UPSB v3
Philosophy / "Pen" Spinning
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Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 00:05:47
Our unorthodox hobby has led me to think deeply into what is "Pen Spinning".
While in essence, a pen is a writing instrument used for communication purposes, including artwork (whatever the pen produces is in a sense "artwork", since it is letters, numbers, figures, lines, designs, etc. that are all expressions of the human mind/emotion), it is still unclear and defined what is and what is not a pen when looking at the modifications and completely redone models of pens synthesized together to create unique instruments. Through this process though, the essence of what is and what is not a pen has diluted our hobby from its supposed seclusive nature of being unique to merely leaving the "Pen" out of "Spinning".
This is the conflict that has caused some (well, mostly myself) to question if pen spinning should even be the correct label for our hobby, since one can do many of the plethora of tricks that would require a specially modified pen with a toothbrush, stick, fork, knife, rod, peg, wire, etc. It has caused myself to lose some touch with the hobby. You cannot do yo-yo tricks without a yo-yo. You cannot do card manipulation without a card. You cannot do Zippo tricks without using a Zippo. You can do "pen spinning" tricks with many objects that have similar qualities of a pen though.
So tell me, what differentiates "pen spinning" from "spinning"? -
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 00:24:27
You are right, that our tricks can be used on other objects, but i think that when it was first called pen spinning, it was because it was executed on a pen that made it seem difficult and interesting. Though there are no records that are tricks were first invented and executed on a pen, eg. the trick "charge" is widely used by drummers, people would say that its much more fufilling and interesting to be done on a pen, than a drumstick. My belief is, that someone who has known our tricks and uses a stick to spin with, found it much more challenging to do it on a pen than on a stick. If everyone used sticks instead of pens, then yes, we would probably just be called "spinners". It would probably be much easier to teach people, but the level of difficulty would certainly decrease, and probably not be as much interesting.
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Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 00:32:55
I would keep the pen in, dough spinners dont use real dough, flaring doesnt always use real bottles.
Personally, if you spin something representing a pen in some way you are pen spinning. -
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 01:08:53QUOTEPersonally, if you spin something representing a pen in some way you are pen spinning.
that was possibly the best description of that arguement ive ever heard...
U-E-Dan, i love you. -
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 01:15:44
The difference between a pen spinner and a spinner is that pen spinners carry a pen with them everywhere and always spin a pen. You don't see people carrying forks everywhere with them, or hot dogs or twigs. A pen is by far the most common object to do tricks with.
Although, if there was a guy spinning a fork in front of a crowd, what would you call him? A fork spinner? A pen spinner spinning a fork? A guy doing pen tricks with a fork? Hmmm. -
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 02:43:54QUOTE (Leviathan @ Sep 9 2007, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The difference between a pen spinner and a spinner is that pen spinners carry a pen with them everywhere and always spin a pen. You don't see people carrying forks everywhere with them, or hot dogs or twigs. A pen is by far the most common object to do tricks with.
Although, if there was a guy spinning a fork in front of a crowd, what would you call him? A fork spinner? A pen spinner spinning a fork? A guy doing pen tricks with a fork? Hmmm.
a pen spinner spinning a fork, because you're applying pen spinning techniques to a fork.
this distinction can be easily proven using the case of knives. You can do balisong manipulation which is knife spinning and you can do pen spinning with knives, yet they are different. -
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 03:09:30QUOTE (Zombo @ Sep 9 2007, 10:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>a pen spinner spinning a fork, because you're applying pen spinning techniques to a fork.
Exactly my view as well. If you are applying PSing techniques to something that isn't a pen you are PSing. -
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 04:54:53QUOTE (ShortAssassin @ Sep 9 2007, 10:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Exactly my view as well. If you are applying PSing techniques to something that isn't a pen you are PSing.
