UPSB v3
Naming Committee / [topic][5.16.2]Genesis+RMX
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Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 02:33:10
Breakdowns for Genesis+RMX Collab
DL: http://genesis.maple-dgs.net/collabs > Genesis X RMX
Proofread - Pholord, Eriror, Toast Extended Due Date: September 26, 2008
Proofread - Pholord Due Date: September 12th, 2008
Proofread - Eriror Due Date: September 12th, 2008
Proofread - Toast Due Date: September 12th, 2008
Proofread - Eso Due Date: August 27th, 2008
Proofread - DaThroat Due Date: August, 27th, 2008
Proofread - Maniok Due Date: August 16th, 2008
Proofread - Sathon Due Date: August 16th, 2008
Proofread - Dongza Due Date: August 16th, 2008
Proofread - Foofdude Due Date: August 3rd, 2008
Proofread - Scott Shaputis Due Date: August 3rd, 2008
Proofread - Lunasol Due Date: July 20th, 2008
Proofread - T_N_C Extended Due Date: July 11th, 2008
Proofread - T_N_C Due Date: July 8th, 2008
1st Draft Due Date: July 5th, 2008
DRAFT 1
Spoiler:
DRAFT 2 (PROOFREAD)
T_N_C - http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?s=&am...st&p=125778
Spoiler:
Lunasol - http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?s=&am...st&p=125734
Spoiler:
Scott Shaputis - http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?s=&am...st&p=125734
Spoiler:
Foofdude - http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?s=&am...st&p=127514
Spoiler:
Dongza - http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?s=&am...st&p=125303
Spoiler:
Sathon - http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?s=&am...st&p=125778
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Maniok - http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?s=&am...st&p=125237
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Dathroat - http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?showt...mp;#entry125734
Spoiler:
Eso - http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?showt...mp;#entry125778
Spoiler:
Toast - http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?s=&am...st&p=125237
Spoiler:
Eriror - http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?showt...mp;#entry125778
Spoiler:
Pholord - http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?showt...mp;#entry125303
Spoiler:
FINAL DRAFT
T_N_C
Spoiler:
Lunasol
Spoiler: -
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 03:18:52
Ok this is much better, but what about combos that have already been broken? I know that Eso's has already been done so do we still do it or just look over that one?
BTW I'll take Lunasol Scott and DaThroat -
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 04:09:30
I'll go for Dongza and Pholord. I'll take another if no one else wants to.
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Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 13:00:26
sangara, unless the breakdown was done by a member of the Breakdown Team, I would leave other people's breakdowns alone.
And I'm sorry..I just realized Genesis+RMX is not the same as Genesis 1st, which you had already started on.
But I guess we can save those for later. -
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 13:02:40
Ill do Eso Maniok
=D
EDIT: thank thig...I've not been on top of my game for the past few days...I should do some math.. -
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 13:04:45
inotuh, I think sangara is already doing DaThroat...but I'll put you up for Eso and Maniok.
Stay'n Alive, it looks like you're the last one up. Are you ok with Toast and Eriror? If you want, I can switch people with you, as long as you tell me within the next 24 hours.
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THE DUE DATE IS JULY 5TH, 2008! PLEASE TURN IN YOUR BREAKDOWNS ON TIME. -
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 19:15:06
I failed at eso's...but I can do manioks.
Could I do toasts instead of Eso's? Sorry for inconvenience...I just really need more practice with wiper breakdowns....even the breakdown of Eso I have so far is messy due to my inability to work with wipers. -
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 19:51:41
inotuh, yes I changed yours to toast instead of Eso.
I think I'll do T_N_C, Eso, and Eriror..
Stay'n Alive, are you ok with foofdude and Sathon? -
Date: Wed, Jul 2 2008 20:34:15
w00t organization I'll be out of town the 3rd-6th so I'll post mine later on tonight.
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Date: Thu, Jul 3 2008 17:23:00
Uh, where do we post the breakdowns?
I guess here...
Spoiler:
I sucked on Toasts...So many hybrids..and I'm not that good with them...I need more practice.
Spoiler:
I messed up on wipers part..This is my first time breaking down an ExTREMELY COMPLEX COMBo. Please, as people say, "Cut me some slack" and don't kick me off the team yet...I'll get better.. -
Date: Thu, Jul 3 2008 20:37:38
walkingjacket and inotuh, yes the breakdowns belong here.
QUOTE (walkingjacket)Pholord's combo
Spoiler:
Dongza's combo
Spoiler: -
Date: Fri, Jul 4 2008 16:47:44
omfg I should follow a little more this thread...
And I need to break my combo's today, tomorrow it is not sure that I can... Ahhhh, damn, we are friday or what? Okay I'm really lost. -
Date: Fri, Jul 4 2008 17:01:48
Yes, its friday, tommorow is due date, and you have to break down Sathon and foofdude
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Date: Fri, Jul 4 2008 17:05:47
The due date is July 5th. As long as you turn in the breakdowns before the end of July 5th, you'll be fine.
