UPSB v3
Serious Discussion / Mexicans in the US
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Date: Fri, Jul 11 2008 18:18:39
i really hate how in my old school the mexican population was 80% and in that school and every time a mexican kid would come as a new person he/she would be taken in as a friend right away other (ex asians white) had a harder time getting friends (ex me) which is pretty discriminitory but they are kids and kids are always like that and also it is scientificly proven that every human race would prefer hanging out wwith someone there own race
PS think you should take down that dora sign many people on UPSB or from different countries and dont have good english... -
Date: Fri, Jul 11 2008 20:25:35
Let them come in dammit.
Sure control it, but in such a way so that we don't have to get here illegally.
We freaking came here to work; give us jobs dammit. -
Date: Fri, Jul 11 2008 20:41:33
They should have an IQ ad Fitness Test. America is already stupid and fat. nuff said.
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Date: Fri, Jul 11 2008 22:04:16QUOTE (m3x_spinner @ Jul 11 2008, 09:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Let them come in dammit.
Sure control it, but in such a way so that we don't have to get here illegally.
We freaking came here to work; give us jobs dammit.
Heh if the USA let in every Mexican that wanted to work there, there would be no unskilled labour jobs left for any Americans to have, this would be followed by an unemployment crises and would result in massive damage to the economy, enough to make the current economic crises look like a mole-hill.QUOTEThey should have an IQ ad Fitness Test.
I really think and IQ and fitness test would be some of the most useless tests you could put someone through if you were looking at who might be useful or not coming into the country. A general health test and a look at your skills would probably serve the purpose a lot better. -
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 02:15:39
...i dont mind
if they dont come here, we outsource the jobs anyway -
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 04:02:10QUOTE (m3x_spinner @ Jul 11 2008, 01:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Let them come in dammit.
Sure control it, but in such a way so that we don't have to get here illegally.
We freaking came here to work; give us jobs dammit.
Why don't you stay in your country and make it a better place to live?
And I don't hate Mexicans. -
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 04:13:46QUOTE (m3x_spinner @ Jul 11 2008, 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>HA.
The economy is bad already.
I didn't mean every Mexican BTW.
Shit half of them are already here anyways.
That's like saying to a person with a broken arm "Well since you already have it bad, you wouldn't mind if I make it worse by breaking another one right?" -
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 04:36:00
Seeing them pass me by doesn't bother me at all but when I hear them start speaking spanish it really starts to piss me off. If you come into our country you speak our language and if you don't know it, you better learn.
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Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 04:44:24
the only time i mind other languages and accents is when a store or something is run by people who just cant speak english at all, to a point where you can't understand them. It's rediculous
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Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 05:02:34QUOTE (11Thrasher11 @ Jul 11 2008, 09:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Seeing them pass me by doesn't bother me at all but when I hear them start speaking spanish it really starts to piss me off. If you come into our country you speak our language and if you don't know it, you better learn.
You shouldn't be so quick to judge people. Just because they're speaking Spanish doesn't mean they don't know how to speak English, it could mean that Spanish is the language they are most comfortable with.
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Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 05:07:14QUOTE (Cybrax @ Jul 11 2008, 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>They should have an IQ ad Fitness Test. America is already stupid and fat. nuff said.
To be honest, I think many Americans would be kicked out... -
Date: Mon, Jul 14 2008 20:57:07
The thing about illegal immigrants, including those of Mexican descent, is that some of them have the indecency to drive around with no insurance and have no regard for the other drivers. That's the thing. They can afford to get into a wreck because it's not like they have any kind of assets under their name since they're illegal immigrants to begin with. It causes problems for those that actually have insurance. This kind of behavior can also manifest into other things but I can't think of them at the moment.
As for the whole jobs issue, the only jobs I've personally seen illegal immigrants take are the lower end jobs. I have never seen an illegal immigrant work in a software corporation or as a bank teller. You just don't see that. However, their children that are born in the States have that opportunity.
Many object to the children of illegal immigrants having full access to the free schooling and whatnot, but I don't think that's a problem. I do think it's unfair that some of the children have to live under financial stress.
For those of you that get irritated with them speaking Spanish, I only agree with you if they fail to speak basic English in regular situations, such as going to the store or ordering food. Luckily, I know enough Spanish to assist some whenever one comes to the restaurant I work at, so I'm not as irritated or fazed by it.
