UPSB v3
Philosophy / large vs. small pens~
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Date: Fri, May 9 2008 00:00:18
i did not find this in the search, but if it has already been posted or is in the wrong section, please move/close this topic------------
should the size/weight of the pen be taken into consideration, when judging someone's spinning?
say for example, there are two spinners: one of the spinners is using an (unmodified) comssa, while the other is using a Dr.KT. Both spinners do the exact same combo, with the exact same fluidity/speed/style. Should the spinner of the comssa be given the vote because he was spinning with a pen that is usually considered more difficult to spin with, regardless of his choosing to spin with a lighter pen and sacrifice some of his presentation? imo, both spinners should be graded on how they spun, rather than what they spun. -
Date: Fri, May 9 2008 00:16:26
I'm going to put this in terms that was brought to me when iMatt and I were arguing this with some other people.
When spinning a heavy pen once you get its momentum going its extremely easy to keep said momentum (e.g. cont. tricks etc.) When spinning a lighter pen you can accelerate it faster, yet you have to keep that acceleration going with more force (compensating for the loss of momentum), which makes the pen harder to spin.
I didn't say it exactly like that at first but theres the basic idea, so yes if two people had those circumstances I would vote for the person that had the lighter pen. Also, I believe this argument can be argued till the end of time, so I'm leaving it at that. -
Date: Fri, May 9 2008 00:39:56QUOTE (sangara @ May 8 2008, 07:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I'm going to put this in terms that was brought to me when iMatt and I were arguing this with some other people.
When spinning a heavy pen once you get its momentum going its extremely easy to keep said momentum (e.g. cont. tricks etc.) When spinning a lighter pen you can accelerate it faster, yet you have to keep that acceleration going with more force (compensating for the loss of momentum), which makes the pen harder to spin.
I didn't say it exactly like that at first but theres the basic idea, so yes if two people had those circumstances I would vote for the person that had the lighter pen. Also, I believe this argument can be argued till the end of time, so I'm leaving it at that.
everyone knows that it is easier (most of the time?) to spin with a heavier pen, but if the spinner chooses to use it, why should it be counted against them? if anything, i would vote against them because of the lack of speed (from spinning a heavier pen) rather than the fact that they spun a "fake" pen (e.g. Dr.KT). -
Date: Fri, May 9 2008 01:50:29
Well.....it takes more skill to spin a lighter pen...
i mean....i bet the person who could do that combo with a comssa could do it even easier if they used the KT....
on the other hand....the person with the KT might not be able to...
sooo...ya
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Date: Fri, May 9 2008 02:13:13
This is exactly the purpose of modding pens...
Obviously it'll be easier to spin a heavier mod. But personal preference comes in play too. You'll come across spinners with small hands and only like to spin small (short/thin) pens. Or you might come across spinners with uber huge hands that only like to spin large (Big/thick) pens. So this whole large vs small pens is all about Personal preference -
Date: Fri, May 9 2008 03:09:07
IMO the combo done with the Dr. KT would be LESS difficult, thus the comssa combo would win in difficulty
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Date: Fri, May 9 2008 03:16:53QUOTE (sangara @ May 8 2008, 05:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I'm going to put this in terms that was brought to me when iMatt and I were arguing this with some other people.
When spinning a heavy pen once you get its momentum going its extremely easy to keep said momentum (e.g. cont. tricks etc.) When spinning a lighter pen you can accelerate it faster, yet you have to keep that acceleration going with more force (compensating for the loss of momentum), which makes the pen harder to spin.
I didn't say it exactly like that at first but theres the basic idea, so yes if two people had those circumstances I would vote for the person that had the lighter pen. Also, I believe this argument can be argued till the end of time, so I'm leaving it at that.
heheh...
well if it was under those circumstances, where both spinners did exactly the same thing, obviously the comssa spinner would have had a harder time. however, if the two spinners were of the same skill level, then the KT spinner would likely have performed a more difficult combo using his KT, and thus it would result in a tie -
Date: Fri, May 9 2008 06:49:54
choosing to spin a difficult mod is like choosing to perform a difficult trick
you could just spam tricks with aesthetic appeal and your combo would look just as good as his combo and be much easier
thats not what its about though. i believe it should be taken into consideration -
Date: Fri, May 9 2008 08:42:27
I do think that this goes under the category of difficulty but not to the degree of actually performing difficult tricks.
