UPSB v3

Pen Modifications / "New" Pens Mods Discussion

What does a mod need for it to be considered new?

  1. pholord
    Date: Mon, Jun 16 2008 20:20:22

    This has been a controversial topic for some time now but it seems that recently it has become a more heated argument. As you all know, new pen mod tutorials are released all the time but many people do not consider them new mods because they are too similar to already existed pen mods. Others claim that if "so and so mod" can be considered a new mod then why cant this one? It might not be possible to settle this topic but at least this thread can take the argument away from pen mod tutorials.

    My opinion:
    For a mod to be considered new and deserving of a tutorial it should introduce some completely new such as using new pens or perhaps a new retractable mechanism. Minor modifications should be listed as what they are, not as "My new mod!!11!" To avoid confusion they should not be given a brand new name but rather something added to the original name. For example, SRMX a minor mx modification. Also these guidelines:

    QUOTE
    * Before Making Any Modification Tutorial, Please Post the Pen in the Show Off Your Pens Thread
    o http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=2092
    * If The Community Has an Interest in the Pen, A Tutorial Can Be Made

    should be followed if one is unsure if they should post a new thread or not.


    Discuss

  2. Guitrum
    Date: Mon, Jun 16 2008 20:45:40

    i agree. i also think that tutorials should go through a filtering/judging system of the moderators before being allowed to be posted

  3. tomohiro
    Date: Mon, Jun 16 2008 20:48:35

    QUOTE (Guitrum @ Jun 16 2008, 01:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    i agree. i also think that tutorials should go through a filtering/judging system of the moderators before being allowed to be posted

    i second on that and i remember when guitrum made the right choice on some of his mods wink.gif

  4. Guitrum
    Date: Mon, Jun 16 2008 20:52:47

    QUOTE (tomohiro @ Jun 16 2008, 01:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    i second on that and i remember when guitrum made the right choice on some of his mods wink.gif


    Yup! i disowned my mods because of how shitty they were... the only one that i still have from back then is my comssola and i want to get rid of it.... XD

    the only mods i still consider good and i consider mine, are my G2-CTE and G2-CTE Vortex.

    also, u will find that the only mod on the wiki is the G2-CTE.

    and my sig is limited down to the G2-CTE and G2-CTE Vortex.

    but enough of that, discuss more about pholord's topic

  5. iMatt
    Date: Mon, Jun 16 2008 20:58:24

    I do agree there needs to be some criteria. Right now I'm currently working on a little somethin something regarding pen mods and how they're presented. What we really need are more people who actually read my Tutorial Guidelines Page that's stickied atm. On top of that, Newcomers just get WAY too eager and post their mods thinking it's hot stuff. I honestly think there needs be a restriction on who can make mods.

    1.) Newcomers must have become a MEMBER before being able to start a new topic in Pens And Modifications.
    2.) A Criteria must be filled out saying this is a pen modification and then the Guidelines will be displayed before and after
    3.) There must be some consequence to releasing a mod that has already been made or considered NOT to be a mod. Ex: If tutorial does not meet Guidelines requirements or declared duplicate, a temporary ban may be enforced or warning may be given.

    Those are only a few things I'd really want to see in this section.

  6. iamk34n3
    Date: Mon, Jun 16 2008 21:20:00

    I'm all for having the moderators evaluate your mod before you can post it. However, it may be too much work on them because I remember hearing about it.

  7. K4S
    Date: Mon, Jun 16 2008 21:26:08

    I think it would be more appropriate to have one (main) tutorial section that contains actual new/unique pen mods. And another section that has tutorials for variations of existing pen mods.

    Example:
    "Bictory" would be located in the main tutorial section
    "bictory with rsvp caps replacing the original bic caps" would be located in the variation tutorial section.


    Having 2 different sections would solve a lot of problems imo. And it's usually easy enough to distinguish a new mod from a variation.

  8. sketching
    Date: Mon, Jun 16 2008 23:39:41

    Can anyone talk about what goes on in other PS message boards? Is this an "issue" in any other places?

  9. IAmTheMrGuy
    Date: Mon, Jun 16 2008 23:42:02

    QUOTE (iMatt @ Jun 16 2008, 04:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    I do agree there needs to be some criteria. Right now I'm currently working on a little somethin something regarding pen mods and how they're presented. What we really need are more people who actually read my Tutorial Guidelines Page that's stickied atm. On top of that, Newcomers just get WAY too eager and post their mods thinking it's hot stuff. I honestly think there needs be a restriction on who can make mods.

