UPSB v3
General Discussion / Speed Modding
An idea
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Date: Tue, Apr 22 2008 17:00:04
So in the SpinZ thread, I see a lot of ppl saying how modding is essential to pen spinning, but for me the two discplines could almost be treated seperately.
Then I thought, while it is true that you don't have to mod a pen to be able to pen spin, it seems hard to believe someone would mod pens without any interest in pen spinning.
So here I am thinking, what could you possibly do with pen modding which is not directly related to pen spinning?
The first is the idea of pen modding battles, where ppl create new mods that have are judged by creativity, effiency (price of the pen), reliability and of course spinability. But that has been done before.
So here's another idea: speed modding.
It is exactly what it sounds like. Make a video of you modding as fast as possible. I think this should be feasible for relatively simple mods. Like everybody know how to do the RSVP MX, but wouldn't it be interesting to know who can do it the fastest?
Of course there are a few questions to be answered, such as what's the initial setup. People have different tools so it wouldn't be fair if everything were allowed. Also you need make sure everybody start at the same point. i.e.: start with all the stock pens + all the tools on the screen.
Videos have to show the whole modding process of course.
I think this sort of competition would work well because ppl have different ways of doing things that might be faster than others. Some ppl might be really good at poking a hole in the backcap of an RSVP, for instance. Maybe they found a nice trick to it. Also if you make a mistake, that'll cost you some time. And you have to work under pressure. Therefore it takes skills to mod very fast.
One problem though is that some pens are not consistent in its properties. For instance, the grip of the HGG is sometimes hard to pull off, sometimes not.
It would work well "live" as well. Perhaps even better.
What do you think? -
Date: Tue, Apr 22 2008 17:33:47
Heh, i've actually talked to iMatt about this...not so much about a competition but more of along the lines of speed modding.
Would the quality of the final product be a factor or is this purely based on speed? Because if we're making an MX i could just skip putting teflon tape on the rsvp and screw the HGG tip directly onto the plastic but doing so is not nearly as durable as if you bothered to use teflon tape. -
Date: Tue, Apr 22 2008 17:38:17
yea I would think the quality of the pen affects the result. however that's very difficult to evaluate... although since you see all the steps, you could figure out how good the final product is. that would require some pretty knowledgeable judges though.
another form of competition would be to completely disassemble a mod and reassemble it in the fastest time. we have to make sure everybody starts with the same pen (same components) though. which is fairly easy to check because at the moment the pen is fully disassembled, you can count that all the parts are there. also less expensive to compete in.
another challenge would be to mod SEVERAL mods in one video. maybe one would go about it by modding each mod at a time, but if the mods share parts from overlapping pens, you might want to mod several steps of different mods at once because they're all related to the same pen and that would make it faster... could involve some strategy there. -
Date: Tue, Apr 22 2008 17:46:55
actually you dont even need to evaluate the quality of the mod, you can just make specific requirements.
before each battle you list the mods to be made and what each mod must contain. If someone misses a step, then his video is invalid. That way, you can specify if teflon is a required element or not. -
Date: Tue, Apr 22 2008 17:57:40
Specific steps would solve some problems. Now the only small obstacle i see is monetary because not everyone can afford to make multiple mods or even the same mod over and over again since everyone will be trying to get the fastest time possible and if they screw up they have to start all over again. This isnt an issue for some people but for people wanting to compete it might pose a problem.
edit: Although i suppose the disassembly and reassembly of mods might solve the money issue. -
Date: Tue, Apr 22 2008 18:00:23QUOTE (Zombo @ Apr 22 2008, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>yea I would think the quality of the pen affects the result. however that's very difficult to evaluate... although since you see all the steps, you could figure out how good the final product is. that would require some pretty knowledgeable judges though.
another form of competition would be to completely disassemble a mod and reassemble it in the fastest time. we have to make sure everybody starts with the same pen (same components) though. which is fairly easy to check because at the moment the pen is fully disassembled, you can count that all the parts are there. also less expensive to compete in.
another challenge would be to mod SEVERAL mods in one video. maybe one would go about it by modding each mod at a time, but if the mods share parts from overlapping pens, you might want to mod several steps of different mods at once because they're all related to the same pen and that would make it faster... could involve some strategy there.
