UPSB v3

Serious Discussion / The World might end?

  1. Sora Limit
    Date: Tue, Aug 5 2008 22:43:28

    Taken from Gametrailers:

    QUOTE (shhhoff;12401396)
    IT HAS BEEN POSTPONED TILL EARLY AUGUST.

    OFFICIAL COUNTDOWN:     http://www.lhcountdown.com/



    "The LHC is a particle accelerator located on the France/Switzerland border; it has been dubbed the largest, most expensive, most powerful experiment ever attempted, certainly dwarfing all particle colliders ever built before, both in terms of size and power.


    Some experts fear that the risk of operating the LHC disproportionately outweighs anything science might gain from this experiment. It is not possible to know what the outcome of the experiment will be, but even CERN (the European Organization for Nuclear Research) scientists concede that there is a real possibility of creating destructive theoretical anomalies such as miniature black holes, strangelets and deSitter space transitions. These events have the potential to fundamentally alter matter and destroy our planet"


    What could happen overnight: http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=BXzugu39pKM


    Latest news: http://lhc.web.cern.ch/lhc/News.htm



    Some useful sources:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider
    http://www.lhcdefense.org/
    http://www.nowpublic.com/technology/potent...der-experiments
    http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/LHC/LHC-en.html
    http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=MjHals9hDz0






    In short, we might be screwed this month... Thoughts?

  2. IAmTheMrGuy
    Date: Tue, Aug 5 2008 22:45:48

    we've already created mini black holes before, with other particle accelerators. I would not be overly worried about this

  3. Mats
    Date: Tue, Aug 5 2008 22:48:19

    They are doing experiments on single atoms. Even if they turn everything in the experiment to pure energy it's going to be hardly anything.

  4. Lelouch
    Date: Tue, Aug 5 2008 23:15:19

    Nothing bad will happen... sleep.gif

  5. Tialys
    Date: Wed, Aug 6 2008 01:07:32

    The possibility is probably too slim to worry about.

  6. nateiskewl
    Date: Wed, Aug 6 2008 01:13:23

    I wouldn't be worried. I'm more worried about being stuck by that mega earthquake that they say is under Yosemite. That's even more scary shit.

  7. xxdefinitionxx
    Date: Wed, Aug 6 2008 05:32:32

    Well i wouldn't mind maybe it's the lack of food...but I still don't understand what this is for? And oops..I have no idea what the purpose of a particle accelerator is...

    Maybe I'll ask my dad when we're in the car and I'm feeling awkward.

  8. TheOnion
    Date: Thu, Aug 7 2008 16:09:29

    QUOTE (Mats @ Aug 6 2008, 12:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    They are doing experiments on single atoms. Even if they turn everything in the experiment to pure energy it's going to be hardly anything.


    Even though they are just accelerating up a few hundred trillion protons at the time they could still potentially do a lot of damage if one should be hit by them, because they are traveling near the speed of light. That is also why they have build it out there in the mountains, so they got a place to shoot the stuff when they are done using it.

    But in terms of being a danger to continued existence of the Earth, you are right, the powers they work with there is far to small.

  9. kspin
    Date: Thu, Aug 7 2008 16:34:19

    I wouldnt lose too much sleep over this but did u guys no that the Myan calender...the world ends in 2012 .....but atleast we hav time lol

    http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2007-...maya-2012_n.htm

  10. TRoc
    Date: Thu, Aug 7 2008 16:40:43

    jawdrop.gif


    O shit. I'm in switzerland now and am moving to the France-Swiss border tomorrow.

    FUCKFUCKFUCK.

  11. Mats
    Date: Fri, Aug 8 2008 06:19:57

    QUOTE (xxdefinitionxx @ Aug 6 2008, 06:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    I have no idea what the purpose of a particle accelerator is...


    It speeds things up REALLY FAST so you can smash stuff together with LOTS of energy!

  12. Lordbojo
    Date: Wed, Aug 13 2008 02:53:36

    It's not like they're throwing random shit in there. I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing, otherwise they wouldn't be risking THE EXISTENCE OF HUMANITY.

  13. Gunblakes
    Date: Thu, Aug 14 2008 11:29:25

    QUOTE (Lordbojo @ Aug 13 2008, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    It's not like they're throwing random shit in there. I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing, otherwise they wouldn't be risking THE EXISTENCE OF HUMANITY.


    How about the atom bomb?

