UPSB v3
Serious Discussion / Politics, Government, and Social Models
whats your view?
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Date: Sat, Jun 28 2008 23:31:21
Just a few questions about politics and government..
Do you think politics should be played dirty or clean, why?
Are you trustworthy of political candidates, why or why not?
What do you look for in a good politician?
How do you think, religion, racism, sexism and prejudice play out in an election?
What ideas do you think politicians should fight for, why?
If you could have one law passed what would it be, why?
Do you support the war in Iraq, why?
Do you support war, why or why not?
Who do you think will be the next United States president and why?
And finely
If you could have one member from upsb be the next ruler of the world who would it be and why? (and no You can’t pick yourself
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Date: Sat, Jun 28 2008 23:45:00
i don't think poitics should exist
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Date: Sun, Jun 29 2008 00:07:33QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ Jun 29 2008, 12:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i don't think poitics should exist
Woah holy shit you did not think that one through.
I'm not even going to comment on this topic any further for I will be warned and subsequently banned. -
Date: Sun, Jun 29 2008 00:25:02QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ Jun 28 2008, 07:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i don't think poitics should exist
basically you're pro-anarchy?
@mats: you can't say that w/o backing up. Anarchy is a valid opinion like any other. Any rebuke should be supported by strong arguments. -
Date: Sun, Jun 29 2008 00:48:18QUOTE (Zombo @ Jun 29 2008, 01:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>basically you're pro-anarchy?
@mats: you can't say that w/o backing up. Anarchy is a valid opinion like any other. Any rebuke should be supported by strong arguments.
Just listen to this guy or something. -
Date: Sun, Jun 29 2008 00:48:31
@Mats, wtf?
@zombo, slighty
EDIT:QUOTECompletely misled. Anarchism is working together for the mutual benefit of mankind. Not some free-for-all bullshit. -
Date: Sun, Jun 29 2008 00:59:36
you can't be "slightly" for anarchy.
you either have a government, or you don't. you can't have half of a government. -
Date: Sun, Jun 29 2008 09:27:03
Alright, alright... If I get warned it's Zombo's fault.
QUOTEDo you think politics should be played dirty or clean, why?
Politics should be played clean and fairly, however, this is a total impossibility due to nature of mankind.QUOTEAre you trustworthy of political candidates, why or why not?
Heck no... The higher a politician is, the more bullshit they have used throughout their time.QUOTEWhat do you look for in a good politician?
This dewdQUOTEWhat ideas do you think politicians should fight for, why?
They should fight for the best quality of life of their citizens, although they seem to rather fight for the best economy for their country instead.QUOTEIf you could have one law passed what would it be, why?
Legalisation of cannabis - It's less harmful than alcohol and The Netherlands has a 'soft' drug policy and the lowest amount of drug addicts and drug problems in Europe.QUOTEDo you support the war in Iraq, why?
No, because it is the USA's attempts to try and secure oil that is so desperately needs. They should have spent the money the put into the war into developing technology such as hydrogen fuel cells and fusion power generation.QUOTEDo you support war, why or why not?
I do not support war, however, there are times when war is necassary. For instance, when the UK declared war on Germany in world war II, that was necassary. However, Germany had not gone to war with Poland in the first place, no war at all would have occured. War in self-defence or defence of others I will support.QUOTEWho do you think will be the next United States president and why?
Obama, he is new and fresh. He has strong policies and appeals to the international community. More importantly (from the point of winning an election) he appeals to a greater proportion of voters than Cain and the republicans have destroyed their reputation anyway.
And finelyQUOTEIf you could have one member from upsb be the next ruler of the world who would it be and why? (and no You can’t pick yourself dry.gif)
No single person should ever rule the entire world.QUOTE (Zombo)@mats: you can't say that w/o backing up. Anarchy is a valid opinion like any other. Any rebuke should be supported by strong arguments.
Okay... If the world were turned to anarchy now rather than the various governments that are running the show, the world would collapse. There would be basically be an 'every man for himself' world war.
If the world had been running on anarchy since the dawn of mankind, we would not have survived. I believe we need(ed) leaders to show the group where to go and what do to, else, there is uncontrolled chaos that leads to arguments, fighting and nothing being done. If we simply argue and fight and get nothing done, we have no food.
