UPSB v3

Advanced Tricks / Inverse Backaround

What's that ?

  1. karOlek1325
    Date: Thu, Jan 31 2008 20:54:27

    Is there trick like Inverse Backaround huh.gif ?I tried to do it, but I have no idea how it's possible.I asked Banz about it, he said that he knows how to do it, but he can't explain.Maybe he'll broadcast some videos on YouTube of it . wink.gif
    What do you think ? ph34r.gif
    How to do it ?

  2. Teatime
    Date: Thu, Jan 31 2008 21:00:33

    Is that possible? I don't think so since it goes around the hand, there is no "in" or "out"...

  3. Mats
    Date: Thu, Jan 31 2008 21:03:06

    Sure... I think Pentrixter has done an Inverse MiddleBak, or if not, he was close.

  4. Thewave
    Date: Thu, Jan 31 2008 21:05:05

    Mats, do you have a link?

  5. seihe
    Date: Thu, Jan 31 2008 21:29:36

    Karol wtf

    how ??
    how ??

    it's impossible lol

  6. grsbmd
    Date: Thu, Jan 31 2008 21:33:07

    It's possible, just hard. To do an inverse middlebak, hold your palm up, put the pen between 2 and 3, hold your middle finger up (actually up, since your palm is up), and initiate movement with hand motion. The pen should travel around the middle finger back to where it started.

  7. Jacobä
    Date: Mon, May 19 2008 19:50:13

    There aren't inverses for around tricks...

  8. Sfsr
    Date: Mon, May 19 2008 20:04:20

    There aren't Inverses for regular around tricks, but BackArounds? They're supposed to travel around the back of the hand, so why wouldn't making them travel "around" the palm instead work.

  9. Pudels Kern
    Date: Mon, May 19 2008 23:22:12

    I don't want to explain everything so I made a video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hslf2xMhA_Y


    The Inv Backaround looks really sweet but it will be hard to do it in a combo. Like the normal Bak spins on the back of the hand, the inverse version has to spin on the palm and the catch should be in writing position too (T12). I just caught them in 12 because it was too hard to get an extra half rotation to land it in T12.

    p.s. The Bak 1.5 34-P-12 was the first try tongue.gif

    Edit: Changed the video. Now with the right names

  10. Look Into the Sun
    Date: Tue, May 20 2008 00:09:28

    That is fucking badass! Never knew inverse baks existed! I've gotta learn it soon. I'm bookmarking that vid.

  11. mastah
    Date: Wed, May 21 2008 16:30:28

    Inverse backaround is when we doing backaround on palm up position smile.gif

  12. Jacobä
    Date: Thu, May 22 2008 00:38:24

    QUOTE (mastah @ May 21 2008, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Inverse backaround is when we doing backaround on palm up position smile.gif

    The inverse modifier is not about hand's position, it's about the way the pen travels. A korean bak just doesn't have an inverse while neobak and weissan both have.

  13. Look Into the Sun
    Date: Thu, May 22 2008 01:46:51

    QUOTE (Jacobä @ May 21 2008, 04:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    The inverse modifier is not about hand's position, it's about the way the pen travels. A korean bak just doesn't have an inverse while neobak and weissan both have.


    I'm guessing you didn't watch Pudel Kern's awesome vid?

  14. Jacobä
    Date: Thu, May 22 2008 02:01:46

    There is no koreanbak there =)
    Since KoreanBak 1.5 and Neobak are both topspins, they can be inversed. The regular kbak can't.

  15. Look Into the Sun
    Date: Thu, May 22 2008 02:10:48

    QUOTE (Jacobä @ May 21 2008, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    There is no koreanbak there =)
    Since KoreanBak 1.5 and Neobak are both topspins, they can be inversed. The regular kbak can't.


    So what would you call a korean bak done palm up as Pudel did?