    1.) Newcomers must have become a MEMBER before being able to start a new topic in Pens And Modifications.
    2.) A Criteria must be filled out saying this is a pen modification and then the Guidelines will be displayed before and after
    3.) There must be some consequence to releasing a mod that has already been made or considered NOT to be a mod. Ex: If tutorial does not meet Guidelines requirements or declared duplicate, a temporary ban may be enforced or warning may be given.

    Those are only a few things I'd really want to see in this section.

    how would you know if the mods been made before unless you've read every single new mod thread dry.gif

  10. pholord
    Date: Mon, Jun 16 2008 23:44:45

    thats why you post it in show off your pens first if you are unsure

  11. IAmTheMrGuy
    Date: Mon, Jun 16 2008 23:47:53

    alright

  12. -JC-
    Date: Tue, Jun 17 2008 00:09:21

    i think that for a mod tutorial to be posted, a picture of the pen must first be put in the show off your pens thread and then if 3-5 people actually ask for a tutorial, then a tutorial should be allowed to be realease (i've already stated this once before, but i'd figure i'd post it here too )
    i don't think any more guidelines should be made to the existing guidelines on hwo to made a tutorial for a mod other than the thing that i mentioned above

    if people watn to see a tutorial for it, like people had wanted to see a tutorial for tek's mx^2 or ayatori's mod---even though one could probably figure that all out themself, then a tutorial should be put out for it even if it's nto a completely new mod (and most of the time, if it's nto a completely new amazing mod, people wont' ask for a tutorial so that's not really a big deal)

    so in addition to following imatt's current guidelines, people should put the number of the posts (the number in the upper right hand corner) in the show off your pens thread of people who had requested for a tutorial

    so...

    Person A: *posts pic* [post 10]
    Person B: wow, i want a tut for that mod [post 11]
    Person C: that's such a bad mod [post 12]
    Person D: TUT NOW!!! [post 13]
    Person E: that's a really nice mod, tut please? [post 14]

    *Person A makes new thread*
    Requested by post # 11, 13, and 14

    [rest of tut]

    i think that's more than enough to decide which mod should a tutorial be made for and which one's not
    i suppose the name of the mod is another issue, but that's more of an individual case for each mod and should be dealt with seperately from this whole issue of 'whcih' mods should a tutorial be made for

  13. Syrn
    Date: Tue, Jun 17 2008 00:49:59

    @jc- I think what would happen is that the same people who are making the other bad mods would be requesting for a new bad mod, and there would be a whole subcommunity of people 1-upping each other just to make their tutorial validated.

    I think there should maybe be a pen modification subsection for new mods, and if they pass the guidelines and seems like a decent mod they get moved to an approved/refined mod list. this way i don't have to search through a million bad mods before i find one that spins well and has a decent tutorial.

    hope my input helped.

    this could be a tedious process because you have to go back in time a bit with the threads but maybe it could be a project collaborating with members given a temporary authoritative gain. I'd propose people like TEK, Pholord, and iMatt, or others chosen by real moderators if the individual was willing...that is if the idea was taken seriously.

  14. TRoc
    Date: Tue, Jun 17 2008 01:02:09

    QUOTE (K4S @ Jun 16 2008, 05:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    I think it would be more appropriate to have one (main) tutorial section that contains actual new/unique pen mods. And another section that has tutorials for variations of existing pen mods.

    Example:
    "Bictory" would be located in the main tutorial section
    "bictory with rsvp caps replacing the original bic caps" would be located in the variation tutorial section.


    Having 2 different sections would solve a lot of problems imo. And it's usually easy enough to distinguish a new mod from a variation.


    Yea, I agree that this would to be a solution but it seems that it would be a lot like the famous mod list:
    QUOTE (Eburt @ Jun 30 2007, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    - List of Mods @ UCPSB V2 (Has a lot more mods listed!!!)

    And there seems to be a lot of just quick little add-ons to other pens. This might be good for newcomers who would want to explore different possibilities of simple mods but I also think that it would just take up space.

  15. Syrn
    Date: Tue, Jun 17 2008 01:14:09

    yeah i noticed the idea was similar but first of all it would be an updated list. It would also serve the purpose of filtering out all the ugly mods and implementing a real system. My hope was for the final product to be possibly a bit more refined so only the best new mods live on.

    Also theres no problem with sounding like the ucpsb v2 list of mods because there never was that sort of project done for upsbv3.

    maybe my point was unclear...there should be a subforum for new mods, and then they get added to a sticky on the real pen modifications page if they are accepted. This may also promote some more creativity in the way that it needs to live up to a certain standard to achieve a place on the official list for upsb's new mods.