I do believe that if you can perform a certain trick with a heavy mod that it's easy to do with-you can perform the trick also with a lighter mod, ofc it takes some practice but not so much as if it were learning the trick from scratch. -
Date: Fri, May 9 2008 11:27:51
but you couldnt just say that small pens are hard to spin so they win....
if i put in a way that, 2 person are doing exactly the same thing with a same small pen....but one has larger hands, but one has smaller hands, the who win this time? larger hands cant spin a small pen easily, but small hands can spin small pens with ease. then do u mean now the one with larger hands win this time??
large hands with large mods=suitable for them, so its nothing special
small hands with small mods=suitable for them, so its nothing special
large hands with small mods=harder for them, so its better
small hands with large mods=very easy for the spinner, so its worse
that means large versus small pens, the pen doesnt matter so much, its for the pens to suit their hand sizes, and thats what i think winning is....
erhem, but if u could spin a bonkoras combo smoothly with a pilot g2, now thats skill...
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Date: Fri, May 9 2008 17:43:06
I find small mods look better personally, but just spin what you want as long as it isn't like 30cm :-/, I got small hands and spin a japanese pencil mod which is about 22cms, it's fine, and I'm horrible at spinning smaller pens like bics but it's all about habit, and what you find looks better
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Date: Sat, May 10 2008 00:32:01QUOTE (loonwern93 @ May 9 2008, 06:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>but you couldnt just say that small pens are hard to spin so they win....
if i put in a way that, 2 person are doing exactly the same thing with a same small pen....but one has larger hands, but one has smaller hands, the who win this time? larger hands cant spin a small pen easily, but small hands can spin small pens with ease. then do u mean now the one with larger hands win this time??
large hands with large mods=suitable for them, so its nothing special
small hands with small mods=suitable for them, so its nothing special
large hands with small mods=harder for them, so its better
small hands with large mods=very easy for the spinner, so its worse
that means large versus small pens, the pen doesnt matter so much, its for the pens to suit their hand sizes, and thats what i think winning is....
erhem, but if u could spin a bonkoras combo smoothly with a pilot g2, now thats skill...
agreed, however large doesn't usually mean heavy, ill say other than size, weight also matter .
just like what sangara said.
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Date: Tue, May 13 2008 04:50:44
Lets not turn this into another. Dr. KT is a noob pen and MX is gay. or MX doesnt look cool enough etc. etc. etc.
Personally, IMO, i think smaller pens look much better and require a much higher skill level -
Date: Tue, May 13 2008 13:35:39
In my opinion, I prefer how the trick is executed rather than the pen itself. If you spin with a light pen(eg comssa) and performed an awesome trick and did the exact thing with a heavy pen(eg dr kt) i personally wouldn't vote for the comssa just due to the pen weight they have which some people do. Basically, the better the trick is performed with the preferred pen you like than yeah go for that.
For me, I spin with Bonkura KT because its easy for me to learn tricks which i could use on my MSXA later which is light. In my example, i prefer long pens since my fingers are long. -
Date: Tue, May 13 2008 19:02:49QUOTE (Viper-X @ May 13 2008, 06:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>In my opinion, I prefer how the trick is executed rather than the pen itself. If you spin with a light pen(eg comssa) and performed an awesome trick and did the exact thing with a heavy pen(eg dr kt) i personally wouldn't vote for the comssa just due to the pen weight they have which some people do. Basically, the better the trick is performed with the preferred pen you like than yeah go for that.
For me, I spin with Bonkura KT because its easy for me to learn tricks which i could use on my MSXA later which is light. In my example, i prefer long pens since my fingers are long.
well thats very true but it also depends on the person and his skill.... -
Date: Wed, May 14 2008 03:58:54
Why does it matter...
Someone can just mod a pen without telling you, making it extremely heavy but to the naked eye would appear as a normal pen.