The time you were allowed to choose who you wanted to breakdown is long gone. Stay'n Alive, you are assigned to breakdown Foofdude's and Sathon's combos.
Joining the breakdown team takes a measure of commitment. Failure to show commitment as a member may lead to expulsion. Please keep this in mind. -
Date: Fri, Jul 4 2008 19:49:37
Didn't realize I'd be able to get on here so mine are a day late well in my mind they are a day late
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
woot there we go -
Date: Fri, Jul 4 2008 21:00:42QUOTE (Stay'n Alive)
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
You guys, please don't send me the breakdown through PM. Just post them here..
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler: -
Date: Sun, Jul 6 2008 02:10:31
Ok, everyone. It looks like we got all the breakdowns in time. Thank you for your hard work.
Now we must proofread the work. For proofreading, I think it is best to check one combo at a time and correct it if necessary. Everyone in the Breakdown Team is required to check the work and post corrections, if any errors exist. If you are a member of the Breakdown Team, you must post in this thread stating whether or not you found any errors, and the corrections of these errors, if any. Anyone not part of the Breakdown Team may post corrections, but this is not mandatory for non-Breakdown Team members.
The first combo to proofread is T_N_C. Proofread posts are due by July 8th. The link to the breakdown is - http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?s=&am...st&p=125778
***Please check the updated 1st post*** -
Date: Tue, Jul 8 2008 00:17:37
Corrections are in red.
Please agree/disagree/add more corrections. Thanks.
Spoiler: -
Date: Tue, Jul 8 2008 02:54:32
i proofread Foofdude
the beginning seemed all wrong to me, so i just... redid it. So no corrections or anything. Here's my break:
Twisted Sonic 43-23 > Pass Reverse 23-12 > Pass Reverse 12-23 > Pass Reverse 23-34 > Charge Reverse 34 ~> Pass 34-23 > Twisted Sonic 23-12 > Pass 12-T1 > Figure Eight Transfer > Thumbflap Charge Reverse > Fingerless Thumbaround Reverse T1-12 > Bak 12-12 > Pass 12-23 > Midbak 1.5 23-23 > Neobak 23-12 > Twisted Sonic Reverse 12-23 > Pass 23-34 > Pass 34-23 > Twisted Sonic 23-12 > Fingerpass Reverse 12-12 > Fingerpass Reverse 12-12 > Fingerpass Reverse 12-12 > Pass Reverse 12-23 > Pass Reverse 23-34 > Charge Reverse 34 ~> Pass 34-23 > Twisted Sonic 23-12 > Pass 12-T1 > Figure Eight Reverse T1 > Thumbflap Charge Reverse > Fingerless Thumbaround Reverse T1 Right Hand ~ Transfer ~ Fingerless Thumbaround T1 Left Hand > Figure Eight Transfer T1- T1 Right Hand > Wiper Reverse T1 > Pass T1-12 > Inverse Warped Sonic 12-23 > Twisted Sonic Reverse 23-34 > Charge Reverse 34 ~> Pass 34-23 > Double Charge 23-23 > Twisted Sonic 23-12 > Pass 12-T1 > Extended Thumbaround Bust T1-12
Note: The hybrid charge reverse 34s are to accomodate the palm turning motion
P.S. With my notation that FL TA Rev transfer would've been so easy to translate =_= -
Date: Tue, Jul 8 2008 12:34:24QUOTE (thig @ Jul 7 2008, 08:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Corrections are in red.
Please agree/disagree/add more corrections. Thanks.
Spoiler:
What does >~ mean? Other than that, it seems right to me. -
Date: Tue, Jul 8 2008 23:29:26
i didnt see a >~
but ~> is basically... a hybrid -
Date: Tue, Jul 8 2008 23:44:33
Uh, its there dude, Inv Sonic 23-12 >~ Charge 0.5 12 ->....
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Date: Tue, Jul 8 2008 23:54:26
well thats still a hybrid, just a different kind
check interuppted trick notation on the wiki, it explains ~, ~>, and >~
i cant see the video so idk exactly what it is..
are incomplete charges really hybrid? if they are then yea that makes sense -
Date: Wed, Jul 9 2008 16:22:24
inotuh, >~ means a whole trick precedes a part of a trick.
Shadowserpant, thank you for your contribution, but my idea was to just focus proofreading on T_N_C's combo first, then correct others later one at a time.
Incomplete charges are not hybrids by themselves. If they are in conjunction with another trick, then the whole conjunction is a hybrid.
inotuh, thank you for doing the proofreading assignment. However, a number of the members of the Breakdown Team did not post in this topic.
Breakdown Team members, if you are not serious about your contribution to the Breakdown Team, I will have to consider revoking your membership. If you have an explanation for your absence, please notify me through PM.
I have extended the due date for the proofreading of T_N_C's combo to July 11th. Please meet this due date on time. -
Date: Wed, Jul 9 2008 22:53:57
I proofread T_N_C's combo, and it looks right to me, except for this part which I'm a bit unsure about.
