UPSB v3
Fundamental Tricks / Infinity/figure 8/wipers ... a fundamental?
read my post to see why i posted this here
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Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 04:05:53
okay, i was talkign to one guy and i came to think how infinity really should be a fundamental
i feel like infinity brings a whole new scope of tricks into combos and penspinning and therefore, since infinity is the easiest of the infinity variations (obviously) it should be the trick to become a fundamental
infinity just looks so different from other tricks and brings its own group of tricks to penspinngin (extend infinity, double-triple-quadruple infinities)
also, it's not a hard trick to learn by itself--i'm sure many non-penspinners could learn it faster than they could learn a sonic (in most cases, i guess)
so i would like to propose infinity as being anotehr one of the fundamentals
i realize that this will change a lot of things, but i strongly believe that this would be a sensible change
okay, time to get ready for the loads of comments shooting me down
the main question is not WHICH one should be the fundamental, but rather, SHOULD one of them be a fundamental -
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 04:10:33
yah i agree with the infinity is easy to learn part but its not up to me to decide whether its a fundamental or not
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Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 04:18:02
well, it's easy to say that it's easy, but i don't think that it should be a fundy for that reason
i just think that it should because of the new span of tricks that it provides penspinners, infinity being the most basic of holding the pen by the tip -
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 04:18:10
i agree.
but five fundamentals just doesn't work... -
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 04:20:15
why not o.0..?
i think 5's a better number than 4
you know, in china, 4's an unlucky number
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Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 04:21:53
Yes, I see where you are coming from, but I think the reason that it's not is just because it's a very different trick than the others.
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Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 04:24:41
well, not that it's a very different trick, but the fact that it brings a whole group of tricks
like i'm sure aireals are very different from normal tricks, but they are their own trick
infinity, like i said before, has many variations -
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 04:31:48
Well then this can be said about many tricks, for example: twisted sonic. Not a hard trick to learn but not a fundamental. It also leads into many other tricks.
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Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 04:35:38
but that's cause it's based off of charge and pass, which are already fundamentals
hmm...then should wipers be considered fundamentals instead--since technically i guess, infinities are based off of wipers -
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 04:43:15
Yea, true.
There's got to be some specific reason why those four are the only fundamentals and not other, alike, simple tricks. -
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 04:48:22
well, i guess i'm sorta looking for that "reason"
or perhaps, infinity was just looked past when those 4 were decided
or perhaps, infinity wasn't even created yet when those 4 were decided -
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 04:49:06
For some reason, I actually had quite a hard time learning Infinity and getting it smooth when I first tried learning it. I got really irritated, but I totally agree.
I can definitely see Infinity being a fundamental. The tricks that infinity is linked with are completely different than the other tricks from the other fundamentals
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Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 05:19:33
infinity should be a fundamental
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Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 06:24:00
i think infinity should be fundamental tooo
imo it is easier than sonic -
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 12:50:59
this has been proposed many times already, but we haven't reached a conclusion on it yet.
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Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 19:27:02
I 100% agree with you on this... kind of. If the infinity is going to be a fundamental, what about the wiper? The wiper composes the infinity.
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Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 20:17:21
I already consider it a fundamental... somewhat.
The infinity stands alone from the other fundamentals, and has it's own motion. The sonic, charge, fingerpass, and thumbaround all have their own motion as well, and are the most basic trick to this motion or positioning. This is what makes them a fundamental.
So, since the infinity doesn't branch from the motion of one of these other fundamentals, I see it as the most basic trick involving this motion. Therefor, I see it as a fundamental. -
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 21:55:55
yeahh, retro--i was thinking about the possibility of wiper being teh fundamental instead, but either way, i think one or teh otehr should be the fundamental
i just said infinity first cause it seemed more appropriate
like, when you're showing new spinners the fundamentals, the wiper seems too plain to be one--well, much more boring than the infinity at least
so just purely out of presentation for new spinners, infinity seems more appropriate imo -
Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 23:06:20
Well infinity is a combo so it would be kind of strange to have a combo being a fundamental. But then there's fingerpass which is also a combo which makes you wonder if the fingerpass combo is a fundamental or if just the individual passes are.
