UPSB v3

Philosophy / Pen Mod Aesthetics and Design

Eso
Date: Mon, Feb 25 2008 16:26:59

I've noticed that a lot of modders use different grips when making a MX, due to a lack of resources. Sometimes I see G2 grips used, or Profile grips, or some no name grip. However, I always wondered why is it the general consensus that a HGG grip is always better looking. Is it because that's how it was done first or is there more than meets the eye?

I think it's because the HGG grip is better streamlined with the RSVP's barrel. It doesn't look bulky or obstructive. The pits on the grip are a regular pattern and do not have any irregular markings. The HGG grip is also very unassuming, meaning there's no protruding ribs or otherwise flashy looking contours. It's simple, yet effective in giving the overall mod a clean look.
When you start using other grips, you lose this sleek look and it starts to look tacky. It is by no fault of the modder that it looks tacky. It just does. Profile grips are probably the next best thing, IMO, since the length is appropriate and has a regular pattern on the surface. Still, it has bulges which rise above the barrel, giving it a non uniformed look. On the other hand, Profiles are best when it comes to double capped mods of today. The caps are generally larger in circumference and the grips can stretch accordingly to size. Again, the regular pattern gives it a very clean look and if the cuts are clean, all the better.

The reason I bring this up is to see if anyone else has noticed this. I think it's somewhat "unfair" to a lot of the mods out there because they use unconventional grips, tips, etc. I suppose this all ties back in to the "who's a better modder" concept. I just wish there were more pens with greater adaptability in terms of modding.

Any other things you guys might have noticed? Discuss.
CPC
Date: Mon, Feb 25 2008 17:24:34

I think there are other mods out there now that offer the same adaptability in terms of modding such as the comssa with different caps, grips and stickers. I have also seem many variations of kt's.

I think that the mods that currently exist can be customized almost as much as mx's. But since the mx is one of the most popular mods more people customize them and post pics of there customizations. This gives people ideas and concepts that they can use to customize there mx.

The popularity seems to make the mx seem more customizable than other pens but in reality each mod could problably have as many variations as the mx if it had the same popularity.
afterplace
Date: Mon, Feb 25 2008 17:39:50

Honestly, when I first learned about PS and stuff about it, I got turned off by the "fixation" of people with these "famous" mods, seeing it as a fad. But I learned later on that a mod's popularity stems from its looks (IMHO the top criterion), its function (momentum, weight, feel customization, etc.), and/or its reputation for both. Hence the reputation of HGG-based mods, Comssa's, et al.

While I don't disagree with that, I must say say that I still retain that reservation regarding amassing pens and modding them according to what's "cool" or "the best". PS for me, after all, is an art and expression of one's self, so a personal mod is still the best.

Just my two charges
-JC-
Date: Mon, Feb 25 2008 18:02:49

mhmm...i sorta just feel that people make mod using the grips that the creator used just cause they 1-are too lazy to find a substitute grip or 2-because that grip is actually the best grip possible to be used for that mod
but i personally feel that it is the former
Invincibleman
Date: Mon, Feb 25 2008 20:07:07

I'm not really sure about this. I keep a couple of MXs around Some with HGG grips and some with G2 grips. I actually like one that I used a grip from some store brand pencil. I think every pen spinner has different grip that they prefer. I sometimes put the grip from another rsvp on one. Probably because I learned the first tricks I knew with an rsvp unmodified so my hands are kind of formed to the grip. So I think that the hgg grip is just a general grip but many pen spinners could find a grip that works much better for them.
iMatt
Date: Mon, Feb 25 2008 23:38:10

To be honest, the MX/MX^2 do prove a point that they don't look like a Frankenpen, as like the
RG2T a.k.a.RÂ²SG2VP/RRMMX (no offense) or w/e name you wanna give it . The mx/mx^2 are pens that seem like you could buy them in a pack of 5 at Wal-mart or some retail of the sort. Eso did pull up the good point that yeah nothing does stick out, but when it comes to comfort, a G2 grip is easier to adjust too at first. BRAND new HGG's that you just put on the MX are slippery, infinities are very difficult to achieve with a slick grip. The HGG may look better, but it has to be broken in to become better. Most people realize that and switch over to something that they can grasp. As had I for awhile. it took a whole 5 months of constant spinning with a blue HGG grip to become soft and grippable, which is ideal for spinning. Its really all about patients if you have the resources to all the grips.