Twisted Sonic Rev 1.0 12-23 ~ FL MA Rev 1.0 23 ~ FL RA Rev 0.5 23-34 ~> RingBackAround 1.0 34 -> PinkyBackAround 34 -> Sonic 34-23
Are we meant to use backaround or fingerless fingeraround reverse for this part? -
Date: Wed, Jul 9 2008 23:31:00
walkingjacket, I opted to use BackAround for this case since the pen traveled around the bottom phalanx of the ring and pinky fingers, which is the popularly accepted definition of the BackAround. However, technically, a BackAround must touch the back of the hand below the fingers or on the bottom knuckles. Otherwise, it is usually a Fingerless Around Rev. So technically, you are correct, and I agree. We should follow the technical standards of nomenclature instead of the popular definition. So yes, that should be changed. Thanks for pointing that out.
Also I feel the last sequence is incorrect.
Shadow Rev 1.5 12-T1 -> Shadow 1.0 T1 ~ FL TA 1.0 T1 ~> FL TA 1.0 T1 -
Date: Thu, Jul 10 2008 01:01:39
oh sorry, i thought we were just... doing it
lol but u can use that one when we get to it
ill try this one if i get a chance, i can only do it at my cousin's house -
Date: Fri, Jul 11 2008 21:41:35
I looked through T_N_C's combo+break again it seemed fine to me once again. I didn't think it was necessary to post if we didn't have anything constructive to add to the proofreading session. The one thing that I do think is that we need to all use one uniform system maybe something a little less specific than thig's ? Do we really need to notate a charge's amount of revolutions?
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Date: Fri, Jul 11 2008 23:55:28
it is more helpful
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Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 00:16:43
sangara, I added the rotation count for all incomplete tricks to help distinguish them from their Normal variations. I think this is the least specific while most accurate system to use. The number of rotations for complete tricks are generally unnecessary (to add), unless they involve some Topspin. Of course, if you have a different system in mind, please feel free to share it.
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Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 00:36:45
Yes, I agree with notating how many spins a top spin has, but with charges I think it's frivolous to notate how many spins there are. I'm not sure it may just be a personal preference with me but when reading a combo broken down I don't think that I would actually pay enough attention to my charge to do that exact amount of rotations. I guess what I'm really saying is that we should also be aiming for the ease of the user.
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Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 21:01:44
Perhaps we could eliminate the spin values for Normal variations of tricks even if they are part of a hybrid. So Charge 1.0 would just be Charge. I think it's important to keep the Charge 0.5s though, since there is quite a difference between them and Charge 1.0s.
Zombo also previously suggested we use both formal and informal notations. Should we adopt this? -
Date: Wed, Jul 16 2008 12:19:45
Well, he posted it after I posted I'm not quite good with hybrids, so yeah, it might help me a bit..
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Date: Wed, Jul 16 2008 15:01:33
Sorry, I've been a bit inactive the past few days.
sangara, I will release both formal and informal versions of T_N_C's combo later on today. The formal notation will contain the Charge rotations and the informal notation will not contain rotations, unless completely necessary (topspins, etc.).
Since we don't have any more corrections for T_N_C's combo, the next step is to proofread lunasol's combo. The proofread post is due on July, 20th. For more information, please check the first post.
Oh and thank you, everyone, for your hard work proofreading T_N_C's combo. And thank you, Shadowserpant, for contributing as well. We will keep your contribution in mind when proofreading foofdude's combo. -
Date: Thu, Jul 17 2008 01:00:26
Final Draft
Spoiler:
I'm sorry, I'm having a bit of trouble writing up the formal notation. But please continue proofreading lunasol's combo. -
Date: Thu, Jul 17 2008 03:28:47
Proofread of Lunasol's combo
Spoiler: -
Date: Thu, Jul 17 2008 05:20:13
Yea on that ending I couldn't quite tell what he was doing, going though it again atm.
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Date: Thu, Jul 17 2008 11:32:39QUOTE (walkingjacket @ Jul 16 2008, 11:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Proofread of Lunasol's combo
Spoiler:
I hate not being able to contribute, but this is good...Didn't see anything wrong really.. -
Date: Sun, Jul 20 2008 22:15:47
Here are my corrections for lunasol -
Spoiler: -
Date: Tue, Jul 22 2008 12:35:53QUOTE (thig @ Jul 2 2008, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>FINAL DRAFT
T_N_C
Spoiler:
Just wondering, why are there some parts with normal/reverse, and some parts without it? I guessed it was probably because it was obvious that tricks like Sonic 23-12 would be a normal sonic, but for this part here, both pass normal and reverse 23-34 can be used? -
Date: Tue, Jul 22 2008 14:14:17
sorry by formal/infomal, i meant using hybrid notation and interrputed notation
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Date: Sat, Jul 26 2008 21:37:01QUOTE (walkingjacket @ Jul 22 2008, 08:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Just wondering, why are there some parts with normal/reverse, and some parts without it? I guessed it was probably because it was obvious that tricks like Sonic 23-12 would be a normal sonic, but for this part here, both pass normal and reverse 23-34 can be used?