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Date: Wed, Mar 5 2008 23:33:19QUOTE (Retro-spectre @ Mar 5 2008, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I 100% agree with you on this... kind of. If the infinity is going to be a fundamental, what about the wiper? The wiper composes the infinity.
thats not an issue since fingerpass is comprised of passes. Pass and Wipers are considered utility tricks. -
Date: Thu, Mar 6 2008 00:15:47
You should make another category. The Sub-Fundamentals, and throw the infinity in there.
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Date: Thu, Mar 6 2008 00:20:16
mhmm...no offense, but i dont' really like that idea
what else would you put there
if you were to have a 'sub' fundamental group, i feel that it should encompass more tricks than teh fundamental group does
there aren't many tricks that i can think of that should go there
perhaps, infinity and shadow, and it's pushing it, but twisted sonic--but that's all i can think of -
Date: Thu, Mar 6 2008 00:36:00
No offense taken, but I didn't mean just the infinity. That would be wierd having one trick in it's own group. Actually, screw the whole thing. I never mentioned it.
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Date: Thu, Mar 6 2008 00:39:05
Maybe Figure 8 should be there. Its kind of like a step down from an infinity. I personally learned figure 8 first (thinking I was goind an infinity) then learned infinities and variations.
Just an idea -
Date: Thu, Mar 6 2008 01:04:58
imo, infinity is easier since it uses more fingers--allowing more hand control
i think figure eight is a step up xDD -
Date: Thu, Mar 6 2008 01:13:51
Infinity doesn't give you a base for learning other tricks, it just helps you to learn more Infinity combos.
You could say that Triple Infinity works all of your fingers, but Fingerpass already fills that role, Twisted Sonics also give more of a finger workout to all the fingers. Single Infinity isn't all that useful as a base for other stuff, unlike the other Fundamentals. -
Date: Thu, Mar 6 2008 01:16:06
well, since it branches off to other infinity combos, isn't it 'fundamental' to learning those other tricks?
like how a charge branches off to a shadow or twisted sonic
ta branches off to learning the otehr arounds
sonic branches off to learning all the other massive amounts of sonic variations/hybrids -
Date: Thu, Mar 6 2008 01:27:28
True, it allows one to do other Infinity combos, but as a single combo, it doesn't seem that useful to me for a beginner to learn. It's a good to know, just like Halftaps & Fulltaps, but I don't see any need to add it to the Fundys group. It doesn't seem as useful for a beginner to learn. Infinity can introduce someone to holding the end of the pen, just like Halftap can introduce someone to topspins, but I don't see anything more that justifies Infinity as a "need-to-know" combo for a beginner.
The combo is quite useful for combos, Wipers Reverse and Passes are both very useful to me. On the other hand, I don't personally see anything definitely useful that the combo teaches a newb that he would need to know.
Edit: the same I think for Halftap. It leads to Fulltap + Reverses, Baktaps + Reverses and Palmtaps + Reverses, but doesn't really give the newb something really useful for a beginner, they are just more tricks to learn. -
Date: Thu, Mar 6 2008 02:30:10
for what reason are the current fundamentals considered to be fundamentals then o.0..?
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Date: Thu, Mar 6 2008 02:36:15
Go to the Fundamentals FAQ, which I assume you've already read, and check the links for the second question.
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Date: Thu, Mar 6 2008 03:41:57
hehe, you assumed wrong...i haven't read that yet
but okay, this is where i got shot down
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Date: Thu, Mar 6 2008 05:17:07
i think it should be
all of the fundementals combine to make most of the tricks in the penspinning tricktionary
charges create the basis for the conic spins of most tricks
the thumbaround introduces arounds, and extends tricks to the outer part of the hand
the sonic introduces the concept of holding the pen with non adjacent fingers (not sure if i worded that right)
the fingerpass, as zombo pointed out, is a combo of the pass, a utility trick, a utility trick that is quite neccesary to learn
the infinity is a combo of the wiper, which can be equally important to learn
you could master all of the fundementals and all the tricks they can combine to make, and you would be at loss for how to do infinity tricks
i remember when i saw it the first time i just couldnt understand wthell it was, it took me forever to find out they were called 'infinities'
if it were a fundemental, beginners could see it instantly, and be introduced into that entire new realm of tricks
i would very much like to see infinity as a fundemental
who decides those things? is there like... a vote or something? -
Date: Fri, Mar 7 2008 09:27:45
i agree but i do think that figure 8 is easier...