Bear in mind at no point in human history has their truely been anarchy, even in our earliest days an alpha male would lead the group, even when a government collapses into so called 'anarchy', there are still influencial figures and leaders of small groups. -
Date: Sun, Jun 29 2008 14:02:35
this is only assuming that the nature of man is inherently evil, a debate on its own. ("Nature vs Nurture"): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_versus_nurture
In that case, anarchy is impossible.
If man becomes tainted by society, anarchy would work because there would be no "evil men", and all would work towards the benefit of everyone.
to resolve the question of government vs no government, you must first resolve the question of nature vs nurture. -
Date: Sun, Jun 29 2008 18:44:09QUOTE (Zombo @ Jun 29 2008, 03:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>this is only assuming that the nature of man is inherently evil, a debate on its own. ("Nature vs Nurture"): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_versus_nurture
In that case, anarchy is impossible.
If man becomes tainted by society, anarchy would work because there would be no "evil men", and all would work towards the benefit of everyone.
to resolve the question of government vs no government, you must first resolve the question of nature vs nurture.
It's not so much because mankind is inherently evil, but because a group with no leader just gets nothing done. A lack of co-ordinated effort leads to a lack of anything being done, leading to a lack of food and then a lack of human life. -
Date: Sun, Jun 29 2008 22:32:09
agreed, @zombo
i said slightly because again, i dont want some free for all crap...
but if people could all work for the benifet of themselves, then there would be no problem
like those green dudes from toy story who all think as one -
Date: Sun, Jun 29 2008 22:36:22QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ Jun 29 2008, 06:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>agreed, @zombo
i said slightly because again, i dont want some free for all crap...
but if people could all work for the benifet of themselves, then there would be no problem
like those green dudes from toy story who all think as one
...working for the benefit of themselves but is not anarchy?
that's communism -
Date: Sun, Jun 29 2008 22:41:03
but communism always ends up with some fucktard taking everything
communism just sounds bad now
i think of it as anarchy, with good people in it
no one's gonna say hey guys lets all give everyone everything
people are just... good -
Date: Sun, Jun 29 2008 22:43:17QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ Jun 29 2008, 06:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>but communism always ends up with some fucktard taking everything
communism just sounds bad now
i think of it as anarchy, with good people in it
no one's gonna say hey guys lets all give everyone everything
people are just... good
just because all past communist regimes have failed doesn't mean communism is bad idea.
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Date: Sun, Jun 29 2008 22:52:31
yea, but if i went up to someone and said hey im a communist they'd be like wtf oh god he's a commy!
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Date: Sun, Jun 29 2008 22:58:02
The truth is that if everyone in the world all followed a communist system, it would probably the best type of government. However, since everyone is not going to play by the same rule book, that is not a possibility and communist regimes are doomed to struggle.
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Date: Sun, Jun 29 2008 23:18:57QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ Jun 29 2008, 06:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>yea, but if i went up to someone and said hey im a communist they'd be like wtf oh god he's a commy!
... so?
what does that have to do with anything.
we're discussing political concepts/ideas here, not how popular those ideas are.
there is nothing wrong with the communist system except for the fact that humans, as they are right now, are not all good and because the communist system is more fragile than others in the sense that it can be easily exploited, it has always failed because someone "bad" took advantage of it.
but if everybody was good, it would be the best. however, in the current world situation, not everybody is good. therefore it doesn't work until we change that fact for our world. -
Date: Mon, Jun 30 2008 00:07:11QUOTEIt should be noted that "ruler" has no explicit connection to the term "rules." In an anarchy, it is possible to have rules (laws), however, these must be agreed upon by the participants in the system, and not imposed from above, by a ruler (leader, authority).
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Date: Mon, Jun 30 2008 02:20:19QUOTE (Mats @ Jun 29 2008, 03:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The truth is that if everyone in the world all followed a communist system, it would probably the best type of government. However, since everyone is not going to play by the same rule book, that is not a possibility and communist regimes are doomed to struggle.
This is very true, because with communism you aren't educated with democracy as long as you keep the people from being educated communism works. -
Date: Mon, Jun 30 2008 12:24:38QUOTE (sangara @ Jun 30 2008, 05:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>This is very true, because with communism you aren't educated with democracy as long as you keep the people from being educated communism works.
Just so you know- the communist educational system is probably one of the best in the world.
And yes- they don't teach about democracy, but that doesn't mean the people are ignorant.