So people could put weights in F-3000 caps and spin them extremely good, and they would get votes over people spinning with a KT for the wrong reasons.
I think this is why pens shouldn't matter at all. -
Date: Wed, May 14 2008 14:58:12QUOTE (Scott Shaputis @ May 13 2008, 11:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Why does it matter...
Someone can just mod a pen without telling you, making it extremely heavy but to the naked eye would appear as a normal pen.
So people could put weights in F-3000 caps and spin them extremely good, and they would get votes over people spinning with a KT for the wrong reasons.
I think this is why pens shouldn't matter at all.
/agree -
Date: Thu, May 15 2008 05:53:12
I maintain that a penspinning combo should be judged first and foremost on it's aesthetic appeal. Therefore, should two spinners execute the same combo in exactly the same manner, but with different pens, the superior combo would have been performed by the spinner with the most aesthetic pen. Obviously this is an extremely subjective distinction, and must be assessed by each viewer for themself on a case by case basis.
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Date: Sat, May 17 2008 19:24:53
hmmm, i found it easier to do baks on my bictory than mx...fluke mabe?
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Date: Sun, May 18 2008 18:25:23QUOTE (000zero0000 @ May 17 2008, 11:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>hmmm, i found it easier to do baks on my bictory than mx...fluke mabe?
No, thats just a personal preference on weight distribution.
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Date: Sun, May 18 2008 22:04:52
Off-Topic: OMG when i saw the title topic i seriously thought it said large vs small penis... not kidding...
On-Topic: Well, if someone were to spin an umodded rsvp as opposed to a KT at the same level, would you not vote for the person who spun the RSVP? I mean you can tell its way more difficult. David Weis spins a pencil right? Isn't that what he is most noted for? Im sure people would vote for him in a battle just because he can do things with a pencil that you cant. Whereas everyone's skill level is like bumped up a level because of this monster momentum from spinning a KT, but what also annoys me is that some people are flamed for spinning a KT whereas others like Bonkura and Scott aren't... Thats not fair. -
Date: Sun, May 18 2008 23:58:17
Umm perverted mind much??
Yea i agree with you though I think that the difficulty level of the pen you are spinning is a huge part of it. -
Date: Mon, May 19 2008 02:54:06QUOTE (StIcKyTaK @ May 18 2008, 05:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>whereas others like Bonkura and Scott aren't... Thats not fair.
I get shit for it a lot. -
Date: Mon, May 19 2008 02:59:34QUOTE (Scott Shaputis @ May 13 2008, 11:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Why does it matter...
Someone can just mod a pen without telling you, making it extremely heavy but to the naked eye would appear as a normal pen.
So people could put weights in F-3000 caps and spin them extremely good, and they would get votes over people spinning with a KT for the wrong reasons.
I think this is why pens shouldn't matter at all.
That's probably one of the best reasons for not judging spinner on their pens, we can't tell how easy it is to spin from it's looks alone. -
Date: Mon, May 19 2008 19:27:09
I personaly tyr to spin wiht differnet wiehgt mods as much as possible. Mainly, I prefer a plain old unmodded pencil, or a simple bictory. But I do have a few pencil mods.
My heaviest mod: Get two pencils, and stick them together wiht a grip. Massivley longat 385mm and spins well becuase of momentum. However, you need to stop your fingers getting in the way, soemtimes I ge thtis while doing charge.
My lightest mod: When you make a bictory, you are left with to end caps and a barrel... which I use for areally light mod, mucht lighter than a pencil. I don't like it much, but it's ok.
So yeah, I like all sorts, and rnadomyl switch between them to keep variety in my spinning. -
Date: Fri, May 23 2008 00:22:28
I would have to say the pen should not be taken into consideration. If it really was a problem, then it should be mentioned before a battle that a certain pen is to be used, or a certain pen is banned;x.
The pen a person uses is his choice and no one elses, we`re not forcing him/her to use that pen, s/he chose to himself. If a certain pen makes your spinning look better, then by all means use it. You can`t really argue that so and so used a pen that`s easier to spin with because you could use that exact same pen.