  16. scyros
    Date: Thu, May 22 2008 03:13:12

    i agree, those are inverse baks, if it were possible to do an inverse bak palm down, we would, however there is this thing called gravity...it kinda f's that one up. so the trick must be done palm up. awesome stuff pudels.

  17. Duckrus
    Date: Thu, May 22 2008 03:32:16

    QUOTE (Jacobä @ May 21 2008, 06:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    There is no koreanbak there =)
    Since KoreanBak 1.5 and Neobak are both topspins, they can be inversed. The regular kbak can't.


    since when do korean baks have to be 1.5 spins?

  18. Jacobä
    Date: Thu, May 22 2008 10:01:52

    QUOTE (Look Into the Sun @ May 22 2008, 12:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    So what would you call a korean bak done palm up as Pudel did?

    (Palm down) Korean BackAround


    QUOTE (Duckrus @ May 22 2008, 01:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    since when do korean baks have to be 1.5 spins?

    Korean Bak = around trick
    Korean Bak 1.5+ = around trick with top spin

  19. Pudels Kern
    Date: Thu, May 22 2008 10:24:30

    QUOTE (Jacobä @ May 22 2008, 12:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    (Palm down) Korean BackAround

    I guess that should be (Palm Up) Korean Backaround wink.gif

    About the inverse Korean Bak: I have to agree that there can't be an inverse korean Bak if you see no difference between the kBak and a fl Around rev. If you don't agree here is the solution: Don't use the term "korean Bak" and call the trick fingerless Around rev! I just made the video to show how the real inv Backound is performed compared to similar tricks and that's what this topic is about.

  20. mastah
    Date: Thu, May 22 2008 13:35:24

    Other question:
    Is neoback 12-12 (korean?) same as shadow still revers?

  21. Lelouch
    Date: Thu, May 22 2008 14:01:45

    I think a neobak = fingerless shadow reverse.

  22. sketching
    Date: Thu, May 22 2008 16:27:56

    Neobak does not equal Fingerless Shadow Reverse. FL Shadow Rev stays on the fingers, Neobak travels onto the back of the hand.

    @mastah: "Korean" Neobak shouldn't even be a name, because it is just FL Shadow Rev. Stay on topic, this thread is not about Neobackarounds.

    @Lelouch:
    Neobak (short for Neobackaround, not "Korean" Backaround) does not equal Fingerless Shadow Reverse. FL Shadow Rev stays on the fingers, Neobak travels onto the back of the hand.


    This is another example of why "Korean" Backaround is a bad name. Changing the orientation of the hand without changing any else that is significant shouldn't change the trick. I'll go back to my old standard: Thumbaround with a vertical-position hand is just a Thumbaround. As is Thumbaround with a palm-down orientation. As is Thumbaround with a palm-up orientation. Calling a Fingerless Fingeraround Reverse a "Korean" Backaround because the hand is palm-down leads to confusion when something like Inverse Backaround is talked about.

    Inverse Backaround (as Sfsr said above) has the pen traveling over the palm of the hand, it's palm-up simply because that's the only way to perform it. Doing something palm-up does not automatically make it an "Inverse" anything. This is why Inverse "Korean" Backaround does not work. "Korean" Backaround 12-12 is just a FL IA Rev. Regular Around tricks do not have Inverse variations because they don't have any kind of rotation strictly on the side of anything, they just travel around something. Inverse "Korean" Backaround 1.5 23-23 in the video should just be called Inverse Middlespin 1.5 23-23 (same kind of notation as Thumbspin, people) because the pen spins for 0.5 rotation on the inside of the finger instead of the outside.

  23. Pudels Kern
    Date: Thu, May 22 2008 19:55:12

    QUOTE (sketching @ May 22 2008, 06:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Inverse "Korean" Backaround 1.5 23-23 in the video should just be called Inverse Middlespin 1.5 23-23

    There is no "Inverse Korean Backaround 1.5" in my video. There are just Palm Up fingerless Reverse Arounds which I also called Inverse Korean Bak. I will change the nameing in my video und just call them fl Around revs.