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Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 05:21:32QUOTE (pen_MAKer @ Mar 7 2008, 01:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i agree but i do think that figure 8 is easier...
i learned figure 8 thinking it was the infinity lol
the thing about the figure 8 is
it has wiper reverses
it doesn't look as good. the pen has the same path as the infinity, but because of the hand motion necessary to allow it to follow that path, it really just looks like you're swinging the pen around
which you basically are...
but yea, i read what someone said earlier about the fact that infinity only opens up for more infinity combos
but i think the value of the infinity also comes from the fact that it teachs you the wiper, which can be used in tons of combos -
Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 06:08:03
Doing the Cardioid combo also teaches you Wiper Reverse, which is where I learned it first from. If anything should be a Fundy, not to say that I think it should, Figure 8 is more appropriate than Infinity since it only uses Wipers, whereas Infinity uses Wipers and Passes.
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Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 14:27:42
I think the infinity should be a fundamental... because I do.
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Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 14:33:48QUOTE (GreatMind @ Mar 8 2008, 09:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think the infinity should be a fundamental... because I do.
you do what? -
Date: Sat, Mar 22 2008 15:09:39QUOTE (TRoc @ Mar 5 2008, 08:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>You should make another category. The Sub-Fundamentals, and throw the infinity in there.
that'd actaully be cool
the infinity a sub-fundamental
and yeah JC, I thought about the infinity being a fundamental too
I understand why -
Date: Sat, Mar 22 2008 17:37:00
i do think cardioid helps sketching, but it only makes you develop wiper on T1 :/
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Date: Sat, Mar 22 2008 17:45:43
I think infinity cant be a fundamental..
The fundamental tricks helps you on random areas.. I mean, if you know how to do fingerpass, it'll help you on charge, that will help you on sonic, that may help you on lots of other things.
The infinity though, just helps on linking tricks (mostly on combos), but doesnt help you to learn several tricks.. i mean, just the infinity 'family', like its variations
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Date: Sun, Mar 23 2008 00:51:32
I found figure 8 easier to do than infinity
I though when doing cardioid its a wiper, not a wiper rev. -
Date: Thu, Mar 27 2008 18:08:35
I think infinity is ezier...figure 8 u hafta do with 1 posistion. then agin i havent learned figure 8 so i wouldn't know
as to the fudnamental question..yes -
Date: Thu, Mar 27 2008 19:46:06
it was like the second trick I learned so yea it should be a fundy
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Date: Thu, Mar 27 2008 20:18:29QUOTE (servantofGod @ Mar 27 2008, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>it was like the second trick I learned so yea it should be a fundy
that's not a good reason; shadow was the 3rd trick I learned ... so should it be a fundamental? no -
Date: Thu, Mar 27 2008 21:52:22
what I meant was that it was fairly easy to learn and opened many new doors to enhance my skill
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Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 20:55:48QUOTE (-JC- @ Mar 5 2008, 06:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>okay, i was talkign to one guy and i came to think how infinity really should be a fundamental
i feel like infinity brings a whole new scope of tricks into combos and penspinning and therefore, since infinity is the easiest of the infinity variations (obviously) it should be the trick to become a fundamental
infinity just looks so different from other tricks and brings its own group of tricks to penspinngin (extend infinity, double-triple-quadruple infinities)
also, it's not a hard trick to learn by itself--i'm sure many non-penspinners could learn it faster than they could learn a sonic (in most cases, i guess)
so i would like to propose infinity as being anotehr one of the fundamentals
i realize that this will change a lot of things, but i strongly believe that this would be a sensible change
okay, time to get ready for the loads of comments shooting me down
i agree, its a really basic move, and another site called pentrix says that it is a fundamental
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Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 21:08:12
pentrix doesn't say it's a fundamental...
http://pentrix.com/tricks/pafiledb.php?act...tegory&id=1
I guess I'm undecided; it does have its own "category" of tricks but it's mainly only the infinity variations. -
Date: Mon, Mar 31 2008 18:05:03
ya but bak has its own family of tricks...thats not a fundy. just cuz it has a family of trix doesnt mean its a fundy....