I heard this one thing that the president of Mexico does not want the native Central Americans that are originally from Mexico to stay there. He only wants the ones of Spanish descent to stay. That could explain why you mostly see Mexicans of Aztec and Mayan descent. -
Date: Mon, Jul 14 2008 21:15:54QUOTE (Eso @ Jul 14 2008, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The thing about illegal immigrants, including those of Mexican descent, is that some of them have the indecency to drive around with no insurance and have no regard for the other drivers. That's the thing. They can afford to get into a wreck because it's not like they have any kind of assets under their name since they're illegal immigrants to begin with. It causes problems for those that actually have insurance. This kind of behavior can also manifest into other things but I can't think of them at the moment.
As for the whole jobs issue, the only jobs I've personally seen illegal immigrants take are the lower end jobs. I have never seen an illegal immigrant work in a software corporation or as a bank teller. You just don't see that. However, their children that are born in the States have that opportunity.
Many object to the children of illegal immigrants having full access to the free schooling and whatnot, but I don't think that's a problem. I do think it's unfair that some of the children have to live under financial stress.
For those of you that get irritated with them speaking Spanish, I only agree with you if they fail to speak basic English in regular situations, such as going to the store or ordering food. Luckily, I know enough Spanish to assist some whenever one comes to the restaurant I work at, so I'm not as irritated or fazed by it.
I heard this one thing that the president of Mexico does not want the native Central Americans that are originally from Mexico to stay there. He only wants the ones of Spanish descent to stay. That could explain why you mostly see Mexicans of Aztec and Mayan descent.
Ok first of all, why would we go driving around and not care if we crash? If we are illegal we are going to avoid stuff like that because we are most likely driving around without a license. So, I know we don't have anything under our name but we definitley don't want deportation.
As for the jobs thing, you're completly right.
Although I do know someone that does taxes, and that's the highest I've ever seen someone go. That's illegal of course.
Still even, it's hard to freaking get a job. -
Date: Mon, Jul 14 2008 21:33:41QUOTE (m3x_spinner @ Jul 14 2008, 05:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ok first of all, why would we go driving around and not care if we crash? If we are illegal we are going to avoid stuff like that because we are most likely driving around without a license. So, I know we don't have anything under our name but we definitley don't want deportation.
If you read again, you will see that I said "some." How would I know why they do the things they do? I just know it happens. I don't know if you drive, but I do and I've seen it happen to people I know, including my friends.
Spoiler:
Now, to touch upon the subject of just Mexicans in the US, illegal or not. I have nothing against them whatsoever. They are people just like anybody else. There are nice people and there are assholes. It's unfortunate that a lot of the people in the US are too caught up in the whole illegal immigrant issue as well as the negative stereotypes to see any ethnicity with clear eyes. -
Date: Mon, Jul 14 2008 22:25:19QUOTE (11Thrasher11 @ Jul 12 2008, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Seeing them pass me by doesn't bother me at all but when I hear them start speaking spanish it really starts to piss me off. If you come into our country you speak our language and if you don't know it, you better learn.
It's unfair to single out Spanish. You would have to apply that to all minority groups who speak a language other than English. I don't see why it should piss you off though unless you feel the need to know what everyone is saying.
How can you tell if a Mexican is an illegal immigrant just by looking at them? Also, Mexicans may be the source of most illegal immigrants, but there are definitely other countries. -
Date: Mon, Jul 14 2008 22:43:06QUOTE (Tialys @ Jul 14 2008, 03:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>How can you tell if a Mexican is an illegal immigrant just by looking at them? Also, Mexicans may be the source of most illegal immigrants, but there are definitely other countries.
You know I can't even tell either.
But the only way I can tell is if I listen to their Spanish.
Oh and @ Eso, you're right I shouldn't get too defensive. Sorry.
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Date: Mon, Jul 14 2008 22:52:54
I think Thrasher is just focusing on Spanish, rather than singling it out, since this thread is titled "Mexicans in the US" after all. Though I do wonder what does Thrasher think about Asians that only speak their own language most of the time.
You can't tell just by looking at them. Or can you? You would think that since they are illegal, that usually means they don't have the money or means to do it legally. That would logically lead them to seek jobs that do not have any prerequisites and an employer willing to risk giving out jobs to someone who doesn't have the legal right to work in the US. And through time, these particular jobs have found their way into the common stereotypes about Hispanics today.
...But just because they're stereotypes does not mean you can automatically look at someone in a certain job sector and say "yep he's an illegal Hispanic person." -
Date: Tue, Jul 15 2008 00:03:03
iKore: Your just not looking around hard enough man! I was in Santa Ana(95%+ mexicans) from Preschool til graduating HS. Dude, I've always had mexican friends, I never talked to the asian kids in my school(with the exception of a few), its just a matter of interests, just hung out with people with the same interests as me, then met their friends, and so forth. Join a club or something. Great way to meet new people.