  14. Salvis
    Date: Thu, Aug 14 2008 12:15:23

    Nop, we will keep livin' or lifes.

  15. Ralys
    Date: Thu, Aug 14 2008 12:21:24

    Myan calendar ends on 2012 because they wasn't fast enough to create it for more years, don't be silly dry.gif. Now sit and make a calendar until the year 5069 with your own hand. It's bullshit dry.gif.

  16. xxdefinitionxx
    Date: Tue, Aug 26 2008 05:52:09

    If it does make a black hole (:DDD) it wont hurt when we all die, will it?

  17. AwonW
    Date: Tue, Aug 26 2008 06:08:14

    I think they've already used it. No problems.

  18. Xero
    Date: Tue, Aug 26 2008 06:13:09

    QUOTE (Lordbojo @ Aug 12 2008, 10:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    It's not like they're throwing random shit in there. I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing, otherwise they wouldn't be risking THE EXISTENCE OF HUMANITY.

    Touche.

  19. TheOnion
    Date: Tue, Aug 26 2008 09:14:48

    QUOTE (Gunblakes @ Aug 14 2008, 01:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    How about the atom bomb?


    This is just 100% different from the creation of the nuclear bomb, that was a military project, LHC is a scientific project. and besides I am pretty sure that those who designed the atom bomb knew people was gonna die, if they used it.




    QUOTE (AwonW @ Aug 26 2008, 08:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    I think they've already used it. No problems.


    Nope it hasn't it. It has been delayed a bit again, they will start running it later this fall.


    QUOTE (xxdefinitionxx @ Aug 26 2008, 07:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    If it does make a black hole (:DDD) it wont hurt when we all die, will it?


    Because of the extreme time dilation the gravitation of a black hole will cause, it might happen that the sun will die before you will reach the center of the black hole making you fry in a red giant. Or maybe not. Just speculation.

    In any case it is not gonna happen. We do all the time have collisions much more powerful than those than those there is gonna be in LHC out in our atmosphere when small particals come from outer space come ramming in to it. If it was possible to make a microblackhole with atom collisions it should have happend out there. Which it might very well have done, but since it is hard to get those big measuring instruments out there, we don't know. But if they have been created out there, then the reason why the earth still is, is probably because of a hawkins radiation which predicts that black holes will emit radiation, which then quickly will make the micro blackhole disappear again after its creation.

  20. riverboy
    Date: Tue, Aug 26 2008 11:30:43

    Uhm basically, it deosn;t make me scared. huh(1).gif

  21. ryzaku
    Date: Tue, Aug 26 2008 21:07:53

    ...yeah this is nothing to worry about...

  22. kazeikan
    Date: Tue, Aug 26 2008 23:03:00

    i think were safe because they had years and years of research so during that time when they built it they would have safety precautions and stuff because they know what they're doing.

  23. pen_MAKer
    Date: Thu, Sep 4 2008 01:39:16

    awesome, i know...i'm excited bout it ^^

  24. minche
    Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 13:24:01

    QUOTE (minche @ Sep 10 2008, 02:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    That "black holes" story is just media hype
    I can't believe they only show that on the news, and they didn't mention what they are really trying to do (i know it is really hard to explain, but they shouldn't go just saying "hey they are creating black-holes in LHC" -.- )

    The point is: we have mass and energy in this world. We still can't turn energy in mass (and vice versa). With that collider they are accelerating protons to 99.99% speed of light (and remember protons have mass, it is really really small, but it is a mass, while photons don't have mass so they can travel with the speed of light). Nothing that has mass (any mass) can travel with the speed of light (see Lorentz's transformation formulas/equations and Einstein's demon)
    When they accelerate those protons to the speed of light they have a power of 7 TeV ( = 14 TeV when they collide), and what they are hoping to "see" are Higg's bosons. Higg's boson are, if you wanna call it like that - the missing link between energy and mass (read more on the wiki if you are interested)
    And so, the particle (proton) can't go at the speed of light (meaning it can't go any faster) so it has to get some mass (because energy is increasing)
    And and so, they are trying to "create big bang" (not really, but just to know what could've happened then). And then some clever scientists thought that with that HUGE concentration of energy (14 TeV on such small space) COULD lead to creating micro black holes (really really micro that will disappear in milisecond) and strangelets (but they only said that because NOBODY REALLY knows how black holes are created)


    links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_hadron_collider
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_particle
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQNpucos9wc
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j50ZssEojtM...ature=rec-fresh


    huh, if you find some mistake correct me please :> (really)