To sum it up: all that matters is the spinning and nothing else. -
Date: Fri, May 23 2008 01:04:24
If you like how a KT spins, use it. I don't think it should be counted in for making a combo easier when judging..
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Date: Tue, Jun 3 2008 05:18:41
In my opinion it's all about the spinning. I used to use unsharpened pencils when I didn't know about mods, and I learned quite a few moves. MASTERED a few moves. Even infinity. I moved onto pen mods, and I got worse. Didn't know why. It just took a while to get used to.
This is also implied from other arguments.
There's a battle. One spinner is using a KT, one is using an unsharpened pencil. They both score the same, but one gets deductions for using a KT.
No. Just no. That makes no sense.
I think it just takes a while to get used to. If you ONLY spun pencils for a week, you'd get used to it. Then if you later tried to spin a pen, you could do worse. Again. If there were a battle, then eventually people would stop using pen mods because they get deductions, if they really care about if they win or lose. Everyone would be using pencils, and then there would be no use for pen mods. I have a lot of arguments in my head but they're not fully ready to tell so I'll post more later. -
Date: Thu, Aug 14 2008 12:21:21
I use a MSXA so i prefer long and thin pens. I guess.
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Date: Fri, Aug 29 2008 01:44:59
can a "pen" made of mainly pen parts, be to long/short to be accepted?
im asking, because ive heard it should be the size of your hand (bottom of palm, to top of middle finger)...
and for me, anything bigger than a g2 is to big -.-
discuss
((
if been done, delete
if in wrong place, move
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Date: Fri, Aug 29 2008 01:52:48
A cm or two below your hand is okay, as long as it doesn't look like a baton, its ok in my book.
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Date: Fri, Aug 29 2008 02:20:12
My pens are about 23cm I think. Too long for some, but just right for me. It's longer than my hand, but that's how I like it.
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Date: Fri, Aug 29 2008 02:21:11
If it's shorter than a MX, it's too short
Well at least for me it is -
Date: Sat, Aug 30 2008 02:30:54
All pens are fine, you should take into count the difficulty of tricks, just becuase someones using a huge pen thats easy to spin doesnt mean he can do an inverse sonic reverse fall without skillz...
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Date: Sun, Aug 31 2008 05:05:54
i spin 3 pens.
namae mod
mx
mx^2
theyre all around 18-19.5 cm. not that long, not that short.
but i really like my namae mod. that barrels fat and it feels kinda like a bic barrell with less sliding.
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Date: Sun, Aug 31 2008 19:30:45
I spin a homemade mod, looks clean, isnt humongus, and its length is made up but weight
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Date: Thu, Sep 4 2008 15:31:33
OP makes it sound like if spinning a light pen didn't have advantages as well. Well, sure, tricks are generally more easy to learn with a relatively heavy pen, but there are some advantages as well to using light pens. Speed is one of them.
I suck at spinning light pens (mainly because, like the majority of new french spinners, my first mod was a Grip Aviaire, and I'm still a beginner) but I quite like the feeling of my newly acquired Japanese Pencil Mod; it's just... a different sensation. Every pen mod has advantages and disadvantages, it's the reason why there are several different ones.
On a side note altough, I'm not sure if single-capped-mods fans actually like the spinning sensation of single caps or just use them because of esthetic preference, like if they were thinking that double capped mods would denature penspinning and that mod asymetry was a part of this manipulative art. Should this influence judging? -
Date: Fri, Sep 5 2008 09:48:22
I decided to spin smaller pens instead of long ones because basically normal pens aren't that long and I like light pens because I don't like the feeling of heavy pens, first of all it hurts so yeah <.< then when you do a sonic for example there is so much momentum that the pen tries to continue and won't stop so I like pens like the MX, ballsign, comssa.
It's all habit and personal preference but somebody with 23cm hands should spin something that fits his hand size, my hands are small so I try not to go over 19cm. -
Date: Fri, Sep 5 2008 11:59:28
i dont spin anything over 19cm
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Date: Fri, Sep 5 2008 14:49:17
All I could say is that comssa would win in terms of difficulty,since the Dr KT is way longer, plus it has more momentum. Thus,the comssa spinner would win in terms of difficulty. So even if they did the exact same thing, THe person who spun with the comssa would definitely Win,because the only difference they had was the difficulty and the comssa guy wins that part.