It's just the same as the US doesn't realy teach about communism. -
Date: Mon, Jun 30 2008 14:56:25QUOTE (Mats @ Jun 30 2008, 12:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The truth is that if everyone in the world all followed a communist system, it would probably the best type of government. However, since everyone is not going to play by the same rule book, that is not a possibility and communist regimes are doomed to struggle.
I dont think this is true, not even in a utopian world were everybody had been properly brainwashed towards what benefits the system. I think a free competetive marked with free will always be more effective. Cause in such a system all participant will always have to look for ways to improve up on them self or cease to exist. There is nothing in a communistic system there does that it has to keep improving, except the fear from the government of a revolution. -
Date: Mon, Jun 30 2008 15:29:28
Some people are saying that politics should not exist. I think a further explanation on that point of view is that politics in its current form is a terrible thing. I would like to see "politicians" focus on actual issues. The issues we argue about the most are the least important. Real issues involve human life, famine, and disease. Not two grumpy old senators arguing about who is right and who is wrong.
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Date: Mon, Jun 30 2008 15:31:06QUOTE (Simån @ Jun 30 2008, 10:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I dont think this is true, not even in a utopian world were everybody had been properly brainwashed towards what benefits the system. I think a free competetive marked with free will always be more effective. Cause in such a system all participant will always have to look for ways to improve up on them self or cease to exist. There is nothing in a communistic system there does that it has to keep improving, except the fear from the government of a revolution.
if everyone in the community has a genuine care for the community, this is enough to motivate everybody to improve.
you're assuming that the only way people can be motivated is through self-interest.
the basis of communism relies on the fact that humans are "good" and work for the interest of the community, not your own. -
Date: Mon, Jun 30 2008 15:44:53
Communism could work and maybe someday it will, but the status quo of our world would not allow it.
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Date: Tue, Jul 29 2008 22:47:59QUOTE (BSGfanatic @ Jun 30 2008, 08:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Communism could work and maybe someday it will, but the status quo of our world would not allow it.
ok here what i think You are right Communism could work and be great. if everyone thought the same thing and acted the same way. but in the end it will never work it will always turn out imo to be a dictatorship.
also FUck politics and fuck the GOV. the gov is so corrupt its not even funny! -
Date: Mon, Aug 25 2008 06:29:39QUOTE (Mats @ Jun 29 2008, 05:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Obama, he is new and fresh. He has strong policies and appeals to the international community. More importantly (from the point of winning an election) he appeals to a greater proportion of voters than Cain and the republicans have destroyed their reputation anyway.
I desperately hope your right....because the same campaign smear machine that helped bush pull out the 2004 election, and ironically destroy Cain as a competitor for the republican candidacy in 2000 has now been hired by Cain and no doubt plans to spread as much bullshit as they can.... -
Date: Fri, Oct 3 2008 02:28:23
In the midst of all the political talk going on I have been thinking about my own political beliefs. I believe that in the U.S's current political system no matter which candidate is elected the state of the country will not be changed to a huge degree. Many people have complained about how Barack Obama does not have as much experience as John McCain. Well personaly I would prefer a president who is not in congress, because a large majority of congressmen forget about what America is about. They see the heart of America as its economics, its business. They do not see what the real heart of America is our freedoms, our liberty. When you loose sight of our freedoms you loose sight of America.
Both McCain, and Obama claim to care more about the American people then the other candidate does. But they both support huge corporations, they both support the greedy suits who care about nothing but money. I was recently reading John McCain's website a few minutes ago, and I read about how he supports intelectuall property, and that he wishes to increase funding to help protect this "intellectual propety". I have long stated that the Uninted States can put a price on everything even knowledge. So I ask that you think before you start flaming someone who believes different then you, and think is it really worth it to spend so much time arguing about something that will not change much at all.
Do not expect Barack Obama, or John McCain to change everything wrong in the world you must bring it upon yourself to change what really matters. The more you trust the government to do everything for you, the closer our country comes to fascism. -
Date: Sat, Oct 4 2008 03:12:55
I agree that whoever gets elected will not change the US much in their first term because they have to inherit a huge debt. What large corporations does Obama support though? He seems to fight for ordinary people to me. After obtaining his Harvard law degree, he spent years as a community organizer in the poor south side of Chicago instead of working for a large salary. You can only elect him and hope he delivers, but if I were American I'd be willing to take a chance on him rather than McCain. You need a president that will transcend the ineffective bipartisan ideology to get things done for the people. It's fascism when a country's government tries to control its citizens, but giving people a sporting chance is considered fairness.