Probably the biggest reason i've seen people use the MX is just for the sake of the Metal tip. Face it, chrome styling makes things look more badass(in most situations, NOT ALL!) Then it still retains that pen shape. It's a familiar figure to people, face it, the ComSSa and Dr. Kt look like long wailing mini-batons to the average person. That kind of thing sticks out. It then becomes a bit of self pride. Would you rather be spinning something that looks like a pen or something that people think is a baton(not to offend any users of double sided pens, i love them myself, just saying)

Last deciding factor, color schemes. HGG's/RSVPS have a metric ton of colors to use. Then toss in a bad ass graphic, and your already excited. People like having one of a kind stuff...well, some do.
Gunblakes
Date: Tue, Feb 26 2008 12:21:10

One reason people like one-sided mods is because it looks like a real pen. So, I think that the "stream-lined look that a hgg grip gives an RSVP MX" comment by Eso fits in with the "people like one-sided pens" theory, as it would look more natural, and most people would think that a RSVP MX was a normal stock pen if they didnt look closely enough. At least, that was what I thought an RSVP MX was at first, a stock pen, when I had not started PS-ing yet.
Aries
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 01:29:30

@iMatt: Don't diss my mod lol. It doesn't look like a Frankenpen, pretty clean if you ask me the one I posted in the tutorial was like my "discovery pen", I have a hella clean looking one. Also many versions of my pen are in the show of your pens topic.

Anyways, I do think the whole "pen aesthtic" is a bunch of BS. You make it how you want it to be. MX's maybe clean looking, but people usually change the grips and stuff to make it their own because no one likes posers lol jk. As for my mod, It's the same as the MX it has a basic body structure but usually people change the insert and grips to the pattern they want, reflecting their personaility and tastes. I have a KT of my own, Although it does follow the colors of Ryo's original color pattern it is totally different, consisting of a CT body and different grip pattern. Designs are all personal preference, to other non spinners of course they will treat any long ass pen as a baton. You can't blame them.
NoRice4U
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 02:03:28

IMO, even if it doesn't look sleek or w/e it can still be unique

for example:
Gunblakes
Date: Wed, Feb 27 2008 09:56:23

Holy carp. TEK, thats a sweet ayatori mod, i tried making one and failed miserably at the funky grip design part. What grip did u use?
On topic, I guess everyone has their own aesthetic sense. One man's meat is another man's poison. For example, alot of people like the ARMMX for some reason, but i think it looks ugly.
Zombo
Date: Thu, Feb 28 2008 14:44:14

stay on topic plz.
Vall3y
Date: Thu, Feb 28 2008 19:55:55

something raelly odd is, the MX kam came up with so many years ago, is the same MX we know it today. i mean, on the "same level of pens", no one was able to come up with a better pen.
what i would expect is that kam came up with a version of an MX, and over the time people improved it, but the HGG grip is still the best so it seems, or its just that we're so locked with out mind and that we want it to be like the original one.
Mimesis
Date: Fri, Feb 29 2008 01:36:33

isnt an hgg grip, just a long rsvp grip? so it would make sense that it would look good, because it looks like it belongs there. not like other grips that are contoured to match different styles of pen body.
sketching
Date: Fri, Feb 29 2008 04:10:02

QUOTE
However, I always wondered why is it the general consensus that a HGG grip is always better looking. Is it because that's how it was done first or is there more than meets the eye?
I assume (possibly incorrectly) that a pen mod has already had extensive research done by the modder. I don't need to do any further research for subs because I assume that the work has already been done and that the finally product may not get any better. I'm not a pen modder, so I don't care to do further research. I try to use the original materials because that's what the creator of the mod has found to be the most useful at that time. I see no need to try to improve others' work if the pen mod is good enough as it is. If the pen mod doesn't look good/useful, I won't even try it.

It's not strictly because certain pen parts look good the parts also need to be useful enough. The HGG grip is a great grip, it's very useful. I don't use the HGG grip in every mod because it doesn't look good with every mod. There are available grips that not only look better in other mods, but may also be more useful. It's a balance between usefulness and looks.

QUOTE
When you start using other grips, you lose this sleek look and it starts to look tacky.
True, I haven't seen another grip that looks as good as the HGG grip on the RSVP MX, but that doesn't mean that the grip looks good on anything, because it does not. The Profile grip, which is often used instead, is too bulky. It's also a great grip, but I save my Profile grips for other mods. The G2 grip sucks. Period. I wouldn't use it on a pen mod I plan on using regularly unless I had no other choice. The HGG grip is, IMO, the best combination of looks and usefulness when used in certain mods.