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Date: Fri, Sep 5 2008 23:29:20
yes but they the idea is that, for the most part, the KT spinner doesn't pull out the same difficulty combo as the comssa spinner. At least, they shouldn't. If they do, they should be spinning a comssa...
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Date: Sat, Sep 6 2008 21:41:51
A person who spins a comssa doesn't make him more skilled...
If a person spun a pencil and did amazing tricks, that doesn't mean he can take a KT and do the same tricks...
The pen you spin, is the pen that you prefer...
Just because a pen is heavier and has more momentum is only preferable fer some people, I find the KT feels hollow and empty...
not only that but they aren't even really pens... - _ - -
Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 01:04:52
Its all about personal preference IMO. You wouldn't know if the KT spinner can spin a Comssa just as well as he/she would spin the KT.
Also, it's about how the spinner would develop their spinning. If a new member was only allowed to use a ballsign to spin, and was aware that the ballsign was the only mod in the world, he/she would probably find a metallic comssa too heavy.
Then again, everybody is different. Someone may find it very difficult to spin a KT because they lack to power to push it, but find it easy to keep a comssa moving smoothly using quick, frequent and weak pushed. -
Date: Sun, Feb 15 2009 09:00:16
Also, what is considered "small" and what is considered "large" also counts...
Obviously two pens superglued together doesnt count, but you can make 30 cm mods, and im guessing thats "large" but what is small exactly? Mini Pens? 20 cm?
That all depends.
Reflex, muscle strength, and hand/finger size all count.
Although, im not sure what is the use of a large, light mod, (someone suggested it on page one) -
Date: Sun, Feb 15 2009 17:01:51
I always say the bigger the pen is the harder it gets, sometimes it causes pain if your pen is is to long because of the pressure and weight of it when its moving.
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Date: Tue, Feb 17 2009 14:01:57QUOTE (sadi teh pirate @ May 9 2008, 08:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i did not find this in the search, but if it has already been posted or is in the wrong section, please move/close this topic------------
should the size/weight of the pen be taken into consideration, when judging someone's spinning?
say for example, there are two spinners: one of the spinners is using an (unmodified) comssa, while the other is using a Dr.KT. Both spinners do the exact same combo, with the exact same fluidity/speed/style. Should the spinner of the comssa be given the vote because he was spinning with a pen that is usually considered more difficult to spin with, regardless of his choosing to spin with a lighter pen and sacrifice some of his presentation? imo, both spinners should be graded on how they spun, rather than what they spun.
Either impossible or the spinner is a pro stalker IMO.
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Date: Tue, Feb 17 2009 17:05:44
I agree with Metalm3, we are talking about a VERY unlikely situation here.
I will add more later, g2g -
Date: Tue, Feb 17 2009 22:12:48
honestly, i think in the situation that started this whole clusterf**k i'd just null my vote close my laptop, and go eat something.
there's too much thought put into this whole thing, i mean seriously.
but really if i would have to vote i'd check both spinners history first, if the comssa user has been spinning longer and been winning battles more then i'd vote for the kt user. if not my vote goes to the comssa user -
Date: Thu, Feb 19 2009 06:59:08
Spinnerpeem spins Buster CYL
Minwoo spins Dr. KT
But they do amazing combo's which are, yes, difficult.gif)
personal preferance!!!
