE (JC @ Jun 20 2010, 03:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I don't think that people like you and I are in any position to suggest that he come back to pen spinning though... he WANTS to leave, and I think we should let him do what he wants. If he was leaving for any other reason aside from wanting to leave himself, I'd help him try to come back to PS too.
Im inclined to believe he wants to leave because we have lost interest. And i think we as pen spinners ourselves ARE in a position to encourage that he keeps spinning. We have watched him from way long ago and we've wathced him matured.
He has inspired many to pen spin, and or keep spinning the pen. I think we owe him AT LEAST one favor in a real collaboration of trying to show him what we've learned , and how he has inspired us, and how we hope that maybe he will come back.QUOTE (JC @ Jun 20 2010, 03:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>wow, you think you can make all these pros/future pros not quit because you don't want them to? although you're saying, you're going to try to encourage them to come back and even if it doesn't work, at least you tried.... that's the ultimate goal, no? to get all the ones you dont' want to quit to come back --- that's just selfish
you're not using the words "please please please come back", but that's essentially what your message sounds like.. you're just giving it a formal cover up and trying to hide that fact by making it seem like a gentle encouragement
I woudlnt label any of my intentions selfish JC. Firstly i think everyone (except XYZAKi who hates minwoo's style) wants minwoo to keep spinning, including yourself. But then perhaps we could label UPSB as a whole selfish.
A pen spinner on a bus see's another boy not pen spinning. He also see's many others on the bus not pen spinning. He see's 5 people who used to pen spin, but have stopped recently. (he does not know why, they just stopped/lost interest). This pen spinning boy has learned lots of new tricks that he is sure to inspire everyone to perhaps pick up a pen.
He wants to show them and ask them if they would like to pen spin but he does not dare show anyone. He does not ask any of the others to try becauuse wanting them to try/encouraging them to try again is too selfish.
disagree.
Also JC, i really really wish i could seem less whinney. I can live without minwoo easy, but that does not mean it does not bother me. If i dont bring up a strong stand point now everyone will just forget and wont bother.
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Date: Mon, Jun 21 2010 09:51:02QUOTE (neoknux_009メMT @ Jun 21 2010, 04:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Im inclined to believe he wants to leave because we have lost interest. And i think we as pen spinners ourselves ARE in a position to encourage that he keeps spinning. We have watched him from way long ago and we've wathced him matured.
I disagree... I think he wants to leave because he lost interest... but I guess that's something we can't really confirm wihtout asking minwoo himself...
And so what if you've watched him mature as a fellow pen spinner..? Are you his parent or something? I don't think you or I are obligated as pen spinners to encourage him to keep spinning.. the only obligation I feel we have is to support fellow pen spinners in the path they decide to takeQUOTE (neoknux_009メMT @ Jun 21 2010, 04:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>He has inspired many to pen spin, and or keep spinning the pen. I think we owe him AT LEAST one favor in a real collaboration of trying to show him what we've learned , and how he has inspired us, and how we hope that maybe he will come back.
go ahead.... never said anything about collaboration just as a thanks was wrongQUOTE (neoknux_009メMT @ Jun 21 2010, 04:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I woudlnt label any of my intentions selfish JC. Firstly i think everyone (except XYZAKi who hates minwoo's style) wants minwoo to keep spinning, including yourself. But then perhaps we could label UPSB as a whole selfish.
nah... i'm with zombo on this one, i don't really care either way whether or not he spins.. it's up to him
people come and go; if you were to ask me whether or i'd prefer it if he keeps spinning or if he quit... i don't mind either way
seven's my favorite spinner..but i heard we went on a break (perhaps quitting? dunno).. but even if he quit, i'd probably be perfectly fine with it.... seven's made many contributions to PS too, but so what? there will be more people to come and make brand new ideas and further PS even more... it doesn't have to be seven, it doesn't have to be minwoo
do I want pen spinning to lose people like them? well, my answer's not a yes, i want them to leave...., or a no, i want them to stay, cause spinners come and go like a cycle
people join, get pro, leave, while new people join and get pro..and then they leave too
rarely do you see spinners stay around for 10+ years like zombo and kam--but i don't think you can expect everyone (or everyone good..) to be like them, i've become busy with school and life, and i found it hard to find time to spin anymore.. it's just how the cycle goes; people usually only stay 5-6 years tops (most is probably 3-4 yrs)QUOTE (neoknux_009メMT @ Jun 21 2010, 04:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>A pen spinner on a bus see's another boy not pen spinning. He also see's many others on the bus not pen spinning. He see's 5 people who used to pen spin, but have stopped recently. (he does not know why, they just stopped/lost interest). This pen spinning boy has learned lots of new tricks that he is sure to inspire everyone to perhaps pick up a pen.
