UPSB v3
Naming Committee / [topic][5.8.9] Tipped Sonic
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Date: Tue, Jun 24 2008 05:04:27
but all those are due simply to the shape of the hand
anyways, this was brought up by me, lol
tipped sonic and tipped sonic rev are the same thing, aren't they?
tipped moonwalk sonic = tipped sonic rev
moonwalks have been abolished soo...
tipped sonic = tipped sonic rev
right?
they're the exact same trick, just one goes up and one goes down
the only differentiation between sonic and sonic rev is the spin type, and these are both the same, there is no spin
EDIT: whoa sketching just answered in the other thread. also, Fresh, neosonic starts perpendicular to fingers? what?
Related threads: -
Date: Tue, Jun 24 2008 05:06:38
@Shadowserpant:
QUOTE (sketching)As far as the NC is concerned, Tipped Sonic is similar to Sonic but has a flat, see-saw motion instead of a conical motion. Tipped Sonic Normal would move in the same direction (up the hand) as Sonic Normal. Tipped Sonic Reverse would move in the same direction (down the hand) as Sonic Reverse.
You should read through the Trick Types thread to see the "latest" discussion on the topic to see where the NC currently stands.
I don't understand where Moonwalk Sonic comes into play when talking about the basic Tipped Sonic.
QUOTEthe only differentiation between sonic and sonic rev is the spin type, and these are both the same, there is no spinO_o... -
Date: Tue, Jun 24 2008 05:12:14
im not sure what im supposed to get from that thread exactly
but ok here's what I was saying
the tipped sonic is a sonic where the conic motion has been turned into a see saw motion, right?
so a sonic 23-12 would be turn into a see sawed sonic 23-12
and so, a moonwalk sonic 12-23 would be turned into a see sawed moonwalk sonic 12-23
but since moonwalk has been abolished, it would simply be a see sawed sonic 12-23
which would mean that a tipped sonic 12-23 is the exact same thing as a tipped sonic rev 12-23
why use two names?
EDIT:
I was saying that with the sonic and sonic rev, the only difference is the spin type. With the abolishment of moonwalks, slots don't matter anymore for the name, the name only determines which direction it spins.
BUT with the tipped sonics, there is no conic spin, thus no spin direction to worry about. so logically, the tipped sonic and tipped sonic rev are the exact same things -
Date: Tue, Jun 24 2008 05:20:00QUOTEthe tipped sonic is a sonic where the conic motion has been turned into a see saw motion, right?CorrectQUOTEso a sonic 23-12 would be turn into a see sawed sonic 23-12Tipped Sonic 23-12 would have the see-saw motion, Sonic would still have conical motion.QUOTEwhich would mean that a tipped sonic 12-23 is the exact same thing as a tipped sonic rev 12-23See above. Tipped Sonic normal starts with the front of the pen moving upward, followed by the upward change of finger slots. Tipped Sonic Reverse starts with a downward motion of the front of the pen, followed by a downward change of finger slots.QUOTEmoonwalk sonic 12-23 would be turned into a see sawed moonwalk sonic 12-23Moonwalk Tipped Sonic would not work because there is no conical motion to keep in the same direction as the path of the pen changes. That means that there simply would be no Tipped Moonwalk Sonic. I personally don't think that it even exists.
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Date: Tue, Jun 24 2008 05:25:45
well im thoroughly confused
the basic arguement i have is that Tipped Sonic and Tipped Sonic Reverse are the exact same trick, except for direction going up and down the hand. Is that true, or no? -
Date: Tue, Jun 24 2008 05:28:47
At this point, yes.
If we agreed to assume that direction no longer plays a part in Tipped Sonic, like with Moonwalk Sonic, then we would have to not use "Normal" or "Reverse". It would have to explicitly be called only "Tipped Sonic", without any direction. There should probably be a new thread for Tipped Sonic discussion. -
Date: Tue, Jun 24 2008 05:31:23
ok so... yea
lol that's exactly what i'm saying
i think tipped sonic rev should be abolished
it should just be tipped sonic
tipped sonic 12-23
tipped sonic 23-12
etc. -
Date: Tue, Jun 24 2008 05:45:05
What do others think, would keeping Tipped Sonic to a single trick work?
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Date: Tue, Jun 24 2008 08:19:29QUOTE (sketching @ Jun 24 2008, 01:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>What do others think, would keeping Tipped Sonic to a single trick work?