I omitted the 'Normal' modifiers and kept the 'Reverse' modifiers.
Pass (Normal) 34-23 is not the same as Pass Rev 34-23. They are two different tricks.
I hope that answers your question.QUOTE (Zombo @ Jul 22 2008, 10:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>sorry by formal/infomal, i meant using hybrid notation and interrputed notation
I'm not sure what you mean by hybrid notation.. -
Date: Sun, Jul 27 2008 23:24:03
For this week -
1. Discuss whether or not Lunasol's combo needs any more corrections.
2. Proofread Scott Shaputis AND Foofdude's combos by the 3rd.
I'm sorry but I'll be away till the 2nd. But I believe in you guys so please do your best. I'll do my share when I come back. -
Date: Mon, Jul 28 2008 11:58:02QUOTE (thig @ Jul 21 2008, 10:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Here are my corrections for lunasol -
Spoiler:
Just a minor thing I noticed, some parts are a little inconsistent, I think. You used both reverse and Rev, as well as normal.
Spoiler:
(EDIT)
Corrected a mistake. -
Date: Mon, Jul 28 2008 12:28:42QUOTE (walkingjacket @ Jul 28 2008, 07:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Just a minor thing I noticed, some parts are a little inconsistent, I think. You used both reverse and Rev, as well as normal.
Spoiler:
I'm not quite sure which is normal and reverse for the counter tricks >_>, sorry I just took a guess here. Would this part be considered a counter indexaround or counter neosonic?
I liked the review, but I was prefer to use Demons Sonic than all of those hybrids..Im sorry, Im noob. And also, those counters, I think you could just use like ~> to say neosonic ~> neosonic rev. but Im not too sure... -
Date: Mon, Jul 28 2008 16:05:27QUOTE (Shadowserpant @ Jul 7 2008, 07:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i proofread Foofdude
the beginning seemed all wrong to me, so i just... redid it. So no corrections or anything. Here's my break:
Twisted Sonic 43-23 > Pass Reverse 23-12 > Pass Reverse 12-23 > Pass Reverse 23-34 > Charge Reverse 34 ~> Pass 34-23 > Twisted Sonic 23-12 > Pass 12-T1 > Figure Eight Transfer > Thumbflap Charge Reverse > Fingerless Thumbaround Reverse T1-12 > Bak 12-12 > Pass 12-23 > Midbak 1.5 23-23 > Neobak 23-12 > Twisted Sonic Reverse 12-23 > Pass 23-34 > Pass 34-23 > Twisted Sonic 23-12 > Fingerpass Reverse 12-12 > Fingerpass Reverse 12-12 > Fingerpass Reverse 12-12 > Pass Reverse 12-23 > Pass Reverse 23-34 > Charge Reverse 34 ~> Pass 34-23 > Twisted Sonic 23-12 > Pass 12-T1 > Figure Eight Reverse T1 > Thumbflap Charge Reverse > Fingerless Thumbaround Reverse T1 Right Hand ~ Transfer ~ Fingerless Thumbaround T1 Left Hand > Figure Eight Transfer T1- T1 Right Hand > Wiper Reverse T1 > Pass T1-12 > Inverse Warped Sonic 12-23 > Twisted Sonic Reverse 23-34 > Charge Reverse 34 ~> Pass 34-23 > Double Charge 23-23 > Twisted Sonic 23-12 > Pass 12-T1 > Extended Thumbaround Bust T1-12
Note: The hybrid charge reverse 34s are to accomodate the palm turning motion
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Date: Tue, Jul 29 2008 03:26:07QUOTE (Huroni @ Jul 29 2008, 12:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I liked the review, but I was prefer to use Demons Sonic than all of those hybrids..Im sorry, Im noob. And also, those counters, I think you could just use like ~> to say neosonic ~> neosonic rev. but Im not too sure...
Sorry, I don't actually know all of the hybrid names, especially the demons and devils stuff 'cause the names are so similar.
Spoiler:
(EDIT)
Sorry I'm a bit late (in NZ time at least?), this combo was hard to break down, I think I made a lot of mistakes.
I'm not sure how to breakdown the transfers either.
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Date: Mon, Aug 4 2008 03:55:27QUOTE (walkingjacket @ Jul 28 2008, 07:58 AM)Just a minor thing I noticed, some parts are a little inconsistent, I think. You used both reverse and Rev, as well as normal.
Thanks for pointing that out. I've fixed it now.
Here are my corrections for Scott Shaputis -
Spoiler:
Here are my corrections for Foofdude -
Spoiler: -
Date: Mon, Aug 4 2008 07:59:09
I have a tad bit of a situation here my computer was essentially demolished, I was carrying it up to my house and my dog jumped on me so it ended up on the side walk in let's say a few pieces. This happened Thursday and I have been trying to redo a lot of my work (not just for the breakdown team) so I have been busy, I plan on being able to post up my stuff that I wanted to post by tommorrow. I'm sorry I should have posted sooner.