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Date: Sun, May 25 2008 05:36:03
the bak has its own family of tricks?
the thing is... it introduces beginners to the idea of holding the pen at the end of the fingers, and wipers. i think that's very important. You say it only opens up for more infinity combos but I don't think that's true. Take something like this for example-
figure 8 reverse t1 > wiper rev t1 > pass t1-12 > inverse twisted sonic reverse 12-23 > pass reverse 23-12 > pass 12-23 > charge 0.5 23 > pass reverse 23-12 > wiper 12-T12
the entire thing is done at the end of the pen with a lot of hand turns
the point is, not many beginners would create a combo like this without knowing the infinity first, at least i dont think so -
Date: Sun, May 25 2008 08:20:07
Usually I wouldn't post regarding a conversation that happened so long ago, but as somebody else already woke the dragon, i'll poke at it and weigh in on this issue.
Yes, the infinity is a fairly easy to do and simple trick, but it shouldn't be a fundamental, because it's not fundamental to pen spinning. No one could put together a career as a pen spinner without a good handle on the four fundamental tricks, but there are many spinners, especially old school koreans, who are well established and never use the infinity at all. If it was really fundamental, it would be impossible to spin without. -
Date: Sun, May 25 2008 10:03:16QUOTE (Outlander @ Mar 6 2008, 04:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Maybe Figure 8 should be there. Its kind of like a step down from an infinity. I personally learned figure 8 first (thinking I was goind an infinity) then learned infinities and variations.
Just an idea
same thing happend with me i support your idea
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Date: Sun, May 25 2008 12:27:35
infinty is a easy trick ven u no how to do it...........it shuld be in the fundamentals........coz u combine wid other tricks to make a combo..........
QUOTE (Anascrash04 @ May 25 2008, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>same thing happend with me i support your idea
same thing hapened here.........i was lernin infinity and i lerned figure 8.........
QUOTE (someone09 @ Mar 28 2008, 01:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>that's not a good reason; shadow was the 3rd trick I learned ... so should it be a fundamental? no
u no infinity is a easy trick........it shuld be in d fundy coz u combine it wid other tricks to make a combo...... -
Date: Sun, May 25 2008 12:53:06
You combine FL TA Reverse with other tricks to make a combo. You combine Shadow with other tricks to make a combo, as well as Bak, Arounds, Aerials, etc
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Date: Sun, May 25 2008 13:55:20QUOTE (someone @ May 25 2008, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>You combine FL TA Reverse with other tricks to make a combo. You combine Shadow with other tricks to make a combo, as well as Bak, Arounds, Aerials, etc
dont forget about passes and charges
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Date: Sun, May 25 2008 14:04:59QUOTE (yahu @ May 25 2008, 04:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Usually I wouldn't post regarding a conversation that happened so long ago, but as somebody else already woke the dragon, i'll poke at it and weigh in on this issue.
Yes, the infinity is a fairly easy to do and simple trick, but it shouldn't be a fundamental, because it's not fundamental to pen spinning. No one could put together a career as a pen spinner without a good handle on the four fundamental tricks, but there are many spinners, especially old school koreans, who are well established and never use the infinity at all. If it was really fundamental, it would be impossible to spin without.
oh really?
I'm never really seen David Weis doing fingerpasses in a video... not that I recall of anyway -
Date: Sun, May 25 2008 17:01:35QUOTE (Zombo @ May 25 2008, 09:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>oh really?
I'm never really seen David Weis doing fingerpasses in a video... not that I recall of anyway
But he certainly uses passes for utility, and the best way for learning good passes is by making sure you can do the fingerpass well. In my mind, that justifies fingerpass as a fundamental trick. I can't imagine if you asked David Weis to perform a fingerpass, he would not be able to do it. -
Date: Mon, May 26 2008 01:51:42QUOTE (yahu @ May 25 2008, 12:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Usually I wouldn't post regarding a conversation that happened so long ago, but as somebody else already woke the dragon, i'll poke at it and weigh in on this issue.