  16. Weddamehhn
    Date: Tue, Jun 17 2008 02:05:30

    QUOTE (sketching @ Jun 17 2008, 12:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Can anyone talk about what goes on in other PS message boards? Is this an "issue" in any other places?


    The only issue in GPC was that people kept on making tutorials for doublecapped mods.././
    Well since 90% of those threads ended up closed, people stopped making them...

    ________________________________________________________________________________
    _____________

    I don't think that the idea of people needing to have requests for a tutorial is good because what happens if a person right after you posts his collection or something? Yes, he gets the comments not you. In fact, that happens to me ALOT happy.gif

    I suggest that we just deal with it..people will stop once they notice that it's useless..


    @Syrn

    Personal preferences of pen mods always vary, so filtering ugly mods isn't a good choice.

  17. iamk34n3
    Date: Tue, Jun 17 2008 02:18:41

    If we try to implement this approval system, there are still some flaws. One of the problems is how do you distinguish between creating a new thread and a tutorial? How can we tell the difference between a thread called how to make an outsert and a tread that is a tutorial? We can't just give this job to the moderators because they are already busy as they are with their lives and moderating the forums. Even if this whole you must get it approved system is set up, people are still gonna break the rules. How many noobs do you see that creates a topic such as "need help with rsvp MX" or something along those lines? What about noobs that revive old threads? They do this because either a) they didn't know, or B ) they didn't read the rules. If we put a lock on creating new topics, it will just put more work on the mods.

    BTW, this probably doesn't make any sense at all cause I just typed up what came to mind.

  18. Shadowserpant
    Date: Tue, Jun 17 2008 02:21:53

    its not about filtering ugly or bad mods (well maybe really really bad), but about filtering mods that have been made already or are too small an alteration to be considered a new mod

  19. K4S
    Date: Tue, Jun 17 2008 02:30:40

    QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ Jun 16 2008, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    its not about filtering ugly or bad mods (well maybe really really bad), but about filtering mods that have been made already or are too small an alteration to be considered a new mod

    That is why we should have one main tutorial section for new/unique mods and a variation tutorial section. ALL main mods go in the main tutorial section, and ALL variations go into the variation tutorial section.

    edit: Mods do not have to be famous or common in order to go into the main tutorial section. They simply have to be unique and bring something new to the table instead of being a re-hash of another mod.

    edit2: For the variation section every mod that goes in there can also be classified as a variation of pen mod X. So if a mod was a variation of an rsvp MX, the title would include that.

  20. pholord
    Date: Tue, Jun 17 2008 02:38:45

    We also need people to use the rate topic function for good/bad mods. The tutorial sub forum seems like a very practical solution.

  21. Jaybles
    Date: Tue, Jun 17 2008 02:39:05

    I fully agree with K4S. It would prevent...future arguments.

  22. -JC-
    Date: Tue, Jun 17 2008 02:45:57

    QUOTE (Syrn @ Jun 16 2008, 08:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    @jc- I think what would happen is that the same people who are making the other bad mods would be requesting for a new bad mod, and there would be a whole subcommunity of people 1-upping each other just to make their tutorial validated.

    this could be a tedious process because you have to go back in time a bit with the threads but maybe it could be a project collaborating with members given a temporary authoritative gain. I'd propose people like TEK, Pholord, and iMatt, or others chosen by real moderators if the individual was willing...that is if the idea was taken seriously.

    although that possibility is open, i doubt that it'll happen =\ but you're right, it's definitely plausible for that to happen, so scrap my idea of having normal people request for tutorials
    i like your second idea though
    i think that instead of tek though, just have Pholord and iMatt---only cause i feel that tek gets way too many PMs and has way too much work to do already
    and i'm sure Pholord and iMatt will probably agree on a consensus after reviewing a mod cause it's usually rather obvious as to whether or not a new tutorial should be put up for it

    QUOTE (Weddamehhn @ Jun 16 2008, 10:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    I don't think that the idea of people needing to have requests for a tutorial is good because what happens if a person right after you posts his collection or something? Yes, he gets the comments not you. In fact, that happens to me ALOT happy.gif

    you post up a 'new' mod and someone posts up teh exact same one o.0..??? nobody else should've have even known about that pen if you were considereing putting up a tutorial for it
    and if by coincidence that both of you came up with the same exact 'new' mod and that one posted right after the other, well, have a mod put up the tutorial then if you dont' want one of you having mroe recognition than the other if all you want from postign up a tutorial for that new mod is recognition from teh community