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Date: Thu, Aug 7 2008 01:25:42
@sangara
You will have additional time to submit your proofreading. I hope your computer situation sorts out somehow..
--
I'm still waiting for Huroni's proofreading... -
Date: Thu, Aug 7 2008 01:51:57
Well I did scotts. Its under walking jackets. I quoted, about Demons and the counter thing. but, from the way thig did it, I guess it seems understandable without the counters etc.
Foofdudes from thig looks good too. I would have never thought it would be a TS instead of a thumbaround, but from the looks of it, it is indeed a thumbspin.
Also this LT1-RT1. Does the L = left and t1 is the slot? If so, then I understand it. If not, I fail. but yes, thigs is good.
Soory to everyone on the team. Its like the last month of summer vacation, and I have procrastinated reading until this point. So Im being forced to read 30 pages an hour. Does to boredom, I take breaks, so yeah. I'll still be here, but otherwise, Ill say. I have to see how school goes to see what happens. -
Date: Tue, Aug 12 2008 03:05:24
@Huroni
Yeah LT1 means T1 on the left hand.
@sangara
How's your computer situation coming along?
--
It's been a while, and I'm sorry I've been a bit inactive. If you can't meet any deadline I set for whatever reason, please try to notify me prior to the deadline.
The new assignment is to proofread Dongza, Sathon, and Maniok's by August 16th. Also during this time, final adjustments to prior combos are welcome. -
Date: Tue, Aug 12 2008 05:44:35
Spoiler:
I'm having a lot of troubles breaking down the bak sequence. I'm also not sure about MA 0.5 23-13 as well =/.
Spoiler:
This was one very confusing combo, especially the flick parts which I just left with FL TA rev and this part sorry.
I'm having a lot of troubles breaking down the bak sequence. I'm also not sure about MA 0.5 23-13 as well =/.
Spoiler:
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To thig: I noticed you used 'Wiper Rev T1 -> Wiper T1' for part of the breakdown of foofdude's combo. Would that be considered a figure 8, or a wiper harmonic? Just wondering, because I think I read somewhere that figure 8 was a hybrid of wiper rev, half a charge and wiper normal? -
Date: Wed, Aug 13 2008 01:16:26
i dont think there's any charge in figure 8, i think it's just palm turns. so if the palm turns, its a figure 8, otherwise, it's a wiper harmonic
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Date: Wed, Aug 13 2008 03:41:26QUOTEFigure 8, an expansion on Wiper Harmonic, may be the first hybrid combo. While Wiper Harmonic by itself has the pen moving along a single plane, a back-and-forth fan motion, Figure 8 includes a 1/2 Charge Normal rotation combined with both of the Wiper variations. While performing the Wiper and Wiper Reverse, the hand swings the pen into a curving, double-cone-shaped path. This path allows the pen to smoothly flow along a continuous path whereas Wiper Harmonic abruptly stops the pen's motion after each trick as the pen reverses its direction.
@shadowserpant: Ah yep, didn't realise that. I always thought it was different because it seems weird how two things have the same breakdown. -
Date: Thu, Aug 14 2008 19:18:00QUOTE (walkingjacket @ Aug 12 2008, 01:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Spoiler:
I'm having a lot of troubles breaking down the bak sequence. I'm also not sure about MA 0.5 23-13 as well =/.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
This was one very confusing combo, especially the flick parts which I just left with FL TA rev and this part sorry.
I'm having a lot of troubles breaking down the bak sequence. I'm also not sure about MA 0.5 23-13 as well =/.
Spoiler:
--------------------
To thig: I noticed you used 'Wiper Rev T1 -> Wiper T1' for part of the breakdown of foofdude's combo. Would that be considered a figure 8, or a wiper harmonic? Just wondering, because I think I read somewhere that figure 8 was a hybrid of wiper rev, half a charge and wiper normal?
For dongza, I think its bak ~ fl ta rev. Im not sure if thats the same thing.
@sathon that part with the sonic is just a neobak 12-34, if I am correct. The rest of the correct is right IMO
@maniok looks good as well
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Date: Fri, Aug 15 2008 03:54:38
@Huroni:
Fingerless Indexaround reverse is the equivalent of bak. The name 'bak' or 'korean bak' is just used often enough for the name to be accepted.Neobak has 1.5 rotations.
Ah never mind, I didn't know there was a neobak 0.5 -
Date: Sat, Aug 16 2008 03:49:21
Here are my corrections -
Spoiler:
That bak sequence is a killer x.x
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
I'm a bit unsure about my corrections -.- but I'll probably be inactive during this weekend. Please add further corrections during this time. -
Date: Thu, Aug 21 2008 06:29:16
This is my first correction:
Spoiler:
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Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 18:49:28
I'm sorry I've been away for a bit. The next assignment is the proofreading of Dathroat and Eso by August 27th. I'll try to clean everything up by then.