He wants to show them and ask them if they would like to pen spin but he does not dare show anyone. He does not ask any of the others to try becauuse wanting them to try/encouraging them to try again is too selfish.
disagree.
huh? you're saying you disagree with the fact that it's selfish to ask other people to spin? ehh.. i've never considered asking other people to spin... if they want to spin because they like how i can do a TA harmonic, they'll ask me, and i'll be glad to teach them, but if they don't show interest themselves, i would never be like, hey, wanna learn a trick? not that it's selfish to ask if someone wants to learn a trick o.0... but that's just kinda..weird
i guess it's kinda selfish if it gets to the point where you're like, want to learn this too? and oh, go and visit upsb? you can make an account too.. oh, wanna join some collabs? -- if they didn't have the initial interest, then yes, to that extent, that seems selfish to me to drag them into pen spinning for my own desire to want more people to get into PS
if they get really pro and all, and are really happy about the outcome...it's fine and all, but that initial chain of acts is selfish still imoQUOTE (neoknux_009メMT @ Jun 21 2010, 04:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Also JC, i really really wish i could seem less whinney. I can live without minwoo easy, but that does not mean it does not bother me. If i dont bring up a strong stand point now everyone will just forget and wont bother.
still never got the point why we should... he's just another spinner who's decided to leave for his own personal reasons -.-'' never got why it's so bad... PS is losing someone important? sure, he's a good spinner and all... but there are intermediate spinners now maturing to be pro and act as the new inspiration for future spinners --and i think i might've said this earlier, but it's not like minwoo's vids that have inspired many already will disappear.. they'll still be on youtube to inspire people too on top of the new generation of the cycle to inspire
but i've never thought it was our job to inspire people to PS (if we do along the line, great)... as a pen spinner, i just spin for my own enjoyment of watching myself do cool stuff...
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Date: Mon, Jun 21 2010 09:54:49
Neoknux thats what everyone is doing. There are plenty fresh faces out there who can bring plenty to penspinning. Jeez let a man make his own decisions. Just let him go but you dont have to forget him. Use what he's given already and give this board a break from all this talk. I don't know if I was quitting penspinning or even others I wouldnt want others to freak out about it. Hell when Sangara quit or stopped coming on our board I didn't flip out and make some sort of revival thread, and Sangara brought alot to the community. He was a major breakdown person and also pushed many other people to keep improving. Even our own Eriror and him had a 34 shadow rev cont contest. Anyways I'm getting off topic but let it go man, he'll be back if he damn well pleases. I don't think a bunch of kids and teenagers are going to be able to change his mind anyways.
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Date: Mon, Jun 21 2010 11:30:07QUOTE (neoknux_009メMT @ Jun 19 2010, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>and....i will try to get ayatori his spinner idol to also have a word.
Good luck. I tried the same about 1 year ago at the German Offline Meeting 2. I had ayatoris clip for (Thumb)Around the World and thought that minwoo would maybe join because of him. Still, he rejected me.
(Maybe there was some personal dislike involved. I hope not.)
Also - good luck getting in contact with ayatori lol.
Regarding the discussion: Has minwoo already seen this topic? -
Date: Mon, Jun 21 2010 15:26:05QUOTE (taichi1082 @ Jun 21 2010, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Regarding the discussion: Has minwoo already seen this topic?
probably yes, since his last activity was today
about the topic, I do not know why he quit, but I think because he was bored..
the point pen spinning is a game, and eventually everyone would be bored with the game, IMO.
and I agreed with some said let him go, although no one knows whether he will return or not.. -
Date: Mon, Jun 21 2010 15:48:43
lol wtf is all this fanboyism shit
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Date: Mon, Jun 21 2010 16:00:49
people, i think it's just not a good thing trying to get someone back like some of you do...