Yes, the infinity is a fairly easy to do and simple trick, but it shouldn't be a fundamental, because it's not fundamental to pen spinning. No one could put together a career as a pen spinner without a good handle on the four fundamental tricks, but there are many spinners, especially old school koreans, who are well established and never use the infinity at all. If it was really fundamental, it would be impossible to spin without.
there's nothing wrong with bumping old threads with relevant posts. not that u said there was, i just thought i'd say that since people don't seem to get that...
as zombo said, david weis, and most other spinners, rarely use the entire fingerpass in their combos. they do use the pass, the utility trick that the fingerpass teaches. I think infinity is important because it teaches the wiper, an(the?)other utility trick. And yes, many spinners are well established without using the wiper, but that's merely preference; a spinner could just as well choose to use wipers and sonics in their combos, with no passes at all. It just isn't as popular, and that could even be attributed to the current fundementals setup. What is infinity was a fundemental instead of the fingerpass? (not a suggestion)
also, i don't agree that figure 8 should be used instead. figure 8 is a static trick, and doesnt introduce the spinner to wipers in 1234 slots, which is much harder than t1 wipers. and sketching mentioned that the figure 8 includes a pass, but just because it is technically a pass, a pass T1-12 really doesn't feel like a pass at all, more of a fingerswitch kind of thing. the point is, it's very natural. but that's just my opinion -
Date: Mon, May 26 2008 11:34:05
pass = fundamentals
fignerpass= series of fundamentals
david weis uses fundamentals even if its not a fingerpass
so BIG OFFTOPIC FROM ABOVE THIS THREAD IS ABOUT INFINITY
so imo NO IT SHOULDNT be as u dont really have to learn it to move on
compared to thumbaround , passes [ for doulbe charge twisted sonic etc ] -
Date: Mon, May 26 2008 21:03:25
So is the definiton of "fundamental" meaning difficulty or importance here? This is actually a bad question since whichever it is, infinity is on "fundamental" side.
Infinity is a basic trick, I think we can all agree on that. It is not very hard to learn with a pen equipped with a grip. It is also the base to many similar tricks and variations and as pointed out by many, very different from the other fundamentals (and tricks in general, too). In my opinion infinity should be a fundamental. It gives the spinner a new way of spinning his pen, in other words opens his possibilities to a new level. Isnt that an important quality of a fundamental trick?
Thats my 2 cents on the subject... -
Date: Tue, May 27 2008 00:36:03
It's NOT a fundamental no matter how much you want it to be, if you are arguing that infinity should be a fundamental then youa re sorely confused, if anything the WIPER shoudl be a fundamental instead... which is kind of stupid, since most people with any hand eye coordination at all can do it.
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Date: Tue, May 27 2008 01:58:51QUOTE (Anascrash04 @ May 26 2008, 03:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>pass = fundamentals
fignerpass= series of fundamentals
david weis uses fundamentals even if its not a fingerpass
so BIG OFFTOPIC FROM ABOVE THIS THREAD IS ABOUT INFINITY
so imo NO IT SHOULDNT be as u dont really have to learn it to move on
compared to thumbaround , passes [ for doulbe charge twisted sonic etc ]QUOTE (shoeman6 @ May 26 2008, 04:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It's NOT a fundamental no matter how much you want it to be, if you are arguing that infinity should be a fundamental then youa re sorely confused, if anything the WIPER shoudl be a fundamental instead... which is kind of stupid, since most people with any hand eye coordination at all can do it.
uh... no one went off topic..
and the pass isnt a fundemental, the FINGERPASS is, which is four passes. The pass and the wiper are both utility tricks, which is why neither is a fundemental. However, the combos they are used in can be. And the fact is, you only need one fundemental to move on. Two makes u better, etc. No one HAS to learn the thumbaround, and no one HAS to learn the fingerpass to use passes.
Shoeman, I think you're the one who is sorely comfused. No matter how much you want it to be? You act like we're the lowly peasants trying to rebel against the almighty king. These are decisions made for penspinners, by penspinners. This thread was made to see how many penspinners would like it to be added, and "it isn't a fundemental" isn't an arguement for not making it a fundemental. -
Date: Tue, May 27 2008 12:50:16
So far this topic presents many more arguments, and convincing ones, that infinity would make a good fundamental. I'd like to see some more of the arguments against. Sketching does make a very good point. Are there any other reasonings? At this point I'm more convinced that it should be, but I'm still open to more arguments.