LMnet, it seems you already have the hang of things, but just to make sure, the first draft breakdowns are listed under DRAFT 2 (PROOFREAD) on the 1st post. These breakdowns require proofreading. The FINAL DRAFT is the final versions of the breakdowns. -
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2008 19:50:58
Thx thig, but i'm already understand this system.
Spoiler:
I'm not sure about TA releases in the end of the combo. I think the best way to breaking down this tricks is:
...-> ThumbAround Release 2.0 T1-12 -> Pass Reverse 12-T1 -> ThumbAround Release 2.0 T1-12
Spoiler: -
Date: Tue, Aug 26 2008 14:03:48QUOTE (LMnet @ Aug 22 2008, 03:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thx thig, but i'm already understand this system.
Spoiler:
I'm not sure about TA releases in the end of the combo. I think the best way to breaking down this tricks is:
...-> ThumbAround Release 2.0 T1-12 -> Pass Reverse 12-T1 -> ThumbAround Release 2.0 T1-12
Spoiler:
I hate the way DaThroats style makes it look so intricate, but still look smooth.
LMNET did a excellent breakdown, but The charge .25 in DaThroats combo....if my math is correct, thats 1/4 of a charge, is it really needed to notate? Cant it just be used as a linkage and not be notated if not by tw. sonic or something?
I tried my best to follow his breakdown for Eso, but the wipers confuse me so much. Ill practice more during the weekends, but it seems good. -
Date: Tue, Aug 26 2008 18:22:10
Sonic 34-23 ~ Charge 0.25 24 ~> Pass 24-12 = Demon sonic 34-12 =) and i think this charge must be in the breakdown if we want really good breakdowns.
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Date: Tue, Aug 26 2008 23:40:25
[quote name='LMnet' date='Aug 22 2008, 12:50 PM' post='151511']
Thx thig, but i'm already understand this system.
Spoiler:
I'm not sure about TA releases in the end of the combo. I think the best way to breaking down this tricks is:
...-> ThumbAround Release 2.0 T1-12 -> Pass Reverse 12-T1 -> ThumbAround Release 2.0 T1-12
Shouldn't we be staying away from using the Fake Double notation? I was under the influence that we weren't using it because it was so confusing. Otherwise the revision I was going to post was similar to yours, just a little less intricate. -
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 04:23:22
Fake double and Extended TA is 2 different tricks and situation about difference between this tricks is clear now. I don't understand why i shouldn't use Fake double.
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Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 10:03:31
I agree with LMnet on the charge 0.25, because it's quite irregular. It makes things more accurate, and it gives readers a better idea of what it is.
I think sangara wants it to be further broken down. For readers who don't know the difference between fake double and extended thumbaround (there are still people who don't understand the difference, and say they're the same thing still >_>), would understand it better if it was further broken down.
People don't really notice the difference between the two so,
I would prefer to use Thumbspin 1.0 T1 ~ Indexaround 12 -> Pass rev 12-T1 (or Thumbspin 1.0 T1 ~ Indexaround 12-T12, since fake double naturally lands in that position without trying to pass from 12 to T1 (sorry, not sure if that made any sense)).
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I'd like to contribute, but I like thig's first draft of Eso's combo. Only two things looked wrong to me was TA T2-T1 which should be T3-T1. Rather than Demons Sonic, I think it's better to use Twisted Sonic 1.0 23-12 ~ Shadow 1.0 12 (if that's right >_>).
I like the use of his fingerswitching notation between charges. -
Date: Thu, Aug 28 2008 22:03:42
I'm sorry that I missed this deadline. My life is getting a bit hectic these days. Please excuse me.
I've looked through a couple of past proofread breakdowns and I noticed that some of their notations are inconsistent. Due to this we may have to do a brief third proofreading before the final draft.
Spoiler:
I don't see the Charge 0.25. .?
LMnet, Fake Double and Extended TA are 'controversial' terms to use. To avoid ambiguity, Fake Double and Extended TA should be broken down into hybrid notation.
Spoiler:
@LMnet, Neobak requires the pen to touch at least the bottom knuckles of the hand. In Eso's case, the Fingerless FingerSpins only touch the top half of the hand. Therefore, they cannot be Neobaks. -
Date: Fri, Aug 29 2008 06:50:38
About fake double and ext ta: I think u guys right that this is confusing terms. In next breaks i will use TA ~ FL IA instead of fake double or ext ta.
About charge 0.25: just breaking down regular demon sonic. Demon sonic is more that just sonic and pass hybrid, it's sonic and twisted sonic hybrid.
About Neo-bak: I don't know why neo-bak must touch the bottom knuckles of the hand, neo-bak is fl shadow reverse. Eso did in his combo 2/3 of neo-bak fall (last neo-bak finished in 12), so i don't think that FL FingerAround notation is better to use in this part of the combo. And this system is a lot more confusing. Expecially for spinners, who don't have enough experience in breakdowns. It's like situation with Weissian and Korean baks.
About Sonic clip in Eso's combo. Should i use Sonic clip notation or Sonic ~ {Charge} notation?
I fixed a little bit my Dathroat's breakdown:
Spoiler:
In this breakdown i'm pretty sure.