And tell you the truth, I preferr having mexicans around me, they dont seem as materialistic as others and they actually say "Hi" to ya.QUOTE (m3x_spinner @ Jul 14 2008, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ok first of all, why would we go driving around and not care if we crash? If we are illegal we are going to avoid stuff like that because we are most likely driving around without a license. So, I know we don't have anything under our name but we definitely don't want deportation.
As for the jobs thing, you're completely right.
Although I do know someone that does taxes, and that's the highest I've ever seen someone go. That's illegal of course.
Still even, it's hard to freaking get a job. -
Date: Tue, Jul 15 2008 00:44:45
I think some of the intolerance comes from the fact that Mexicans appear to be "everywhere." But if you think ethnic uniformity in the US is bad, you should see Canada. Besides Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver, easily 90% of cities/towns will feel like they're either 95+% White or 95+% (East) Asian. I've had to live with the former situation most of my life. In terms of multiculturalism, the US has often been described as a "melting pot" whereas in Canada it's mostly segregated races. Yes, this is caused by the fact that most people prefer their own race, but in the US at least this preference doesn't cause people to form their own "racial factions" to the same extent (ignoring Southern states). If your area mostly comprises a different race than your own, you have to either learn to tolerate it or move, because you're not going to force masses of people out. You also can't assert that most Mexicans in your region are illegal immigrants without any proof. Finally, you can't deny that illegal Mexicans perform jobs nobody else will do for low wages and under no protection. Would you have them leave and see your economy plummet further?
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Date: Tue, Jul 15 2008 00:46:10QUOTE (AwonW @ Jul 12 2008, 12:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>You shouldn't be so quick to judge people. Just because they're speaking Spanish doesn't mean they don't know how to speak English, it could mean that Spanish is the language they are most comfortable with.
I don't care at all what language they are comfortable with speak english. -
Date: Tue, Jul 15 2008 00:56:55QUOTE (11Thrasher11 @ Jul 14 2008, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I don't care at all what language they are comfortable with speak english.
Why should they learn English other than the reason "because we are in America" or because "it's the language"?
You can't force them to. -
Date: Tue, Jul 15 2008 00:57:07
When you go into a Spanish-speaking country, you are expected to speak Spanish. In the US, it should be the same, except you speak English. Plain and simple.
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Date: Tue, Jul 15 2008 00:59:09QUOTE (ikore @ Jul 11 2008, 11:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>it is scientificly proven that every human race would prefer hanging out wwith someone there own race
I FUCKING HATE HANGING OUT WITH PEOPLE FROM WHERE MY PARENTS GREW UP.
but then again....i am a micture of different p[alces farther away from there
but most people take me for where my parents grew up
gawd i fucking hate people from there. -
Date: Tue, Jul 15 2008 01:02:06QUOTE (11Thrasher11 @ Jul 14 2008, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I don't care at all what language they are comfortable with speak english.
So you don't think that anyone should ever speak another language other than English is the US? -
Date: Tue, Jul 15 2008 01:21:16QUOTE (m3x_spinner @ Jul 14 2008, 07:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Why should they learn English other than the reason "because we are in America" or because "it's the language"?
You can't force them to.
You learn the language you are living in. No I can't force themQUOTE (AwonW @ Jul 14 2008, 08:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>So you don't think that anyone should ever speak another language other than English is the US?
Take it to the extreme why don't you. A good idea is to make instructions, labels, titles, all of that should only be said in english. Make them learn it. -
Date: Tue, Jul 15 2008 01:24:48
@ Nate go to people in Chinatown and tell them that.
I know not all of them speak English.QUOTE (11Thrasher11 @ Jul 14 2008, 06:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>You learn the language you are living in. No I can't force them
Take it to the extreme why don't you. A good idea is to make instructions, labels, titles, all of that should only be said in english. Make them learn it.
You can't force them but you want to make them anyway? -
Date: Tue, Jul 15 2008 01:31:20
The funny thing is, they DO speak English in Chinatown. And almost all of them came here legally.
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Date: Tue, Jul 15 2008 01:42:36QUOTE (m3x_spinner @ Jul 14 2008, 08:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>@ Nate go to people in Chinatown and tell them that.
I know not all of them speak English.
You can't force them but you want to make them anyway?