QUOTE
The reason I bring this up is to see if anyone else has noticed this. I think it's somewhat "unfair" to a lot of the mods out there because they use unconventional grips, tips, etc. I suppose this all ties back in to the "who's a better modder" concept. I just wish there were more pens with greater adaptability in terms of modding.
I don't care who makes a mod or what it's made of. If I can get the parts, I'll try the mod out. These days, I just don't care to try out any new mods unless I already have the parts, because I don't want to trade and don't care to spend more money on mods that I may not like. I have already tried SO MANY different mods and I already know what I like from A LOT of experimentation. Unless something comes along that just blows people away and/or really gets my interest, I'm not going to try the mod, whatever parts are used.

I tended to use famous mods, because "back in the day" pen mods had a lot of work put behind them and a lot of research went into finding really good parts. The VAST majority of pen mods either
A.) don't look very useful
B.) look awful
I wouldn't want to try a mod that is visually unappealing to me, just as I wouldn't want to try a mod that looks useless to me.

QUOTE
I think it's somewhat "unfair" to a lot of the mods out there because they use unconventional grips, tips, etc.
Since there is nothing "fair" about using any pen mod, it's not "unfair" to not try any other pen mod. You don't need any kind of mod to spin a pen, pen mods are just extras that we can choose to use or not use. If something is not locally available to me, the overall quality of the mod and the apparant usefulness to me must be raised because it takes more effort on my part to try the mod. There are famous pen mods that I still have not tried because I don't care to trade/buy online the parts. The apparent benefit to me doesn't match the effort/cost. Since I'm under NO obligation to try every new pen mod that is thrown into the mix, each potential pen mod must prove it's worth to me. Mods that use rare/non-local parts just have to raise the bar to get my attention.

A nice example of a famous pen mod that I doubt I will ever spend the money to buy/trade for: Dr. KT. It looks way too heavy for me and looks really ugly. The parts are extremely easy to get these days online, but I just don't care to put the money into getting my hands on one because I don't see enough value in trying it out.
Salvis
Date: Sat, Mar 1 2008 12:00:13

Personaly i dont give a fuck @ MXs Dr.Kt ec. ect. popular mods. I just dont be one of copy mass. Becouse its popular it doesnt mean you have to use it and make or buy it.

I've seen @ penwish - about MX - This pen/mod is a must have for all spinners. - O rly ? why should i have it ?becouse others has it?

I think personaly its more interesting to create your own mods and test test and test again. Now i have made 3 personal mods that is very confortable for me and not bad looking.

One of them: does it look like awful monster? ->

Spoiler:

I dont think so.
ArchAngel2
Date: Sat, Mar 1 2008 19:59:36

Hmmm.... i personally prefer twist erase grips over hgg, because of the weight and "grippyness".....

i noticed that a lot of people like symmetrical mods..... and i researched a bit about this....

ahem...

"human beings like the symmetrical look of things"............uhhh..............not all............

personally for me it's the color choices and the "neatness"...i don't want some random sloppy pen...
Kam
Date: Sat, Mar 1 2008 22:53:36

QUOTE (iMatt @ Feb 25 2008, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To be honest, the MX/MX^2 do prove a point that they don't look like a Frankenpen, as like the
RG2T a.k.a.RÂ²SG2VP/RRMMX (no offense) or w/e name you wanna give it . The mx/mx^2 are pens that seem like you could buy them in a pack of 5 at Wal-mart or some retail of the sort. Eso did pull up the good point that yeah nothing does stick out, but when it comes to comfort, a G2 grip is easier to adjust too at first. BRAND new HGG's that you just put on the MX are slippery, infinities are very difficult to achieve with a slick grip. The HGG may look better, but it has to be broken in to become better. Most people realize that and switch over to something that they can grasp. As had I for awhile. it took a whole 5 months of constant spinning with a blue HGG grip to become soft and grippable, which is ideal for spinning. Its really all about patients if you have the resources to all the grips.

Probably the biggest reason i've seen people use the MX is just for the sake of the Metal tip. Face it, chrome styling makes things look more badass(in most situations, NOT ALL!) Then it still retains that pen shape. It's a familiar figure to people, face it, the ComSSa and Dr. Kt look like long wailing mini-batons to the average person. That kind of thing sticks out. It then becomes a bit of self pride. Would you rather be spinning something that looks like a pen or something that people think is a baton(not to offend any users of double sided pens, i love them myself, just saying)

Last deciding factor, color schemes. HGG's/RSVPS have a metric ton of colors to use. Then toss in a bad ass graphic, and your already excited. People like having one of a kind stuff...well, some do.

I have met with TEK and noticed we both have something in similar. We both have interest and appreciate graphic design. Because of that, we put more emphasis on the aesthetics of our pens. I'm sure people with similar artistic interests probably feel the same.