I think it would. The pen need not begin with a downward motion when moving up slots or vice-versa, plus both the normal and reverse involve the pen moving both one direction & the opposite one during the trick anyway. -
Date: Tue, Jun 24 2008 08:31:16
It works theoretically, but in practice, it's kinda confusing, well I myself understand the point but I'm not sure everyone would find it natural to use this. But well, it also seems confusing to me to use sonic 12-23 in place of moonwalk sonic 12-23, so you probably got a right idea, shadowserpant.
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Date: Tue, Jun 24 2008 15:18:04
Generally, 'Normal' and 'Reverse' modifiers are used to differentiate between the spin direction of the trick, whether clockwise or counter-clockwise. In this case, since Tipped Sonic does not have either spin direction, perhaps both Normal and Reverse modifiers should be deprecated.
However, this generalization is incorrect when applied to tricks such as Backhand Tracer. Here, Normal and Reverse are defined by the path of the pen, not the spin direction.
I believe that for each set of Trick Type, or some other encompassing category, the 'Normal' and 'Reverse' definitions be clearly defined. Otherwise, we may end up with inconsistencies in our nomenclature.
*I say each because 'Normal' for Around tricks is not the same spin direction nor pen path as of 'Normal' for Sonic tricks. -
Date: Tue, Jun 24 2008 19:31:26QUOTE (thig @ Jun 24 2008, 11:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Generally, 'Normal' and 'Reverse' modifiers are used to differentiate between the spin direction of the trick, whether clockwise or counter-clockwise. In this case, since Tipped Sonic does not have either spin direction, perhaps both Normal and Reverse modifiers should be deprecated.
Agreed.QUOTEHowever, this generalization is incorrect when applied to tricks such as Backhand Tracer. Here, Normal and Reverse are defined by the path of the pen, not the spin direction.
I think that backhand tracer doesn't need to have 'normal' or 'reverse' it could simply be backhand tracer slot-slot, for example, backhand tracer 12-34.QUOTEI believe that for each set of Trick Type, or some other encompassing category, the 'Normal' and 'Reverse' definitions be clearly defined. Otherwise, we may end up with inconsistencies in our nomenclature.
*I say each because 'Normal' for Around tricks is not the same spin direction nor pen path as of 'Normal' for Sonic tricks.
We do need a clear definition, however, seeing how the progress of defining a pen and trick went I'm not too hopeful...
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Date: Wed, Jun 25 2008 02:37:27
Normal and reverse are not based on direction, as shown by thumb tricks (and arounds). They're based on... normal and reverse.
They're determined simply by what direction the trick naturally goes
Do a triangle pass T12
Now do a triangle pass 123
They should feel very natural going seperate directions
I don't know what a backhand tracer is, so no comment there, my bad
@Skatox, yea, i don't really see how it could confuse anyone... because there's no spin direction to mix up with. You do a tipped sonic, and make it go to the slots it's supposed to... -
Date: Wed, Jun 25 2008 12:27:20
Shadowserpant, I'm sorry, but I hardly understand your argument.
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Date: Wed, Jun 25 2008 14:29:54QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ Jun 24 2008, 09:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Normal and reverse are not based on direction, as shown by thumb tricks (and arounds). They're based on... normal and reverse.
They're determined simply by what direction the trick naturally goes
Do a triangle pass T12
Now do a triangle pass 123
They should feel very natural going seperate directions
I don't know what a backhand tracer is, so no comment there, my bad
@Skatox, yea, i don't really see how it could confuse anyone... because there's no spin direction to mix up with. You do a tipped sonic, and make it go to the slots it's supposed to...
Backhand tracer
He's saying that 'normal' is the way the trick feels most natural or is easiest to do. The reverse is the less natural or harder way to do the trick. -
Date: Wed, Jun 25 2008 20:44:03
I think it would still be useful to keep normal and reverse. It's useful to define a 'normal' direction for a trick (not necessarily what feels natural, because that can vary from person to person). That's especially the case with tipped sonics, because the 'normal' and 'reverse' are almost completely different tricks to execute, in that you have to use a much different motion to do the reverse as compared to the normal. Tipped sonics would also be an example of a trick where the 'normal' is much harder to execute than the 'reverse' for most people.
We really need to keep these modifiers if only for convenience's sake. Just because the pen doesn't spin during a trick doesn't mean it's useless to define a normal and reverse direction. During a 'reverse' tipped sonic, the pen, and most importantly the fingers holding it, execute the exact reverse motion of the 'normal'. Leaving the modifier helps make this fact more clear. -
Date: Fri, Jun 27 2008 05:43:20
yea @thig, exactly what fresh said
grsbmd... im pretty sure that if you can do a tipped sonic, you can do a tipped sonic reverse. Whereas if you can do a sonic, you can't automatically do a sonic reverse.
sketching... can we put up a vote?
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voting thread
sketching