My friend and I tried assembling and disassembling 3 RSVPs and Ballsign Mod before. It was pretty fun in the beginning but got a little boring later on. Sometimes we mess up when putting inktube in. I think my fastest record for assembling 3 RSVPs were 28 seconds and 16 seconds for disassembling. For Ballsign Mod I forgot... -
Date: Tue, Apr 22 2008 18:04:03
well thats the thing,
because modding is expensive, ppl won't attempt to film over and over again like in PSing. Therefore you're competing under pressure because you know you have limited chances. Even if you make some mistakes, you'll probably still hand in that video.
Also I think that you'll only be very competitive if you have modded a lot and have a lot of experience already, so that means you probably already have a lot of pens. Plus it's not like you're losing anything. Even if you mess up, those mods are still complete and sellable.
and also we could be careful in our choice of mod to not take anything overly complex/expensive -
Date: Tue, Apr 22 2008 18:15:07QUOTE (Zombo @ Apr 22 2008, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>also we could be careful in our choice of mod to not take anything overly complex/expensive
Speed modding Bictories is rather fun imo (and cheap!). I had to make 5 bictories for friends so i timed myself for fun a long time ago...i forgot to stop the stopwatch though so by the time i noticed it was already at least 5 minutes after i was done D: -
Date: Tue, Apr 22 2008 18:17:16
i'd rather have to mod different mods rather than several of the same... less tedious.
and more fun if, like i said, the mods share the same pens. more strategic. -
Date: Tue, Apr 22 2008 20:11:19
Nice idea.
Hey K4S, wanna battle me in modding an MX as fast as possible? :D Make a thread about it in the battlezone if you want please :) -
Date: Tue, Apr 22 2008 21:51:51
I wrote some rules for a Bictory contest. Let me what you think. If people like this idea, I'll make a contest with prizes hopefully.
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Submit a video showing the initial setup, the whole modding process, and the final product. Each person can submit an unlimited number of videos, at any time.
The fastest video becomes the current "record". People then have 1 month to submit a faster video. If no one can surpass that video within a month from the moment that video was submitted, the creator of that video is declared the winner. If someone submits a faster video, that one becomes the new record which must stay on top for 1 month.
Preparation:
The video must first show each pen individually, to verify that they are real bics. Press on the tip and backplug to show they are firmly secured. The clip of the cap should also be straight and not partially cut. It must be a new, unmodded, bic. At this point, the timer has not started yet, so you can take your time doing all the preparation.
Then the video must show the initial setup.
Initial setup:
- A clock/timer, which is clearly ticking and showing "seconds"
- X bic round stics (depending on the category, see below)
- Scissors and/or pliers and/or chopstick
- Hands must be off-screen.
As soon as the hands enter the screen, the official timer for the attempt starts.
The video must show the whole modding process. Use this for reference: http://www.upsb.info/wiki/index.php/Bictory. You do not need to file the clips or put grips on. You also do not need to follow the steps indicated in that tutorial, as long as the final product is the same as the mod described in that tutorial.
All mod parts must stay on the screen at all times. If a tool leaves the screen, you cannot use it again.
As soon as the mod(s) is finished, the timer is stopped when the following final setup is achieved.
Final setup:
- The same clock/timer
- X complete BICtories
- Hands must be off-screen.
Categories
There will be 3 individually kept records. They are run seperately and entries are submitted for each category seperately.
- 1 bictory
- 5 bictories
- 10 bictories
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What do you think? -
Date: Tue, Apr 22 2008 21:56:47
@sfsr: I'll think about it...we would need some rules and i really need to get my ass moving and finish my tutorials
@Zombo: How would you take off the back plug with scissors only?
...cutting the whole barrel with scissors seems a little sloppy. -
Date: Tue, Apr 22 2008 21:57:08
C'mon Zombo, you can't expect us to make a Bictory with only scissors!
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Date: Tue, Apr 22 2008 21:59:13
Bahh.