i know minwoo, but i don't really know henry. but the fact is, that henry > minwoo. so, it's very obvious that there are more important things for him than penspinning. and i think nearly everybody knows these "phases". you just have less time, the weather is fine and you have no rl-friends who really do penspinning.
so, a lot of people just lose interest because of reasons like these (especially if you are a "pro" you need time to keep the standart).
and sometimes, one of the "big ones" comes into such a phase. and now everybody tries to avoid that, because he is such a great penspinner and maybe "needed". but you shouldn't treat penspinniners like machines or goods. they are humans. and humans are changing. don't try to force someone not to change because then you destroy something. at least you would destroy the honorable leaving.
you just have to wait. you can wait and hope that in maybe 1 year he finds his pen behind his heater and just thinks: "OMFG, penspinning. NICE".
in the end it's also a bit exaggerated... i mean: minwoo is the first person who get's such a topic! nearly nobody tried to convince taeryong, cloud traveller, leo, or others to stay...
and come on...
you know these fact since 2/3 weeks. just WAIT. eriror also had some times in which he was inactive and said that he will "stop" or something like that. i know, somehow minwoo made himself kinda "fashion star" in the ps-world
but nevertheless he is just a young boy who has a crazy hobby.
and i just wonder what minwoo will think, when he reads the thread oO
just my 2 cents.
stuhl
ps: even i don't do so much penspinning these times. because i fell in love with the rubiks cube xD. so, life's always changing. hobbies are changing. minds are changing. the wind is changing. and so on... -
Date: Mon, Jun 21 2010 17:09:06
stuhl I've tried saying the same thing ...
These people think giving him space is "not doing anything" and "not caring"
The fact is, the best thing to do in this case is leave him alone to come back on his own if he's going to come back he will -
Date: Mon, Jun 21 2010 20:30:08QUOTE (strat1227 @ Jun 21 2010, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>stuhl I've tried saying the same thing ...
These people think giving him space is "not doing anything" and "not caring"
The fact is, the best thing to do in this case is leave him alone to come back on his own if he's going to come back he will
No! We must make others bend to our will and force them to entertain the specific audience, that is how mob mentality works! [/sarcasm] -
Date: Tue, Jun 22 2010 13:12:13
1. I am fully aware minwoo has his choice. I have exagerated this coutnless times again and again.
-If this initiative results in minwoo not coming back, then i will leave him alone. I have no intention of asking a 2nd or third/continue with this initiative bc clearly at that point i consider it nagging and being forceful. If minwoo ultimaley wants to leave then he can leave. My case is that he is bored/losing interest. I still find no fault in trying to give him interset again once, and i will emphasize again it his choice in the end. When a commercial show in the movies do you turn ur face away? No you let them talk to you first and if you like the product then you will buy it, if not then u wont. Its ur choice, im aware of that.
Also, if minwoo were to come back perhaps the people would call me manipulative and forcefull selfish etc.
however this is only possible in the ideal case, that minwoo would come back where he wanted to and he foudn interest again (if that were the initial problem) and if he were happy to comeback. If minwoo is convinced to come back and is happy to do so then i am not seflish because in this case minwoo is also satisfied.
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true giving him space in theory is a good method. By letting him know we are ok with him leaving and not caring then perhaps this will make him subconciously come back.
But this method has failed to successfully work consistantly in the past.
What usually happens when a spinner quits? well usually they get some spam mail asking for themt come back and tahts it. At this point we use the leave alone method.
so we've used this method for spinners like
kth, ryo, ps728 ( who even claimed hed be comming back..but clealy this didnt happen) etc etc. Pesp, robert, leon, etc.
Where there was never a true organized initiative in trying to get that person come back.
They rarely ever come back. If it is its just a drop by to say hello and never in that full fire again. And that is of course ok.
Also this initiative i have no intention of spamming it with reasons for minwoo to come back. I dont wnat to have a logic tower forced on minwoo. Im leaning more towards a gratitude collab than a comeback collab. -
Date: Tue, Jun 22 2010 17:56:46
personally think that its sad that he left, but on the other hand, doesnt it allow other penspinners the opportunity to "shine"? ah well...w/e, its sad that hes gone, but there really isnt much we can do about it...