  25. Ralys
    Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 16:25:42

    QUOTE (Ralys @ Sep 10 2008, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Now I will be a bit nerdy, and try to explain (if you understand, my english is already bad, so explaining such stuff is even harder)

    As you already know, LHC is made to face two particles with almost speed of light. Like on the streets you can see smashing cars, so the difference is that LHC will smash really small particles. Their mass will be pretty big (in comparison to electron). Hadron in Latin means ''Heavy''. So, those fast and heavy particles with huge amount of energy, they will give their energy and stop. But where should that energy disappear? As E=mc^2 says it should become to mass. But c^2 shows that you need A LOT of energy to get at least just a little amount of mass. Two particles will smash, their energy will create mass, from which new particles will be made. What kind of particles it will be - that's what scientists want to know.
    Scientists build LHC for 13 years. It's pretty short for speed close to speed of light - particles can beat those 27kilometres 10 000 times in one second. No one has ever made such powerful machine, so someone had to make a conspiracy theory that it will destroy earth with black hole or while creating a new universe. However, as minche said, no one knows how to create black holes, and no one even knows what the fuck it is. + A black hole is a Heavy mass in a small Space e.g. sometimes black hole diameter is like 1kilometer, and it's mass is Inconceivable. So those few particles can't create mass of a black hole. + Black hole is a huge amount of mass in really small space. Black hole diameter is mostly abot 1 kilometer, and mass is inconceivable, so those few particles couldn't make such mass. Yes, it can create a new particle, but never a blackhole, even of a size of 1 centimeter.

    Now, universe theory. Such energy CAN'T create such big explosion to create a new universe. In fact, 5TeV is not even enough energy to feel your ass hurt if you would get shocked with such huge energy. 5 TeV = 5 thousand billions of eV. When even 220 Volts shocks pretty good, and there is billions of them, and not regular volts - it's electro volts! rotfl.gif. Well, actually, Volt and electroVolt is two different sizes. Let's see:
    5 TeV = 10^12 eV = 5 000 000 000 000 eV
    1 eV = 1,6 10^-19 = 0, 000 000 000 000 000 000 16 J (J=Joule)
    5 TeV = 0, 000 000 8 J

    so 0.000 000 8 Joules equals 5TeV. Is that much? Like 9 millimetre bullet has an energy of 500 J. So regular weapon's bullet has more than half billion times more energy than Those mega powerful particles. You would need AT LEAST 0.1 J to atleast feel a tickle on your ass.

    Another proof, which shows how far LHC is from destroying earth:
    LHC particles - 0.000 000 8J
    1 Kilo of trotyl - 4 000 000 J
    Nuclear bomb on Hirosima - 15 kilotons = 60 TJ = 60 000 000 000 000 J
    Nuclear bomb Castle Bravo tested in 1954 - 15 megatons - 60 000 000 000 000 000 J

    So, can those particles destroy entire universe, or atleast earth, or atleast make your ass hurt?

    Besides, i don't believe that such a cute thing could do anything bad to us biggrin.gif


    Thanks for your time reading this crap and sorry for bad english

  26. isatnaf
    Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 20:52:45

    Even if they create balck hole it aint gonna expand so there is no worries

  27. nateiskewl
    Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 21:51:10

    I heard this went nicely, good job, CERN.

  28. Xero
    Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 22:37:51

    QUOTE (isatnaf @ Sep 10 2008, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Even if they create balck hole it aint gonna expand so there is no worries

    The theorize that Earth's Gravity could draw the black hole to the center of the earth.
    Thusly imploding the planet. smile.gif

  29. nada
    Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 22:40:00

    I thought if it made a black hole, it'd be too small to suck anything in.

  30. nateiskewl
    Date: Wed, Sep 10 2008 22:45:05

    QUOTE (Xero @ Sep 10 2008, 03:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    The theorize that Earth's Gravity could draw the black hole to the center of the earth.
    Thusly imploding the planet. smile.gif


    Doesn't matter (heh), any black hole on Earth would be too unstable to sustain existence for even a second.

  31. Tim
    Date: Thu, Sep 11 2008 15:04:14

    Did you guys know that this thing could destroy earth?