I think I'm going a bit off-topic, but I'll explain a bit about the choice of HGG grip. Like Sketching mentioned, I put a lot of research on my mods before releasing them (the insert alone took me two weeks), so it's no coincidence the MX stood the test of time. One of the main reasons (besides looks) that I chose a HGG grip was cost and availability. Not only it was one of the most available pens at the time in US, but it also provided me with the metal tip. So, with only 2 pens, you could make a decent spinning pen. Nowadays, it seems people don't care as much about the cost of a mod, as long as it looks cool or spin well. However, when the MX was created, both use, looks, cost, and availability were taken into consideration. I mean, if you can choose between using 2 pens or 3 pens to make a mod, which would you pick? (assuming the end product is pretty much the same)

iMatt: the HGG grip is very easy to be broken in. Just roll it a few times between your hands and it loses its brand new feel to it. I'm not sure if that'll give u the same feel as a 5 month MX, but it works well enough for me.

QUOTE (sketching @ Feb 28 2008, 08:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
[...]
I don't care who makes a mod or what it's made of. If I can get the parts, I'll try the mod out. These days, I just don't care to try out any new mods unless I already have the parts, because I don't want to trade and don't care to spend more money on mods that I may not like. I have already tried SO MANY different mods and I already know what I like from A LOT of experimentation. Unless something comes along that just blows people away and/or really gets my interest, I'm not going to try the mod, whatever parts are used.

I tended to use famous mods, because "back in the day" pen mods had a lot of work put behind them and a lot of research went into finding really good parts. The VAST majority of pen mods either
A.) don't look very useful
B.) look awful
I wouldn't want to try a mod that is visually unappealing to me, just as I wouldn't want to try a mod that looks useless to me.
[...]

Amen...I feel the same way. I'm not saying that there aren't good mods out there, but that we just don't have as much quality assurance as we used to. I feel today's modders need to take more time developing their mods before releasing

QUOTE (Salvis @ Mar 1 2008, 04:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Personaly i dont give a fuck @ MXs Dr.Kt ec. ect. popular mods. I just dont be one of copy mass. Becouse its popular it doesnt mean you have to use it and make or buy it.

I've seen @ penwish - about MX - This pen/mod is a must have for all spinners. - O rly ? why should i have it ?becouse others has it?

I think personaly its more interesting to create your own mods and test test and test again. Now i have made 3 personal mods that is very confortable for me and not bad looking.

One of them: does it look like awful monster? ->

Spoiler:

I dont think so.

Salvis, I partially agree with you...it's a lot more interesting to create your own mods and make something unique. But there are a few good reasons for owning some popular mods (and I don't say this just because I'm promoting the MX).

First, if a mod is highly popular, there's a probably a good reason for that. Until you have the mod yourself or have tried making one, you won't know why. I personally did not understand the appeal of a Dr. KT until I've tried one. I realized then that the huge momentum it provides was why so many people like it. Then I accidentally pull of a combo I was learning with it without realizing...lol.

Second, you can (and probably should) learn from other mods before making your own. I mean, if you don't know any other mods, how could you tell that your mod is any good?

well, this is becoming more of a pen modding post than philosophical...sry about that
Salvis
Date: Sat, Mar 1 2008 23:05:21

I dont think RSVP MX, Dr KT and all other mods are bad. They are good and popular. But.. there is one big but - @ Latvia you can get HGG only (i know this one only) - all others i have been searchering and finding nothing.

A bit later at this year i will order rsvp mx parts (to make mx dooh), dr kt bonkura kt - but those two i will order ready ones.

The fact of self discovering mods is simple:

Its very interesting when you go to shop you have money for pens, then you start to look at all avaible pens - take some for grips, tips, bodys ect. Buy about 40 pens (2 from each pen model). Then starts the interesting part - you sit at your desk and start to do magic.
TeddyTemptation
Date: Sun, Mar 2 2008 00:08:35

a really kickass mod is a rsvp mx with signo tip and hgg grip in cap

looks very natural and is good for spinning
Eso
Date: Mon, Mar 3 2008 16:07:51

There are some great points raised here. Well, my original question was asking why do certain parts of a pen fit better than others? I think the answer is obvious, since the parts pretty much form a second "skin" to the barrel, cap, etc. When I look at a HGG grip on the MX, I think that it looks natural and it may very well have been purchased from a store as is.

Now with that in mind along with Kam's response, we all know that the MX took a lot of design and had to meet a lot of criteria.
There are lots of other mods out there that took lots of consideration and underwent a rigorous design process, and yet sometimes these mods don't look as "natural." These mods may use some unconventional grip that may look out of place, but has a great texture to it. Or it may have a plastic cap that looks a bit bulky, but equalizes the weight distribution, and so on.