Or are you just spinning. Because the P means Pen. -
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 05:08:53QUOTE (Leviathan @ Sep 9 2007, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The difference between a pen spinner and a spinner is that pen spinners carry a pen with them everywhere and always spin a pen. You don't see people carrying forks everywhere with them, or hot dogs or twigs. A pen is by far the most common object to do tricks with.
Although, if there was a guy spinning a fork in front of a crowd, what would you call him? A fork spinner? A pen spinner spinning a fork? A guy doing pen tricks with a fork? Hmmm.
I am not talking about the act of performing "pen" spinning in our everyday lives. I am talking about the simple act of performing "pen" spinning.QUOTE (LittleRaisin @ Sep 9 2007, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Or are you just spinning. Because the P means Pen.
Exactly my point.
What I am trying to dig at also is when we perform a "pen" spinning trick with an object other than a pen, it is not a pen spinning trick. It's really annoying to see posts saying that they tried a "pen" spinning trick with the objects that I mentioned above, only to assume that the trick is still considered a "pen only" trick.
Overall, my objective of this is to find a more concise definition and bring the excitement that was apart of Pentix back to this board, hopefully by letting people converse and find a more personal definition to what makes our hobby different than merely just manipulating a "stick". -
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 05:18:28
I suppose you have a point, but this only judging from a purely consequentialist and rational point of view. You don't spin a pen, you're not pen spinning. Makes sense.
What others are trying to argue, however, is that your intentions, your mindset, your framework, is important in your consideration of what is Pen Spinning.
If your intention was clearly to spin a knife as a substitute to real Pen Spinning, then why not classify as pen spinning altogether? And categorize it as "Pen Spinning with other objects".
If Pen Spinning was originated as Knife Spinning rather than Pen Spinning and someone were to pick a pen and spin it like they spun a knife, would you say it's Pen Spinning or Knife spinning with a pen?
The intentions of the spinner count. -
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 05:22:33
Maybe this is oversimplifying but pen mods are made from pen parts and a large majority are retractable and still able to write....so the mod is still a pen, isnt it? Of course there are shades of "grey" where you get mods which are more "stick" than pen but they're usually still made from pen parts....and then you have my LED mods which are definately stick/batons
As long as it still resembled a pen its 'pen' spinning in my opinion. -
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 05:23:32
stickz, you spin a pencil.
So you're not a Pen Spinner then? -
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 09:19:52
Well, in my opinion, almost every manipulation uses a "special" tool rather then a regular whatever-they-want-to-manipulate. In xcm, you can manipulate your grandma's cards to some degree, like you can spin a regular pen to some degree, but if you really want to get crazy, you need a good deck, that you've broken in yourself, and powdered with the correct amount of fanning powder, no bends no crimps no oil on the cards. Zippo guys do all sorts of adjustments to their zippos, before a lot of their tricks they need some adjusting, meaning they can even combine the tricks because each trick would need a different adjustment. you can't even compare PS to yo-yo, because yo-yo is a tool that was created to do tricks with, it's a skill toy, rubix cube is lubricated etc. So basically anything you would manipulate instead of using it the way "it was supposed to", you would have to alter it in some way to make things more comfortable to you. But of course, your point still stands, what constitutes as a pen and what isn't? I like Kam's views.
QUOTE (kam)To me, if you use a pen that looks and acts like a pen, you get my highest respect (provided you can also spin it well).
Anything with double caps deducts a few respect points
Anything that can't write deducts a few respect points
Anything that doesn't look like a pen deducts a few respect points
Anything that's longer than the distance from your wrist to the tip of your middle finger deducts A LOT of respect points (myself included for using a long pencil back in 2003's Superhandz PS Video) -
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 12:47:46
i actually hotly disagree with kam's view, but thats just me so i won't force my opinion on anyone.
i feel that we should all spin what looks best to us on our hands, as i feel that if pen spinning is to go into the performance industry, meaning we get paid to manipulate our instruments, we need to be able to entertain people. so it has to look good on our hands, and we have to do more 'eye catching' stuff.
just what i think: if the spinners fingers are long in proportion to his hand size, his pen should be long as well, but not too thick. thicker fingers should have shorter, heavier and thicker pens. -
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 13:06:23
No,one say KT.