  32. minche
    Date: Thu, Sep 11 2008 18:01:42

    QUOTE (Xero @ Sep 11 2008, 12:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    The theorize that Earth's Gravity could draw the black hole to the center of the earth.
    Thusly imploding the planet. smile.gif


    if earth's gravity was that strong we would all be drawn to the center of the earth -.-
    and if that black hole would somehow be created it would be so small and it would be in controlled area (meaning, almost nothing to suck in) so it will just be destroyed

  33. Eso
    Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 06:46:59

    I just want to say that we CAN convert mass to energy. Not sure about energy to mass though. Atomic bombs take the fissioning of the involved elements and breaks the binding forces, which releases energy. Thus, the mass is converted into energy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass%E2%80%93...ctical_examples



    As for the micro black holes, the only threat would be if Hawking radiation was nonexistent. If that were the case, then it wouldn't disappear in a fraction of a millisecond.

    I also wanted to add that while no one knows how black holes can be formed, then you cannot disprove that black holes can form after smashing two particles traveling at near the speed of light. I just think that special relativity should take into account here. If they are trying to somewhat recreate the Big Bang, then you should know that it's generally believed that just before the Big Bang, there was a singularity where the laws of physics had no meaning and as soon as it expanded, black holes were thought to be extremely common. This is probably why the doomsday rumor got spread in the first place.

    All I'm saying is that I'm not picking any sides until I see the results for myself. tongue.gif

  34. TheOnion
    Date: Wed, Sep 17 2008 22:50:16

    QUOTE (Eso @ Sep 17 2008, 08:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    I just want to say that we CAN convert mass to energy. Not sure about energy to mass though.


    Oh it is possible to create massive particles with energy, then you just create a particle anti-particle pair. And actually if einstein's famous e=mc^2 does not fail anything should get more massive as you put more energy into it, so when you recharge your cell phone or laptop, you are also kinda creating mass from energy.

    And about blackholes, astronomers actually do think they know how black holes are created out in space. It is done in the last stages of great big dying stars which gravitationally collapses on it self. And it is predicted in the standard model that micro black holes should be created at really high collisions and when the standard model says that it is so, I do tend to believe it.

  35. minche
    Date: Thu, Sep 18 2008 14:51:44

    QUOTE (TheOnion @ Sep 18 2008, 12:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Oh it is possible to create massive particles with energy, then you just create a particle anti-particle pair. And actually if einstein's famous e=mc^2 does not fail anything should get more massive as you put more energy into it, so when you recharge your cell phone or laptop, you are also kinda creating mass from energy.

    And about blackholes, astronomers actually do think they know how black holes are created out in space. It is done in the last stages of great big dying stars which gravitationally collapses on it self. And it is predicted in the standard model that micro black holes should be created at really high collisions and when the standard model says that it is so, I do tend to believe it.


    that is called relativistic mass. it doesn't work in "normal physics" (because we don't move at the speed of light so we can always convert energy increase in speed instead of mass)

    and that's the main theory. after supernovas (big star explosions) gravity force is so strong that all protons and electrons and neutrons are attracted at great speeds, and when proton hits electron they are one neutron then. i read somewhere that dot (size 7 dot i think tongue.gif) would weigh 10 000 tons if it was made only of neutrons. and when they start colliding mass in the center of the sphere is so big that it still keeps attracting everything in and it keeps getting smaller and smaller (sphere, the mass is constantly increasing).

  36. Tialys
    Date: Fri, Sep 19 2008 20:25:56

    Well, let's see.

    m = m0 / √(1 - v2/c2)

    Where m is the relativistic mass, m0 is the mass of the body when it is at rest, v is the speed of the moving body, and c is the speed of light.

    According to Wikipedia, an accelerated proton in the LHC will move at about 99.999999% the speed of light: v = 0.99999999 c
    Rest mass of a proton is 1.6726 x 10-27 kg.

    m = (1.6726 x 10-27) / √[1 - (0.99999999 c)2/c2]
    m = 1.1827 x 10-23 kg

    So yes, the energy used to accelerate the protons results in an increase in the protons' mass, but it's not really correct to say that the energy was converted to mass since the energy is still present in the form of kinetic energy.

  37. Dark Angel-REX
    Date: Wed, Sep 24 2008 13:59:19

    ridiculous. World wouldn't end with that Particle Accelerator. THink about it. We would need uber gigantic one that circles around the whole earth powered by Billions of nuclear power plant to make a black hole that could suck a person up.


    Nothing to worry about. Either way, i'm going to fail my life, so it doesn't matter.

  38. Lyskan
    Date: Wed, Oct 1 2008 04:37:04

    Sunday, December 23rd, 2012. Zombie Apocalypse. End of story.