About Eso's combo. I don't see any mistakes in my breakdown. Only thing, that can confuse people is Inverse Tipped sonic. But, it's a lot more correct than just write ...-> T2-T1 ->...
And i have question about Pass rev 12-T1 before TA (sonic 23-12 > pass rev 12-T1 > TA for example) In breakdowns this pass usually just skipping. But i think it's more correct to write this pass than skip it. -
Date: Fri, Aug 29 2008 10:02:30QUOTETipped Sonic moves along the hand in the same manner as all of the previous Sonic variations, but the conical spin is changed to a flat, sea-saw motion. ~ UPSB wiki
I think the finger-switching notation '-> T1-T2 ->' is more appropriate because there is no see-saw motion in between Charge T1 -> Charge T2. It's also appropriate to use the finger-switching notation in between the two charges, because it makes things more accurate. A reader who has not seen eso's combo, but has read the breakdown may think.. Now how did Charge T1, get to T2? Didbreak it down incorrectly?
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I think Fingerless Fingeraround is a better name than bak, even though bak is more recognised.
Here is one of my reasons:
Middlearound 23 -> Middlearound reverse 23
Thumbaround T2-T1 -> Thumbaround reverse T1-T2
This makes sense but...
If we use the name midbak, why do we use fingerless thumbaround reverse instead of thumbbak? Same goes for bak rev and fingerless thumbaround normal. -
Date: Fri, Aug 29 2008 10:47:44
Ok, maybe fingerswitching notation is better than inv tipped sonic, but i think NC should see to this moment. But i don't understand why should i use fl fingeraround notation instead of bak's notation. It's easyer for understanding, it makes less confusion for spinners (especially in situation like in Eso's combo with neo-baks) and i think it make breakdown process easyer. I don't see any advantages in fl fingeraround notation system. And if we start to use only this system, that means that we will never used baks in our breakdowns?
I can show a little difference between korean bak and fl ia rev if u want =) -
Date: Sat, Aug 30 2008 04:47:09
Bak or Korean Bak is the equivalent to fingerless fingeraround reverse. It is probably easier to understand, as it is more recognised by the community, but it doesn't make as much sense, for reasons stated in my previous post.
Personally, I prefer to use fingerless fingeraround reverse than bak for breakdowns, because bak normal doesn't follow the same direction as fingerless thumbaround normal
For right handers, if korean bak normal goes clockwise, then why is fingerless thumbaround normal going counter-clockwise/anti-clockwise?
Korean bak normal goes clockwise
Fingerless thumbaround reverse goes clockwise
Fingerless indexaround reverse goes clockwise
Fingerless thumbaround reverse goes clockwise
If we use fingerless fingeraround reverse, then it will make much more sense, everything will maintain the same naming and normal/reverse direction.
The only real disadvantages I see in using fingerless fingeraround reverse, is getting the community to recognise it, and having to type more.
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I'm sure thig's breakdown of Eso's combo is correct. If you perform a fingerless middle around reverse from 23-12, you will notice that there's only 0.5 spins as it lands with the different side of the pen. I'm not really sure on how to describe neobaks. -
Date: Sat, Aug 30 2008 05:31:48
So, u think we must deny from using any baks/neo-baks in our breakdowns?
If u said, that korean bak is equivalent to fl ia rev, so i think we must use easyest system. And baks system is a lot more easyer and popular in community. I don't think that for spinners is easyer to read breakdowns with a lot of baks that writed like fl fingerarounds. It makes tham confuse. I'm good in breakdowns and for me it's sometimes difficult to understand this system, so what about begginers? Baks system is more intuitive i think.
And here is the difference between FL IA rev and korean bak. This tricks is execute in different ways: bak in palm down position, but fl ia rev in palm vertical position. -
Date: Sun, Aug 31 2008 05:04:28
I refrained from using NeoBak in my breakdown because I presumed that NeoBak, a modified BackAround, has to maintain the defining factor of the BackAround, as the name NeoBak implies. A BackAround, by definition, must touch the back of the hand on or below the proximal phalanges. To maintain consistency with this definition, a NeoBak must also touch the back of the hand on or below the proximal phalanges. Why else would it be named 'NeoBak'? If the term 'Bak' in 'NeoBak' has no significance, it may as well be named 'NeoAround.'
In Eso's video, the pen did not touch the back of the hand on or below the proximal phalanges. Therefore, it cannot be a true NeoBak.QUOTE (walkingjacket)Bak or Korean Bak is the equivalent to fingerless fingeraround reverse.
Korean Bak, yes. BackAround, no.
I strongly note that Korean Bak should never be used in our breakdowns for obvious reasons.QUOTE (LMnet)So, u think we must deny from using any baks/neo-baks in our breakdowns?
No. We should use Neo/BackArounds only when they are actually performed. We cannot call a palm-down Fingerless FingerAround Rev a Backaround if the pen never touches the back of the hand on or below the proximal phalanges. When it does, however, then yes, you are more than welcome to notate them as Neo/BackArounds.