So the question I pose to you now is, are looks so important that other things such as cost, availability, and spin-ability are overlooked?
sketching
Date: Mon, Mar 3 2008 20:54:12

QUOTE
So the question I pose to you now is, are looks so important that other things such as cost, availability, and spin-ability are overlooked?
Not at all. It can be a trade-off depending on what you are looking for and what are your tastes. With my simple tastes for minimalistic pen mods, it's quite easy to find parts that work.

I'd say that you should first concentrate on finding the most useful pen mod you can get your hands on, whatever the look of it. To me a good enough pen mod has the following qualities: having a basic shape that is pleasing enough for you to be able to use in public, be balanced to my liking, be weighted (or not weighted) to my liking and be made of materials that I am comfortable with. The previous may not have to be looked for in that order, but should include as much of them as possible. As I said before, an ugly pen mod (according to my tastes) is not so useful to me. On the other hand, if the pen mod seems like it can be useful otherwise and I can find someway to make a less-than-decent-looking pen mod look better (other materials or an altered way of construction), I'll give it a go, otherwise the pen mod will probably not get a lot of use. If a mod looks good enough (it doesn't need to look amazing) then I'll look to see if it is actually spinnable. During and after the making of the mod, I'm spinning the mod and seeing if it is actually comfortable to use. If, in the end, the mod looks good but doesn't feel good to me, it gets tossed into my box of excess pen mods or taken apart for spare parts.

I'm lucky that I can get access to any pen part I need if I really want to, but I can also see that others are not so lucky. In that case, it's up to you whether you can find a pen mod that is first a decent pen mod. It needs to help your spinning, otherwise you've wasted the pen parts. You don't need a highly designed pen mod, but you probably won't feel like spinning something ugly. It just depends on what you, personally, can get a hold of and what you can honestly spin in public.

Edit: somewhere in the second paragraph, you can also add in the ability to write. I no longer care to carry around 2 pens (1 to spin, 2 to write with) when a single pen mod will do. Also, the pen mod must fit in my pocket. Now that I'm done with school, I don't have a backpack with me most of the day to carry a bulky pen mod (or multiple pen mods) with me.
Imagm-1337
Date: Mon, Mar 10 2008 22:32:32

QUOTE (Eso @ Mar 3 2008, 12:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So the question I pose to you now is, are looks so important that other things such as cost, availability, and spin-ability are overlooked?

Actually to me, I think all of them is important, but a little bit more in looks because it's like marrying with someone, you wouldn't want to marry a person that you think he/she is ugly, right? Unless you have your own reason to do so. For cost, I think is not much of a problem for people here because if you have internet and computer, I think a few dollars to twenty dollars(or higher) is not that much compare to it(unless they have their own reasons). So look is more important than cost. As for spin-ability, it depends on the person. But for availability, if you can't find the parts you can just buy them online or trade, but if you don't have paypal or credit card(or whatever), then don't make the mod, simple. So look is slightly more important than availability.
Product
Date: Thu, Mar 20 2008 18:47:47

everyone has an other point of view what looks better .... sometimes its the point that some grips are better then others cause they are better to put in a cap for example .
Icepray
Date: Wed, Jun 4 2008 17:48:25

I like spinning mods I find look cool. That's about it! It can spin worse than a KT or MX up to a certain point but if the spinning isn't bad with it and I like the look of it what's wrong with spinning it? Might take a bit of practice but I don't have to time to make my own mod and I don't want to get in the KT fever (anywase I found it was too heavy for me). I don't find availibility that important cause if I did I would be spinning a com.pirate cause in Switzerland there aren't many pens to be found. Now I have a MX and I love spinning it from time to time cause it looks like a pen... and spins well, but I don't think there are any videos of me spinning one apart from an NX MMT. I tend to spin mods that I find look cool and that's it! Like my japanese pencil mod and my new metalic comsaa ballsign.

I don't think it's the pen that will give off some good effect etc... some pens just don't look good when spun in a certain way which means, one pen might fit the persons spinning nicely while another pen might not, it also might lean toward what pen you spun when you were learning... I've spun my japanese pencil mod for about 4+months (didn't calculate really I think when I was a 6month spinner), and people say it suits me. I don't find there is an ultimate mod or anything or that one grip is better, it's all personal and what counts is how it looks when spun!

(sorry if I'm off topic xD)
bigschlang31
Date: Wed, Jun 4 2008 17:54:39

I think that if you want to personalize a specific mod, then just change the colors...if you change the materials then you are changing the mod.