    QUOTE
    Inverse Backaround (as Sfsr said above) has the pen traveling over the palm of the hand, it's palm-up simply because that's the only way to perform it. Doing something palm-up does not automatically make it an "Inverse" anything

    I don't understand that. Is the Inverse Backaround a legit variation or not?

  24. sketching
    Date: Thu, May 22 2008 21:39:30

    @Pudels Kern: sorry about that, I mis-remembered what I saw in your video. >_<

    I'm okay with Inv Bak, since it makes some sense. If the pen goes onto the palm of the hand instead of just going around the inside of the finger. It's like an extended path of the pen. Normal Baks go onto the back of the hand instead of just around a finger, Inv Baks go into the palm of the hand instead of just around the finger.

  25. taiwanrox8
    Date: Fri, May 23 2008 17:28:08

    If inverse baks are possible, then can someone show me a video of inverse bakfall?

  26. ToastyRage
    Date: Sat, May 24 2008 01:02:06

    Palm up bak?

  27. someone
    Date: Sat, May 24 2008 13:14:41

    A trick performed palm up doesn't mean it's inverse.

  28. ZaX
    Date: Sat, May 24 2008 14:19:55

    QUOTE (someone @ May 24 2008, 09:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    A trick performed palm up doesn't mean it's inverse.



    But the inv. backaround IS NOT a backaround performed palm down... it's a trick das spins like a inverse shadow on the palm/fingers the Inverse modifier expresses, that the pen doesnt spin (like backaround) at the back of the finger.

    Inverse describes where the pen "spins" that's all. The Position of the hand doesnt matter. A Thumb around performed palm down isnt a inverse ta...

  29. someone
    Date: Sat, May 24 2008 19:31:50

    That's what I was saying... a trick performed palm up doesn't mean it's inverse. I was replying to what toastyrage said.
    A bak with multiple spins is technically a Fingerless fingerspin reverse, so I guess there could be an inverse because it's a top spin.
    however I don't think a bak 1.0 has an inverse.

  30. Pudels Kern
    Date: Sat, May 24 2008 23:48:19

    I finally fixed my video. Now it shows the right names of the tricks. Click here to see the video. But just if you really want to

    QUOTE (Zax)
    it's a trick das spins like a inverse shadow on the palm/fingers

    lol mixing up german and english?("das"="that" in this context) But because the word refers to "trick" which is masculin as a german word, you should have said "a trick der..." teach.gif tongue.gif

    QUOTE (someone)
    however I don't think a bak 1.0 has an inverse

    A real Bak normal 1.0 should spin on the back of the hand or atleast on the base knuckle. You can't perform the trick in that way if you turn your hand palm up. So you have to invert the spin, thus doing an inverse version of the bak.

  31. sketching
    Date: Sun, May 25 2008 04:51:25

    QUOTE
    it's a trick das spins like a inverse shadow on the palm/fingers the Inverse modifier expresses, that the pen doesnt spin (like backaround) at the back of the finger.
    It would have to spin on the palm, not the fingers, otherwise you are doing a Fingerspin. Inverse Backaround would have to go around a finger, plus travel over the palm just as Backaround goes around a finger and travels over the back of the hand.

    QUOTE
    That's what I was saying... a trick performed palm up doesn't mean it's inverse. I was replying to what toastyrage said.
    A bak with multiple spins is technically a Fingerless fingerspin reverse, so I guess there could be an inverse because it's a top spin.
    however I don't think a bak 1.0 has an inverse.
    No, Backaround differs from Fingerarounds in that Fingerarounds only travel around a finger, Backarounds travel around more than just a finger. Inverse Backaround is possible, see my response to the first quote in the reply.