    QUOTE (K4S @ Jun 16 2008, 10:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    That is why we should have one main tutorial section for new/unique mods and a variation tutorial section. ALL main mods go in the main tutorial section, and ALL variations go into the variation tutorial section.

    edit: Mods do not have to be famous or common in order to go into the main tutorial section. They simply have to be unique and bring something new to the table instead of being a re-hash of another mod.

    hmm... do you think newcomers would know the difference between what's completely brand new and what's just a variation =\?
    i doubt that a person who's been spinning for a couple months who makes a new mod will know that perhaps his 'new' mod is just a variation of the ...say... mcx (i just looked around and picked the first mod i found xD )
    so even in this case, i feel that a couple people should review a mod before its tutorial gets posted --such as pholord and iMatt


    another issue that i have is that...will newcomers know to PM pholord and imatt with their tutorial to be reviewed and perhaps be seperated into 'new' mods and minor modications to mods subforums =\
    cause honestly, i never really read the rules to any forum tongue.gif i just lurked around for a bit, then started posting but made sure it wasn't too stupid (and if it was..then oh well, i guess my topic was locked them), and then eventually i just knew all the rules =\ well...more or less

  23. Jaybles
    Date: Tue, Jun 17 2008 04:13:51

    One this about this hostility towards new mods however useless they might be is the aftereffects caused by it. I am uncomfortable with the possibility of losing a perfectly good mod which they might create in the future but may hesitate to actually share the information due to the negative reception he/she got to his first mod tutorial even though they had a perfectly good intention. This is mainly the reason why i try to fight for the mod itself. But all that is moot. ><

    edit: Im not saying that we should praise the mod and stuff just for the sake of it but give actual constructive critism instead of saying "Why should I make the mod". Why should we say that instead of "Why Shouldn't we make the mod?" So its too similar to some existing mod but does that warrant the hostilities?

    Okay I know that "Pholord is the Theberzh of pen spinning" is a really stupid analogy but hey.

  24. K4S
    Date: Tue, Jun 17 2008 04:35:45

    QUOTE (-JC- @ Jun 16 2008, 09:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    another issue that i have is that...will newcomers know to PM pholord and imatt with their tutorial to be reviewed and perhaps be seperated into 'new' mods and minor modications to mods subforums =\
    cause honestly, i never really read the rules to any forum tongue.gif i just lurked around for a bit, then started posting but made sure it wasn't too stupid (and if it was..then oh well, i guess my topic was locked them), and then eventually i just knew all the rules =\ well...more or less

    If the ultimate goal is to create some sort of structured order for the tutorial section then we might as add a section for "tutorial assessment" where they will be assessed by a moderator and then moved to the main/variation tutorial section. The main and variation tutorial sections would probably be locked off from public posting...so the only place to post tutorials is the "tutorial assessment" section and a moderator will move the tutorial to the correct section.

  25. Jaybles
    Date: Tue, Jun 17 2008 04:49:51

    oooh good idea. It would remove the need for public assessment,etc and no one would have any problems.

  26. -JC-
    Date: Tue, Jun 17 2008 05:09:30

    QUOTE (K4S @ Jun 17 2008, 12:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    If the ultimate goal is to create some sort of structured order for the tutorial section then we might as add a section for "tutorial assessment" where they will be assessed by a moderator and then moved to the main/variation tutorial section. The main and variation tutorial sections would probably be locked off from public posting...so the only place to post tutorials is the "tutorial assessment" section and a moderator will move the tutorial to the correct section.

    this sounds good happy.gif
    i hope everyone is satisified with that idea cause i think that'll solve this problem once and for all--well, there's always the occasional person who'll end up posting in the wrong subforum, but i think overall, this'll help keep harsh constructive criticism and flaming away from newcomers biggrin.gif

  27. Syrn
    Date: Tue, Jun 17 2008 05:15:11

    if they post in the wrong forum.... there will be blood.

    yeah i like the idea of the subforum however it ends up being worked out, i trust the mods.

  28. pholord
    Date: Tue, Jun 17 2008 05:45:17

    As long as we can get some kind of solution to this Im good with it. K4S has great ideas but Id like to hear from some other mods/admins

  29. CaliMartinio
    Date: Tue, Jun 17 2008 05:55:00

    So you guys want to filter all the variations of known mods out of the main forum and put into a subforum?
    If so, I'm all for it