Go research the Tower of Babel. You have one and one dominant language in a country. When moving to another country you better learn the language or don't move at all. -
Date: Tue, Jul 15 2008 05:10:53
I can understand where Thrasher is coming from and a lot of you seem to be misunderstanding it or just twisting it up. Try taking the ethnocentric point of view out and try putting yourself into another's shoe. When you, a native English speaker, visit or move to a country where English is not taught and the country has an actual listed "official language", are you actually going to demand that all public services, billboards, signs, and all other media be translated and handed to you on a silver plate in English? I certainly wouldn't do that. It's too pretentious for me to even think about that.
Right now, since the US doesn't have an official language, regions where there are "significant numbers" of Hispanics are seemingly pressured to put up bilingual signs, pamphlets, and even signs that say "Se habla español". Sure this is a great sign of acceptance of the growing Hispanic population economically, but let's put it this way: the ratio of native English speakers to native Spanish speakers is extremely skewed. I take this as a sign of us catering to the Spanish speaking population. Isn't this good enough? Certainly, you cannot expect the majority of English speakers to become fluent in Spanish, or any other language for that matter, now.
English may not be the "official language" of USA, but it is without a shadow of a doubt, the common "working language".
I don't hold it against those that cannot have the opportunity to learn English. I just hold a thing against those that think we should automatically cater to any language besides English. My parents are from another country, and they had the respect to those around them to learn just enough English to communicate. Who taught them? Me and my sister. -
Date: Tue, Jul 15 2008 13:56:12
Aren't English and Spanish the two official languages of the US? If so, then most government services should be bilingual, with some exceptions like schools. Everything else has the choice of accommodating Spanish but is certainly under no obligation. Mexicans will eventually learn some English because their quality of life in the US is compromised until they do so. Also, I think both sides should make an attempt at understanding each other by learning some of the other language.
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Date: Tue, Jul 15 2008 15:17:14QUOTE (Tialys @ Jul 15 2008, 09:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Aren't English and Spanish the two official languages of the US? If so, then most government services should be bilingual, with some exceptions like schools.
US has no official languages. I think it's so they could retain neutrality on race issues. Once the government has decided the official language(s), then things will of course change. Until then, I do not see an obligation to change. -
Date: Thu, Jul 17 2008 03:06:27QUOTE (Tialys @ Jul 15 2008, 08:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Aren't English and Spanish the two official languages of the US? If so, then most government services should be bilingual, with some exceptions like schools. Everything else has the choice of accommodating Spanish but is certainly under no obligation. Mexicans will eventually learn some English because their quality of life in the US is compromised until they do so. Also, I think both sides should make an attempt at understanding each other by learning some of the other language.
I say when your Constitution is written in English, that's pretty much the main language. And no don't make an attempt to learn their language they came here they learn ours. -
Date: Thu, Jul 17 2008 16:10:47
It seems English is the de facto language in the US but not enforced by law. Until it becomes official, it is only recommended that Mexicans speak it but they are not necessarily obliged to. About meeting them halfway by learning some Spanish, I only mean this if you live in an area where you would likely encounter Mexicans regularly and if English and Spanish both become official languages of the US, like English and French are in Canada.
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Date: Thu, Jul 17 2008 16:25:00
basically the US is the opposite of Switzerland: instead of making ALL local languages official, they're making NONE official.
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Date: Thu, Jul 17 2008 16:39:00
They can't have English as an official language anyway, since they don't speak it. Then need Anglish as their official language.
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Date: Thu, Jul 17 2008 17:39:42
Perhaps they speak Spanish to preserve their heritage. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. And that doesn't mean that they can't speak English. I think people should be able to speak the language of their parents, be it Italian, Polish, etc. But that's just me. I get pissed off sometimes that my cousins, who are US-born or child-immigrants, can't speak our language. But sometimes, it's the fault of the parents also. Being bilingual or multilingual helps a lot too - in school, etc.
But then again, probably majority of the Mexican illegal immigrants can't speak English, like in "Fast Food Nation". In that case, if you plan on living in another country that has another lingua franca, you should at least learn to speak the lingua franca when you're already there. People from that other country would appreciate it if a foreigner speaks their language, that I am sure of (e.g. in Japan). Again I get pissed off at US-born Filipinos who come to the homeland to start an acting career or something, and then they can't even pronounce the words right. By the way, we are sort of like Mexico too, we were colonized by Spain, so we have Spanish names and Spanish words. Some of us probably look Mexican too. When I visited the States, and I was in a mall, there was this Mexican man (who looked suspicious), and he winked at me like he just did something bad haha. Probably thought I was Mexican lol.