    QUOTE
    A real Bak normal 1.0 should spin on the back of the hand or atleast on the base knuckle. You can't perform the trick in that way if you turn your hand palm up. So you have to invert the spin, thus doing an inverse version of the bak.
    I'm not completely sure what's being said, but I'm guessing my first response works here too. tongue.gif You can do an Inverse Backaround with the hand in a vertical position as opposed to either palm-down/palm-up, the pen needs to travel along the palm of the hand during the second part of the trick, as opposed to the back of the hand during the first part of the trick.

  32. Pen Ninja
    Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 14:35:36

    REALLY old thread... but rule 5 says "Do not revive old threads unnecessarily"

    i think because i have more content to discuss its not worth making a new thread and losing the old discussion
    anyway...



    if its something completely different ill end up posting it in the "what am i doing" thread

    btw im talking inv korean bak

  33. Pudels Kern
    Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 15:07:52

    The first thing you wrote in the video is wrong. Ia rev and Fl Ia rev palm down (korean bak) have the same direction. The goes from 12 over the back of the index back to 12. The equation "reverse palm down = normal palm side" works only for charge and Sonic.
    When you do your "inv bak" in the video you change your hand from palm up to palm down however a normal bak/korean bak is done completely palm down (or a bit palm side dry.gif) so I would consider this "completely different".

  34. Pen Ninja
    Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 15:15:40

    same direction refers to linkage, tw sonic normal > ia normal dont link without direction change

    bak links to palm down reverse tricks
    ia rev links to palm side normal tricks

    direction isnt the same as path twisted sonic reverse and sonic reverse have same direction but not path

    shadow is done palm down, inverse shadow is done palm up... how are they not completely different?
    if the pen goes the right way, why does the hand matter? as mentioned earlier, tricks palm up arent inv tricks

  35. lindor
    Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 23:21:57

    Hi, I just want to add that inverse backaround is a bad name for "inverted backaround", a trick which does axist. During an inverted around the pen turn around the finger which is under it, for example inverted middlearound 12-12...

  36. Shadowserpant
    Date: Mon, Dec 29 2008 23:27:46

    idk what the arguement is here, but there is no inverse korean bak, because a korean bak is just an around...
    the idea behind the inverse weissan backaround is that a weissan backaround travels along the back of the hand
    therefore, an inverse would travel along the palm of the hand

  37. RagnarokメAM
    Date: Tue, Dec 30 2008 00:30:19

    +363 shadow Because is there an inverse around? if there is please show me

  38. Sanozucke
    Date: Tue, Dec 30 2008 03:38:29

    About Inverse Backaround... i think i saw it on Cir solo video (AREZERT video on Youtube 0:12 - 0:14) and its not palmdown...

  39. lindor
    Date: Tue, Dec 30 2008 19:54:18

    @ ragnarok : there are no inverse around, but there are inverted around.

  40. AwonW
    Date: Tue, Dec 30 2008 19:58:33

    QUOTE (lindor @ Dec 30 2008, 11:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    @ ragnarok : there are no inverse around, but there are inverted around.

    Wtf is an inverted around?

  41. lindor
    Date: Tue, Dec 30 2008 20:08:04

    hard to describe in english... I will try to make a video =) that's an old concept.

  42. Antonio Garcia
    Date: Sat, Jan 24 2009 10:44:06

    maybe inv bak . is done like inv shadow .. palm up

  43. Pen Ninja
    Date: Sat, Jan 24 2009 10:48:05

    QUOTE (Antonio Garcia @ Jan 24 2009, 06:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    maybe inv bak . is done like inv shadow .. palm up


    the thing that makes inverse shadow inverse is that the pen spins on the palm of the hand, if the pen did this palm down... somehow... it would still be inverse shadow

    the problem with inverse bak isnt that bak is done palm down, its that the pen doesnt just spin on one side of the finger

  44. Antonio Garcia
    Date: Sun, Jan 25 2009 06:34:52

    QUOTE (Pen Ninja @ Jan 24 2009, 06:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    the thing that makes inverse shadow inverse is that the pen spins on the palm of the hand, if the pen did this palm down... somehow... it would still be inverse shadow

    the problem with inverse bak isnt that bak is done palm down, its that the pen doesnt just spin on one side of the finger

    do you know how to do it?