Spinning should be rated on spinning... not pen
If those unmodded pencil spinners want to change to KT's and do 20 busts in 10 sces they can, what's stopping them?!?!
all said, we should all spin KT's or Buster CYL if we want to with no consequence. -
Date: Sat, Mar 28 2009 11:18:17
PERSONALLY i would vote the comssa guy bcs he spun a pen that is unmodded and would be harder and modded pen has more momentum xspeacialy dr kt
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Date: Sat, Mar 28 2009 11:29:14QUOTE (sadi teh pirate @ May 8 2008, 08:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i did not find this in the search, but if it has already been posted or is in the wrong section, please move/close this topic------------
should the size/weight of the pen be taken into consideration, when judging someone's spinning?
say for example, there are two spinners: one of the spinners is using an (unmodified) comssa, while the other is using a Dr.KT. Both spinners do the exact same combo, with the exact same fluidity/speed/style. Should the spinner of the comssa be given the vote because he was spinning with a pen that is usually considered more difficult to spin with, regardless of his choosing to spin with a lighter pen and sacrifice some of his presentation? imo, both spinners should be graded on how they spun, rather than what they spun.
that's hard to answer but, I think whatever happens there is still one better than the other? isn't it? -
Date: Sat, Mar 28 2009 20:10:45
i use bustrer cyl so it large pens ftw!!
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Date: Sat, May 23 2009 02:38:00
I think you should judge combos base on how you personally think they should be judged, and that way the overall public opinion of this topic is reflected in the votes.
If I had to have an opinion about this, I'd say the mod used should be taken into account. For those of you that say someone could just put weights into their pen:
a) you can generally tell how heavy a pen is by the way it looks (depending on camera quality), and
b) if people are cheating by adding weights to their pens and purposely misleading people into thinking it's a lighter mod, they can just as easily use video editing to speed up their combo or film segments of it separately and patch them together. -
Date: Sat, May 23 2009 03:07:12
i prefer large pens like Dr. Kt or Buster Cyl...
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Date: Sat, May 23 2009 03:45:35QUOTE (Malch @ May 22 2009, 10:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think you should judge combos base on how you personally think they should be judged, and that way the overall public opinion of this topic is reflected in the votes.
If I had to have an opinion about this, I'd say the mod used should be taken into account. For those of you that say someone could just put weights into their pen:
a) you can generally tell how heavy a pen is by the way it looks (depending on camera quality), and if people are cheating by adding weights to their pens and purposely misleading people into thinking it's a lighter mod, they can just as easily use video editing to speed up their combo or film segments of it separately and patch them together.
its hard to tell how heavy a pen is just by looks alone, any weight in caps is hidden, sure some pens might look heavy, but you can take a normal light looking pen and add weights in it.
Its a lot easier to mod a pen then to go edit a video, if people patch together videos, others will notice little jumps and what not, and speed up combos are obvious when they do aerial tricks, since gravity provides a constant acceleration. -
Date: Sun, May 24 2009 05:41:19QUOTE (Awesome @ May 23 2009, 11:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>its hard to tell how heavy a pen is just by looks alone, any weight in caps is hidden, sure some pens might look heavy, but you can take a normal light looking pen and add weights in it.
Its a lot easier to mod a pen then to go edit a video, if people patch together videos, others will notice little jumps and what not, and speed up combos are obvious when they do aerial tricks, since gravity provides a constant acceleration.
wow i nver thought of that. good point. tips that are made of cotton
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Date: Sun, May 24 2009 13:45:55QUOTE (Awesome @ May 22 2009, 11:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>its hard to tell how heavy a pen is just by looks alone, any weight in caps is hidden, sure some pens might look heavy, but you can take a normal light looking pen and add weights in it.
Its a lot easier to mod a pen then to go edit a video, if people patch together videos, others will notice little jumps and what not, and speed up combos are obvious when they do aerial tricks, since gravity provides a constant acceleration.
Sorry—when I said "you can generally tell how heavy a pen is by the way it looks," I meant you can tell how heavy it is by the way it behaves while spinning. And I'm pretty sure it's easy to speed up all the parts of a combo except when the pen's in the air. Also, if you use a low quality camera, or one with a low frame rate, it's quite possible to patch together tricks. And I've heard people say SEVEN's combos are edited because of his jerky hand movements; and some people have said Bonkura's videos are edited because of the way his hand moves while doing FP rev... -
Date: Sun, May 24 2009 14:26:35
I used to spin MXs, but my hand's big, so my spinning looked weird. =\ But when i started spinning bigger pens, it looked more normal.
Well, it's just really all personal preference.