Well whoever said it said it write, if you apply pen spinning tricks to another object. Then you are penspinning. It was originally called pen spinning because people did with a common object, a pen. We should not change the name.QUOTE (nova/daThroat on 395068 of the 46353 of the 233645)i actually hotly disagree with kam's view, but thats just me so i won't force my opinion on anyone.
Kam didn't comment in this thread, are you talking bout a different one? -
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 13:23:12QUOTE (ShoeMan @ Sep 10 2007, 05:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Well, in my opinion, almost every manipulation uses a "special" tool rather then a regular whatever-they-want-to-manipulate. In xcm, you can manipulate your grandma's cards to some degree, like you can spin a regular pen to some degree, but if you really want to get crazy, you need a good deck, that you've broken in yourself, and powdered with the correct amount of fanning powder, no bends no crimps no oil on the cards. Zippo guys do all sorts of adjustments to their zippos, before a lot of their tricks they need some adjusting, meaning they can even combine the tricks because each trick would need a different adjustment. you can't even compare PS to yo-yo, because yo-yo is a tool that was created to do tricks with, it's a skill toy, rubix cube is lubricated etc. So basically anything you would manipulate instead of using it the way "it was supposed to", you would have to alter it in some way to make things more comfortable to you. But of course, your point still stands, what constitutes as a pen and what isn't? I like Kam's views.
you should probabyl give a link... -
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 14:36:50QUOTE (Tim @ Sep 10 2007, 08:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Kam didn't comment in this thread, are you talking bout a different one?
it was in a thread in UCPSB, and shoeman did put it in quotes(see his post).
don't shoot me!!
i'm just expressing personal opinion.
if it offends anyone i apologize.
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Date: Tue, Sep 11 2007 02:16:34
Look at it this way; if you were spinning with a pen that couldn't write, wouldn't you feel kind of stupid. Whereas many people carry a pen with them all the time. People generally do not take drum sticks and other useless objects wherever they go. Its this kind of dual functionality that makes it art to me. Before I took up pen spinning I had this Zebra F-301 Ultra that I took literally everywhere. It became a part of me. Therefore when I took up psing and traded my zebra for an MX it was as if I was training a part of me. So to me, learning a new pen trick is like learning an acrobatic movement that you can perform anytime anywhere, usually regardless of the circumstances.
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Date: Tue, Sep 11 2007 02:36:56
I use an MX that can't write. I use G2s to write. Anyway, here are my thoughts:
All of us here learn an art known as pen spinning. We learn the tricks, combos, naming, notation, etc, all under the art of pen spinning. If we then apply all of those skills to another object, such as a toothbrush, that is pen spinning. However, if for example, I became extremely proficient in spinning my toothbrush, the to the point where I've invented new tricks and manipulations, I suppose it could be called toothbrush spinning, with a major influence from pen spinning. That being said, if I'm at a an Asian restaurant and I'm spinning my chopsticks, doing only PSing tricks, that is pen spinning. I guess this is my policy:
UNLESS you exceed the limits of pen spinning while spinning another object, it is still classified as pen spinning. -
Date: Tue, Sep 11 2007 08:15:46QUOTE (cyber penguin @ Sep 11 2007, 10:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Look at it this way; if you were spinning with a pen that couldn't write, wouldn't you feel kind of stupid. Whereas many people carry a pen with them all the time. People generally do not take drum sticks and other useless objects wherever they go. Its this kind of dual functionality that makes it art to me.
Well said, well said indeed. I agree with everything cybird said.
@Nova... I am a very merciless man. However, do not test my limits again. YOU UNDERSTAND!!!
J/K