  45. Shadowserpant
    Date: Sun, Jan 25 2009 06:51:39

    an inverse backaround is done palm up sleep(1).gif

  46. Outsmash
    Date: Sun, Jan 25 2009 08:27:19

    QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ Jan 25 2009, 12:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    an inverse backaround is done palm up sleep(1).gif


    That's stupid (If you mentioned w/ 1.0 Revolutions) . Palm poisitions can't define a trick.

    I think: Arounds with 1.0 Rotations cannot have inverses. More than 1.0 is possible.

  47. sangara
    Date: Sun, Jan 25 2009 08:30:39

    QUOTE (Pudels Kern @ May 19 2008, 03:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    I don't want to explain everything so I made a video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hslf2xMhA_Y


    The Inv Backaround looks really sweet but it will be hard to do it in a combo. Like the normal Bak spins on the back of the hand, the inverse version has to spin on the palm and the catch should be in writing position too (T12). I just caught them in 12 because it was too hard to get an extra half rotation to land it in T12.

    p.s. The Bak 1.5 34-P-12 was the first try tongue.gif

    Edit: Changed the video. Now with the right names



    Outsmash shut-up and start lurking.

  48. Shadowserpant
    Date: Sun, Jan 25 2009 08:34:11

    don't call me stupid
    your logic is obviously off, no amount of arounds will justify an inverse, you're obviously referring to spins
    there is an inverse backaround because the backaround is not just an around, it is supposed to travel along the back of the hand. therefore, the inverse backaround travels along the palm of the hand. it HAS to be done palm up, unless you want to do it in 0.5 seconds moving your hand at 30 mph to stop the pen from falling, as if you were doing a PALM UP SHADOW or PALM DOWN THUMBAROUND, both of which are tricks commonly defined by their palm positions (though they CAN difficultly be done in the opposite position)

  49. Outsmash
    Date: Sun, Jan 25 2009 11:32:49

    QUOTE (sangara @ Jan 25 2009, 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Outsmash shut-up and start lurking.


    EXACTLY What I said. 1.5 revolutions. I've seen that video before. Show me a video with 1.0 revolutions.

    @shadow: I get what you mean but if you were to hold the pen like pudel kern's video and do it palm up, then it would become an around. If that's not what you meant, sorry, I misunderstood you.

    And About pudel kern's vid: According to the way he held his pen (in the inv bak 1.5 12-12), I would say it was a "FL IA 1.5 12-12".

  50. Shadowserpant
    Date: Sun, Jan 25 2009 18:08:53

    uh, you said arounds with more than 1.0 rotations. that's called a multiple around, and is not what pudels kern did.
    and just because 1.5 is easier doesn't mean 1.0 is impossible. i cant do it, but if i must, ill trace the path of the pen, it's pretty simple

  51. lindor
    Date: Sun, Jan 25 2009 22:01:03

    the video does just present a charge reverse 12 => backaround reverse (palm down).
    Try to make what i'm describing, it is exactly the same...

    inverse backaround may exist, but it is exactly the same than a weissan backaround reverse palm up... so there is no reason to give it two name.

  52. Outsmash
    Date: Mon, Jan 26 2009 03:23:36

    QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ Jan 25 2009, 11:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    uh, you said arounds with more than 1.0 rotations. that's called a multiple around, and is not what pudels kern did.
    and just because 1.5 is easier doesn't mean 1.0 is impossible. i cant do it, but if i must, ill trace the path of the pen, it's pretty simple


    Oops sorry.. I meant spins and yea it'd be nice if you could do that.

    @lindor: That's what I'm trying to say.. HE did an FL around 1.5. An FL BAckaround 1.5 would complete the back and when it reaches the palm side, would do 0.5 revolutions.