I can make BICtories with only my hands =/. -
Date: Tue, Apr 22 2008 22:01:27
hmm... just smash the back end with your hands/back of the scissors?
it doesn't matter really, if everybody agree another tool should be there, we can add it... I guess you guys want pliers? -
Date: Tue, Apr 22 2008 22:06:37
how about the traditional chop stick method? ;D
...so add a chopstick or some sort of stick so help push out the back plug.
edit: how about scissors or pliers? I'd prefer pliers actually. Or maybe just allow any tools they want...the more tools they use the more time wasted so it would be strategy to pick which tools to use to be the most efficient? -
Date: Tue, Apr 22 2008 22:06:37
pliers would be nice.
for a timer could we use a cup stacking thing? -
Date: Tue, Apr 22 2008 22:18:36
ok I'll add pliers + chopsticks.
I don't liek the idea of not restricting tools, sounds like ppl would easily exploit it...
cup stacking timer would be nice. unfortunately not everybody has one. -
Date: Tue, Apr 22 2008 22:38:56
I think there should be something like a drop test after making the mod to make sure its made right.
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Date: Tue, Apr 22 2008 22:40:13
What about pen racing? Do a series of tricks and see who can do it the fastest?
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Date: Wed, Apr 23 2008 00:02:22
Yea i think this has alot of potential, if there is a contest ill participate even tho i suck at modding.
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Date: Wed, Apr 23 2008 01:06:32
When I make a Bictory I use my teeth and hands =D
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Date: Wed, Apr 23 2008 02:14:33
I just talked to Penwish and he agreed to sponsoring this tournament.
This means we'd definitely have a prize, what do you guys say? wanna give it a shot? -
Date: Wed, Apr 23 2008 04:04:41
Hell yea this'll be freaking epic. Even though I'll probablly lose XD
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Date: Wed, Apr 23 2008 06:25:26QUOTEInitial setup:
The video must start by showing the following elements on the screen:
- A clock/timer, which is clearly ticking and showing "seconds"
- X bic round stics (depending on the category, see below)
- Scissors and/or pliers and/or chopstick
- Hands must be off-screen.
how about we start with hands in the screen holding the pens and showing to the camera that the pen is fully 'worthy'. like before we start, you could make rules like:
-show the camera that the backplug is fully plugged in.
-show the camera that the inktube is fully inside the pen.
and then after you show the camera that the bic is 'worthy,' you must take your hand of the screen to show that you are ready**. wait about ~5 second then begin.
**before you leave the screen to show that you are ready or to show that it is done(at the end), we should have a hand sign we have to do to clearly show that you are finished. something simple as 'peace sign'
what would happen if you drop something out of the screen? eg. you drop the bic you are working on off the table. would that be disqualification? -
Date: Wed, Apr 23 2008 06:34:56
If i participate i'll probably go find my rubik cube timer...the one where you have to touch both hands on each side to get it to start and stop. Are those even allowed Zombo?
And thinking of rubik cube timers gave me an idea...instead of a clock how about we use the timer on http://www.cubetimer.com/ ? -
Date: Wed, Apr 23 2008 12:06:27
I haven't even modded one pen yet
Will be making a bictory tommrow
Cool contest. I'll see if my camera is workingg.
ZOMBO YOU RULE !! -
Date: Wed, Apr 23 2008 12:40:12
ok,
you should show all the bics to make sure they're legit by pressing on the inktube, backplug.
then you leave your hand offscreen, as soon as they start on screen, the timer start.
and you dont need a sign to say that you're done, because as soon as we see your hand leave the screen, with all the mods finished, thats when the timer stop.
if anything goes off screen (completely), you're disqualified. it's your responsability to make sure you control everything. This means that the category of 10 bictories has this problem of managing space. plus you'd waste so much time trying to get it back on the screen.
you should probably use something to delimit the boundaries of your camera's field of vision on the table so that you know exactly what you can't cross.
Penwish tells me he expects the record for a single bictory to be under 30 seconds. -
Date: Wed, Apr 23 2008 12:47:10
ok. i forgot to ask this before. are we allow to use more than our hands? can we use different parts of our body?