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Date: Tue, May 27 2008 12:59:12
@ shadowserplant
If you wanted to make infinity a fundamental sicne technically a combo of wipers, I would also say that the sonic should be a combo because that's the basis of tons of tricks...
The WIPER should be the fundamental not the INFINITY thats my opinion, and imo i don't think that it the infinity should be a fundamental no amtter how many people want it to be, because it's not one, I'd rather see the sonic, shadow, and backaround become fundamentals (which they aren't and shouldn't be either) befre the infinity becomes one.
Sorry if I offended you...
...
and since wiper is a utility trick, eh...
But a utility trick is still technaclly a trick and could also be a fundamental... the wiper being pretty fundamental as with the pass seeing as how important they are for so many tricks.
(and it's my understanding [I may be wrong] that the infinity isn't technically a single trick, but a mini combo...) -
Date: Tue, May 27 2008 13:45:00
um...before you guys go off and argue about whether infinity should be a fundy or a wiper be a fundy, i'd say just debate over the issue of whether or not EITHER one should become a fundy =\
and then if you guys do decide that either trick should deserve a position as a fundy, thenn decide which one of the two should become it =\ -
Date: Tue, May 27 2008 13:51:51
wiper/infinity issue is to solve: it's infinity, because wiper is an utility trick. Same thing with fingerpass / pass.
Infinity would then become the second fundamental combo after fingerpass. -
Date: Wed, May 28 2008 02:45:02
thank you zombo
but one last note to shoeman6... the sonic is a fundemental oO
and the sonic isn't a combo... im not sure what you're saying. The infinity isn't a combo because it branches to other tricks. It's a combo because... it's a combo. Infinity = Wiper rev T1 > pass T1-12 > Wiper 12
and no offense taken, hope there's none given -
Date: Tue, Jun 24 2008 00:32:31
Pentrix Does at least half consider the infinity a fundamental because it freaking says so on the website
http://pentrix.com/articles/learning_order.html <------ It says so in all 3 of there learning orders
http://pentrix.com/articles/images/learning_order.gif <-----------------Where it says it
So does this mean kam thinks it is a fundamental? -
Date: Tue, Jun 24 2008 00:34:51
that learning chart is 3-4 years old, don't rely on it.
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Date: Tue, Jun 24 2008 00:46:05
i dont rely on it but if he thought it was a fundamental then i dont see how his opinion would of changed
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Date: Tue, Jun 24 2008 01:18:28
I think a fundamental is a trick you had to learn to begin PS , like sonic or ... , but if you learn infinity first
, I don't think that is a good way -
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 00:28:12
The infinity I think shouldnt be a fundamental. The figure 8 should. The infinity is SLIGHTLY hard to learn. the hinging part can be pretty difficult for some people.
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Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 00:42:06
i changed the title and added another line to the first post
when i say infinity in the first post, it can be used interchangeably with figure 8 and wipers -
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 00:48:50
For a while I've been suggesting the possibility of Wiper being made a fundamental. It's an easy trick and it leads to the entire infinity group of tricks as well as combos such as Cardioid. It's also a different spin type (through-spin) to any of the current 4 fundamentals.
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Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 00:56:29
i think zombo has already confirmed that the wiper isnt an option.
i dont think figure 8 should be at all, its just a static wiper in T1... it doesn't really open up to much
Mats, what you're saying is EXACTLY why i want the infinity to be a fundy. The wiper can't be a fundy because it's just a utility trick... it's barely a trick on its own, like the pass, that's why we use fingerpass.
Now, here's what i think about your arguement that the infinity has a pass in it:
the pass T1-12 in the infinity is barely even a pass. Newbies wouldnt even know it was a pass, even if they knew very well what a pass was. Because of the position the pen is in, it doesnt move. I fully understand that yes, the infinity does technically have a pass in it... but i dont think it should be disqualified because of a technicality like that -
Date: Fri, Jul 4 2008 22:11:33
infinity is not a fundy cuz it applys too many concepts rite? so that includes fingerpass?