Fingerless FingerAround may be performed palm-up, palm-down, palm-sideways, and perhaps in even other hand positions. However, to this day, we have never noted the hand-position in breakdowns. (This may be a cause for reform in nomenclature though) -
Date: Sun, Aug 31 2008 05:13:31
Sorry, when I typed 'Bak or Korean Bak,' I meant just the one trick (fingerless fingeraround reverse), not Bak as backaround, since both names are commonly used to describe fingerless fingeraround reverse.
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Date: Mon, Sep 1 2008 16:08:42
ok, but i'm still think that breakdown isn't right. Here is my corrections of bak section:
FL ThumbAround Reverse T1-T1 -> Pass T1-12 -> FL IndexSpin Reverse 1.0 12-12 ~ Pass 12-23 -> FL MiddleAround Reverse 23-12 >~ Charge Reverse 0.5 12 -> Sonic Reverse 12-23 -
Date: Wed, Sep 3 2008 02:27:13
Pass T1-12 is very tricky. The definition of a Pass is the pen must be held by at least two fingers at all times. It is difficult to see whether the pen is ever held at T1 at the end of the FL TA Rev. Moreover, the Pass 0.5 rotation is not there, nor is it ever 'made up' through other tricks. For these two reasons, I didn't want to include the Pass T1-12 and instead used the T12 notation. But if you would like, please argue your case because I'm not quite sure if my reasoning is correct.
Also, the 'under-the-finger'-spin after the IS Rev cannot be a Pass, since the pen is not held firmly between at least two fingers at all times. The FL MA Rev is incomplete, since it is only 0.5 rotations, so it should also be notated with ~, not >~. -
Date: Wed, Sep 3 2008 14:35:17
Ok, u win
I will use FL FingerAround notation in my breakdowns, despite the fact that this is more difficult notation than bak notation.
About pass rev 12-T1, i was asking about this trick earlier. It is more correct to use it, but in almost all breakdown this trick is usually skipped. We just must make one decision about this trick. And i think we must use it, because our breakdowns must be as accurate as we can make it.
Here is my variant of Eso's combo breakdown after all this discussion. I show where i made mistakes. In other moments i'm sure.
Spoiler: -
Date: Sat, Sep 6 2008 02:20:16
The next step is to proofread Toast, Eriror, and Pholord's combos by September 12th.
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Date: Sun, Sep 7 2008 16:57:12
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
I don't understand why before and after almost all inverse sonics written charge? This charge is part of inverse sonic, don't need to write it separately.
Spoiler: -
Date: Sat, Sep 13 2008 03:26:26
Here are my corrections -
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
LMnet, a true Inverse Sonic begins and ends at the 2nd half of Charge-position. Since the 2nd half of Charge is an awkward position, many people use Charge 0.5 at the beginning and end to make the transition easier. -
Date: Sat, Sep 13 2008 04:41:03
Show me spinner, who use now true Tohlz's inverse sonic without charges (with 1.0 rotation). Now, this charges is part of inverse sonic and i think we don't need to breaking down tricks like inverse sonic. By your logic let's breaking down sonic (charge 23-13 ~ charge 13-12).
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Date: Sat, Sep 13 2008 05:33:18
I don't know what you refer to by Tohlz's Inverse Sonic.
This is a video of a true Inverse Sonic -
Note how it is only 1 rotation with no Charge rotation before nor after the trick. Also note that the starting and ending positions are those of 2nd-half of Charge.
The common way is to do a Charge 0.5 before and after an Inverse Sonic since the Inverse Sonic starting and ending positions are awkward, like this -
It may look like Charge 1.0 -> Inverse Sonic, but the real breakdown is Charge 0.5 ~> Inverse Sonic 1.0 >~ Charge 0.5 since the pen needs to get into the 2nd-half of Charge-position to start Inverse Sonic. Charge 1.0 would never end with the pen in the 2nd-half of Charge-position unless it starts in that position as well.
I never meant to imply that sonic = charge -> charge. -
Date: Tue, Sep 16 2008 13:32:21
Very intresting variant of true inverse sonic, i've never seen this before and i like it. For me, true inv sonic is Tohlz inverse sonic (without starting charge).
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Date: Tue, Sep 23 2008 20:39:03
You guys.. what happened?
If you're not going to be able to participate, you have to let me know in advance by PM.
You know who you are.
I've extended the date till the 26th. Either post the breakdowns till then or let me know why you can't/won't participate. -
Date: Tue, Sep 23 2008 23:01:35
I assumed we were finished with this one, I mean what else are we looking for?
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Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 04:19:13
Sorry, I forgot to post my contributions earlier.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
(EDIT)
Ah darn, I didn't about the the true inverse sonic. -
Date: Thu, Sep 25 2008 06:22:24QUOTE (sangara @ Sep 23 2008, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I assumed we were finished with this one, I mean what else are we looking for?
I was waiting for everyone else to contribute their proofreading for Pholord, Toast, and Eriror. We're still looking for any errors of our First Drafts.