QUOTEyou should show all the bics to make sure they're legit by pressing on the inktube, backplug.
we also need to show the camera that the pen is actual bic right? there alot of fake ones that looks exactly like bic since its a really simple pen.QUOTEif anything goes off screen (completely), you're disqualified.
is that including the tools? how about the rule is if the tools goes off the screen, you cannot use it again. if you use it again after it goes off the screen, you are disqualified. just so if you make your bic but you drop your scissors at the very end, it doesn't fuck up the whole hard work. -
Date: Wed, Apr 23 2008 13:01:20
yea as long as the modding process stay on the screen.
however if you use your head it might block the view -
Date: Wed, Apr 23 2008 13:14:38
good ideas, your tools start on the screen, when you're finished using one of them, you can put them away off screen.
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Date: Wed, Apr 23 2008 16:37:50
So uh...are rubik cube timers allowed? What about that online timer?
Are video's made public right away or do they stay hidden so people who have neat tricks up their sleeve keep those secrets until final results are posted?
When we prove the bics are real, we just hold it up in front of the camera (showing the barrel writing) and poke the back plug to show it's still glued in there? What about people with crap cameras who hold up the pen but it doesnt focus properly so you cant actually see the "bic stic" writing on the barrel? -
Date: Wed, Apr 23 2008 16:50:26
i dont know rubik timers work but if you can start and stop it with pens on top of it and hands off-screen, then OK.
but really, the purpose of the clock/timer is to show that your video is not accelerated, not to take the time.
We take time from the video itself by looking how long the video starting from the moment the hands are on screen to the moment they leave the screen.
and since this is a record-type competition, I would imagine the videos are revealed asap. Guiness record attempts are made public cause its more fun for the audience right? If there was a set deadline, then it would be hidden, but not here. And anyway, it's a competition of bictories, so I think it's more about skills than tricks.
plus, if they're public, everybody can check and make sure they're legit.
If your camera sucks, thats not my problem. If I can't tell what you're doing, then it's refused. -
Date: Wed, Apr 23 2008 19:54:49
I only have two new round stics >__>
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Date: Wed, Apr 23 2008 20:06:41
I thought of a similar concept...
I figure... to judge the best modding, why not give a list of pens and give the contestants time to think about it, then see who can make the most mods with a certain set of pens.
Say, each person has 2 RSVPs, 2 HGGS, 2 G-2s, and 2 Bic Sticks. Whoever has the least leftover parts, more mods, and the best time could then be declared winner. Difficulty of mods, creativity, quality, style, and more could be used in determining winners. Even a shorter set of pens, such as three different pens, could be used in this style of competing.
Just a thought.
To me, speed modding isn't exactly a valuable skill to practice unless you're selling mods. However, everyone could benefit from learning how to use all parts of many pens in creating mods and then be able to see new ways of using them, leading to new mods being created in the future.
Also, another style that could go along with all of this, would be to give a list of pens and see who can make a new, and most stylish or creative mod with them. Say, give them a few pens and say "Make a mechanical pencil mod that is fully functional with a twist eraser as part of the mod."
Just brainstorming. -
Date: Wed, Apr 23 2008 22:22:45
well square, what you're proposing has already been done. it's basically a "mod battle" with a theme. in my first post I wrote that such idea alrady existed, that's why I wanted to put out something new.
Speed modding may not be valuable to pen spinning, but my point was to prove that modding and spinning could be independent disciplines. They don't have to benefit one another. When you're doing inserts, cutting grips in a funny way, you're not really helping the spinning right? It's something that belongs to the discipline of modding.
Although you could say that speed modding make you think faster, make your hands better... improve your dexterity
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Date: Thu, Apr 24 2008 04:12:34
at the end. after the person finish and take our hand from the screen. shouldn't the person show the camera the quality of the bic? show the camera that:
-the cap is fully capped on by just holding the barrel and shaking it.
-the inktube and backplug is fully inside by taking the cap off and shaking the barrel (just holding the barrel)
doesn't matter how fast you do it if the bic isn't even made properly. -
Date: Thu, Apr 24 2008 12:31:58
that should be obvious when watching the person put it on.
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Date: Thu, Apr 24 2008 13:33:28
Bic Round Stics are the only widely available pens. eg. North American's get HGGs easy, and us Aussies can't get RSVPs easily. So â–¡, your idea doesn't work entirely.